posted by davidt on Thursday June 28 2001, @09:00AM
As Morrissey-solo has always been an open forum and I would like to keep it as such, here is J. Barry's statement, in response to the previous article: "'South With Morrissey' - Morrissey's response" (June 26):
It is true that the name on my passport is Barry J. Derbyshire, but as a film-maker I had problems in the United States with the pronunciation of my surname so I used the name J.Barry, it's not a disguise. In terms of the legal position, I have no contract with Morrissey and anyone who has followed his career will probably not be too surprised to hear this. Anyway, for me it's always been about trust, not men in suits sorting out what people should or should not see. However, to avoid confusion let me say that anyone who orders the DVD will either receive one or will be fully refunded within 28 days of their order. If you want a refund now, please email [email protected].

Everything that I put on is true and until now I have had no response from Morrissey, if you could call his spokesperson's statement a response. I sent him a first version of the film as per our verbal agreement made in Mexico, this was for any comments he might have, but he didn't reply. I then sent him the finished DVD but again he didn't reply, so I thought maybe it's just his way of letting something which is not an inferior corporate rip-off slip out into the world. I took no comment as carry on.

So far only Morrissey and David T. have seen the DVD and maybe it will have to stay that way. I can't talk to Morrissey and although I own the film, of course there will be complex legal questions as to the rights and wrongs of allowing other people to see it because it features Morrissey in performance.

Finally, the worst aspect of all this is the bad feeling it generates. I imagine that I will never speak to Morrissey again and it appears that I have hurt him. This was never my intention and as I put in my letter to him I will give him a share of any profit I make from selling the DVD or video. Is it all really about money? Have I exploited Morrissey? Whatever happens from now I would at least like to say that when I went to South America to make a film about the tour, it exceeded my expectations. I met the band and crew and worked with them as friends and I won't forget that, I've been on tours with other bands where the bullshit level became intolerable. As you would expect, this tour was unique. Of course I met Morrissey and he was very fine and in the end that's what inspired me to take this as far as I have.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 (Morrissey-solo Overload: CommentLimit 50)
  • Ah,Morrissey. Anyone that that has ever dealt with the man has been down the same road. Its a pity that what makes you great also can create and encourage such dysfunctionality.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:12AM (#13675)
  • This is quite heartbreaking.....I hate to say it but now I'm even more dissapointed with Morrissey than I was before. I don't see his problem. Sometimes I suspect that Morrissey lacks any kind of respect for other people.
    Mozzarella -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:22AM (#13677)
    (User #864 Info |
    If I wasn't a cat, I'd be a girl.
  • I'll take one anyway!
    Phubbbs -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:28AM (#13679)
    (User #1259 Info |
    Good manners and bad breath will get you nowhere.
  • i talked to the singer of the sheila divine who opened for moz on a few dates on the oye esteban tour...i asked him what he thought of moz....he said "to be honest with you i met him him a total of 10 seconds" he also said "he's what you think he would be like" draw your own conclusions...who here really thought moz was all nicey nice anyways?
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:31AM (#13681)
  • I believe that you had good intentions for making the DVD.
    And I also believe what you say in regards to Morrissey not responding to you until the last minute.
    If he is that upset over the DVD because of the money, I think that he should release something on his own and quit his complaining.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:38AM (#13682)
  • Well, I have never told this story on line but I would like to share it now. I have been a Moz fan for about 12 years now. It was always my dream to see him and meet him in person. I have now seen him live 3 times from the front row each time. It is amazing to see how he can connect with you in the length of a concert. He makes you feel as if he has always known you (eye contact, hand shakes, little looks). It is hard to explain unless you have been there. Anyways, about 5 years ago, I bought a gift for Morrissey that I promised I would give him if I ever got close enough. A gift that I knew would have sentimental value to him. I finally was able to hand it to him on his last tour. I was sceptical as to whether he would ever look at it again. When I finally met him at one of the in-stores (almost a year later) I started explaining that I handed him a gift and he instantly finished my sentence and described the gift to ME. He said it was amazing and was so happy to get it. He instantly got up and gave me a huge hug even as security told him to sit down. The point of this story is that he is who he is. Let him be that and if so many people did not have so many preconceived notions about him, they would not be so judgemental.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @09:42AM (#13684)
  • I went to that site, I saw the pictures, I was born in São Paulo btw. Then I noticed that on the down left side of the photos was written:
    So, the guy-with-some-other-name has never bothered with legal issues, being so superior to that, but never minded that people believed that the copyright of the photographs belonged to him or to his site????
    Ah, Morrissey, I'm so glad, I knew you were right all the time!!!
    Havfine -- Thursday June 28 2001, @10:13AM (#13687)
    (User #284 Info)
    "Have you forgotten how to love yourself?" Red House Painters
  • OK, so if this is true, I'll take back what I said.

