Morrissey-solo
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posted by
davidt
on Monday April 28 2003, @10:00AM
Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor that I've heard on different occasions about crew members and band from last year's tour not being paid yet? Does this have anything to do with the rumored February East Coast US dates and perhaps the UK festival dates not coming together?
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Rumor - tour crew and band from last year's tour not paid yet?
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Inappropriate (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Inappropriate (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #1807 Info)
Parent
I agree with the previous post (Score:1, Insightful)
But then again... (Score:0, Interesting)
It is relevant (Score:1)
(User #7294 Info)
Money, money, money. (Score:2, Interesting)
It's sad, sad, sad.
Money, money, money (Score:1, Insightful)
Morrissey Is A Skinflint (Score:0)
I bet Morrissey was hoping to land a record deal by the end of the year, and perhaps have a record company take some of the tour costs off his back. No record deal meant that whoever was behind the mini tour had to make ends meet.
David what are you playing at (Score:0)
If anything, if there are any developments we are less likely to find out about them - particularly if this 'story' proves untrue. Do you believe that Boz will give this site the time of day in the light of this.
I'm as frustrated as anyone about the fact that we seem to be heading for six years without an album, but the lack of activity is no justification for 'creating' news and "sticking the knife in" in this manner.
[email protected]
Oh, and I expect the NME will print this as well.. (Score:0)
Shame on you.
People VS. Steven Patrick Morrissey (Score:1)
"He's never been the type of person to reach into his pockets and pay the people around him..."
Andy Rourke
Regardless, I must admit that even though statements like this one have been coughed out many times and by many different people, it's really none of our concern. I mean really, unless he empties my wallet personally, I really could care less.
(User #1115 Info)
Unpaid (Score:3, Interesting)
Suppliers also remain unpaid thus making any further UK tours incredibly difficult
Promises made were broken, all crew members were told they would be paid in full after the Athens shows
The reality of the situation was that the money for our wages had already disappeared to the US
For those who feel this is inappropriate for posting here, people should be seen "warts and all", not just the fluffy bits that make it easier for people to hero worship
If you dont like the truth that isnt my problem or Davids'
There are several members of the crew who use this site, and one or two of the band, they all know the truth as do I
The only person paid in full was the Charlie Brown who was sensible enough to take his wages in cash from money he was dealing with after Brixton
We were lied to, cheated and robbed of wages none of us could afford to lose
Sueing Morrissey isnt an option as the debt for most us is in the UK and he is a US resident
Morrissey has already shown how easy it is to avoid UK court rulings against him as not only the Joyce judgement remains unpaid but others to, one substantially larger than the amount owed to Joyce
Process servers were part and parcel of the UK leg of the tour
Any of my points are easy to confirm, simply email Ian Montone in NY and ask him
And anyone not being able to stomach the truth needs to get out more and face the real world, like the crew member who was almost evicted on return due to his inability to pay his rent
Who said this about Moz? (Score:1, Interesting)
It's not very suprising to me to hear about these things about Morrissey. No ones perfect, everyone has they're flaws. We're all human and so is Morrissey. This rumour could be true or false. I won't say it's true but I won't also say it's false. The thing is we don't work in the Moz camp so we don't know if this is true or not. So we all shouldn't really jump sides on these type of situations.
(User #841 Info)
UK dates (Score:2, Interesting)
Joyce relentless pursues his judgement against Morrissey, as the last tour proved
At every turn court orders were slapped on anyone likely to be handling any money associated with Morrissey which is why promoters were changed so frequently to avoid paying the judgement
To make it more difficult for Joyce to freeze any payments made to Morrissey, dates will only be confirmed at the last minute
This means Joyce has to obtain an order and get it served before Morrissey plays or is paid
Either that or no date will be confirmed until he has been paid in advance and court orders become academic
As I said previously, there are also other creditors with judgements against him one of which is substantially larger than that obtained by Joyce
When you see him confirmed on the bill you will know he has his money, and yes there are serious talks and even one tentative agreement about him playing a UK festival
Just dont expect to get much advance notice!
Deadbeat Daddy (Score:0, Troll)
Now I'm pretty sure ther was a tour manager (Score:0, Funny)
What was the point of this? (Score:1)
"I was told that Morrissey was spotted making love to a fire truck outside Penn Station in New York whilst eating an unpeeled banana and wearing green and red polka-dotted boxer shorts and a Latrell Sprewell NY Knicks jersey. Obviously this means he is still very much a vegan but not opposed to the blending of free love and commercialized sport."
