posted by davidt on Sunday July 01 2001, @07:00AM
To NME, feel free to link to any of the original stories on this site so others can see the full details and original context. Whenever I include content from other sites, including yours, I always try to give credit where it is due. Link from Matthew Fawcett:

Morrissey threatens legal action in documentary row - NME.com
Candid footage of the star on tour last year has been offered for sale on the web by Barry Derbyshire - but Moz says he's really not allowed...
Jun 30 2001 09:05:00:000AM
LEGAL MOZ!

MORRISSEY is threatening legal action against a film director over the sale of a candid documentary of the singer on tour. The 30-minute film entitled 'South With Morrissey' was shot during the South American leg of the ex-Smith's 'Oye Esteban' tour last year, and was originally intended for TV broadcast.

However, director Barry Derbyshire recently set up his own website offering DVD and VHS copies of the documentary, and soon caught the attention of the singer. A spokesman for Morrissey said: "Derbyshire has no rights to the film - all sound and visual elements are owned by Morrissey. The availability and sale of 'South With Morrissey' is against Morrissey's wishes, and will force the inevitable legal action."

Angered by the threats, Derbyshire swiftly responded: "I have no contract with Morrissey and anyone who has followed his career will probably not be too surprised to hear this. For me it's always been about trust, not men in suits sorting out what people should or should not see."

He claims to have had a verbal agreement with Morrissey to make the film, but that numerous requests for feedback from him on the completed documentary were ignored.

The director had previously conducted a series of photo shoots with the singer, some images from which were used as backdrops on the 'Oye Esteban' tour. On his website, www.southwithmorrissey.com, he claims: "This film is not some tacky ' Moz reveals all', it is just my interpretation of events in Latin America."

Many fans responded angrily to talk of a block on the sale of the documentary through various messageboards. Some accused the singer - currently without a record deal - of a "Lars Ulrich-style" attitude in light of the Metallica drummer's fiercely anti-Napster stance, and of neglecting his fanbase of new material.

Morrissey's last UK release was 1997s 'Maladjusted', and since parting ways with Mercury has been more low-profile than ever, emerging briefly to promote the US-only 'Oye Esteban' video compilation DVD last year.
---
Update: the story is also at Yahoo! UK & Ireland: "Morrissey threatens documentary maker with legal action" - link from m.

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  • I hate to think of Morrissey as an angry person,
    I'm sure they can come to an agreement if they communicate,

    give it a go?
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @07:55AM (#14004)
  • Who would have thought? That whole Metallica/Napster thing was obsurd. I really do not think this should be.
    palare -- Sunday July 01 2001, @08:14AM (#14007)
    (User #152 Info | http://worldofabrahan.com/)
    where the world's ugliest boy became what you see...


  • In this article it says he had a verbal agreement
    with Morrissey. Yet he claims to have no contract. He should be aware that contracts
    need not be in writing to be valid and enforceable.
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @10:36AM (#14009)
  • Well can you blame Morrissey I mean if a guy was selling videos and making money off you wouldn't you be ticked off? I hope Morrissey does seek legal action against Barry.
    leedoggpimp <[email protected]> -- Sunday July 01 2001, @10:38AM (#14010)
    (User #2789 Info | http://www.morrisseymusic.com/)
    True friends stab you in the front.
  • Well now it seems inevitable, that this DVD will be shut down in its tracks. Why won't Barry say if he is sending out any of the DVD's already. He should try to send them as fast as he can, before anything big happens. I would love to get my hands on this DVD, and the video.

    I think Moz is being a tad selfish though. I just saw an interview yesterday from 1985. Maybe you guys have seen it. Its the black and white interview in which its just him and a camera with white sealed envelopes with one word questions. Well he talked about money, and he says and I quote "Money one thing you can say about money is that if never ever makes things worse". Well I just think Moz should let this DVD go through and talk to Barry, before he goes in to court again. Hope everything turns otu ok, for Barry he seem's like an honest guy.

    moz_head_2000 <[email protected]> -- Sunday July 01 2001, @11:55AM (#14014)
    (User #263 Info | http://www.geocities.com/mammaryg/)
    Sleep On And Dream Of Love, Because It's The Closest Thing I'll Get To Love....
  • Reuters (7/01/01)

    As revealed today, pop singer Morrissey sold his soul to the dark lord for 6 bushels of potatoes and Wendy Wu.

    A DVD entitled, "south with Morrissey", a documentary detailing the singer's southward slide of morals, was halted when the documentary director failed to observe the verbal agreement as mediated by Morrissey's manager, and satan's pawn, former whitehouse representative James Baker.

    Fans were outraged by the star's lack of willingness to share the work. Citing Morrissey is greedy and an all-around party pooper, they responded from their commune after a days work of growing weed on the mountain and relaxing to records of Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters played at 33 1/3 rpm.

