To NME, feel free to link to any of the original stories on this site so others can see the full details and original context. Whenever I include content from other sites, including yours, I always try to give credit where it is due. Link from Matthew Fawcett:
Morrissey threatens legal action in documentary row - NME.com
Candid footage of the star on tour last year has been offered for sale on the web by Barry Derbyshire - but Moz says he's really not allowed...
Jun 30 2001 09:05:00:000AM
LEGAL MOZ!
MORRISSEY is threatening legal action against a film director over the sale of a candid documentary of the singer on tour.
The 30-minute film entitled 'South With Morrissey' was shot during the South American leg of the ex-Smith's 'Oye Esteban' tour last year, and was originally intended for TV broadcast.
However, director Barry Derbyshire recently set up his own website offering DVD and VHS copies of the documentary, and soon caught the attention of the singer. A spokesman for Morrissey said: "Derbyshire has no rights to the film - all sound and visual elements are owned by Morrissey. The availability and sale of 'South With Morrissey' is against Morrissey's wishes, and will force the inevitable legal action."
Angered by the threats, Derbyshire swiftly responded: "I have no contract with Morrissey and anyone who has followed his career will probably not be too surprised to hear this. For me it's always been about trust, not men in suits sorting out what people should or should not see."
He claims to have had a verbal agreement with Morrissey to make the film, but that numerous requests for feedback from him on the completed documentary were ignored.
The director had previously conducted a series of photo shoots with the singer, some images from which were used as backdrops on the 'Oye Esteban' tour. On his website, www.southwithmorrissey.com, he claims: "This film is not some tacky ' Moz reveals all', it is just my interpretation of events in Latin America."
Many fans responded angrily to talk of a block on the sale of the documentary through various messageboards. Some accused the singer - currently without a record deal - of a "Lars Ulrich-style" attitude in light of the Metallica drummer's fiercely anti-Napster stance, and of neglecting his fanbase of new material.
Morrissey's last UK release was 1997s 'Maladjusted', and since parting ways with Mercury has been more low-profile than ever, emerging briefly to promote the US-only 'Oye Esteban' video compilation DVD last year.
---
Update: the story is also at Yahoo! UK & Ireland:
"Morrissey threatens documentary maker with legal action" - link from m.
Related items:
it's so sad (Score:0)
I'm sure they can come to an agreement if they communicate,
give it a go?
They called it a Lars style argument... (Score:1)
(User #152 Info | http://worldofabrahan.com/)
no contract? (Score:0)
In this article it says he had a verbal agreement
with Morrissey. Yet he claims to have no contract. He should be aware that contracts
need not be in writing to be valid and enforceable.
that's an idea (Score:2, Funny)
...in the true spirit of bootleg fashion...
(User #36 Info)
Parent
Money Changes Everything (Score:1)
(User #2789 Info | http://www.morrisseymusic.com/)
Poor Poor Moz! (Score:1)
I think Moz is being a tad selfish though. I just saw an interview yesterday from 1985. Maybe you guys have seen it. Its the black and white interview in which its just him and a camera with white sealed envelopes with one word questions. Well he talked about money, and he says and I quote "Money one thing you can say about money is that if never ever makes things worse". Well I just think Moz should let this DVD go through and talk to Barry, before he goes in to court again. Hope everything turns otu ok, for Barry he seem's like an honest guy.
(User #263 Info | http://www.geocities.com/mammaryg/)
Morrissey still collaborating with the dark side (Score:1)
As revealed today, pop singer Morrissey sold his soul to the dark lord for 6 bushels of potatoes and Wendy Wu.
A DVD entitled, "south with Morrissey", a documentary detailing the singer's southward slide of morals, was halted when the documentary director failed to observe the verbal agreement as mediated by Morrissey's manager, and satan's pawn, former whitehouse representative James Baker.
Fans were outraged by the star's lack of willingness to share the work. Citing Morrissey is greedy and an all-around party pooper, they responded from their commune after a days work of growing weed on the mountain and relaxing to records of Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters played at 33 1/3 rpm.
They went on to say absolutely nothing about Lars Ulrich, as it is the opinion of this journalist they would have if they had thought about it, but were too stoned to say anything and this journalist has a deadline to meet.