    However, i would hope someone amongst either side has proof of what they are saying. Morrissey can't simply claim to own the images on the film because he waved at the camera, and I don't exactly know what Moz was thinking would happen to the footage after someone had flown all that way to film the concert and be allowed to have personal access to many things that even the girls of and moz-solo couldn't get a hold of. I would have hoped after the legal debacle of what happened with not getting it in writing with Joyce and Rourke he would have learned to be more careful about these sorts of things.

    Somebody fucked up. Who it was, we don't know, although, J. Barry could have done something to protect himself by getting everyone to sign waivers. Business is business, folks, and if they refuse to sign the legalese, then you don't even bother picking up your camera and flying to south america. I dont' care who it is coz there are many sharks out there. Although if it is true that this guy tried to contact Moz, Morrissey should learn at this point that if he doesn't get someone to deal with it early enough on, you are going to end up with messes like this. If you ignore problems, they don't disappear. They get worse and worse.

    But neither side makes a whole lot of sense. I'm sorry. Both of you screwed up.

    suzanne -- Thursday June 28 2001, @10:25AM (#13688)
    (User #36 Info)
    I scare dead people.
  • Would you please go to hell?
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @10:31AM (#13689)
  • This is a very respectable statement.

    Where are you Morrissey?
    NancyBrown -- Thursday June 28 2001, @10:32AM (#13690)
    (User #2747 Info)
    I don't believe in magic anymore.
  • in the end it is not clear from j.barry's response if the dvd will be released or not.
    first he says everyone who bought one will get one, then he says that maybe only david t. and morrissey will see it.
    is it just me or is this guy a flake?
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @10:37AM (#13691)
  • If it's not about money then why not make the whole DVD downloadable from your site?
    Is it all about money?
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @11:20AM (#13695)
  • the bootlegs are all we have to keep the moz legacy alive.nobody is going to sign morrissey at this age in his life i think morrissey should start his own record label something like a moz records with great bands on the label well,hey it's just a thought even if it is a little corny to think about it.
    leedoggpimp <[email protected]> -- Thursday June 28 2001, @11:37AM (#13700)
    (User #2789 Info |
    True friends stab you in the front.
  • for christ's sake, if morrissey put out new product every now and then, this wouldn't be a topic up for discussion. obviously what's happening is that that this DVD is not in his control and as with most things, the existence of South With Morrissey is a control issue. There's no way in hell that J. Berry would have this kind of access to Morrissey & Co. unless Morrissey himself gave him the green light. Now it sounds like he's had a change of heart and Berry's work is doomed for the toilet becasue our beloved "Moz" is waving his royal hand in dismisal on what sounds like the most interesting look into the real world of Morrissey since Johnny Rogan's book (of course this is the real deal since Morrissey has obviously given J. Berry all access). I don't think we really have to worry about this matter though--eventually this DVD (and videotaped copies) will make it to eBay and we'll all pay the inflated price for it -- I know I will unless J. Berry keeps selling it through his site. If the issue is money, the guy said he'd split the profits 50/50--Morrissey's not going to get a better deal from any record company than that. And I can't imagine that his Gucci wardrobe is gettting any cheaper to maintain.
    eugenius -- Thursday June 28 2001, @12:04PM (#13705)
    (User #1665 Info |
    I'm almost sure you can do better than that.
  • I don't see the problem.

    Someone went on tour with Morrissey, and with the permission of Steven M himself, filmed what he saw. After which, Morrissey balked at releasing the film, so the filmmaker is releasing on his own. Its not an official release, it’s an all access bootleg.