    They went on to say absolutely nothing about Lars Ulrich, as it is the opinion of this journalist they would have if they had thought about it, but were too stoned to say anything and this journalist has a deadline to meet.

    "yeah, maaannn. This morrissey cat....he's just a....cat."

    More intelligent and informed fans could not be reached for comment.
    suzanne -- Sunday July 01 2001, @01:53PM (#14020)
    (User #36 Info)
    I scare dead people.
  • this is really sad. if this bloke was an aquaintance of moz (it seems he was; they'd met a few times, he'd been allowed to film the tour, he provided the backdrop etc) then there's no way he should have released the results without the singer's full approval. that's why it's different to a normal bootleg (random bloke in crowd smuggles video recorder into concert).

    also, morrissey shouldn't have ignored barry when he sent the dvd for his comments and let the whole thing reach the stage that it has.

    this whole thing is just depressing. it's been said a 100 times before but I'm gonna say it again; "morrissey sign a record deal, record those 20 odd songs you've written and release the flipping things!"

    good lord! has there ever been a harder time to be a morrissey fan?

    john steed.
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @02:11PM (#14024)
  • An open letter to Moz

    Ok, why not post an open letter to Moz on this message board (maybe the manager of this site will move it to a ‘feature’ slot?) Regardless...About this whole lawsuit over the ‘South With Morrissey’ video issue...Ugh. Fame. Money. Lawsuits. I know, but this man doesn’t seem like an ‘enemy’ type. Maybe he’s just a fan with camera talent and the chance to work with you. For some reason, it ended abruptly. Hopefully it can be worked out amicably?

    Regardless, the real reason for writing...I think I speak for many when I ask: Sir, why are you not releasing music? Your office is calling and leaving messages!!

    It seems all we have to contend with for the past 4 years is a few concerts, lawsuits, reissue, repackage, repackage, lunch with Courtney Love updates, lawsuits, and your Los Angeles concert attendance schedule. But is it all enough?

    Dont leave us with ‘Maladjusted’ as a swansong!(Trouble Loves Me, Lost, and a handful of others aside). I’d prefer ‘Kill Uncle’

    Are you waiting for a major label offer? 7 digits? How about a really cool indie (like Matador?) where you can have total control and release everything you want. Do you really need 7 digits anymore? Men need their Gucci, Steven but....

    Ive been an ardent fan for going on 16 years and lived by your release dates. They dont exist anymore. 4 years now and Im sure you have scads of songs to go. Can We Hear Them? You’re needed now more than ever, living in a city of Britney and Limper Bizkit.

    Honorary American, man with a large forehead and a beautiful face, recluse in an amazing home, vegetarian in this horrid hot dog world! Has the reel-to-reel broken down?

    A call to arms

    A farewell to arms?

    Darling, What are you waiting for?

    “It’s not much, but I’ve been far...”

    Fondest,

    I know

    I Know Very Well... -- Sunday July 01 2001, @02:48PM (#14026)
    (User #3130 Info)
    I Know Very Well...
  • Is there any mention of Morrissey-solo.com in any of these stories....

    Geez they never seem to give credit where credit is do.....

    That's something that always pissed me off....Its happen before, some other site will published some story of Moz heard here first, and push it off as something their great Journalist researching minds has found...a little link would of be fine....

    done ranting,
    Moz cowboy
    Moz cowboy -- Sunday July 01 2001, @06:24PM (#14039)
    (User #236 Info | http://hometown.aol.com/mozcowboyii/myhomepage/profile.html)
    "Kissing can be rather tiring...I'd much rather read to you."
  • first off, i think moz should talk to this guy before, instead of start a fight. Morrissey has to much talent, and it's time to come with new material. he's a precious singer, and his past songs will be forever in millions of heart. Morrissey, please, be reasonable, your fans miss you a lot. I'm not writing this to judge you, I'm just saying that we really miss you. Your songs are like jewels for us. There are a lot of singers and bands out there, but they are not Morrissey. There's no one like you. Is it so much asking for a new album?
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @06:56PM (#14041)
  • I have to say that it pisses me off to read this article without a mention of Morrissey-solo. The NME passed this off as if it were their own scoop. The NME did not do any research whatsoever. All they did was cut an paste the article from Morrissey-solo and make out like it was their story. Hey NME.. why don't you piss off and get your own stories. If you must leech, at least give Morrissey-solo the friggin' credit it and David deserves! We all know this is the only relevant source for information on Moz anywhere, apparently the music print media knows this too since they can't get their own Moz sources. Man that pissed me off. Another reason for Moz fans to hate the NME! David, I would be soooo pissed if I were you.
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @08:31PM (#14046)
  • We know very well that most of the info on Morrissey are exactly here, on Morrissey-solo, and it's a disrespect to David Tseng that nme didn't even had the decency to mention his site. If you are fan of Morrissey, and you are on the net, you will first come to Morrissey-solo to search for news. That's the place for his fans. However, i never liked nme anyway. David dedicates a lot of his time to keep this site running, and he should receive the respect he deserves.