"yeah, maaannn. This morrissey cat....he's just a....cat."
More intelligent and informed fans could not be reached for comment.
(User #36 Info)
oh dear (Score:0)
also, morrissey shouldn't have ignored barry when he sent the dvd for his comments and let the whole thing reach the stage that it has.
this whole thing is just depressing. it's been said a 100 times before but I'm gonna say it again; "morrissey sign a record deal, record those 20 odd songs you've written and release the flipping things!"
good lord! has there ever been a harder time to be a morrissey fan?
john steed.
An open letter to Moz (Score:3, Interesting)
Ok, why not post an open letter to Moz on this message board (maybe the manager of this site will move it to a ‘feature’ slot?) Regardless...About this whole lawsuit over the ‘South With Morrissey’ video issue...Ugh. Fame. Money. Lawsuits. I know, but this man doesn’t seem like an ‘enemy’ type. Maybe he’s just a fan with camera talent and the chance to work with you. For some reason, it ended abruptly. Hopefully it can be worked out amicably?
Regardless, the real reason for writing...I think I speak for many when I ask: Sir, why are you not releasing music? Your office is calling and leaving messages!!
It seems all we have to contend with for the past 4 years is a few concerts, lawsuits, reissue, repackage, repackage, lunch with Courtney Love updates, lawsuits, and your Los Angeles concert attendance schedule. But is it all enough?
Dont leave us with ‘Maladjusted’ as a swansong!(Trouble Loves Me, Lost, and a handful of others aside). I’d prefer ‘Kill Uncle’
Are you waiting for a major label offer? 7 digits? How about a really cool indie (like Matador?) where you can have total control and release everything you want. Do you really need 7 digits anymore? Men need their Gucci, Steven but....
Ive been an ardent fan for going on 16 years and lived by your release dates. They dont exist anymore. 4 years now and Im sure you have scads of songs to go. Can We Hear Them? You’re needed now more than ever, living in a city of Britney and Limper Bizkit.
Honorary American, man with a large forehead and a beautiful face, recluse in an amazing home, vegetarian in this horrid hot dog world! Has the reel-to-reel broken down?
A call to arms
A farewell to arms?
Darling, What are you waiting for?
“It’s not much, but I’ve been far...”
Fondest,
I know
(User #3130 Info)
Credit (Score:1)
Geez they never seem to give credit where credit is do.....
That's something that always pissed me off....Its happen before, some other site will published some story of Moz heard here first, and push it off as something their great Journalist researching minds has found...a little link would of be fine....
done ranting,
Moz cowboy
(User #236 Info | http://hometown.aol.com/mozcowboyii/myhomepage/profile.html)
How soon is now? (Score:0)
Where is David's Credit?? (Score:0)
nme smells badly. (Score:0)
Hugs, David
x
Morrissey Is No Lars Ulrich!! (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
Sources and support (Score:1)
For the sad fact that all the flaming-horror has reached the press, I just have to say that perhaps it should be a good idea to write an open letter to Morrissey, signed by his true fans, showing our support and care, and so the press could not forget his truthful fans so easily and that might minimize the harm which was already done. Perhaps we should hear what Wendy has to say about this idea, she might approve that or not, I trust that she knows what is best to do.
For the future, I really hope that people can see that what they write here, without assuming any responsibility for, may have consequences for people who are exposing themselves, and the moderators should try to control flaming in a most efficient way.
I'm really very sad that it all happened. :(
(User #284 Info)
Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Secondly, the response from the director was emailed to anybody who asked via the contact email on the www.southwithmorrissey.com site. I personally asked about the status in light of the Moz "official" comment that had been put out and was sent exactly what was posted up on this site.
Thirdly, the link to the piece on yahoo.com was originally taken from Ananova (who supply their news copy), who in turn took the story from nme (as their copy states).
Instead of complaining about the press getting to a story and www.morrissey-solo.com not being mentioned in the story, people should be congratulating David for keeping the fans informed so quickly on a topic that I'm concerned could result in those same fans losing money on a risky purchase. I know for a fact that nme haven't ripped off anything that David Tseng/ has written on this matter, but there's no question that he was the first person to get the story out to the people that'd want to know. Hats off.