    Morrissey, his lawyers, management, whatever, don't want this DVD released, either by itself, or without their control. Ok. The lawyer even posts a message on M-solo, saying so much, even imploring us not to buy it. That’s within their rights, and Morrissey should express his opinions when he feels strongly about something. I don’t see the problem.

    Morrissey if you don't want this film released, of course you should not have allowed it to be filmed. If you have a real legal leg to stand on, than stop its release. I won't hold it against you. Of course you know it will seep out, just because it exists. You can however hamper it, increase the value of it, make it harder to buy. By all means, if it’s your legal right, than do so.

    When an artist ask the fans to do something, whether it’s Free Tibet or not buy a DVD, fans should not blindly follow their orders. Anyone who tells you different is wrong. You are a fan, not a dog. You should think about what the artist said and decide for yourself, how you feel about something and whether you agree with the artist.

    I am glad the Morrissey spokesperson told me that this DVD is illegal and that he thinks I should not buy it, let me see if I agree…

    When I buy something the main thing I am looking for, is the product WORTH the price. There is of course, the usual, is the seller usury, was something harmed to make the product, was the product stolen, etc. I guess this is where some fans are making a connection.
      They are saying, YES! The film is stolen images of Morrissey and therefore its morally wrong to buy it. Just so everyone knows, morals, aren’t and don't necessarily always follow laws. With that said, I don't view this film as being stolen, or that someone is being harmed by it being released.

    A concert happened, it was allowed to be filmed. If this person doesn’t release it, is Morrissey going to release it? To me bootlegs are like museum pieces, artifacts, recordings of history. Thank one and all that someone, somewhere was an entrepreneur who recorded the many Smiths bootleg shows that exist. Thank goodness. If not for those who either through greed or love recorded those Smiths concerts, all record of those nights would be lost in the minds of only those in attendance. No bootlegs are good and this is a bootleg.

    This isn't someone on a corner selling a bloody gold chain, its not stolen goods, in anything but the legal sense. It’s not a personal home video, it was a public concert. Why be shy about buying it? Because a spokesperson for Morrissey said I shouldn’t buy it?

    Personally I don't see any quandary buying the DVD.

    The one thing that did make my blood boil, the one thing that made curse to high hell was this line

    “I ask Morrissey-solo NOT to promote this film”

    What the fuck is that all about?

    Preach to me regarding Morrissey wishes about silly legal and finance issues, but don’t ever, ever go any further and imply and any blame or slight of hand, on the website that has done more to more to sell and encourage the music, image and concerts of Morrissey than anyone. What gall! I swear, if Morrissey himself said this I’d feel the same. Here you have this site, the people who run it, who visit, all day wasting our youth away talking about and celebrating “Morrissey”. We never get a personal message from the messiah, which is fine, really. Yet when the one message we get from some spokesperson, has the nerve to try and tell this site what their content should be, well that pisses me off.

    Seriously, it’s an insult if I ever heard one.

    If I was Morrissey, right now I’d be laying off my spokesperson, and writing an apology letter to David.
    Smiths <reversethis-{moc ... a} {2eporhtdniw}> -- Thursday June 28 2001, @01:19PM (#13719)
    (User #215 Info)
  • i wish you all the luck, your gonna need it though, the man and his ma have ways of twisting everything. As he has no intention of touring( no one will work with him) or recording (record co's wont touch him)I feel the fans are owed something.good luck!!!
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @01:37PM (#13721)
  • that if it were up to Morrissey we would not have seen "James Dean is Not Dead", "Exit Smiling" or his essays on the New York Dolls? He acceepted 50 pounds from babylon books in 1978 as an overall payment...and of course changed his mind.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @01:41PM (#13722)
  • I`m so very sickened.Reading all these cruel,unkind comments people are making about Morrissey has broken my heart.Because I thought we were all here bacause we love him.Morrissey`s music has given me immense pleasure and comfort he means the world to me.I would never ever say such cruel and unkind about him things about him.Not only are the comments being said about him unkind they are also untrue.And all this Moz bashing turns my stomach.Also why does it matter if Morrissey has money now?He wasn`t born with it he made it all on his own.And again if someone had taken away something that was rightfully yours would you be upset?Just let him be and stop bashing him he doesn`t deserve this.BTW I think that the story Anonymous wrote about meeting Morrissey was sweet.Name another artist who reaches out and touches his audience during concerts.Name another artist who lets his fans rush the stage just so they can touch him.I think these facts illustrate what a sweet ,kind, and gentle soul Morrissey is.And by the way Julia Riley runs a fine Morrissey fanzine.There is no need to bash her.-Tibby-How I Love All Of The Very Mozzer Things Of Life........
    tibby -- Thursday June 28 2001, @01:50PM (#13726)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • What a wonderful story but it's hard to judge exactly what has been the cause of the breakdown in communication between the two parties.