Utterly silly. Why a fan of Moz running a pro-Moz site would let this rumor fly is beyond me. Terribly unhelpful.
(User #2464 Info)
I am stumped.... (Score:2, Funny)
(User #762 Info)
Useless (Score:0)
What are we supposed to do- oh, Moz doesnt pay his crew, Im gonna burn all my cds and tear up my autographed photo of The Smiths.
C'mon this is ludicrousness!
Kick Moz when he falls down... (Score:1)
To the anonymous crew members posting: Why don't you want to reveal to others who you are again? I'm sorry, I know something about an email and being bombarded by individual questions, but god, there has to be more to it. I mean, why are you even here if you're so up tight about Morrissey at the moment?
Exploiting Morrissey at a website that's dedicated to him is just so damn silly. We know he's not a God. You don't have to show us the black feathers flapping under the God-like white feathers that we so cherish (yes, sarcasm, please). We know the man is human.
Oh well...Kick 'em when they fall down, right? I don't know, this all seems a bit unfair to me. It really looks like this whole thing is a set up to start something that is NONE OF THE FANS CONCERN. Morrissey's financial dealings are a bit on the personal side, I think. Unless, of course, you're mike joyce. By God, everybody will know about it then. If you've any connection to Morrissey, mike will make sure that you're hunted down, stripped, and you're pockets are emptied. All because he...uh, what did he do? Oh yeah, banged his drums.
Yours Truly,
The Troll That Lives Under Morrissey's Bridge
(User #827 Info)
Boz Must Have Been Paid... (Score:0)
Do you think Westman really stole the money, or... (Score:2, Interesting)
Flame me if you want. I'm just being devil's advocate for a moment.
Re:Do you think Westman really stole the money, or (Score:2, Interesting)
I only met him (Westman) a few times so I can not vouch for how trustworthy or untrustworthy he is. Westman had worked with Morrissey since the Kill Uncle days. Take a look at the "Live in Dallas" video you'll see him standing to the side of the stage. (Tall thin guy, balding hair)
I know that Morrissey truly believes he was ripped off by Westman. He fired off some very angry faxes at several Oye Esteban crew members just after the tour ended. If I remember right, these faxes were handwritten and said, "GARY WESTMAN STOLE MY MONEY!" I know, it almost sounds laughable or even childish, but sadly it's true. It was one of those moments where you just wanted to roll your eyes and say, "Oh my god, He's crazy."
There were several key crew members that supported Gary -- or at least believed him to be an honest enough chap. Ultimately those who sided with Gary were dismissed -- dismissed is the wrong word really. The tour was already over. Those who sided with Gary were cut out of the inner circle. They were not re-hired for the 2002 tour -- although this is not to suggest that was the only reason they were not re-hired. It was, however, quite a big factor. Debbie Dannell & John Wynne are two of the people who I am speaking of.
It should also be noted that there were crew members who sided with no-one on this matter. At least one was rehired for the latest tour (temporarily at least) but others were not. So it is possible that a few years down the line maybe this wasn't such a big deal afterall.
Did Morrissey not pay his crew on this tour? I don't know. Ask Johnny Bridgwood if he's gotten paid from the Maladjusted tour yet?
The 1999 Oye Esteban tour personel got paid in Las Vegas on the last night of the 1999 tour.
One more interesting piece of tour gossip. Last week I ran into some musicians in a pub in East London. Over a pint these blokes told me that they had just met Mike Hinc (Morrissey's UK Manager) Anyhow, Morrissey is Mike's only client. Mike was chatting with these fellows about how Morrissey so honourable that he doesn't let opening bands pay to join his tour. OH REALLY?
Now David Tseng, this is the part where you're supposed to dig up that story from Feb/March 2000 where it was revealed that Sack paid $10,000 to join the Oye Esteban tour.