Incidentally, the great job David does is acknowledged by the fact that this site is listed as the top link in the Moz section on nme.com. Check out http://www.nme.com/nme/External/Artists/Artist_Pag e/0,1226,60693,00.html. Oh, and to counter a previous wild allegation, I can vouch that the writer of the nme.com piece hasn't touched marijuana for about a year and a half. And also that the strange assertion that nobody has mentioned similarities with the kind of thing Lars Ulrich was saying over the Napster debate can be dispelled by reading both this site and others.
(ps - I've just tried to post the above message, and the system this site is built on says "please don't use so many caps. using caps is like yelling!" Looks like technology used surrounding a Moz site doesn't like nme (note the small case) either!)
(User #3134 Info)
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Many fans responded angrily to talk of a block on the sale of the documentary through various messageboards.
Which various message boards? Certainly not their own.
(User #1 Info)
Parent
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Informative)
Add that to the fact that all of the messageboards relating to Morrissey are clogged up with over-emotional crap irrelevant to anything, and you may start to see why a news piece would perhaps not bother with finding them worthy of mention. If it was a feature article, fair enough - maybe a little box out saying how to find out which sites are good for Moz news - but it's a news piece, and if you start listing websites in 350 word copy, that doesn't leave room for facts.
(User #3134 Info)
Parent
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Funny)
Really?
You insisted on giving credit for the source of some of your material, though all of it came from one place, to
various messageboards (21 Characters)
and claimed to list M-solo would take up too much, space. bullocks.
morrissey-solo (14 Characters)
morrissey-solo.com (18 characters)
www.morrissey-solo.com (22 characters)
(User #215 Info)
Parent
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Insightful)
The pages are often filled with disrespectful comments like that, unfortunatley - "over-emotional crap irrelevant to anything". Saying that is not only higly abusive but also irrational, since these words are overloaded with negative feelings themselves, and that is exactly what should be avoided here. I DO believe that people can say what they want without being rude, so PLEASE let's give it a try. Remember, above all, this is a community, whether we want it or not - let's try to keep it going, and respect Morrissey and DavidT's hard work here.
By the way, facts were made mostly because emotions throughout history, so a fact by itself is not objective reality as most suppose, being rather a product generated in time as a consequence of Reason, emotions and environment.
(User #284 Info)
Parent
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Funny)
If this attitude and policy is consistent with those of the NME, it is no wonder they are slowly going out of business.
(User #1 Info)
Parent
Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
To make matters worse, the article (which was more or less lifted directly from these pages) doesn't credit the original source of the story. And why should they? The advent of the world wide web has made publications like the NME utterly useless. In this case, South With Morrissey was announced, and Morrissey (or someone speaking for him) responded to the fans that day. Why wait a few days to read a partial version of the story in the NME? So of course the NME is not going to call attention to this site.
Furthermore, if I was the person that "wrote" the article, I would not put a link to this site either. Think of embarrassing it would be for me, the "author", to show everyone the original source. If I did that sort of "work" for a living, I would want people to think that I was writing articles, not gathering information from one source and presenting it as my own.
Did you check the link on Yahoo UK/Ireland? It says that "A spokesman for Morrissey told NME.COM: ..." Someone should let Yahoo know that they can claim that fact as their own... no need to quote the original source of the information.
P.S. - I was just checking out the content on the NME web page, and I noticed something strange. The NME's biography of Morrissey starts off with a few years of Nick Drake's career. Great content guys. :)
(User #238 Info)
Parent
emotionality vs. facts (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Why wasn't the documentary ever released on television per it's original intent?
2. Was there anyone who agreed with Morrissey and can their quote be included?
3. Should Morrissey be held accountable if the director failed to get the documentary on television?
4. Why did communications break down?
5. Why was nothing put in writing?
6. Why, in the director's original advertisement, did they neglect to mention that this wasn't a licensed product?
7. What was the original agreement?
(User #36 Info)
Parent
Re:Erm...beg to differ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Almost every time when a news source breaks a story, other respectable news outlets who pick up those stories, will refer to such as - "The Wall street Journal reported ..", the "the NYTimes ran story" etc.
"Various websites", means what, only Morrissey solo, you might as well say it.
