“Morrissey, so much to answer for” by Dorian Lynskey - New Statesman

Morrissey, so much to answer for - New Statesman
There are no excuses left for the former Smiths frontman’s repugnant political views.

By Dorian Lynskey. Illustration by Ellie Foreman-Peck.

 
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Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I haven’t seen much evidence of debate. I’ve seen plenty of condemnation. I’ve seen posts and links to stories - including the one above - in which the author assumes the only opinion which matters is their own.

It seems to me this is an issue of culture rather than race. I’d enjoy a week in which I didn’t hear the word Islam. I’m sick to the back teeth of it. I’d like a few days in which it didn’t dominate the news. Some can pretend all they like, but Islam isn’t a race. You can join it if you’re mad enough, or leave it if you’re brave enough.

I’d be grateful if, when another atrocity is committed in its name, the next day I didn’t turn on Sky News to be told how wonderful and peaceful it is really and then go to an ad break in which an NGO tries to tap me up for a fiver a month to stop men abroad who follow that credo marrying eight year old girls. It’s almost the definition of mixed messages.

I’d like it clarified. Is it marvellous or does it also allow in its teachings the raping of young children? Or perhaps it hits that minuscule sweet spot where the left are happy for it to apparently endorse peace, love, understanding on one hand and child rape on the other? Why can I donate by text to help stop such practices in the third world, but potentially face arrest for being appalled when it happens in the mill towns of Northern England under the direct and deliberate protection of Labour councils and the police?

Why is Saudi Arabia, one of the great bogeymen of world politics, and the home of Islam, excoriated by the left, yet those same people welcome its teachings in the West? Do they expect a more liberal, reformed Islam to take root? I mentioned the other day the fate of the Iranian hard left who sought to co-exist with Khomenini’s vision after the fall of the Shah. They were immediately killed.

I get the impression that there are some on the left who look at Islam, see parallels with communism, and think, like their Persian predecessors, they can bring about their own revolution in Europe. I’d advise them to think again. They are only competing to be last in the mass grave.
If you ever stopped your grand generalizations you might get my attention.

Do you keep 'the left' on copy ready to paste into every post?

As soon as I see that I just ignore the rest.

You make some great big mistakes while stereotyping. You appear to assume because people on the left defend Muslims that everyone on the left is instantly comfortable with everything within Islam. In reality I think you know, in fact I know you know as you're obviously not an idiot, that it's about not attacking an entire group because of the actions of a few rather than the support of a belief system.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
If you ever stopped your grand generalizations you might get my attention.

Do you keep 'the left' on copy ready to paste into every post?

As soon as I see that I just ignore the rest.

You make some great big mistakes while stereotyping. You appear to assume because people on the left defend Muslims that everyone on the left is instantly comfortable with everything within Islam. In reality I think you know, in fact I know you know as you're obviously not an idiot, that it's about not attacking an entire group because of the actions of a few rather than the support of a belief system.
If the left aren't comfortable with all aspects of Islam, how come they always bend over backwards to defend it and accuse anybody who criticises it of being phobic, racist and fascist? Since when did the left fall in love with religion? Doesn't quite make sense. But then again so many things on the left don't.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey openly endorsed For Britain, to an extent he's never before done with ANY party.

So while pap like "Hitler was left wing" and "is morrissey racist" is being played like a game of ping pong, let's look at the real stuff.

I've just downloaded For Britain's manifesto. While -predictably- there's nowt openly racist in there (though there is a huge amount of discriminatory policies based purely on nationality and ethnic origin, see below), and while there's lots of vague waffling with statements that mean all and nothing, the party is also mentally and perilously right wing on a load of other areas.

I take one, because, as a working class Scouse, and mostly as someone who works like a donkey every day, it's close to my heart.

For Britain advocates scrapping the Working Time Directive. This is something not even the most rabid Tory right wingers support anymore. Not even UKIP stretched this far.

The Working Time Directive is what guarantees workers a minimum statutory holiday period per year (2o days in the UK), it protects workers by ensuring that they rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours; restricts excessive night work; grants a day off after a week's work; and provides for a right to work no more than 48 hours per week. Basic rights, really, nothing fancy. Morrissey wants to vote for a party that wants to get rid of those basic rights.

Without the Working Time Directive, we basically go back to Victorian England and the workhouse, or we get closer to third world countries were workers are exploited to shit with no rights to nothing.

Also, I note: "No welfare benefits for immigrants for a period of 5 years".

That's ALL immigrants, including totally legal ones, like NHS nurses or doctors. They could slave away for 4 and 1/2 years, pay tax and contribute national insurance and into the country's pension pot, BUT if they get ill or injured would be entitled to nothing, absolutely nothing, just because they're NOT BRITISH. Just because of their ethnicity

Morrissey openly supports such a party.

Bungalow
 
V

vegan.cro spirit #2525

Guest
If you ever stopped your grand generalizations you might get my attention.

Do you keep 'the left' on copy ready to paste into every post?

As soon as I see that I just ignore the rest.

