posted by davidt on Thursday June 28 2001, @09:00AM
As Morrissey-solo has always been an open forum and I would like to keep it as such, here is J. Barry's statement, in response to the previous article: "'South With Morrissey' - Morrissey's response" (June 26):
It is true that the name on my passport is Barry J. Derbyshire, but as a film-maker I had problems in the United States with the pronunciation of my surname so I used the name J.Barry, it's not a disguise. In terms of the legal position, I have no contract with Morrissey and anyone who has followed his career will probably not be too surprised to hear this. Anyway, for me it's always been about trust, not men in suits sorting out what people should or should not see. However, to avoid confusion let me say that anyone who orders the DVD will either receive one or will be fully refunded within 28 days of their order. If you want a refund now, please email [email protected].
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sounds oh so familiar (Score:0)
When will he grow up? (Score:1)
(User #864 Info | http://www.bozboorer.com/)
Lawyers be damned! (Score:1)
(User #1259 Info | http://www.overtherhine.com/)
And I also believe what you say in regards to Morrissey not responding to you until the last minute.
If he is that upset over the DVD because of the money, I think that he should release something on his own and quit his complaining.
On meeting Moz...... (Score:0)
what's that written on the photographs? (Score:2, Interesting)
So, the guy-with-some-other-name has never bothered with legal issues, being so superior to that, but never minded that people believed that the copyright of the photographs belonged to him or to his site????
Ah, Morrissey, I'm so glad, I knew you were right all the time!!!
(User #284 Info)
this is interesting (Score:1)
However, i would hope someone amongst either side has proof of what they are saying. Morrissey can't simply claim to own the images on the film because he waved at the camera, and I don't exactly know what Moz was thinking would happen to the footage after someone had flown all that way to film the concert and be allowed to have personal access to many things that even the girls of moztour.com and moz-solo couldn't get a hold of. I would have hoped after the legal debacle of what happened with not getting it in writing with Joyce and Rourke he would have learned to be more careful about these sorts of things.
Somebody fucked up. Who it was, we don't know, although, J. Barry could have done something to protect himself by getting everyone to sign waivers. Business is business, folks, and if they refuse to sign the legalese, then you don't even bother picking up your camera and flying to south america. I dont' care who it is coz there are many sharks out there. Although if it is true that this guy tried to contact Moz, Morrissey should learn at this point that if he doesn't get someone to deal with it early enough on, you are going to end up with messes like this. If you ignore problems, they don't disappear. They get worse and worse.
But neither side makes a whole lot of sense. I'm sorry. Both of you screwed up.
(User #36 Info)
Dear Morrissey. (Score:0)
Knock, knock.. (Score:1)
Where are you Morrissey?
(User #2747 Info)
so which is it? (Score:0)
first he says everyone who bought one will get one, then he says that maybe only david t. and morrissey will see it.
is it just me or is this guy a flake?
J Barry a question (Score:0)
Is it all about money?
this charming man (Score:1)
(User #2789 Info | http://www.morrisseymusic.com/)
release the DVDs (Score:1)
(User #1665 Info | http://www.cherryplucker.com/)
I don't see the problem. (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone went on tour with Morrissey, and with the permission of Steven M himself, filmed what he saw. After which, Morrissey balked at releasing the film, so the filmmaker is releasing on his own. Its not an official release, it’s an all access bootleg.
Morrissey, his lawyers, management, whatever, don't want this DVD released, either by itself, or without their control. Ok. The lawyer even posts a message on M-solo, saying so much, even imploring us not to buy it. That’s within their rights, and Morrissey should express his opinions when he feels strongly about something. I don’t see the problem.
Morrissey if you don't want this film released, of course you should not have allowed it to be filmed. If you have a real legal leg to stand on, than stop its release. I won't hold it against you. Of course you know it will seep out, just because it exists. You can however hamper it, increase the value of it, make it harder to buy. By all means, if it’s your legal right, than do so.
When an artist ask the fans to do something, whether it’s Free Tibet or not buy a DVD, fans should not blindly follow their orders. Anyone who tells you different is wrong. You are a fan, not a dog. You should think about what the artist said and decide for yourself, how you feel about something and whether you agree with the artist.
I am glad the Morrissey spokesperson told me that this DVD is illegal and that he thinks I should not buy it, let me see if I agree…
When I buy something the main thing I am looking for, is the product WORTH the price. There is of course, the usual, is the seller usury, was something harmed to make the product, was the product stolen, etc. I guess this is where some fans are making a connection.