    For me, the possibly delightful prospect of watching Morrissey during a wonderful series of concerts would be such an amazing musical moment - especially since the lack of substancial material from the late 90's onwards.

    I'd have thought that on first inspection, Morrissey would be pretty upset with the overall quality from the stills. Goodness knows what the rest of the film is like. The whole point to this is that Morrissey is not some jumped up singer with a crap band. The man deserves so much better. Is all that we are going to remember from such an eventful series of concerts (and hard work) this insignificant product ?

    I'm sorry that my views are so destructive for the poor guy involved, but it's so hard to put down anything which could be seen to be positive. What a wonderfully wasted opportunity.

    Morrissey, as a total professional, must be surrounded by real idiots to get himself into
    this position. I can't think of anything that is such as big a kick in the face as this - to all the support team around him. I don't know
    if he was doing all the work himself around this time but I really doubt it.

    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @02:02PM (#13729)
  • No, I really don't...

    Just send me the damned DVD I have ordered, and make it quick!
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @03:14PM (#13740)
  • Investigatin' (Score:1, Interesting)

    I don't have a login but I was curious about the background of J. Barry and DV Arts Ltd which is the company selling this DVD. The address on the web page is Suite 387, 37 Store Street, Bloomsbury.

    It's not a crime to use a Mail Boxes Etc. for a business address. ("Suite" my ass, however. "Box," just "Box.") If you're buying a bootleg you probably expect nothing less. But it does make the seller's response seem even more disingenuous than it did the first time I read it. As if he doesn't know he's sketchy. If it's "all about trust," well, then I guess it's about trusting a guy not to run off with your money, despite a pseudonym, a euphemistic mailing address, no film credits, and a probably meaningless company name. You only have to wait 28 days to find out for sure. It's probably fine.

    Also, I think this is very different from a bootleg -- an audience or soundboard recording -- because of the matter of access. I'm not surprised Morrissey didn't have a contract with him. He has no film work to his name, or if he does he is keeping quiet about it. Morrissey wouldn't just give me a film contract either. It's routine for people in that position to work on spec, meaning "see what you come up with and if it's any good, we'll talk." Morrissey gave Barry an extraordinary opportunity that also carried some risk. Whether that was wise or not, it was generous.

    So it didn't work out. That doesn't mean you act like you were doing Morrissey a favor by filming your "personal interpretation" of his work. It doesn't mean you sell that work as if you weren't selling him without consent.

    He's obviously put a lot of work into his film, but I just don't feel J. Barry has earned my $29. No amount of misused, hijacked anti-corporate rhetoric will change that.


    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @03:36PM (#13745)
  • Is this was a porn video,I would have understood all the fuss from the Morrissey camp. Something really vile going on in there? Something that the main person would really feel like not releasing? It's just another bootleg for God's sake. Not to mention some nameless post from some spokesperson...I don't give a ****.If this thing was sold at the marketplace,or anywhre else, it would have gone ok. Just an other one. We all do have loads of bootlegs.
    The only good thing about all this is that we seem to be pretty well monitored by moz's web slaves.Or even by himself.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @04:09PM (#13746)
  • I find J. Barry's statement to be VERY credible. Nothing else needs to be said.
    havisham -- Thursday June 28 2001, @05:24PM (#13749)
    (User #3119 Info)
  • First of all, Morrissey verbally agreed to this project which is considered a legal contract. Second of all, J Barry sent him a first version copy and Morrissey never responded. Morrissey had his chance to reject the deal. Then J Barry sends him the final version. Again Morrissey declines his right to end the deal. Therefore, because there were no rejections from Morrissey or his "people" J Barry has full right, per their verbal contract, to release the video. Now that the video has been mass produced and advertised Morrissey decides to take back the deal. Morrissey I love you but fuck off. The way I see it Morrissey had reasonable time to back out and didn't. He should not be able to stand in the middle of this project. But, Morrissey probably has better lawyers and a lot of money, so he will probably win.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @05:50PM (#13751)
  • we all are going to buy this dvd. who cares about morrissey. he just open his mouth when he has something awful to say, so fuck off, baby, yes, that's it.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @05:55PM (#13753)
  • please, please send me the dvd i ordered. to hell with the lawyers. i do love moz, but sometimes he just seems so selfish.
    p.s. why was a dvd released entitled Oye Esteban? it had absolutely nothing to do with the tour. the fans want more!!
    sashac -- Thursday June 28 2001, @06:12PM (#13757)
    (User #3120 Info |
  • I appreciate the spirit behind J. Barry's comments. I believe and agree with what he said, and I will buy the video.
    Davey Boy -- Thursday June 28 2001, @06:24PM (#13758)
    (User #508 Info)
  • "Morrissey if you don't want this film released, of course you should not have allowed it to be filmed."