    Hugs, David
    x
    Anonymous -- Sunday July 01 2001, @09:19PM (#14050)
  • Metallica Lars Ulrich style arguement.I don`t think that`s a valid arguement.First of all if I am not mistaken metallica got napster to provide them with the names of those napster users who downloaded their songs for free and made it so those users couldn`t get back to that site.Morrissey has never threatned to do anything of that kind.I`ve never heard him get worked up about or make a fuss about all the bootleg recordings of his shows that are in existence.In fact as I said in one of my other posts that I recall someone saying that during one of his shows he said this is for the bootleggers.There is a difference here he actually knew this person and allowed this person to film him and he obviously trusted this guy enough to let him follow him around and film him.Then this guy releases a dvd without his permission and Morrissey says he owns this footage.Maybe he feels betrayed and like it`s a breach of confidence.And let`s remember it is his image on this dvd and he has every right to control it.This is not like the napster/metallica thing at all.So that isn`t a valid arguement.And by the way I also think it was wrong for NME not to give davidT or Morrissey solo any credit and I agree with those of you that this is the only place for breaking news and information on our wonderful Mozzer.-Tibby How I Love All Of The Very Mozzer Things Of Life......
    tibby -- Monday July 02 2001, @12:39AM (#14059)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • Well, I guess they had other sources as well, but the yahoo link said something about the video meant meant originally to a tv broadcast. Besides, both articles use the word "candid" - a word that I found a bit weird, but then I don't speak English well.

    For the sad fact that all the flaming-horror has reached the press, I just have to say that perhaps it should be a good idea to write an open letter to Morrissey, signed by his true fans, showing our support and care, and so the press could not forget his truthful fans so easily and that might minimize the harm which was already done. Perhaps we should hear what Wendy has to say about this idea, she might approve that or not, I trust that she knows what is best to do.
    For the future, I really hope that people can see that what they write here, without assuming any responsibility for, may have consequences for people who are exposing themselves, and the moderators should try to control flaming in a most efficient way.
    I'm really very sad that it all happened. :(
    Havfine -- Monday July 02 2001, @05:03AM (#14063)
    (User #284 Info)
    "Have you forgotten how to love yourself?" Red House Painters
  • I think some people posting above are a little misinformed. For a start, there is no such thing as a copyright on either facts or quotes, so nme are free to use reported speech as they see fit so long as they attribute the quotes to the people they come from. There is nothing taken from this site other than - arguably - the quote from the Moz spokesperson (but who's to say nme didn't pursue their own enquiries and get the same stock response?)

    Secondly, the response from the director was emailed to anybody who asked via the contact email on the www.southwithmorrissey.com site. I personally asked about the status in light of the Moz "official" comment that had been put out and was sent exactly what was posted up on this site.

    Thirdly, the link to the piece on yahoo.com was originally taken from Ananova (who supply their news copy), who in turn took the story from nme (as their copy states).

    Instead of complaining about the press getting to a story and www.morrissey-solo.com not being mentioned in the story, people should be congratulating David for keeping the fans informed so quickly on a topic that I'm concerned could result in those same fans losing money on a risky purchase. I know for a fact that nme haven't ripped off anything that David Tseng/ has written on this matter, but there's no question that he was the first person to get the story out to the people that'd want to know. Hats off.

    Incidentally, the great job David does is acknowledged by the fact that this site is listed as the top link in the Moz section on nme.com. Check out http://www.nme.com/nme/External/Artists/Artist_Pag e/0,1226,60693,00.html. Oh, and to counter a previous wild allegation, I can vouch that the writer of the nme.com piece hasn't touched marijuana for about a year and a half. And also that the strange assertion that nobody has mentioned similarities with the kind of thing Lars Ulrich was saying over the Napster debate can be dispelled by reading both this site and others.

    (ps - I've just tried to post the above message, and the system this site is built on says "please don't use so many caps. using caps is like yelling!" Looks like technology used surrounding a Moz site doesn't like nme (note the small case) either!)

    dandelion burdock -- Monday July 02 2001, @07:51AM (#14067)
    (User #3134 Info)
    • OK, going by the book the NME story does not have to mention this site. It just seems like they are going through a lot of effort to avoid having to give any sort of credit to this site. That's not so much a big deal, but I think people who read that article are not getting the full story. It wasn't so much that it was covered quickly here, but it actually originated here. I also don't think that the site's visitors are given much credit either, with the quote from the article:

      Many fans responded angrily to talk of a block on the sale of the documentary through various messageboards.