You make some great big mistakes while stereotyping. You appear to assume because people on the left defend Muslims that everyone on the left is instantly comfortable with everything within Islam. In reality I think you know, in fact I know you know as you're obviously not an idiot, that it's about not attacking an entire group because of the actions of a few rather than the support of a belief system.
I dont know, Chezzer, what in Islam do you feel uncomfortable with? Im sure there is nothing that bad
that would make you condemn Islam, but what exactly do you loons feel uncomfortable with? Its a vague generalization lefties sometimes, very rarely in fact, throw out there but always lack specifics.
NOT condemnation NO lol but a bit uncomfortable? Can you and Skinny maybe provide a list...
Child rape? Uncomfortable.:crazy: Nothing a little left wing 'education' cant solve in the next
20000 years.
My theory is that Party meeting has yet to decide what the membership is allowed to
be 'uncomfortable' about Islam. In the meantime you all have to vague... Im right?
I thought so.:rock:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If the left aren't comfortable with all aspects of Islam, how come they always bend over backwards to defend it and accuse anybody who criticises it of being phobic, racist and fascist? Since when did the left fall in love with religion? Doesn't quite make sense. But then again so many things on the left don't.
But you are so simplistic. What is "the left"?
There are scores of Labour MPs who fight tooth and nail against Islamic radicalism and have received death threats as well because of it (actually Sadiq Khan is one of them).

The left" means at least 16 million people so it means a lot of things. According to Morrissey the thicko, even Hitler was left wing, so there you go, the more the merrier. There, all of them, Hitler, Tony Blair, Jeremy Corbyn, George Galloway, Tony Benn, Johnny Marr, Diane Abbot, Yvette Cooper, Joey Barton and maybe even Sponge Bob. "The left". Pathetic.

It's like saying "the Right" meaning anything from the EDL to Ken Clarke and from David Cameron to the National Front, from Nigel Farage to Vince Cable and from Michael Heseltine to Tommy Robinson, from Richard Littlejohn to the Queen and from Nick Griffin to Jacob Rees Mogg. Seriously, what the f*** are we talking about here?

Stop banging on about facile "tags", "left", "right", "white", black", "working class" and "upper class"; "London and "Liverpool" and look at the content of what, for example, groupuscules like "For Britain"; Britain First, the EDL and the BNP support. Grow up, seriously.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
If you ever stopped your grand generalizations you might get my attention.

Do you keep 'the left' on copy ready to paste into every post?

As soon as I see that I just ignore the rest.

You make some great big mistakes while stereotyping. You appear to assume because people on the left defend Muslims that everyone on the left is instantly comfortable with everything within Islam. In reality I think you know, in fact I know you know as you're obviously not an idiot, that it's about not attacking an entire group because of the actions of a few rather than the support of a belief system.
"A few". I think ISIS had more than a few members.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
"A few". I think ISIS had more than a few members.
Estimates in 2014 reckoned they had around 80k so called fighters out of a Muslim population of 1.8 billion, so in the scheme of things it’s a few nutters.
Works out to be something like 0.04%
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I honestly don't think Morrissey's views have changed much since the '80s. Well, not much anyway. New Labour became the new Conservatives, whom have now become New Labour in comparison with the rise of Corbyn and a more socialist Labour Party.

Showing distain for the EU doesn't necessary make you right-wing. In fact it is actually rather a left-wing view too, it's just that there just isn't many prominent left-wingers to put that arguement across successfully (Jeremy Corbyn was someone before he became leader of the Labour Party). The EU is "in tune with austerity and drives a larger and more deadly version in the eurozone; it escalates problems linked to housing, work, wages and education; creates worry and stirs up anger and threatens people’s sense of self."*

For Britain could well be the new Conservatives, which is the Conservatives pre-New Labour. The Conservative party and the Labour party are old, obsolete... dead. I say this as a fan of Corbyn and the current Labour party. What should have happened after Brexit is both the tories and labour switching off their lights and allowing new parties to take to the stage; parties that reflect and represent modern Britain, which both parties currently struggle to do.

Any person or persons being cruel to animals is going to be on the hit-list for Morrissey, and whatever he says about them he won't hold back on his words, no matter how badly they are received.

Multiculturalism is the aim but the Eurozone has forced it upon many nations when it should have done it in a more slower and natural way. Many of these countries are badly managed and therefore become ill-equipped to manage the flow of people entering a country to stay. Public resources and infrastructure suffers due to poor funding and everything seems to rust quicker than before. This then leads to people taking out their frustration and anger at foreigners and not those in government who haven't properly ensured that things are well-funded to help cope with the rise in population.

Morrissey a liberal at heart and mind, I think, and perhaps he's just someone who sees that a utopia can't be rushed, and a country and its history shouldn't be destroyed on the pathway there. We can disagree with him, but he shouldn't be made to shut up and feel left alone. People, and this applies mainly to those on the Left, seem to forget that those who were told to shut up and left alone voted for Brexit. Have we learnt nothing?

