Morrissey rarities mix

[murder and desire]

Re: Say something

Just because I say he is known for his blaggin, it does not mean he is ALWAYS blaggin. The only reason I mention his double dealing skills is because you sir brought Morrissey in to aid your augment.
The reason I "know" VandI, is one of his all time faves Lps is because I know how to read between the lines (you should try) and the obvious fact that he still glows about this LP some 13 or so years later. The mere fact he said "I remain steadfastly proud of "Years of refusal", which along with "You are the quarry" and "Ringleader of the tormentors" are my life's peaks. These three will allow me to die in peace. I am no longer in the thrall of anything that preceded them; the past is not me." tend s to give warnings signals anyway.
In an artistic sense in my mind there is no way that Quarry is better than either Viva Hate, V and I or Maladjusted. The production may be better but that is all.
Years of Refusal is a great LP., it suffered from having too many songs that were already out in the world. ROTT is great. Lps are only part of the story though and I think this is what one of the other posters were grasping at.

I was not contradicting myself in the least, I wish I were I would faint with joy. I was merely giving my opinion not laying it out as an unmovable fact as you were. That said my opinion is based on actual knowledge and experience of an artist and not the silly chat of a bunch of middle class NME readers and writers who never really got The Smiths and Moz in the first place. I am also not taking a johnny come lately or fashion lead approach.

You must see there is difference.
If you can't see this its maybe because I have explained myself in a poor manner and for that I am sorry (it is late though)

 

[mcrickson]

Re: Say something

Just because I say he is known for his blaggin, it does not mean he is ALWAYS blaggin.

Oh, I see - he's only blaggin when it's convenient to your argument.

The only reason I mention his double dealing skills is because you sir brought Morrissey in to aid your augment.
The reason I "know" VandI, is one of his all time faves Lps is because I know how to read between the lines (you should try)

Because that's descriptive.

and the obvious fact that he still glows about this LP some 13 or so years later.

Where in recent times has he even MENTIONED the album? The quote from 2009 seems pretty definitive of how he's feeling, and the fact that he did NOT just include ONLY the latest album in his praises but the last three indicates that this is not a case of him just bigging-up the most recent album.

The mere fact he said "I remain steadfastly proud of "Years of refusal", which along with "You are the quarry" and "Ringleader of the tormentors" are my life's peaks. These three will allow me to die in peace. I am no longer in the thrall of anything that preceded them; the past is not me." tend s to give warnings signals anyway.

That's your argument? That it "tends to give warning signals anyway"?

In an artistic sense in my mind there is no way that Quarry is better than either Viva Hate, V and I or Maladjusted. The production may be better but that is all.
Years of Refusal is a great LP., it suffered from having too many songs that were already out in the world. ROTT is great. Lps are only part of the story though and I think this is what one of the other posters were grasping at.

This is all just your opinion, which you said in your previous post is absolutely useless to argue about because it is based on taste - and that is pretty much the only thing I gauge that I agree with you on.

I was not contradicting myself in the least, I wish I were I would faint with joy. I was merely giving my opinion not laying it out as an unmovable fact as you were. That said my opinion is based on actual knowledge and experience of an artist and not the silly chat of a bunch of middle class NME readers and writers who never really got The Smiths and Moz in the first place. I am also not taking a johnny come lately or fashion lead approach.

What actual knowledge and experience have you presented? Your argument is literally that Morrissey was lying in one instance and not in another, and that the quote I cited from Morrissey "tends to give off warning signs." And I still haven't seen any tactful evidence that supports hassling an innocent user for a track he/she doesn't feel right sharing.

You must see there is difference.
If you can't see this its maybe because I have explained myself in a poor manner and for that I am sorry (it is late though)

It must be late..

