“Morrissey, so much to answer for” by Dorian Lynskey - New Statesman

Morrissey, so much to answer for - New Statesman
There are no excuses left for the former Smiths frontman’s repugnant political views.

By Dorian Lynskey. Illustration by Ellie Foreman-Peck.

 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
I honestly don't think Morrissey's views have changed much since the '80s. Well, not much anyway. New Labour became the new Conservatives, whom have now become New Labour in comparison with the rise of Corbyn and a more socialist Labour Party.

Showing distain for the EU doesn't necessary make you right-wing. In fact it is actually rather a left-wing view too, it's just that there just isn't many prominent left-wingers to put that arguement across successfully (Jeremy Corbyn was someone before he became leader of the Labour Party). The EU is "in tune with austerity and drives a larger and more deadly version in the eurozone; it escalates problems linked to housing, work, wages and education; creates worry and stirs up anger and threatens people’s sense of self."*

For Britain could well be the new Conservatives, which is the Conservatives pre-New Labour. The Conservative party and the Labour party are old, obsolete... dead. I say this as a fan of Corbyn and the current Labour party. What should have happened after Brexit is both the tories and labour switching off their lights and allowing new parties to take to the stage; parties that reflect and represent modern Britain, which both parties currently struggle to do.

Any person or persons being cruel to animals is going to be on the hit-list for Morrissey, and whatever he says about them he won't hold back on his words, no matter how badly they are received.

Multiculturalism is the aim but the Eurozone has forced it upon many nations when it should have done it in a more slower and natural way. Many of these countries are badly managed and therefore become ill-equipped to manage the flow of people entering a country to stay. Public resources and infrastructure suffers due to poor funding and everything seems to rust quicker than before. This then leads to people taking out their frustration and anger at foreigners and not those in government who haven't properly ensured that things are well-funded to help cope with the rise in population.

Morrissey a liberal at heart and mind, I think, and perhaps he's just someone who sees that a utopia can't be rushed, and a country and its history shouldn't be destroyed on the pathway there. We can disagree with him, but he shouldn't be made to shut up and feel left alone. People, and this applies mainly to those on the Left, seem to forget that those who were told to shut up and left alone voted for Brexit. Have we learnt nothing?

Are For Britain fascist? Well I can't see anything from their website or anything Anne Marie Waters says to make that assumption. Should we listen to them? Yes, just as we should every other party because that's when we get to learn from others and discover the invisible divide that separates us. Am I advocating them? No.

Sensible people listen and try to understand where the other is coming from. Simply branding Morrissey racist because you disagree or take things out of context (Chinese people being a "sub-species" a perfect example) does not help anybody. Allowing freedom of speech should be our pride and saviour, along with tolerance towards others, and only then will we soon find ourselves in a better world, a sort of - utopia.

*You can read more about the Left wing case for leaving the EU here: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu
No one is stopping anyone's freedom of speech. Enough. Opposition to your ideas is not stopping you freedom of speech.

Britain First supports Holocaust denial. A man shot and killed a British liberal politician while screaming "Britain First." It fabricates, and photoshops videos, and they have been sued because of it. Their most recent Muslim animal slaughter video was also fabricated, and debunked. Morrissey posted it.

You clearly know nothing about them, and instead rant about something akin to "can't we all get a long?

Here's what the Anti-Defamation League has to say about them:

Origins of Britain First

"Britain First (BF) is a far-right, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant group founded in 2011 by former members of the British National Party (BNP), a far-right political party with ties to neo-Nazis. The group is estimated to have about a thousand members. Britain First was founded by Jim Dowson and Paul Golding in Northern Ireland. Dowson was known for his fervent religious views (he had trained to be a Calvinist minister) and his stance against Islam. Golding was closely associated with Nick Griffin, who ran the BNP from the late 1990s until 2014."

They re-branded as a quasi populist party in order to try to gain more members by creating wedge issues between communities.

This is how these types gain power. Some gullible idiot refuses to investigate them, and instead follows along with the endorsement from someone they're a fan of.

They are dedicated Trump supporters, and Trump has even retweeted false information posted by the group.

You cannot rationalize Morrissey's support for him. I can't imagine anyone who cares about the dangers of these groups could in anyway defend Morrissey on his endorsement. It's beyond the pale.

Here's what UKIP, yes UKIP, had to say about them:

“On the fringes of our politics are nutters and we don't want them anywhere near us."
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
More or less factual and almost all there, but not a a good article at all - any person really intersted in Morrissey can’t be surprised by all his recent (or not) statements.
I disagree. Endorsing far right politicians, and a Neo Nazi offshoot are beyond the pale.

Nothing in his past compares to that.

This is a turning point that helps makes sense of his stray comments from the past.