Are For Britain fascist? Well I can't see anything from their website or anything Anne Marie Waters says to make that assumption. Should we listen to them? Yes, just as we should every other party because that's when we get to learn from others and discover the invisible divide that separates us. Am I advocating them? No.

Sensible people listen and try to understand where the other is coming from. Simply branding Morrissey racist because you disagree or take things out of context (Chinese people being a "sub-species" a perfect example) does not help anybody. Allowing freedom of speech should be our pride and saviour, along with tolerance towards others, and only then will we soon find ourselves in a better world, a sort of - utopia.

*You can read more about the Left wing case for leaving the EU here: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu
 
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vegan.cro spirit #2525

Guest
"A few". I think ISIS had more than a few members.
There is Al Queada, The Islamic State:crazy: and many more Islamist orgs, its impossible to keep a scorecard of all the Islamic nutters. There are about 12 in Syria alone, all way out there, fighting the Infidel..US...LOL:thumb:

Notice how these Islamist apologists can't bring themselves to say one positive thing about the UK or Western Civilization despite being on the dole and assistance. They bite the hand that feeds them.:dog:
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I dont know, Chezzer, what in Islam do you feel uncomfortable with? Im sure there is nothing that bad
that would make you condemn Islam, but what exactly do you loons feel uncomfortable with? Its a vague generalization lefties sometimes, very rarely in fact, throw out there but always lack specifics.
NOT condemnation NO lol but a bit uncomfortable? Can you and Skinny maybe provide a list...
Child rape? Uncomfortable.:crazy: Nothing a little left wing 'education' cant solve in the next
20000 years.
My theory is that Party meeting has yet to decide what the membership is allowed to
be 'uncomfortable' about Islam. In the meantime you all have to vague... Im right?
I thought so.:rock:
Ten minutes.
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
Very sloppy, onesided, and very lazy.
Have you heard of Nick Kent or Charles Shaar Murray?
Just for imbalance I'll post what I posted in t'other thread but a moderator did not see fit to also transfer over.

Even the moderators wont allow free speech anymore...(disclaimer - that Is a not serious statement before you call me a libtard snowflake)

Yes I have actually. I'm pretty sure Charles Shaar Murray would be similarly critical of Morrissey. As I follow him on various social media platforms I think you'll find he is a wishy-washy lefteye libtard lover in the eyes of the sanctimonious free speech lovers.
Nick Kent was overrated. Like a British Poundland version of Hunter S Thompson.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey just endorsed a Holocaust denying political party. Enough said.

If you continue to support him after that, you're a scumbag.

It's the exact same rhetoric and platform that Neo Nazis have used, and in the case of Britain First, they've even transferred over the Hitler animal rights soft spot.

You can't whitewash this now. These aren't vague sentiments, but open endorsements.
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
Morrissey just endorsed a Holocaust denying political party. Enough said.

If you continue to support him after that, you're a scumbag.

It's the exact same rhetoric and platform that Neo Nazis have used, and in the case of Britain First, they've even transferred over the Hitler animal rights soft spot.

You can't whitewash this now. These aren't vague sentiments, but open endorsements.
What party would that be then? Can I see some proof?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If the left aren't comfortable with all aspects of Islam, how come they always bend over backwards to defend it and accuse anybody who criticises it of being phobic, racist and fascist? Since when did the left fall in love with religion? Doesn't quite make sense. But then again so many things on the left don't.
They don't. You're debating a straw-man. They condemn the lumping of millions of people for what a tiny percentage are doing. They also see the hysteria for what it is: An attempt at fear mongering, in order to turn people into single issues voters. They will vote them in, and let them press the rest of their agenda that these single issue voters either don't care about, or too ignorant to notice. It's an age-old strategy meant to target the gullible.

The left has opposed the use of religion in politics, and law making. They don't care about religion outside of that. People have all kinds of stupid, unfounded beliefs that they will not let go of, no matter how reasonably you speak to them.

You're simply arguing against things that aren't true, and then you wonder why you're so confused.

In reality, conservative minds don't deal well with nuance. They lump things together because they see the world as binary. Either/or. Light, and dark. Ones, and zeros.

It's what happens when you cease to have an intellectual foundation to your ideology.
 

reelfountain

Well-Known Member
They don't. You're debating a straw-man. They condemn the lumping of millions of people for what a tiny percentage are doing. They also see the hysteria for what it is: An attempt at fear mongering, in order to turn people into single issues voters. They will vote them in, and let them press the rest of their agenda that these single issue voters either don't care about, or too ignorant to notice. It's an age-old strategy meant to target the gullible.

The left has opposed the use of religion in politics, and law making. They don't care about religion outside of that. People have all kinds of stupid, unfounded beliefs that they will not let go of, no matter how reasonably you speak to them.

You're simply arguing against things that aren't true, and then you wonder why you're so confused.

In reality, conservative minds don't deal well with nuance. They lump things together because they see the world as binary. Either/or. Light, and dark. Ones, and zeros.

It's what happens when you cease to have an intellectual foundation to your ideology.
Ha ha, you're funny. But wrong.
 

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