-Eric G. [EG]
(User #5373 Info | http://www.mbendi.co.za/cyeqmps2.gif)
Parent
Re:Do you think Westman really stole the money, or (Score:2, Informative)
His percentage was taken off the top before anyone else got theirs as agents do
He is one of a very very small number of people who maintains a business relationship with Morrissey and one of the few people he cannot stiff
If an artist ever stiffed an agent in the UK the doors would bang shut so hard and fast it would make your head spin, and yes agents do have that much power
He also has the power to stop Morrissey playing anywhere he represents him should he be dumb enough to try and dump him in any way except by mututal consent
Hinc is highly unlikely to say anything bad about his one cash cow is he?
Parent
Poor Moz (Score:0)
You reap what you sow (Score:1)
And I wish people would stop laying into Joycey and Rourkey- they are only after monies they are PERFECTLY ENTITLED TO- The performing royalties from the Smiths SHOULD have been split 4 ways from the start like in any other band, Moz and Marr stitched them up royally.
(User #7728 Info)
Scottish blood, catalan heart... (Score:0)
money changes everything (Score:1)
He's jepordising his chances of touring (and making more money) in the future
(User #7728 Info)
Well (Score:0)
No doubt in my mind.... (Score:2, Informative)
This much I can tell you - he's notorious for not paying his salaries, and when he does, he pays in cash so as to not get nailed with taxes and such.
I was told a very, very interesting story by a high-up member of the crew about Moz and one of his own bandmates coming after him for the money he was owed....after hearing said story, my guess is that a large part of why Gary stopped playing bass for a while with Moz is because of his financial misdealings.
(User #8164 Info)
Please. (Score:1, Insightful)
I do think he would prefer to be remembered as the genious he is rather than for being evil and moneygrabbing...
So please, Morrissey, if it is true, pay these people what they have worked to earn and I think everyone will be a lot happier, and maybe the recordcompanies wont be so damn afraid of you. You already are a wealthy man, and do - as far as I know - don't even have a fanily to support or pass it on to.
Money isn't everything, but it does change everything...
In the days when you were hopelessly poor... (Score:1)
I also think it is wrong to attack David for posting this rumour. It's interesting. It is newsworthy. It's gossip, it's got us talking (arguing!)
(User #2329 Info | http://lightupvirginmary.blogspot.com/)
"Profits" from the last tour - some amendments... (Score:2, Interesting)
No, I don't think Morrissey's old tour manager (Gary Westman) stole the tour profits, but this is all old news and doesn't matter much anyhow.
After the Oye Esteban tour, after everyone was paid -- and after Morrissey spent several weeks on vacation staying at 5 star hotels that, that had eaten away most of the profits.
I only met Gary Westman a few times so I can not vouch for how trustworthy or untrustworthy he is. Westman had worked with Morrissey since the Kill Uncle days. Take a look at the "Live in Dallas" video you'll see him standing to the side of the stage. (Tall thin guy, balding hair). It seems weird that Westman would rip off Moz during the Oye Esteban tour. Why not rip him off during the Kill Uncle tour? -- at least that tour made some money -- actually I suppose Westman was only a production manager then so maybe he didn't have the access to the money. It just seems strange to me that a guy that spent 9 years working with Moz would suddenly want to rip him off. Then again, Morrissey has jilted people he's known longer than that.
Morrissey truly believes he's been ripped off
He is absolutely convinced of it. Moz fired off some very angry faxes at several Oye Esteban crew members just after the tour ended. If I remember right, these faxes were handwritten and said, "GARY WESTMAN STOLE MY MONEY!" I know, it almost sounds laughable or even childish, but sadly it's true. It was one of those moments where you just wanted to roll your eyes and say, "Oh my god, He's crazy."
There were several key crew members that supported Gary -- or at least believed him to be an honest enough chap. Ultimately those who sided with Gary were dismissed -- dismissed is the wrong word really. The tour was already over. Those who sided with Gary were cut out of the inner circle. They were not re-hired for the 2002 tour -- although this is not to suggest that was the only reason they were not re-hired. It was, however, quite a big factor. Debbie Dannell & John Wynne are two of the many people who I am speaking of.
It should also be noted that there were crew members who sided with no-one on this matter. At least one was rehired for the latest tour (temporarily at least) but others were not. So it is possible that a few years down the line maybe this wasn't such a big deal afterall.
Did Morrissey not pay his crew on this tour? I don't know. Ask Johnny Bridgwood if he's gotten paid from the Maladjusted tour yet?