They are saying, YES! The film is stolen images of Morrissey and therefore its morally wrong to buy it. Just so everyone knows, morals, aren’t and don't necessarily always follow laws. With that said, I don't view this film as being stolen, or that someone is being harmed by it being released.
A concert happened, it was allowed to be filmed. If this person doesn’t release it, is Morrissey going to release it? To me bootlegs are like museum pieces, artifacts, recordings of history. Thank one and all that someone, somewhere was an entrepreneur who recorded the many Smiths bootleg shows that exist. Thank goodness. If not for those who either through greed or love recorded those Smiths concerts, all record of those nights would be lost in the minds of only those in attendance. No bootlegs are good and this is a bootleg.
This isn't someone on a corner selling a bloody gold chain, its not stolen goods, in anything but the legal sense. It’s not a personal home video, it was a public concert. Why be shy about buying it? Because a spokesperson for Morrissey said I shouldn’t buy it?
Personally I don't see any quandary buying the DVD.
The one thing that did make my blood boil, the one thing that made curse to high hell was this line
“I ask Morrissey-solo NOT to promote this film”
What the fuck is that all about?
Preach to me regarding Morrissey wishes about silly legal and finance issues, but don’t ever, ever go any further and imply and any blame or slight of hand, on the website that has done more to more to sell and encourage the music, image and concerts of Morrissey than anyone. What gall! I swear, if Morrissey himself said this I’d feel the same. Here you have this site, the people who run it, who visit, all day wasting our youth away talking about and celebrating “Morrissey”. We never get a personal message from the messiah, which is fine, really. Yet when the one message we get from some spokesperson, has the nerve to try and tell this site what their content should be, well that pisses me off.
Seriously, it’s an insult if I ever heard one.
If I was Morrissey, right now I’d be laying off my spokesperson, and writing an apology letter to David.
(User #215 Info)
go for it barry (Score:0)
Do you realise.... (Score:0)
I Love Morrissey More Than Life!!! (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
Hazards View (Score:0)
For me, the possibly delightful prospect of watching Morrissey during a wonderful series of concerts would be such an amazing musical moment - especially since the lack of substancial material from the late 90's onwards.
I'd have thought that on first inspection, Morrissey would be pretty upset with the overall quality from the stills. Goodness knows what the rest of the film is like. The whole point to this is that Morrissey is not some jumped up singer with a crap band. The man deserves so much better. Is all that we are going to remember from such an eventful series of concerts (and hard work) this insignificant product ?
I'm sorry that my views are so destructive for the poor guy involved, but it's so hard to put down anything which could be seen to be positive. What a wonderfully wasted opportunity.
Morrissey, as a total professional, must be surrounded by real idiots to get himself into
this position. I can't think of anything that is such as big a kick in the face as this - to all the support team around him. I don't know
if he was doing all the work himself around this time but I really doubt it.
I don't care! (Score:0)
Just send me the damned DVD I have ordered, and make it quick!
Investigatin' (Score:1, Interesting)
It's not a crime to use a Mail Boxes Etc. for a business address. ("Suite" my ass, however. "Box," just "Box.") If you're buying a bootleg you probably expect nothing less. But it does make the seller's response seem even more disingenuous than it did the first time I read it. As if he doesn't know he's sketchy. If it's "all about trust," well, then I guess it's about trusting a guy not to run off with your money, despite a pseudonym, a euphemistic mailing address, no film credits, and a probably meaningless company name. You only have to wait 28 days to find out for sure. It's probably fine.
Also, I think this is very different from a bootleg -- an audience or soundboard recording -- because of the matter of access. I'm not surprised Morrissey didn't have a contract with him. He has no film work to his name, or if he does he is keeping quiet about it. Morrissey wouldn't just give me a film contract either. It's routine for people in that position to work on spec, meaning "see what you come up with and if it's any good, we'll talk." Morrissey gave Barry an extraordinary opportunity that also carried some risk. Whether that was wise or not, it was generous.
So it didn't work out. That doesn't mean you act like you were doing Morrissey a favor by filming your "personal interpretation" of his work. It doesn't mean you sell that work as if you weren't selling him without consent.
He's obviously put a lot of work into his film, but I just don't feel J. Barry has earned my $29. No amount of misused, hijacked anti-corporate rhetoric will change that.
Let's put this in perspective. (Score:0)
The only good thing about all this is that we seem to be pretty well monitored by moz's web slaves.Or even by himself.
Very Credible (Score:1)
(User #3119 Info)
morrissey can be a real prick (Score:0)
mr derbyshire i am imploring you (Score:1)
p.s. why was a dvd released entitled Oye Esteban? it had absolutely nothing to do with the tour. the fans want more!!