 

[murder and desire]

Re: Say something

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear,
A) when people talk about morrissey in his Pomp they will speak of pre 2004..this you surly must see?
B) People are not JUST talking about Lps when they talk about him being at the peak of his powers
C) if you want to take the artistic rout we can BUT I can tell you are a 2 +2 thinker..so you won't get very far
D) I can't remember mentioning the other user. I think If you read correctly I said I agreed with you until you started mouthing off about what Morrisseys best era was.Stating Morrissey said.. people who know quality music said.
As I say Moz has been going on about V andI 13 years- that really does speak louder than anything you said. Do you think he will hold a torch for quarry for that long? The reason Morrissey would have felt the need to mention three LPs is because he has been getting stick in the press about those three lps.
I have also heard him say about ROTT that its his best lp since V and I ( for the record I have spoken to people who know him and the say V and I and Bona Drag are still high on his list of faves).
Also you say People who know quality, who are these people? Because in all the music press reviews I have read in Blighty they always list Viva hate, YA and V and I as his best LPs..oh and The Smiths of course- pre 2004 methinks
E) I am not arguing I was giving a my opinion... you need to learn the difference between the two. Also, "warning signals" says enough,...
D) Taking a quote,miss reading it and adding a child like editorial is hardly a good way to further your cause or to progress things.



I must be honest...I can't really be bothered with this. You seem to be of the ilk who just takes a persons words and deliberately miss reads them...which is course deeply silly.
I take it you have been a Morrissey fan for no more than 6 years or so and have no instinctive understanding of him or any real understanding of his history.

Opinions are just that BUT not all opinions are equal- again this is not a contradiction as in my fist post the key word when I talked of people comparing eras was "general". Obviously there are some people with more of worth to say than others BUT in general these debates are worthless.

I expect you think Morrissey doesn't like Bowie as well.... oh lord

 

[mcrickson]

Re: Say something

Observe:

Also you say People who know quality, who are these people?

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear,
A) when people talk about morrissey in his Pomp they will speak of pre 2004..this you surly must see?
B) People are not JUST talking about Lps when they talk about him being at the peak of his powers

Who are THESE people? The 'bunch of middle class NME readers and writers who never really got The Smiths and Moz in the first place' that you mentioned in your last post? OH WAIT, YOU CITE THOSE SAME PEOPLE AS EVIDENCE FOR YOUR POINT IN THIS POST!

Because in all the music press reviews I have read in Blighty they always list Viva hate, YA and V and I as his best LPs..oh and The Smiths of course- pre 2004 methinks

Contradictions, contradictions...

C) if you want to take the artistic rout we can BUT I can tell you are a 2 +2 thinker..so you won't get very far

I'm failing to see how this is a point and not just an insult.

D) I can't remember mentioning the other user. I think If you read correctly I said I agreed with you until you started mouthing off about what Morrisseys best era was.Stating Morrissey said.. people who know quality music said.
As I say Moz has been going on about V andI 13 years- that really does speak louder than anything you said.

Yes, you keep saying this, but you provide absolutely no tangible evidence. He hasn't mentioned V&I since he made the statement about the three most recent albums being his life's peak.

Do you think he will hold a torch for quarry for that long? The reason Morrissey would have felt the need to mention three LPs is because he has been getting stick in the press about those three lps.

He never seemed to mention loving "Southpaw Grammar" and "Maladjusted" even though he "got stick in the press" about those LPs. How curious.

I have also heard him say about ROTT that its his best lp since V and I ( for the record I have spoken to people who know him and the say V and I and Bona Drag are still high on his list of faves).

Oh, you and your PEOPLE again Very reliable sources.

Also you say People who know quality, who are these people?

Morrissey. The only one we're all here for, the only one we're concerned with.

E) I am not arguing I was giving a my opinion... you need to learn the difference between the two. Also, "warning signals" says enough,...

You seem to be trying to argue, I'll give you that much. And no, "warning signals" really doesn't mean anything to me.

D) Taking a quote,miss reading it and adding a child like editorial is hardly a good way to further your cause or to progress things.

I separate your quotes to more easily sort out your dross of poorly-constructed, contradictory quasi-theory. You seem to have done just the same, organizing your last post into points.

I must be honest...I can't really be bothered with this. You seem to be of the ilk who just takes a persons words and deliberately miss reads them...which is course deeply silly.

And let's just witness the irony with which you follow up that blindingly brilliant assumption:

I take it you have been a Morrissey fan for no more than 6 years or so and have no instinctive understanding of him or any real understanding of his history.