    Everyone is overlooking something: Morrissey did not know what form the film would take when he allowed Mr. Mars Bar to come to South America with him.

    They probably made a private agreement. Morrissey had he could film -- and if Morrissey approved of it -- then sell it. So it was filmed -- but it was crap, in Morrissey's eyes. Really, how impressive was that 30 sec. clip? It seemed pretty poor.

    So Morrissey is totally in the right. And Mr. Mars Bar is upset because his work didn't pass muster, and now is trying to force it through against the original agreement.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @07:12PM (#13769)
  • that would be a great inspiration to Morrissey write a new song on this pathetic episode. what will be now? -j. barry on the gillotine?- dear, will you spend the rest of your life fighting, calling lawyers, and meaning at people? stop being a selfish hungry money, and allow your fans some fun. i want this damn video, and i will buy it. piss off.
    Anonymous -- Thursday June 28 2001, @11:04PM (#13796)
  • If this video/dvd exists...then how many other (hidden) projects exist? Is it wrong to assume that there might be other "bootlegs" out there like this one? Aren't there videos shot for the crew and band members for each tour or did I just make up hearing about that?

    please help the cause
    Andy-Mats -- Thursday June 28 2001, @11:05PM (#13797)
    (User #151 Info)
  • I love Morrisseys music, he's also a nice fellow when you meet him. I wish he could have agreed to the dvd, but even though he didn't I'm still gonna buy it. It's not up to Moz to choose weather I buy it or not, it's my choice, also they'res tons of other bootlegs of Moz out they're, and he's never filed lawsuits against them or anything like that for making them. So why should he now? Morrissey obviously knew what he was getting into when he brought this guy barry to film.

    Then what was the point of bringing Barry to film, what did Moz tell him, hey Barry film me and the rest of my band and crew, and then just store it away somewhere in some vault because were not going to show the world what you filmed. Sounds a bit ridculous to me. I wonder if Morrissey even paid the guy to film. All in all Morrissey is just being a stubborn butthead about it, and he should just let the Barry guy release it, at least he'll get half the doe of what the dvd/video makes. What is he so worried about this dvd, does it show something about him that he doesnt want us fans to see about himwe don't, I'm just wondering why he doesn't want it released, and don't say because the guy is making money off his image and art and that he took advantage of Morrissey, plenty of people make money off his image and art, and have taken advantage of him, note john Rogan, and he never does a thing about it. So I don't think he should now and that my final say on this matter.

    Also for those fans that aren't gonna buy, well hey it's your loss
    bobmoz <[email protected]> -- Friday June 29 2001, @02:00AM (#13806)
    (User #841 Info)
  • Well I'm no lawyer. But I have been thinking last night, and though it's always dangerous to say what one thought before going to sleep (easy, I'm just saying that such thoughts are sometimes quite surrealistic), I'll try to summarize it:
    There are several levels by which property is assigned to an artist. There is the right of selling, the right of producing and of course the right of creating.
    1) The right of selling is ensured to the commerce, they can legally sell what was produced by a label or record company in this case.
    I think that is about this point that most people are angry here, but they should not anyway because I don't believe that's the issue Morrissey is worried about. As I develop my thought I hope that is made clearer. For the while I say that it is obvious that bootlegs cannot be sold in any legal way, for as Joe and others have already said, the whole thing is legally forbidden from the start - the use of cameras and tape records at concerts I mean.
    2) The right of producing is allowed from the artist to some record company or video producer through a contract. For instance, as much as people didn't like that compilation, still the rc had all rights to produce it because they had a contract.
    3) The "right" of creating is not a right by itself because it's obvious and self-evident. Still, legally there must be such a right because otherwise people can steal IDEAS. Stealing ideas is much worse than any situation named before, because the person who stole them can make whatever they want with what they legally own as an idea (or art, that is an expression of an idea).