      Which various message boards? Certainly not their own.
      davidt <[email protected]> -- Monday July 02 2001, @08:46AM (#14068)
      (User #1 Info)
      • Various is a term often used to save having to list, say, 4 or 5 cumbersome URLs. If people care enough about Morrissey to want to check out a messageboard, it's 99% certain that they already know where they are.

        Add that to the fact that all of the messageboards relating to Morrissey are clogged up with over-emotional crap irrelevant to anything, and you may start to see why a news piece would perhaps not bother with finding them worthy of mention. If it was a feature article, fair enough - maybe a little box out saying how to find out which sites are good for Moz news - but it's a news piece, and if you start listing websites in 350 word copy, that doesn't leave room for facts.
        dandelion burdock -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:01AM (#14069)
        (User #3134 Info)
        • A question of size?

          Really?
          You insisted on giving credit for the source of some of your material, though all of it came from one place, to
          various messageboards (21 Characters)

          and claimed to list M-solo would take up too much, space. bullocks.

          morrissey-solo (14 Characters)
          morrissey-solo.com (18 characters)
          www.morrissey-solo.com (22 characters)

          Smiths <reversethis-{moc ... a} {2eporhtdniw}> -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:33AM (#14073)
          (User #215 Info)
        • Dandelion,

          The pages are often filled with disrespectful comments like that, unfortunatley - "over-emotional crap irrelevant to anything". Saying that is not only higly abusive but also irrational, since these words are overloaded with negative feelings themselves, and that is exactly what should be avoided here. I DO believe that people can say what they want without being rude, so PLEASE let's give it a try. Remember, above all, this is a community, whether we want it or not - let's try to keep it going, and respect Morrissey and DavidT's hard work here.

          By the way, facts were made mostly because emotions throughout history, so a fact by itself is not objective reality as most suppose, being rather a product generated in time as a consequence of Reason, emotions and environment.
          Havfine -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:50AM (#14076)
          (User #284 Info)
          "Have you forgotten how to love yourself?" Red House Painters
        • I'm sorry that you find the URLs on this site or URLs in general cumbersome, but I'm sure they will improve gradually. Since it's on the web, you can create hyperlinks to these URLs in your news story.

          If this attitude and policy is consistent with those of the NME, it is no wonder they are slowly going out of business.
          davidt <[email protected]> -- Monday July 02 2001, @11:43AM (#14083)
          (User #1 Info)
          • Re:Erm...beg to differ... by Anonymous (Score:0) Monday July 02 2001, @12:18PM
          • Re:Erm...beg to differ... by dandelion burdock (Score:1) Tuesday July 03 2001, @02:12AM
            • Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

              There was a time, in the early days of this site, where David was merely gathering information from other places. Someone from London would let David know about an NME article, someone from LA would post a "Morrissey sighting" and everyone was happy because this was information that none of us could gather on our own. To make a long story short, at some point the people in Morrissey's camp recognized the value of this site, and made it the semi-official web page. Now news items are being exclusively released to Morrissey-solo, so Moz-solo isn't quoting the NME... it's the NME quoting Moz-solo.

              To make matters worse, the article (which was more or less lifted directly from these pages) doesn't credit the original source of the story. And why should they? The advent of the world wide web has made publications like the NME utterly useless. In this case, South With Morrissey was announced, and Morrissey (or someone speaking for him) responded to the fans that day. Why wait a few days to read a partial version of the story in the NME? So of course the NME is not going to call attention to this site.

              Furthermore, if I was the person that "wrote" the article, I would not put a link to this site either. Think of embarrassing it would be for me, the "author", to show everyone the original source. If I did that sort of "work" for a living, I would want people to think that I was writing articles, not gathering information from one source and presenting it as my own.

              Did you check the link on Yahoo UK/Ireland? It says that "A spokesman for Morrissey told NME.COM: ..." Someone should let Yahoo know that they can claim that fact as their own... no need to quote the original source of the information.

              P.S. - I was just checking out the content on the NME web page, and I noticed something strange. The NME's biography of Morrissey starts off with a few years of Nick Drake's career. Great content guys. :)
              Aaron -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @09:47AM (#14147)
              (User #238 Info)
        • it looks to me like you could have left out the 350 words you had chosen:

          1. Why wasn't the documentary ever released on television per it's original intent?
          2. Was there anyone who agreed with Morrissey and can their quote be included?
          3. Should Morrissey be held accountable if the director failed to get the documentary on television?
          4. Why did communications break down?
          5. Why was nothing put in writing?
          6. Why, in the director's original advertisement, did they neglect to mention that this wasn't a licensed product?
          7. What was the original agreement?

          suzanne -- Monday July 02 2001, @06:28PM (#14100)
          (User #36 Info)
          I scare dead people.
    • Funny, I read papers all the time, and I constantly see sources refrenced.