It also adds more weight to the statement by Spencer's bandmate that the fax that depressed Spencerread "YOUR LOSS JEW BOY." This was supposedly in response to Spencer wanting to use the unreleased music he wrote for what became "It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small." The lyrics are clearly are an attack on Spencer.

I can think of no reason why a current bandmate of his would make it up, and Spencer never denied it. This, on top of previous rumors of anti-semetic remarks that pushed Spencer out of the band. Those rumors were floating around long before his bandmate revealed what the fax said.

The more we learn about Morrissey the more he appears to be a self-absorbed scumbag with a host of authoritarian beliefs, and prejudices. There's just noting redeemable about him now; not the music, not his interviews, not his image, and certainly not his intellect.

He hides behind his sense of vulnerability which is a key tactic of smarmy manipulators who try to gain sympathy while being assholes.

If The Smiths were to reform at this point, it would ruin their legacy. Morrissey has already ruined his. I would hope he has the decency to at least let us have The Smiths to appreciate.
 
D

Don't @ me

Guest
They don't. You're debating a straw-man. They condemn the lumping of millions of people for what a tiny percentage are doing. They also see the hysteria for what it is: An attempt at fear mongering, in order to turn people into single issues voters. They will vote them in, and let them press the rest of their agenda that these single issue voters either don't care about, or too ignorant to notice. It's an age-old strategy meant to target the gullible.

The left has opposed the use of religion in politics, and law making. They don't care about religion outside of that. People have all kinds of stupid, unfounded beliefs that they will not let go of, no matter how reasonably you speak to them.

You're simply arguing against things that aren't true, and then you wonder why you're so confused.

In reality, conservative minds don't deal well with nuance. They lump things together because they see the world as binary. Either/or. Light, and dark. Ones, and zeros.

It's what happens when you cease to have an intellectual foundation to your ideology.
I'm sure this joker doesn't get the irony in arguing that conservative minds see the world as binary, either/or, and lacking in nuance, which is in itself an incredibly binary, either/or, and nuance-deficient argument.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
V

vegan.cro spirit #2525

Guest
Ten minutes.
Pretend its Barleycorn asking, Chezzer, what exactly makes you uncomfortable about Islam? So we don't
generalize anymore. We are mean to the loons by saying they love the Islam knowing
full well that you all are comfortable with aspects of it. Well, we don't know that. We don't know
you all never talked about Islam but in glowing terms.
Or when the Islam subject comes up you all start rattling off a bunch of different religions.
Deflection.:eek:
So its news to me about what makes the loon left sector uncomfortable with Islam, aka
the Religion of Peace.
Maybe listing them a, b, c would be the way to go.:straightface:
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
No one is stopping anyone's freedom of speech. Enough. Opposition to your ideas is not stopping you freedom of speech.

Britain First supports Holocaust denial. A man shot and killed a British liberal politician while screaming "Britain First." It fabricates, and photoshops videos, and they have been sued because of it. Their most recent Muslim animal slaughter video was also fabricated, and debunked. Morrissey posted it.

You clearly know nothing about them, and instead rant about something akin to "can't we all get a long?

Here's what the Anti-Defamation League has to say about them:

Origins of Britain First

"Britain First (BF) is a far-right, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant group founded in 2011 by former members of the British National Party (BNP), a far-right political party with ties to neo-Nazis. The group is estimated to have about a thousand members. Britain First was founded by Jim Dowson and Paul Golding in Northern Ireland. Dowson was known for his fervent religious views (he had trained to be a Calvinist minister) and his stance against Islam. Golding was closely associated with Nick Griffin, who ran the BNP from the late 1990s until 2014."

They re-branded as a quasi populist party in order to try to gain more members by creating wedge issues between communities.

This is how these types gain power. Some gullible idiot refuses to investigate them, and instead follows along with the endorsement from someone they're a fan of.

They are dedicated Trump supporters, and Trump has even retweeted false information posted by the group.

You cannot rationalize Morrissey's support for him. I can't imagine anyone who cares about the dangers of these groups could in anyway defend Morrissey on his endorsement. It's beyond the pale.

Here's what UKIP, yes UKIP, had to say about them:

“On the fringes of our politics are nutters and we don't want them anywhere near us."

Are you the guy that said they were holocaust deniers but forgot to provide any evidence? Btw, supporting Trump doesn't make you a fascist. Sorry, It doesn't.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
I disagree. Endorsing far right politicians, and a Neo Nazi offshoot are beyond the pale.

Nothing in his past compares to that.

This is a turning point that helps makes sense of his stray comments from the past.

It also adds more weight to the statement by Spencer's bandmate that the fax that depressed Spencerread "YOUR LOSS JEW BOY." This was supposedly in response to Spencer wanting to use the unreleased music he wrote for what became "It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small." The lyrics are clearly are an attack on Spencer.

I can think of no reason why a current bandmate of his would make it up, and Spencer never denied it. This, on top of previous rumors of anti-semetic remarks that pushed Spencer out of the band. Those rumors were floating around long before his bandmate revealed what the fax said.