(User #3120 Info | http://www.geocities.com/sashaisme)
(User #508 Info)
Listen Up Foo's (Score:0)
Everyone is overlooking something: Morrissey did not know what form the film would take when he allowed Mr. Mars Bar to come to South America with him.
They probably made a private agreement. Morrissey had he could film -- and if Morrissey approved of it -- then sell it. So it was filmed -- but it was crap, in Morrissey's eyes. Really, how impressive was that 30 sec. clip? It seemed pretty poor.
So Morrissey is totally in the right. And Mr. Mars Bar is upset because his work didn't pass muster, and now is trying to force it through against the original agreement.
A new song? (Score:0)
Questions for those with high Morrissey IQs (Score:1)
please help the cause
(User #151 Info)
A bond of trust has been abused (Score:2, Insightful)
Then what was the point of bringing Barry to film, what did Moz tell him, hey Barry film me and the rest of my band and crew, and then just store it away somewhere in some vault because were not going to show the world what you filmed. Sounds a bit ridculous to me. I wonder if Morrissey even paid the guy to film. All in all Morrissey is just being a stubborn butthead about it, and he should just let the Barry guy release it, at least he'll get half the doe of what the dvd/video makes. What is he so worried about this dvd, does it show something about him that he doesnt want us fans to see about himwe don't, I'm just wondering why he doesn't want it released, and don't say because the guy is making money off his image and art and that he took advantage of Morrissey, plenty of people make money off his image and art, and have taken advantage of him, note john Rogan, and he never does a thing about it. So I don't think he should now and that my final say on this matter.
Also for those fans that aren't gonna buy, well hey it's your loss
(User #841 Info)
Trying once more (Score:1)
There are several levels by which property is assigned to an artist. There is the right of selling, the right of producing and of course the right of creating.
1) The right of selling is ensured to the commerce, they can legally sell what was produced by a label or record company in this case.
I think that is about this point that most people are angry here, but they should not anyway because I don't believe that's the issue Morrissey is worried about. As I develop my thought I hope that is made clearer. For the while I say that it is obvious that bootlegs cannot be sold in any legal way, for as Joe and others have already said, the whole thing is legally forbidden from the start - the use of cameras and tape records at concerts I mean.
2) The right of producing is allowed from the artist to some record company or video producer through a contract. For instance, as much as people didn't like that compilation, still the rc had all rights to produce it because they had a contract.
3) The "right" of creating is not a right by itself because it's obvious and self-evident. Still, legally there must be such a right because otherwise people can steal IDEAS. Stealing ideas is much worse than any situation named before, because the person who stole them can make whatever they want with what they legally own as an idea (or art, that is an expression of an idea).
Now, let's see if I put my point straight: for all you who are angry because you think that Morrissey bothered about the first point I mentioned, I'd recommend that you think twice before accusing him. I don't think that's what is troubling him at all. As I said in my prior post, I went to that site and there I noticed that in the pictures the name of the that site was written, as if the pictures were property of that site. That violates the second and perhaps even the third point I mentioned, rather than the first one. I feel that this guy wanted to make a bootleg, and to that Morrissey never bothered - what he bothered about, though, was the insinuation that the site owned the pictures and perhaps also the video (can't say, didn't see it and have NO intentions to buy it). So, the guy wanted to create a bootleg that had a copyright - but that is IMPOSSIBLE, that is an absurd, unless Morrissey had sold to him such righs, I believe. That would not be stealing Morrissey's money, that would be stealing his IDEA and rights over it! Now, before you believe in everything that guy is saying in his post, please go to that site, check the pictures and see if what I am saying is true. Then ask yourselves the same question I asked in my first post here: if the guy never cared about legal issues, why did he care to write the name of his site on the photographs, as if they belonged to him? To own the film is not the same as owning the idea of the film, and he certainly does not own the idea of the tour, Morrissey owns that! And by owning that, Morrissey has all rights over what he created! So, once more: making a bootleg is COMPLETELY different from wanting this bootleg to have a copyright! If he had such copyright, just that guy would have rights over the tour, can't you see that???
(User #284 Info)
(User #1813 Info)
Money changes everything... (Score:1)
(User #1115 Info)
Nothing to declare...... (Score:0)
Barry Island? (Score:0)
Also does anyone want a quality copy of the DVD or VHS for £5 or $10(I will make no profit.)
Post your interest here and I may supply contact details depending on the response.
Don`t Forget The Song`s That........ (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
"heaven knows i'm miserable now".