      Almost every time when a news source breaks a story, other respectable news outlets who pick up those stories, will refer to such as - "The Wall street Journal reported ..", the "the NYTimes ran story" etc.

      "Various websites", means what, only Morrissey solo, you might as well say it.
       
      Its common respect if your entire story is just redistrbuting someone elses work that you state that. Its very obvious that whatever the case of copyright law, the NME writer, you I guess you, is riding the coat tails of the success of this website. If this website did not exist, you would not have had that material for the story. Frankly I don't think it would have existed in any detail without this site. The man selling the DVD and the MOz spokeperson spoke to davidt intially not NME.

      You added nothing to that report, insightful or otherwise that was not verbatuim taken from this site. I don't see the big deal in giving credit where credit is due. If you are getting paid collecting the work of someone else the least you can do it mention that persons efforts.

      You do what you do, I imagine, because you want all the credit for yourself, and think that because the source in an internet site, it will be overlooked. You think you can get away with someone elses labor buttering your bread, without any one looking at you funny. Well you can't.

      If I were David, I'd do to you exactly what you do to him, and not mention another NME article or refrence so long as use the content he discovers without giving proper credit for it.

      Ya punk
       
      Smiths <reversethis-{moc ... a} {2eporhtdniw}> -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:02AM (#14070)
      (User #215 Info)
    • Re:Erm...beg to differ... by suzanne (Score:1) Monday July 02 2001, @10:02AM
  • I hope my Dvd will come before he gets sued ;-P
    Unruly Girl -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:08AM (#14071)
    (User #249 Info)
  • If this continues and given that Moz has all the free time in the world (you know, not recording and all), I think it will save him a lot of money to study and pass the bar exam. Morrissey and Associates, Barristers and Solicitors. Of course, the associates would be Dallow, Spicer, Pinkie, Cubitt........
    Fence -- Monday July 02 2001, @09:35AM (#14074)
    (User #1034 Info)
    Heel in the back, size 13
  • My grievance is not so much the aspect of this person selling this DVD and profiting off of it, without Morrissey receiving any monies. That would not be right. Yet, the creator of the DVD has already went on the record and said that was not his intention to do anyway and he was more than willing to give Morrissey his cut. The issue is Morrissey and his legendary capriciousness! He had given this gentleman a verbal agreement to do this....hence this is why he travelled with Moz and the band and HAD this kind of access. Now, in typical fashion (as any Moz/Smiths fan would know) based on past failed promises and broken agreements...Morrissey has backed out of something with no explanation whatsoever! Then everyone is supposed to shrug their shoulders and not ask why and continue to fawn over him like "mindless sheep", as so many of the visitors to this site so willingly do and then take on the incredibly huge task of defending him and justifying his behaviour because he is Morrissey. Once again, this is not excusable no matter who you are....it is lack of respect to fans, associates and in the past...fellow band members (Joyce, Rourke, Marr, Stepen Street, etc.) And the fact that he has produced no new material, and is making no effort to even do so...while keeping everyone hoping and waiting and on the edge of their seat clamoring for something...anything new, is really a piece of work!
    Anonymous -- Monday July 02 2001, @11:30AM (#14082)
  • I hate it how most people think Morrissey is so goddam perfect. He has enough money as it is, and as this issue is all to be about money, i think Morrissey is wrong here. 4 years it's been since ANY new material from him. If Morrissey continues with this spontaneous attitude, which can get nasty, as seen here, he will never get a record deal. Will the threats of lawyers occur 'IF' he manages to gain a recording contract. Morrissey is one of the most feared artists in the profession today. Record companies know how lucrative he can be financially, but they also know how destructive and detremental he can be also. Morrissey has been bled dry of material by us, our loving fans, which is sad to say. I really do think Morrissey should either promote himself more and continue his career at a quicker pace, or call time on his very illustrious and interesting career. At the moment im sad, if one of these two things occured, i would be much much happier for Moz.
    mbb321 -- Monday July 02 2001, @01:25PM (#14089)
    (User #1889 Info)
    "Dink Dank Doo!"
  • Anonymous: please see my response re: the Howie Klein posting. Perhaps you've already read it, but have chosen not to respond? Hopefully your silence is not from his hired goons.
    J. Razor -- Monday July 02 2001, @02:08PM (#14090)
    (User #724 Info)
    I'm Alone
  • Kill Your Idols (Score:2, Interesting)