    Now, let's see if I put my point straight: for all you who are angry because you think that Morrissey bothered about the first point I mentioned, I'd recommend that you think twice before accusing him. I don't think that's what is troubling him at all. As I said in my prior post, I went to that site and there I noticed that in the pictures the name of the that site was written, as if the pictures were property of that site. That violates the second and perhaps even the third point I mentioned, rather than the first one. I feel that this guy wanted to make a bootleg, and to that Morrissey never bothered - what he bothered about, though, was the insinuation that the site owned the pictures and perhaps also the video (can't say, didn't see it and have NO intentions to buy it). So, the guy wanted to create a bootleg that had a copyright - but that is IMPOSSIBLE, that is an absurd, unless Morrissey had sold to him such righs, I believe. That would not be stealing Morrissey's money, that would be stealing his IDEA and rights over it! Now, before you believe in everything that guy is saying in his post, please go to that site, check the pictures and see if what I am saying is true. Then ask yourselves the same question I asked in my first post here: if the guy never cared about legal issues, why did he care to write the name of his site on the photographs, as if they belonged to him? To own the film is not the same as owning the idea of the film, and he certainly does not own the idea of the tour, Morrissey owns that! And by owning that, Morrissey has all rights over what he created! So, once more: making a bootleg is COMPLETELY different from wanting this bootleg to have a copyright! If he had such copyright, just that guy would have rights over the tour, can't you see that???
    Havfine -- Friday June 29 2001, @02:58AM (#13808)
    (User #284 Info)
    "Have you forgotten how to love yourself?" Red House Painters
  • ..gets my support. I don't think its about getting one over on Morrissey as well.. But Moz does seem so very precious about bootlegs and money and all the other paraphanalia that you'd expect around anyone famous..

    Ruffian <[email protected]> -- Friday June 29 2001, @05:00AM (#13809)
    (User #1813 Info)
    "In the days when you were hopelessly poor, I just liked you more..."
  • This is very similar to the other Moz DVD that was released a few years back called "Malvideo". The quality was so-so and it was extremely hard to find. I am not sure who put it out though. There was no big deal made of it, so why this one?
    Anonymous -- Friday June 29 2001, @09:44AM (#13832)
    • Re:Similar? by half-a-person (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @09:51PM
  • I really hope this isn't completely over money. Honestly, this DVD may generate a a few thousand dollars, but what is that to someone as wealthy as Morrissey? Two years back I read that Morrissey is worth 8 million pounds (which is close to $20 million U.S). In my opinion it is quite petty. I know, I know....there is the principle of it all. But please, if Morrissey doesn't give his fans anything, and someone else does, I'd have to say thank-you. At least someone cares about us.
    haze <[email protected]> -- Friday June 29 2001, @11:31AM (#13844)
    (User #1115 Info)
  • I have been a Morrissey/Smiths fan for about 10 years. As time passes....I have come to appreciate his talent more and more, yet there is also something else that has become painfully clear in the process....that for all he is that is great, there is also a very loathesome side to him. So much of his psychosis is still rooted in childhood. It is obvious in alot of what he does, and if that is not proof "The Severed Alliance". I think because of who he is, we have all elevated him to supernatural status, but with incidents such as this, it serves as a reminder that he is, like us.....human. Unfortunately as time passes, this behavior, at least in my eyes....becomes less and less acceptable, regardless of the man.
    Anonymous -- Friday June 29 2001, @11:54AM (#13846)
  • Barry, make 'South With . . ." available to download for free or I will.
    Also does anyone want a quality copy of the DVD or VHS for £5 or $10(I will make no profit.)

    Post your interest here and I may supply contact details depending on the response.