A message for the open-minded (Score:2, Interesting)
This post is for those who don't automatically assume the worst from Morrissey. For those who don't jump to the very worst conclusion and charge him of things such as greed, arrogance, self-centeredness, unkindness, conceit and whatever other unfounded accusations. For those of you whose hearts have been touched by Morrissey, I want you to rest assured that your hero is in every way the man you've always imagined him to be. He is pure wit, unfailing kindness and consideration, a poet by nature, a shoulder to weep on, and a truly inspirational, kindred spirit. Don't let these bastards upset you with their cruel, insipid and untrue remarks. Know also that Morrissey possesses one characteristic that always seems to get passed over in favor of "pope of mope" brandishment: His ilimitable humor and charm. I know this because I am his friend, or "that Asian girl" as I've been referred to many times.
Los Angeles, CA
(User #1681 Info)
Re:A message for the open-minded (Score:2, Insightful)
(User #820 Info)
Re:A message for the open-minded (Score:2, Insightful)
I was just looking at some of the 'insightful' posts you, aurore george, "the Asian girl", friend of Morrissey, made in the past.
Such as the first one back in October, titled
"You Fucking Idiots".
Where you inform the fans who complained they couldn’t take a picture with Morrissey, that we should be happy Morrissey flew to NY to see, and I quote, our "sorry asses". You end this by calling the fans "utterly useless moron"(s).
Another post by you is titled "You are a Jerk", where you tell someone to keep their "idiotic opinions" to themselves.
Of course we now have this final missive from someone in the know, a "friend" of Morrissey, where you refer to fans as "childish morons" and "bastards".
You aren't exactly preaching from a moral high ground here, are you? Is there any difference between your posts and the "childish morons" you are talking to? I don't see any difference, except if you are actually a friend of Morrissey, you should know better.
I'm sure your moral equivalence is that you are only addressing the "childish, cruel and juvenile" Morrissey fans. Let alone what is cruel to you may be poignant to someone else. Let alone that it is much more interesting to read a dissenting opinion than the countless knee jerk fawning messages that litter this site. Let alone that your own example leads nowhere. Let alone all that, assume you are right to begin with. You mean to tell me, you, never mind Morrissey, are affected on some level by the anonymous postings on a message board?
Maybe Morrissey wants his fans to Fax Record executives, to boycott bootleg DVDs and never question, wonder or worry about him. Maybe, but if you are lucky that won't happen. I have to wonder again, if Morrissey fans ever became so one dimensional, so obedient, as you seem to think they should be, what difference would there be between Moz fans and Britney Spears fans? None.
The only thing I find "astonishing" is that for a base of fans that admire someone so unique and intellectually curious, that there is this mindless devotion, this refusal to apply any logic and to form any opinion or idea of ones own. If need be, I would worry more about this, then whether someone dares question the judgment or actions of Morrissey himself.
Further more, please continue to post your comments and judgments about other people, but I'd like you to know, I think you do a lot more harm when you add that you are Morrissey friend to your messages, and thereby imply your thoughts and posts are sanctioned by Morrissey. You either do that to inflate your own sense yourself, or because you want us to know Morrissey thinks as you do. Judging from your posts, I'm going to safely assume it’s the former.
Its a good thing because if I thought Morrissey thought as you do, and called his fans, "utterly useless morons" and "bastards", I'd bet allot of people and myself would cease to care about what Morrissey thought to begin with.
(User #215 Info)
A note to Wendy (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
Deep In The Cell Of My Heart (Score:1)
(User #2713 Info)
Morrissey's new career move (Score:1)
I don't know what Morrissey is thinking anymore. It's been almost FOUR years since Maladjusted. That is pretty scary. If there ever is a new album, it won't be a new album, it will be labeled a "comeback," that is, if it doesn't fall through the cracks in the charts immediately. Well, guess what, Morrissey? It won't be a comeback to any of us. You've always been here. The only people who are going to buy this J. Barry DVD are us, right here--the people who check Morrissey-solo everyday for news about YOU. The people who post messages on the Internet about your future. The people who care where you live, who you have lunch with, what kind of car you drive, where you shop. The people who are waiting and waiting and hoping--perhaps mistakenly--for something new from YOU. (So that's, what, like 30 of us???) So don't tell us what not to buy, especially when it involves your career. Because without us, you wouldn't have a singing career. You'd be stuck in an office 8 hours a day with us. And we can't afford Gucci jackets.
Morrissey, please consider this: If we are willing to spend our paychecks on substandard bootleg products, what would we give for something new from you? There's got to be a way to get an album out. Hell, this shmoe at my work is in a band and he sells his CD for 10 bucks!
yeah, yeah, Morrissey bashing sucks, I know....