    Having read about Morrissey's objection to the sale of this bootleg video I could only shake my head and stifle a grimmace. My adoration of Morrissey shall not be questioned; I love him more than I do any other singer, songwriter, poet, pop icon in the world. However, my cynicism never lets me forget that Morrissey, being a celebrity, can act like a complete narcissist. It is my firm belief that once artists begin to imbue their work with a certain amount of sacredness they are beginning to take themselves way too seriously. Napster and the many artists who spoke out against its existence fall under this category. Morrissey has no right to threaten a legal suit against the maker of this bootleg. When I say 'right' I am talking more about an artistic principle. Morrissey is slowly becoming a caricature of himself and trying to milk the past of its fruitful bane. When the issue is money then celebrities who demand to be paid for every one of their images that are captured on film are no longer artists, they are an establishment, to use the tired out old phrase, they are a sell-outs. If Morrissey truly wanted to make art for art's sake he would sign with an indie label or use his wealth to finance the release of his new album. Since his fan base is small and there is a slim chance he will ever win a new audience the net would be the most logical place for him to release material. This has all been said before but I repeat it to underscore the harsh reality that Morrissey will not put out anymore new material. And do we really want him to? We already have too many larger than life artists and what is worse we already have too many larger than life 'indie' artists. Morrissey should be thankful that people are even interested in his work at all and that his visage is actually out in the world circulating. No, I'm afraid Morrissey is wrong in this situation and I'm afraid that so are many of his fans for taking so much of what he has said and done far too seriously. The relationship between the pop icon and the pop fan is a reciprocally sick relationship--but would we want it any other way? I wouldn't. Morrissey is dead, long live Morrissey!
    TheGoddessEmmaPeel -- Monday July 02 2001, @05:31PM (#14099)
    (User #3136 Info | http://www.heartlessbitches.com)
    "I contradict myself? So I contradict myself, I contain multitudes" Walt Whitman
  • maybe morrissey is up to no good,maybe the only reason he is going to take legal action is because this is the only way he can get money right now,maybe he does not have a new album ready? and this is how hes going to get money? by backstabbing a person whom he gave "all" access to in the first place.

    im just saying maybe
    Anonymous -- Monday July 02 2001, @11:52PM (#14113)
  • Morrissey backstabbing the person he gave all access to.It`s the other way around.Morrissey gave this person all access then the guy turns around and sells the dvd without his permission.I`d say Moz was the one stabbed in the back.Morrissey says he owns this footage anyway.Doesn`t anyone out there think he might be doing this for the sake of his fans.Maybe he doesn`t want them shelling out 29 dollars for an inferior product.And this is really quite a different situation than some concert bootleg.So please I implore you give a little something for all the beautiful music Morrissey has given to us.Don`t buy it!Show him how much you love him.And stop all the Morrissey bashing!About the NME thing I really do think it was unfair for them not to credit this site or it`s visitors.Because we didn`t all agree that blocking the sale was wrong.The April issue of "Mojo" gave credit to "The Arcane Old Wardrobe" for it`s interview archives.You`d think the NME could do the same.-Tibby How I Love All Of The Mozzer Things Of Life........
    tibby -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @01:15AM (#14119)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • I don't see why people are having such a problem seeing the similarities with the Metallica attitude towards Napster. Just because people said a "Lars Ulrich-style" attitude doesn't mean the two things are exactly the same.

    Metallica don't want material getting to fans without them getting money.

    Morrissey doesn't want material getting to fans without him getting money.