The 1999 Oye Esteban tour personel got paid in Las Vegas on the last night of the 1999 tour. They were paid in cash. The whole tour, in fact was dealt with in cash. There are two reasons for the cash tour. 1. So that Moz doesn't have to pay taxes on the money. 2. Moz's reputation in dealing with promoters especially regarding cancelled concerts / concerthalls was so bad (at least at that point in 1999) that many venues wanted their money up front.
Charlie Brown: The jumped-up pantry boy A previous poster on these boards said that Charlie Brown was one of the few people to get paid from the tour -- is it because he's more clever than the other crew members and asked for his money in advance? Maybe. I think a better question is: What is the nature of the relationship between Morrissey & Charlie Brown? He was one of the very few people who were on the Oye Esteban tour and the 2002 tour. In 1999 he was a stage manager. He set up Spikes drums for all I know. Actually he's an alright bloke, but I've only met him a couple times so who knows. So somehow he made the jump from setting up spike's drums to being Moz's personal lackie. -- But wait! Moz already has a personal assistant. Alain's ex girlfriend -- but that is another whole story. So what exactly did Charlie Brown do on this tour? His title may have been 'assistant tour manager' but from what I know he was nothing more than a glorified Peter Hogg. If you still have your Kill Uncle Programme guide take a look at Peter Hogg'
(User #5373 Info | http://www.mbendi.co.za/cyeqmps2.gif)
Re:Alain's Ex-Girlfriend (Score:2, Insightful)
From what I hear he it was one of the things on the tour that was quick to rile him up -- then again he is Alain, and he's pretty dumb and he's easily excitable about almost anything.
I heard he was not in good spirits at the beginning of the tour because of the ex-factor, but I don't know if that is true or not.
I don't know much about the nature of their (Alain & his ex) personal relationship, professionally they dealt with each other in a civil manner.
Maybe for revenge Alain should have hired Jake as his personal assistant. Wonder how Moz would feel about that?
Also, I will have to say that being able to put "Morrissey" on your resume really IS NOT that impressive. It's only impressive to other Morrissey fans and a handful of musicians. I think that is because Morrissey doesn't have the kind of name recognition that Britney Spears, Janet Jackson, REM, have. So maybe if you're potential boss is an 80's fan he'll have a clue and raise at least one eye brow that would suggest, "nice work." And I suppose if he's really clued in, his next queston will be, "Did you get paid?"
(User #5373 Info | http://www.mbendi.co.za/cyeqmps2.gif)
Parent
A flippant comment (Score:1)
(User #7960 Info)
An Idea: (Score:0)
just an idea.
A better idea (Score:1)
I suggest that the unpaid British Tour crew come together and for a small sum of money hire the lads at Ambitious-Outsiders.com to stand outside Morrissey's house with subpoena-in-hand.
Thay way Chris will happily get to meet Moz again (and brag about it on his site) AND the crew will get their writ through.
And just for the irony Chris should wear a "low-cut blouse" when doing so.
EG
(User #5373 Info | http://www.mbendi.co.za/cyeqmps2.gif)
Who Cares...? (Score:0)
This story means the end of this site (Score:0)
Those close to Morrissey will never again give David the scoop on any future developments..
And if I was Morrissey - reading the comments of those of you who have taken the side of a few posters who could so easily be ill-wishing hoaxer - well, I'd lose any inclination to tour or record anything for your pleasure ever again. I suspect this will be the greater loss to many who haven't dignified this 'story' with a post.
In any event, I suspect that many of you have turned into sad sheep who are awe-struck by Coldplay...
Re:This story means the end of this site (Score:2, Insightful)
As for this being the end of the site, far from it
I think it could well be the beginning
Its about time the sycophants who think this site is their property had a reality check and this is it
Morrissey isnt the whiter than white, holier than thou person they delude themselves that he is
He is a very talented musician and performer
That doesnt mean to say he doesnt screw people over for money and it isnt only band and crew he has done it to
I've verified who I am to David, if I hadnt done that to his satisfaction my posts wouldnt have made it to the board
That takes this out of rumour
Unless of course someone wants to step up and call me and the rest of the crew liars or ill wishing hoaxers
What scoops are you referring to by the way?