(User #506 Info)
Wendy: What are you doing ? (Score:0)
A pleasure to write to you. However, I really don't think that you really needed to say
all these things - most people on here, the one(s) having an ounce of common sense, will
understand the situation. I don't mean this to sound critical, but sometimes, too much
information is worse than a little.
The point about an artist of Morrissey's stature is that he deserves to be treated in the
same professional manner as the work and effort that he puts into it himself. If
you read my earlier post, you'd see that I believe that Morrissey is suffering from
having a lack of staff - staff who are alert and capable. Capable of sorting these things out for him. Morrissey didn't have time to check what was
happening with the film during the tour, but someone else should have. If it turned out that the film was badly produced or directory or some other aspect was not acceptable, then the filmmaker should have been kicked into touch.
I don't think posts on moz-solo are saying 'what a bad person Morrissey has become' rather
by objecting strongly to these things - just like the outbreak of fan revolt following the
Babylon Press issue - fans are just showing that they are suffering frustration from a lack of Morrissey material. At the end of the day, fans buy bootlegs because the record companies don't
realise enough material to keep them interested. The search for any little bit of a song, or video clip of a concert becomes a life(s) work.
At the end of the day, it's the fans that make or break an artist. If only someone had been able to pull this thing together, we'd now be looking at a very successful concert film, a film which would
have generated a lot of media interest and sales.
And finally, after all this, I presume Morrissey is just being himself. I would agree with him.
Why should he have to put up with this ?
Morrissey deserves better.
I note your comments. The really sad part of this episode is that it was a truly wonderful oportunity for an amazing film to be made.
We know that Morrissey can write wonderful songs. Someone just has to give him the push to
keep going. I hope that you are doing just that.
Where is Cindy? (Score:1)
(User #762 Info)
moz'lack of communication, it once occured with st (Score:0)
remember what had happened to stephen street in the 80's. after the recording of 'viva hate', street started to worry 'cse he had no contract regarding the copyrights. he asked moz a few times to make things clear & moz always replied him, 'it will be make soon'. this situation continued during months & months after the release of the lp and then as other songs were going to be released, street had to threaten moz to sue him to get a legal contract. moz finally talked to his lawyers but after all this tension, of course, he didn't accept street to produce other lps anymore.
there are a lot of stories like that.
siouxsie also complained of his lack of communication regarding the video that they began to shoot for interlude. after 2 hours, siouxsie decided to leave the location 'cse moz didn't want to tell her directly that he was not agree with her about some scenes. instead of that, he always asked his manager to do the job for him.
as siouxsie felt uneasy with this situation, she decided to give up the project.
marr also had had the same feelings after the recording of the last smiths'lp..
when there's a lack of communication in a relationship, animosity always appears quickly
After it's all said and done... (Score:0)
At least in the past all the CRAP was contained to 'fans' amungst their friends. Now, unfortunately, Moz has access to all this garbage. What great motivation all this must be for him, huh.
If i were Moz,after seeing the shit on this board, I'd be buying myself a deserted island far from all these awful people....cowardly fans and his 'close friends' alike. For supposedly being such an intellectual group, each and every one of you needs a 9 week stay at a good Finishing School.
The only person in the world you can trust is yourself.
If there's anyone to blame for lack of new Moz material it's us. I'm so very sickened now. I'm sorry, Morrissey, I'm so very sorry.
at last... (Score:1)
(User #2836 Info | http://uk.geocities.com/tania_bunbury/index.html)
The harsh truth........ (Score:0)
It's Good that Morrissey is Ruthless (Score:0)
The Onion: Your last album came out in 1992. What have you been up to since then, and why haven't we heard from you?
Andy Partridge: Because we've been on strike. Because we had the shittiest record deal on planet Earth. I mean, you hear
about those old blues artists who sign away their estate for five dollars and a bottle of beer... Hey, I'm still waiting for that
bottle of beer! You know, we had the crappiest record deal. I'll tell you how crap our record deal was: Although we made
Virgin Records [the band's label in England] somewhere in the region of 35 million pounds profit, we were still in debt to them
after 15 years on the label.
O: You must have been running up a big catering bill in the meantime.
AP: Well, we had a very corrupt manager to start with, but I'm not supposed to talk about
that because he made me sign a very uncorrupt manager's gagging clause. The sort of
gagging clause that really nice people who don't have anything to hide make you sign. We had
a very corrupt manager who kept taking money and putting us continually in the hole. We
didn't know. He was setting himself up nicely. And, of course, we got shot of him and inherited