    That's the point that was made, and it's valid. I can't understand why people are writing essays explaining why the two things are so different.
    Anonymous -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @02:39AM (#14126)
  • Good Morning, Mr Barry J Derbyshire :-)
    You (or your buddies) are saying that Moz wants to prevent your little scummy bootleg DVD released 'cause it "is the only way he can get money right now". But I think Moz regularly receives plenty of royalties from the Worldwide sales of both Smiths and solo material... He does not need some extra cash that bad... I think for him it is a matter of principle and some written or explicitly verbalized agreement between Him and you broken... Yeah, bootlegs are a fact of life, and maybe Moz would better to ignore small-time buggers like you, Mr Barry J, but hey, don't tell us you are holier then other bootleggers and Maria Magdalena... You have a "chutzpah" to charge $29 bucks for the 30 MINUTES(!) footage of questionable quality, and Morrissey and his people may do Mr Average Mozfan a favour by explicitly distancing themselves from your 30-minutes long cinematic err... masterpiece... 'cause I doubt that this DVD has any redeeming value... Of course, I'm not god myself and maybe your DVD shows something interesting, even if against Moz wishes, but don't you agree that you didn't do your legalistic homework before releasing it for sale... A least not to try throw mud in the Morrissey direction, sell your little shady DVD in silence, there is no need to tell us about "knowing past history" of Moz or him "backstabbing" you... Essentially, you illegally took piece of something which is HIS... So Moz had 2 legit options: ignore you or stop you on the tracks... He chose the second one... And no need by you and your friends to set little cowardly flames around this messageboard... As of kids itching to shell another $29 bucks for the DVD, why not to buy some legit Moz-related memorabilia on e-Bay or in the small indie-shops instead.. I'm talking about rare LP singles, posters, badges et cetera... I think Moz deserves some respect... There are bootlegs and there are bootlegs... I have bought some Tori Amos and Iggy Pop bootleg CDs myself, but I knew that those artists don't mind those bootlegs even if they does not endorse them... But I would never buy your DVD mister, even if you will sell it to me for one buck, 'cause to buy your product is against explicit wishes of an artist, therefore it is a blatant disrespect of Moz to help you with your house downpayment.. or your brand-new car or whatever, Mr Barry J... Suggestion: why not to make Brittney Spears or Mandy Moore bootlegs... Mucho better $$$ and wider audience of 13-year-old middle-school girls... Perhaps their security people would throw you out in 3 minutes and kick you a little bit in the process (good!)... but why not to try it anyway with a hidden camera maybe... If this would fail, Mister Barry J, you could always make good money by shooting home-movies for Beverly Hills weddings and Bar Mitzvahs... I mean, I don't want you to be poor and miserable, I want you to be plump and jolly... Cheers, precious, and keep your cinematic scums elsewhere... :-)
    Joe Buck -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @07:41AM (#14135)
    (User #3058 Info)
  • Doesn't Morrissey have the right to control his own image as a performer? When you hire someone to film you, they are acting as your agent (i.e. employee). They do not have the right to go and sell those images without your consent--just as companies own your work product and you cannot turn around and sell it to others. If I worked for a newspaper, for example, even on a freelance basis, and I am paid for my services, I cannot turn around and sell my article/photo directly to others without consent or without retaining some pubishing rights. What if Morrissey didn't like the way the film came out--the way he looked, what he said, the quality? Doesn't he have some control over how he publishes information about himself? Maybe he was planning to do something different with that material. It sounds like he has a pretty good case against this filmmaker. Whether legal action is the best course to remedy this situation, however, is HIS decision, no one else's.

    Xhris -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @07:48AM (#14136)
    (User #1858 Info)
    • Xhris, you said it right! If Mr Barry J Derbyshire was indeed EMPLOYED by Mr Morrissey, Morrissey has an absolute right to prevent Mr Derbyshire from releasing it's DVD without Employer EXPLICIT permission... For example, when I start working for any hi-tech company (I'm into software business, BTW, and I do contract work), I always sign an agreement that all the software code I would write for ACME company EXPLICITLY BELONGS to this company, and I would be persecuted under such and such article of the Law if I would ever try to use this code for my own enrichment and/or for the competing firm without consent of the company... 'nuff said!
      Joe Buck -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @08:54AM (#14143)
      (User #3058 Info)
  • I'm sorry, but this NME article isn't even newsworthy. Morrissey threatens legal action...again! It draws a parallel to the Joyce case almost before you can finish reading the bold print title. It's completely cliche. Really, I can't understand why some people here feel the need to ramble on over such a cloaked topic. The facts are elluding everyone and quite honestly, all this second hand guess work is becoming almost as redundant as the headline in question.
    haze <[email protected]> -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @08:10AM (#14137)
    (User #1115 Info)
    myspace.com/deathwrites
  • I was having email problems yesterday. Please try to contact me at this address instead:

    [email protected]

    Sorry for any inconvenience!
    J. Razor -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @09:03AM (#14144)
    (User #724 Info)
    I'm Alone
  • "...the scales of justice sway one way in the rooms of those least likely to..."
    Anonymous -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @09:15AM (#14145)
  • Enough of this. It really is none of our business what Morrissey's reasons are regarding this matter with the dvd. His life is HIS life, he is not an object. I still cannot believe the insults that are being thrown about on this site. It's one thing to be an objective, eyes-open fan, but it is another thing to only care about yourself and what you can obtain from another person. Morrissey deserves to be able to relax and live life as he sees fit. And when the right time comes to release a new album, he will. Where did this strange idea come from that he owes us new material by a certain date? Just let it go, and live YOUR lives.
    Have some faith, and please try not to be so quick with the tiresome slurs.
    Violeta -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @09:50AM (#14148)
    (User #1820 Info)
    swivel and sway
  • sometimes this seems like an ancient arena. meat and blood to the public. lions around a corpse, yada yada yada... morrissey, as an artist, has the right to feature his image, music, art, name, face, as he may want. i understand his point, since i'm aldo an artist, and i'd hate to see my works "without my desire', being used everywhere. the discussion here is floating on the "permission" stuff. but above all these, let's face it: it's his work, his art, his name. i am one of those who think that j barry didn't have bad intentions, and you people are talking music business, so some of those harsh remarks on Morrissey have some sense, and even some credibility. But, I don't think we should jump on personal judgements. Seems that wendy is one of those who know Moz is person, and her message on the board was very eloquent. She doesn't have the right to call the fans names. But my point is: morrissey is an artist, a real, great one, and if he is pissed off with this case, so what??? damn, it's his work!

    the only thing that saddens me is the giant void in our lives, without a new album, without news on him. I assume most of us love him. Regarding the video, well, let's get real: sooner or later, we will have this video in hands, with or without j barry. lot's of bootlegs running everywhere, why would be different now?