AHH, so it takes TENURE to be a Morrissey fan, gotcha

Opinions are just that BUT not all opinions are equal- again this is not a contradiction as in my fist post the key word when I talked of people comparing eras was "general". Obviously there are some people with more of worth to say than others BUT in general these debates are worthless. I expect you think Morrissey doesn't like Bowie as well.... oh lord

So remind me again why my opinion is worthless and yours is fact, and how that flawless logic is a basis for a sound, academic argument?
Kindly.

 

[roky]

Re: Say something

This thread just blew up in everyone's face.:nopity:
Damn, I don't mean to get involved, but he was just asking for some art work and questions about the order. If he has Kit and Walk Tall 97 and told the person he wouldn't share, so what. What would you do if for say Alan gave you those demos to listen to promise not to leak. What are you going to say? Na, if I heard them, I would have to share so no thanks.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Re: Say something

About 10 or 11 years ago while visiting a friend, he had "The Tape" that everyone talks about. From what I remember being on it was "Walk Tall" 97 version, "No One Can Hold A Candle" 97 version, "Kit", "I know Who I love", "Dennis Cockall Song", "Hanratty" and a version of "Piccadilly" with totally different lyrics. I am pretty sure some others have heard this "Tape" as all anyone calls it. From my memory Walk tall was slower not really SLOW, candle was a tad different. I do remember you can hear Morrissey coughing or clearing his throat before the song, Dennis is an alternate version of Swallow on my neck, Hanratty, kind of slow but catchy, Kit very beautiful, I know who I love, one of the best Moz songs I have heard. Soooooo beautiful. I was dum founded to know that was axed for Wide To Receive. It also had Fantastic Bird. My friend was in New York at the time and lived near a drummer who would have "The Tape"

Thanks, that’s what I asked for in the first place.

It's a bummer that everyone's reaction scared the original poster away from posting the tracks. I'd love to hear them but I understand his/her concern about leaking them.

Next time, we should just respond by saying something like "oh yeah, of course we've heard all those songs, they've all been leaked before but I can't find my copy of Kit, could you just repost it please".

He/She had no real intentions to share and he/she didn’t know how do it technically.

After which, I assumed there was no point in using a logical argument if the user was going to use his/her opinion as fact.

No it isn't. It still is only my point of view which I know at least some older fans share.

In defense of my statement that I personally prefer nearly all Pre-2004 tracks I say that a LP with the following tracklist:
A-Side

Kit
Safe, Warm Lancashire Home
Happy Lovers at Last United
You Should Have Been Nice to Me
It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small (slow demo version)
Please Help the Cause Against Loneliness (demo Moz vox)
Lifeguard on Duty
November the Second

B-Side

Treat Me Like a Human Being
I'm Playing Easy to Get
Interlude (Moz vox)
Oh Phoney
Fantastic Bird
The Bed Took Fire
Striptease With a Difference
Honey, You Know Where to Find Me

would simply appeal more to me than his last 3 albums. Mostly in terms of the music, the lyrics, the vocals, the band performance,(in parts) the band members and especially the production.

To wait 7 years for a new album release and to suddenly realize that something is missing left a strange feeling. The new songs sounded great when being performed live 2002. Especially “Bores”. The finished album left me stone cold and I still blame it on the production. From my point of view, the background noises, the moaning and the nontransparent production of the mockingly titled "chimey-Britpop" years had suited him very well in the mid nineties. Brilliant singles like Boxers and Sunny with all their glorious B-Sides may proof this. Visconti brought some of these elements back and consequently ROTT is (for me) by far his best effort of the last 7 years.
So don’t blame me, don’t hate me just because I’m the one to tell you…..

 

[SparkleBoy]

Re: Say something

Holy shit do you have spare time. Go get some sunlight!

Observe:





Who are THESE people? The 'bunch of middle class NME readers and writers who never really got The Smiths and Moz in the first place' that you mentioned in your last post? OH WAIT, YOU CITE THOSE SAME PEOPLE AS EVIDENCE FOR YOUR POINT IN THIS POST!