Its common respect if your entire story is just redistrbuting someone elses work that you state that. Its very obvious that whatever the case of copyright law, the NME writer, you I guess you, is riding the coat tails of the success of this website. If this website did not exist, you would not have had that material for the story. Frankly I don't think it would have existed in any detail without this site. The man selling the DVD and the MOz spokeperson spoke to davidt intially not NME.
You added nothing to that report, insightful or otherwise that was not verbatuim taken from this site. I don't see the big deal in giving credit where credit is due. If you are getting paid collecting the work of someone else the least you can do it mention that persons efforts.
You do what you do, I imagine, because you want all the credit for yourself, and think that because the source in an internet site, it will be overlooked. You think you can get away with someone elses labor buttering your bread, without any one looking at you funny. Well you can't.
If I were David, I'd do to you exactly what you do to him, and not mention another NME article or refrence so long as use the content he discovers without giving proper credit for it.
Ya punk
(User #215 Info)
Parent
uh ohh (Score:1)
(User #249 Info)
Moz to write UK bar exam (Score:1)
(User #1034 Info)
so the story goes.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Fed Up (Score:1)
(User #1889 Info)
Sorry to interupt this item (Score:1)
(User #724 Info)
Kill Your Idols (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #3136 Info | http://www.heartlessbitches.com)
maybe (Score:0)
im just saying maybe
Praise Then Crucify (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
Lars Ulrich (Score:0)
Metallica don't want material getting to fans without them getting money.
Morrissey doesn't want material getting to fans without him getting money.
That's the point that was made, and it's valid. I can't understand why people are writing essays explaining why the two things are so different.
Good Morning, Mr Barry J Derbyshire :-) (Score:1)
You (or your buddies) are saying that Moz wants to prevent your little scummy bootleg DVD released 'cause it "is the only way he can get money right now". But I think Moz regularly receives plenty of royalties from the Worldwide sales of both Smiths and solo material... He does not need some extra cash that bad... I think for him it is a matter of principle and some written or explicitly verbalized agreement between Him and you broken... Yeah, bootlegs are a fact of life, and maybe Moz would better to ignore small-time buggers like you, Mr Barry J, but hey, don't tell us you are holier then other bootleggers and Maria Magdalena... You have a "chutzpah" to charge $29 bucks for the 30 MINUTES(!) footage of questionable quality, and Morrissey and his people may do Mr Average Mozfan a favour by explicitly distancing themselves from your 30-minutes long cinematic err... masterpiece... 'cause I doubt that this DVD has any redeeming value... Of course, I'm not god myself and maybe your DVD shows something interesting, even if against Moz wishes, but don't you agree that you didn't do your legalistic homework before releasing it for sale... A least not to try throw mud in the Morrissey direction, sell your little shady DVD in silence, there is no need to tell us about "knowing past history" of Moz or him "backstabbing" you... Essentially, you illegally took piece of something which is HIS... So Moz had 2 legit options: ignore you or stop you on the tracks... He chose the second one... And no need by you and your friends to set little cowardly flames around this messageboard... As of kids itching to shell another $29 bucks for the DVD, why not to buy some legit Moz-related memorabilia on e-Bay or in the small indie-shops instead.. I'm talking about rare LP singles, posters, badges et cetera... I think Moz deserves some respect... There are bootlegs and there are bootlegs... I have bought some Tori Amos and Iggy Pop bootleg CDs myself, but I knew that those artists don't mind those bootlegs even if they does not endorse them... But I would never buy your DVD mister, even if you will sell it to me for one buck, 'cause to buy your product is against explicit wishes of an artist, therefore it is a blatant disrespect of Moz to help you with your house downpayment.. or your brand-new car or whatever, Mr Barry J... Suggestion: why not to make Brittney Spears or Mandy Moore bootlegs... Mucho better $$$ and wider audience of 13-year-old middle-school girls... Perhaps their security people would throw you out in 3 minutes and kick you a little bit in the process (good!)... but why not to try it anyway with a hidden camera maybe... If this would fail, Mister Barry J, you could always make good money by shooting home-movies for Beverly Hills weddings and Bar Mitzvahs... I mean, I don't want you to be poor and miserable, I want you to be plump and jolly... Cheers, precious, and keep your cinematic scums elsewhere... :-)
(User #3058 Info)
Is this really about money? (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #1858 Info)
Xhris, you said it right! (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #3058 Info)
Parent
cash is a four letter word!!! (Score:1)
(User #1115 Info)
Anonymous, re: Howie Klein... (Score:1)
[email protected]
Sorry for any inconvenience!