    I have read the NME stuff, and i just am sorry for not see any mention to this site. David T is a great guy, and I had the feeling that they simply "ignored" morrissey-solo. But, quoting Morrissey: "the more you ignore me, the closer i get"...
    somnium -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @10:47AM (#14150)
    (User #1086 Info)
  • ...interesting that Morrissey hasn't been too concerned with his image being tarnished by inferior products when most of those inferior products have been released by the very same record companies he's collecting royalties from.

    this 'release' is more appealing that the last 47 compilations put together..so of course he'd want to stifle it...

    I never thought I'd make a comment like that, ever. Christ Morrissey, do something....you once said that you have an audience with a very real need...that need is more acute than ever. You DO actually have a moral responsibility to get on the stage...!

    (Cue aggressive 'feedback' from self-righteous "he doesn't have to do anything for anyone types"...most of whom live in Morrissey's backyard.)
    Anonymous -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @11:37AM (#14152)
  • Hi everyone! This is my first post, so please forgive me. ;)

    If Morrissey and J. Barry had an agreement that the footage was to be made into a TV documentary, I can understand why Morrissey is upset that Barry is selling DVDs of the footage. I happen to think that $29 is a LOT of money for any DVD, let alone a bootleg. His site isn't secure, he's using a post office box...it just seems that someone who would want to go into a business venture so big as to sell a DVD would take more care in assuring the privacy and safety of his customers.

    Barry already stated that Morrissey never returned any of his messages or responded to the copy he was sent. Just because Morrissey didn't respond to him didn't give Barry permission to sell the footage. Barry should have kept the footage private until he got an answer from Morrissey.

    I don't agree with those people who think that Morrissey is money-hungry. Face it, the man has plenty of money. What he would get from the DVD sale wouldn't make or break him. However, he does have a right to say how his image is being used. If he agreed to something verbally, and it wasn't done in the way he agreed to it, he should fight to get it done correctly.

    Another thing: if Barry got so much access to Morrissey, his staff, and the show, why is there only half an hour of footage? If it were me, I would have shot everything possible.
    arien -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @12:29PM (#14158)
    (User #3147 Info)
    "I like talking to a brick wall. I find it is the only thing that never contradicts me." -- Oscar Wilde
  • The reason I disagree with the whole Morrissey is like Lars Ulrich debate is because there is no similarity to the two at all.First of all Lars Ulrich went after his own fans when he got napster to provide the names of users who had downloaded metallica songs on that site.And then had them blocked from entering that site.Morrissey has never threatened to do anything of that kind.
    Let`s face facts here this footage rightfully belongs to him and if doesn`t want it released that`s his perogative.If he chooses to block the sale of the dvd he has every right to.That doesn`t make him greedy or vindictive.It just means he standing up for himself.I don`t think this thing is about money at all.It`s about someone taking something that is rightfully yours and then making a profit from it.Like someone stealing your car and then selling it for their own financial gain.
    Third as Xhris and Joe Buck said J. Barry was hired to do a job and the end results don`t belong to him.Morrissey is only standing up for himself and has every right to do so.
    Last but not least Morrissey doesn`t owe us anything.Yes we love,admire and adore him ,but he`s not a machine just cranking out a product.I`m sure anything he releases has to feel right for him.Maybe he just wants to live right now and not have pressures and stresses.So let him be.Nobody has any right to make demands upon him.Maybe the reason he hasn`t signed a record contract is because their not treating him properly and maybe it is because of money and there`s nothing wrong with that.(If there`s anyone that deserves to get paid handsomely it`s Morrissey.)I`m sure that everyone here likes and wants money.And as one post reported what Morrissey said about the subject of money "It certainly doesn`t make things worse". So I`d say he was within his right`s.-Tibby How I Love All Of The Very Mozzer Things Of Life..........
    tibby -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @12:42PM (#14159)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • I'm rather proud of my own contributions to the debate in hand.

    Morrissey is great singer, and a wonderful musician. I hope he can wade through the mess and sort it all out.

    Hazard
    Anonymous -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @03:13PM (#14172)
  • Morrissey SHOULD SUE HIMSELF.

    DeB of the West Sider Riders.
    Maplefreak -- Tuesday July 03 2001, @05:49PM (#14177)
    (User #1234 Info)
    And the songs we sing, they're not supposed to mean a thing...
    • Re:I think by I Know Very Well... (Score:1) Tuesday July 03 2001, @09:15PM


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