The more we learn about Morrissey the more he appears to be a self-absorbed scumbag with a host of authoritarian beliefs, and prejudices. There's just noting redeemable about him now; not the music, not his interviews, not his image, and certainly not his intellect.

He hides behind his sense of vulnerability which is a key tactic of smarmy manipulators who try to gain sympathy while being assholes.

If The Smiths were to reform at this point, it would ruin their legacy. Morrissey has already ruined his. I would hope he has the decency to at least let us have The Smiths to appreciate.

Considering Moz loves Israel.....there's a strong smell of bullshit about this.
 

sol

Paddington Bear
It's all factual and it's all there. Good article.
You trying to restrict morrissey's opinions
His freedom of speech , As much as
We restrict you freedom of transit for the morrissey concerts
excuse me my grammar english
I am foreign
 

marred

Member
Estimates in 2014 reckoned they had around 80k so called fighters out of a Muslim population of 1.8 billion, so in the scheme of things it’s a few nutters.
Works out to be something like 0.04%
Take a look at the pew research on how many muslims think sharia should be law and that stoning someone to death is a justified punishment for leaving Islam. They number in the hundreds of millions.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Is it racist to believe that England is being overrun by immigrants? overrun and taken over?
Being a slave to the EU?
England isn’t English anymore ....
Racist cards being pulled out LEFT .... RIGHT .... and centre.
Yes you’re blind, and you can’t see
'Overrun' - do you read Breitbart, by any chance? Have voted UKIP? And yes, you ARE racist.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
You trying to restrict morrissey's opinions
His freedom of speech , As much as
We restrict you freedom of transit for the morrissey concerts
excuse me my grammar english
I am foreign
You're an idiot. Who is trying to restrict whose free speech here? Give examples and proof.
 

12" on the slack

team baklava
Talking of Breitbart … the very people who are now praising Morrissey for “daring to speak the truth” were slagging him off and calling him a whiny f***** who needs to die just three months ago.
 
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evennow

Writers on the storm
Morrissey stopped being a lyricist and instead a political commentator with WPINOYB. There was always a thread of political commentary throughout the years but most times with a tongue in cheek approach or a more generalized idea of how he felt about the world in which he lived.

The Morrissey of today is more outspoken, opinionated, and non-nuanced in the delivery of his "message." In the haties he was rarely a part of the public lexicon and he seemed comfortable with a certain level of restraint. Today, he has created his own website to espouse his political views and is just short of Trump and his Twitter posts.

He has built a career that has carried him this far and probably will continue to support his lifestyle with concerts and albums that attract those of like minds, but it leaves me wishing for the more introspective side of his creativity. I was hoping he would continue to produce the quality of lyrics he provided in his youth to speak more about his life as he moves closer to the end. His constant fixation on death was what initially attracted me to him, but he has left the human for the political condition.

His choice and there are so many here who enjoy his recent output that I am not here to judge, but to me I miss songs like Back to the Old House, and Asleep and other lyrically rich songs that relay such emotion and depth of feeling. I still feel there is an untapped well that will one day return again with something that can draw us all together rather than separate us on party lines.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey stopped being a lyricist and instead a political commentator with WPISNOYB. There was always a thread of political commentary throughout the years but most times with a tongue in cheek approach or a more generalized idea of how he feels about the world in which he lives.

The Morrissey of today is more outspoken, opinionated, and non-nuanced in the delivery of his "message." In the haties he was rarely a part of the public lexicon and he seemed comfortable with a certain level of restraint. Today, he has created his own website to espouse his political views and is just short of Trump and his Twitter posts.

He has built a career that has carried him this far and probably will continue to support his lifestyle with concerts and albums that attract those of like minds, but it leaves me wishing for the more introspective side of his creativity. I was hoping he would continue to produce the quality of lyrics he provided in his youth to speak more about his life as he moves closer to the end. His constant fixation on death was what initially attracted me to him, but he has left the human for the political condition.

His choice and there are so many here who enjoy his recent output that I am not here to judge, but to me I miss songs like Back to the Old House, and Asleep and other lyrically rich songs that relay such emotion and depth of feeling. I still feel there is an untapped well that will one day return again with something that can draw us all together rather than separating us on party lines.
These songs aren't political at all ...

Neal Cassady Drops Dead
I'm Not a Ma
Istanbul
Earth Is the Loneliest Planet
Staircase at the University
Kiss Me a Lot
Smiler with Knife
Kick the Bride Down the Aisle
Oboe Concerto
Scandinavia
One of Our Own
Drag the River
Forgive Someone
Julie in the Weeds
Art-hounds
 
G

goodbay mozzzz

Guest
Once I was sure I had found my hero
And I allowed myself to think so
Reality is not real to me

 

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