Contradictions, contradictions...



I'm failing to see how this is a point and not just an insult.



Yes, you keep saying this, but you provide absolutely no tangible evidence. He hasn't mentioned V&I since he made the statement about the three most recent albums being his life's peak.



He never seemed to mention loving "Southpaw Grammar" and "Maladjusted" even though he "got stick in the press" about those LPs. How curious.



Oh, you and your PEOPLE again Very reliable sources.



Morrissey. The only one we're all here for, the only one we're concerned with.



You seem to be trying to argue, I'll give you that much. And no, "warning signals" really doesn't mean anything to me.



I separate your quotes to more easily sort out your dross of poorly-constructed, contradictory quasi-theory. You seem to have done just the same, organizing your last post into points.




And let's just witness the irony with which you follow up that blindingly brilliant assumption:



AHH, so it takes TENURE to be a Morrissey fan, gotcha



So remind me again why my opinion is worthless and yours is fact, and how that flawless logic is a basis for a sound, academic argument?
Kindly.

 

[mcrickson]

Re: Say something

Holy shit do you have spare time. Go get some sunlight!

But if I go get sunlight, I will miss when the ravenous completists finally bully PublicEnema into sharing a 14-year old throwaway track

 

[Phranc & Open]

Re: Say something

But if I go get sunlight, I will miss when the ravenous completists finally bully PublicEnema into sharing a 14-year old throwaway track

It will not happen. Get it! People who claim to have it simply stay calm or will not visit this thread for a while. No one forces anybody to anything. It would have been easier to contact PublicEnema via PN in the first place. That's the harsh truth.

 

[joe frady]

Re: Say something

OK so I realise that this thread has gone tits-up in a headcase debate (no offence) re: OldMoz vs. YoungMoz, BUT if by some chance PublicEnema is still around might I ask if the versions that you have of 'Safe, Warm Lancashire Home' and 'Treat Me Like A Human Being' are the rough 4track demos that have just been released, or are they the studio versions recorded with band at Wool Hall?

Oh and please share 'Kit'

Thank You.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Re: Say something

like a dead pharoah surrounded by gold in a tomb?

Since nothing happened (again) I feel like a dead pharoah in a tomb surrounded by complete emptiness.
Still, life goes on. Just some informations would have been fine. No molesting by PN guarenteed.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Re: Say something

I can't see any point for so much fuss, several track was officially released.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Re: Say something

So much fuss about Maladjusted leftovers?
Come on, (nearly) everybody's interested. I am not talking about the other outtakes which have been discussed enough.

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Re: Say something

So much fuss about Maladjusted leftovers?
Come on, (nearly) everybody's interested. I am not talking about the other outtakes which have been discussed enough.

Maybe Maladjusted outtakes are the only interesting stuff available.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Re: Say something

Maybe Maladjusted outtakes are the only interesting stuff available.

If only they were for the longing ones.

 

[SparkleBoy]

The fact that Enema even started this thread reminds of of Elementary school: "Look what I have! Nya-nya-nya-nya-nya!" If you are unwilling to share something, then don't bother telling everyone you have it in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 1074]

Re: Say something

But if I go get sunlight, I will miss when the ravenous completists finally bully PublicEnema into sharing a 14-year old throwaway track

You've got to actually HAVE the tracks first before you can post them...he doesn't.

As if he was fooling anyone when he created that other username just to say "Alain gave him the demo."

 

[SparkleBoy]

Re: Say something

You've got to actually HAVE the tracks first before you can post them...he doesn't.

As if he was fooling anyone when he created that other username just to say "Alain gave him the demo."

Good call.

 

[Skylarker]

Re: Say something

But don't forget, he's "too much of a luddite" to know how to share them.

But, also, he doesn't feel comfortable betraying his sources.

He's covered all his bases as to why he cannot upload Kit, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with, you know, not actually having it himself.

 

[sundown playboyed]

Re: Say something

You've got to actually HAVE the tracks first before you can post them...he doesn't.

As if he was fooling anyone when he created that other username just to say "Alain gave him the demo."

I am absolutely not Public Enema. But believe what you like