I know for a fact one "scoop" posted here by a band member was the biggest load of crap I have ever read having personally been present at the incident described, and was disseminated at Morrisseys behest
I am sure the board will sorely miss scoops like those
David asked a question and was given answers and responses
Knowing he was going to take flak from doing so, he took the bull by the horns
Its a shame others cant respect him for having the courage to do it
This subject has provoked some sensible debate and given an insight into touring with Morrissey
Its also give a platform to some sycophantic ostriches who need to get out more and face the real world
End of rant
Parent
Re:This story means the end of this site (Score:3, Informative)
(User #1 Info)
Parent
Oh no..... (Score:2)
This should have been dealt with in the proper manner and between the respective parties, not some kind of kangeroo court!
This website lately has seemed to take great delight in posting negative stories and rumours, giving the frustrating circumstances concerning Morrissey maybe this was to be expected. I have a lot of respect for the people who run this superb site, i guess with the distant stance and aloofness Morrissey takes it must be hard to keep up the enthusiasm. Having said that i hope it's not going to turn into a negative place, i love this site...we all come here for the same reasons, or do we?
I'm just so fed up with all the crap now as i'm sure most people are, if people are owed money then i hope they finally receive what is rightfully theirs.
But surely hearing one side of the story can't be a good thing, people seem to be taking pleasure in digging up past negative stories. This is a fan site and as much as Morrissey's actions should be questioned, like anybody elses i hope it doesn't turn into a platform for Moz haters, if so go to the NME' forums, i'm sure they'll love to have you!
and no matter how bad this gets i'll never listen to Coldplay and some of the other tripe that's around!
take care!
(User #3917 Info)
Alright, Dumpling! How much? (Score:1, Funny)
Who's with me? Alright!
PS ~ I am not on crack.
Wouldn't you think that ........... (Score:1)
(User #264 Info)
Reissue, repackage (Score:1)
(User #7425 Info)
I can believe it (Score:1)
(User #6676 Info)
question for tour crew member....? (Score:1)
Second, you seem to have no problems going into pretty detailed specifics about the tour or other people involved with it, but you are not saying whom you actually are. What is your name? You have mentioned other like Charley B, and Perry, but don't you feel that as you have brought their names into this, you should also involve your own? I do. If you are going to make these allegations so public, I think you owe it to us(as well as Morrissey, although he may already know exactly whom you are) to give your real name and position on the crew. Also, you were making it seem like the majority of the crew has had problems getting paid for their services. Were you on the US leg of the tour, or the European leg, or both? I find it hard to believe that if the MAJORITY of the crew have not been paid, nothing would have been done about it by now, nor would you be posting such information on this site. What about other long time crew members like Paul, etc.? Did they all have problems getting paid as well? I am just curious, since you seem to be so adament about how he fucked the crew over.
Again, I am not trying to dispute what you are saying, but I hope you can understand that I think we all have a right to know exactly what you did for the tour, since you have choosen to bring this all out in the open anyway. Also, what are the reasons for you not getting paid? I am sure that you know. What were you told? When the money did not come through, you must have demanded to know why? You would not just have said "That sucks" and take a drive up the coast to cool off. What reasons were given to you? I really hope that things work out the best for everybody, but I really do feel that since you brought this up here, you owe some of us a little more of an explanation as to why you chose to do it in this type of forum. My two cents.......
(User #762 Info)
Unpaid (Score:3, Interesting)
I have not mentioned Perry at all only Charlie Brown
I have not posted anything before on this subject and have only done so in response to the request for confirmation by David Tseng
I do, however suspect that at least one other crew member is posting here and possible one of the band to (Hi guys:)) just by some of the information in the postings
As for Morrissey reading this here, he is already aware of crew feelings having had those conveyed to him by Ian Montone and others some considerable time ago
As for what have any of us done to get paid, the tour manager simply stopped responding to any requests for information 3 weeks after the tour ended, no returned calls and his mobile phone number changed
Ian Montone, Morrisseys "representative" in NY responds occasionally and simply says he is out of pocket too and is unable to assist
The tour accountants are based in London, and that is a whole different story
Money was collected on the tour in both cash and other forms of financial collateral
This was done in order to evade the Joyce writs and others
The finances were then fed to the accountants little by little, with "other" people paid directly or indirectly by the tour manager thus giving the accountants little control over all of the tour money or even giving them posession of it
Having spoken to the tour accountants to see if they could shed any light on the matter we have all been told the tour account with them is empty and no further funds are likely to be forthcoming
The tour accountants also remain unpaid in their own words
The latest information I have speaking directly to other tour crew and even band members is that they remain short by varying amounts, none of which are small or inconsequential
The sole reason for us not being paid was no funds are available, not bad for a tour that sold out everywhere is it?