(User #724 Info)
Hypocrites don't even realize that... (Score:0)
here's a thought (Score:1)
Have some faith, and please try not to be so quick with the tiresome slurs.
(User #1820 Info)
oh lord... (Score:1)
the only thing that saddens me is the giant void in our lives, without a new album, without news on him. I assume most of us love him. Regarding the video, well, let's get real: sooner or later, we will have this video in hands, with or without j barry. lot's of bootlegs running everywhere, why would be different now?
I have read the NME stuff, and i just am sorry for not see any mention to this site. David T is a great guy, and I had the feeling that they simply "ignored" morrissey-solo. But, quoting Morrissey: "the more you ignore me, the closer i get"...
(User #1086 Info)
Interesting.... (Score:0)
this 'release' is more appealing that the last 47 compilations put together..so of course he'd want to stifle it...
I never thought I'd make a comment like that, ever. Christ Morrissey, do something....you once said that you have an audience with a very real need...that need is more acute than ever. You DO actually have a moral responsibility to get on the stage...!
(Cue aggressive 'feedback' from self-righteous "he doesn't have to do anything for anyone types"...most of whom live in Morrissey's backyard.)
a newbie's opinion (Score:1)
If Morrissey and J. Barry had an agreement that the footage was to be made into a TV documentary, I can understand why Morrissey is upset that Barry is selling DVDs of the footage. I happen to think that $29 is a LOT of money for any DVD, let alone a bootleg. His site isn't secure, he's using a post office box...it just seems that someone who would want to go into a business venture so big as to sell a DVD would take more care in assuring the privacy and safety of his customers.
Barry already stated that Morrissey never returned any of his messages or responded to the copy he was sent. Just because Morrissey didn't respond to him didn't give Barry permission to sell the footage. Barry should have kept the footage private until he got an answer from Morrissey.
I don't agree with those people who think that Morrissey is money-hungry. Face it, the man has plenty of money. What he would get from the DVD sale wouldn't make or break him. However, he does have a right to say how his image is being used. If he agreed to something verbally, and it wasn't done in the way he agreed to it, he should fight to get it done correctly.
Another thing: if Barry got so much access to Morrissey, his staff, and the show, why is there only half an hour of footage? If it were me, I would have shot everything possible.
(User #3147 Info)
I`d Say He Was Within His Rights.... (Score:1)
Let`s face facts here this footage rightfully belongs to him and if doesn`t want it released that`s his perogative.If he chooses to block the sale of the dvd he has every right to.That doesn`t make him greedy or vindictive.It just means he standing up for himself.I don`t think this thing is about money at all.It`s about someone taking something that is rightfully yours and then making a profit from it.Like someone stealing your car and then selling it for their own financial gain.
Third as Xhris and Joe Buck said J. Barry was hired to do a job and the end results don`t belong to him.Morrissey is only standing up for himself and has every right to do so.
Last but not least Morrissey doesn`t owe us anything.Yes we love,admire and adore him ,but he`s not a machine just cranking out a product.I`m sure anything he releases has to feel right for him.Maybe he just wants to live right now and not have pressures and stresses.So let him be.Nobody has any right to make demands upon him.Maybe the reason he hasn`t signed a record contract is because their not treating him properly and maybe it is because of money and there`s nothing wrong with that.(If there`s anyone that deserves to get paid handsomely it`s Morrissey.)I`m sure that everyone here likes and wants money.And as one post reported what Morrissey said about the subject of money "It certainly doesn`t make things worse". So I`d say he was within his right`s.-Tibby How I Love All Of The Very Mozzer Things Of Life..........
(User #2713 Info)
Hazards View 2 (Score:0)
Morrissey is great singer, and a wonderful musician. I hope he can wade through the mess and sort it all out.
Hazard
I think (Score:1)
DeB of the West Sider Riders.
(User #1234 Info)