Noone ever complained about my work on the tour, or, from what I know, others work. There were certainly no complaints about the bands performance
Once again I will make the point as to why I posted here, David Tseng ASKED if anyone could confirm what he had heard, I simply posted here and confirmed it, no other reason
I didnt start this thread, the simple exercise of reading back will show you that
As for trying to alienate Moz from his fans, I wont even bother gracing that with an answer
David Tseng courageously, to my mind, asked a question, I answered it, if people dont like the answers stop reading the thread
Simple isnt it?
And no I havent given up on getting paid, nor have others, and who in their right mind thinks Morrissey would pay up because of what other people think?
Especially people on here
He has shown his contempt for the judicial system by consistently evading paying judgements against him
Numerous judgements not just the one obtained by Joyce
I am aware of others taking steps to recover there money, myself and several suppliers have asked them to include the amounts owed to us in their efforts and they have agreed
The problem when similar incidents have occurred in the past is information was not passed around so people subsequently working for him didnt know
what had transpired
Now EVERYONE in the industry knows, and that has nothing to do with this board
Morrissey will find it hard to find crew, suppliers and promoters especially in the UK
People are fed up with Joyce hitting them with court orders and process servers turning up as a result of Morrisseys singular failure to pay his debts, even though he has the money
People cant be bothered with all the hassle of shuffling money around or having to pay him up front, getting hit by process servers et al for the paltry amount of money they make as a result
Contrary to popular belief the artist DOES get
Parent
Cue tiny violins for ignorant roadies (Score:0)
Firstly, whether this story should be on the site or not.
Yes, definitely yes. I love a good gossipy read...!
So some roadies didn't get paid. Well, boo hoo. I wouldn't like to say "it's your own fault", but... come on! Moz has left a trail of musos and crew people unpaid for 20 years, for goodness' sake! It's well documented. The fact that a TV doc on the Smiths (Young Guns) spent more time on the financial grievances than on the music should give you some kind of clue...! So learn the lesson. Calling Alain and Boz "thick" is a bit rich. They've been with Moz for ten years and know the deal. Moz is a great artist famous for not paying people he works with. That's a given.
If you're offered the chance to work with Moz, and are counting on getting paid, ask for cash in hand up front or refuse your services before you lift a drum stick or flight case.
If you didn't know that, then, well, that's probably why you're a roadie and not a rocket scientist.
Let's finish this (Score:0)
I don't think Moz is deliberately nasty or evil, just a bit, er, vain and flakey. That's the whole point of his character and art, after all. It's just when applied to money matters, it's not so lovable, and I do feel sorry for the unpaid guys.
I just want Joyce to lay off, all these people to get satisfied, so we the fans can get on with new Moz tours and records. Will that happen? Well, perhaps it might with this new barrage of angry unpaid workers. And that WILL be a good thing for all.
Come on, Moz, end it (Score:0)
I think if Moz has the money, he should pay up, simple as that. If that means paying Mr Joyce first, then, well, he should. Moz just can't go on like this, not if he has the money.
I can't help thinking that the real victors are the chuffing lawyers - the common overpaid enemy!
Come on, boys! (Score:1)
every show would sell out, and the interest it would generate in the music press would surely lead to record labels falling over themselves to sign Moz up.
But nothing's ever that simple in the world of Morrissey. sigh.
(User #7728 Info)
No regrets (Score:0)
I'm not defending Morrissey (unsurprisingly he's apparently a miserable devil!) but just thought I'd enter into the great heated debate!
Overall I had a great laugh with the tour gang, but if anyone wants to pay me more money that's fine by me!
Cheers.
P.S. No new dates in the pipeline. Dunno about any new record deals.
ok (Score:0)
Quack (Score:0)
Morrissey treats animals better then humans (Score:0)
.... the truth and nothing but .... (Score:0)
Starting rumours like this, total untruths, leaves a sour taste. They really deserve absolute and total disgust.