    Yours truly
    Anonymous -- Friday June 29 2001, @12:14PM (#13849)
  • I think your Morrissey bashing is truly horrid .What a shameful way to pay him back for all the beautiful music he`s created.From bashing his looks,his music and his credibility.Just because you don`t agree with him is no reason to insult him try expressing yourself in an intelligent manner.Morrissey`s music will always be truly beautiful.His gorgeous looks will always remain so.Morrissey will always be beautiful like James Dean.But if all you care about are his looks and not what is inside his sensitive,beautiful,poetic soul then I truly feel sorry for you.It is because of his sensitive,lovely soul and because of his loneliness and isolation that he`s written the most beautiful songs on God`s green earth.If you still don`t get that I suggest you read Oscar Wilde`s "The Happy Prince" so you can see what outside beauty is compared to having a truly beautiful soul.I thought people who love and supposedly understand Morrissey/Smiths music would be better than that.I think people who truly understand this music do know that a beautiful heart and soul transcend good looks. After all one just has to listen to Morrisey`s music to know that he was insecure about his looks.Even though he is wonderfully gorgeous.And I still say that he has every right to be upset about this DVD being released without his permission.This guy was given permission by Morrissey to film him.Perhaps Morrissey feels betrayed by this breach of confidence we simply don`t know.Yet some people are quite willing to jump on the Morrissey bashing bandwagon without knowing all the facts.I won`t say an unkind word or anything cruel about him ever.Because as I have said before that would be a sad,sorry,twisted way to pay him back for all the immense pleasure and comfort and solace that his beautiful music has given me.It truly means the world to me.And maybe some of you out there should think about what this music has given to you before you join the Morrissey insult party just give it a thought.Stop being selfish and thinking only of yourself and what you can get from him.Morrissey certainly doesn`t deserve this shabby treatment.-Tibby How I Love All Of The Very Mozzer Things Of Life............
    tibby -- Friday June 29 2001, @12:26PM (#13853)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • FAME.....MONEY............LAWSUITS

      "heaven knows i'm miserable now".

                                          Frank Vulgar
    Anonymous -- Friday June 29 2001, @05:07PM (#13888)
  • I find it astonishing how most of you are so eager to launch an attack on Morrissey and his character. This is nothing new for the site, as I witness every day whenever an updated news item is posted, there is always some cruel, tasteless and juvenile remark hurled at him. Normally, I skip over these when I read him the latest news (no, he is not on-line). It's not that I am Max to his Norma Desmond, only feeding him the praise and worship. But these remarks I see on here constantly are so hateful and revolting that I wouldn't choose to relate them to anyone, let alone a good friend. Especially such drivel by childish morons who know NOTHING about him, and would rather fire off scathing and uninformed comments from the safety of their computer screens. Cowards. This post is NOT for YOU. Nor is it for those who believe he is infallible and follow blindly.

    This post is for those who don't automatically assume the worst from Morrissey. For those who don't jump to the very worst conclusion and charge him of things such as greed, arrogance, self-centeredness, unkindness, conceit and whatever other unfounded accusations. For those of you whose hearts have been touched by Morrissey, I want you to rest assured that your hero is in every way the man you've always imagined him to be. He is pure wit, unfailing kindness and consideration, a poet by nature, a shoulder to weep on, and a truly inspirational, kindred spirit. Don't let these bastards upset you with their cruel, insipid and untrue remarks. Know also that Morrissey possesses one characteristic that always seems to get passed over in favor of "pope of mope" brandishment: His ilimitable humor and charm. I know this because I am his friend, or "that Asian girl" as I've been referred to many times.

    Wendy Wu
    Los Angeles, CA

    aurore george -- Friday June 29 2001, @05:44PM (#13896)
    (User #1681 Info)
    • Thank you, Wendy by Anonymous (Score:0) Friday June 29 2001, @06:48PM
    • Re:A message for the open-minded by Squirrelhead (Score:1) Friday June 29 2001, @07:32PM
    • 'childish morons', 'cowards', 'bastards', I take it that you are not a Public Relations Officer. If you have anything intellegent to add to the debate, please do so with some decorum and empathy. You may be a friend of Morrissey, if so, you should ask HIM to respond to the criticisms made by fans. 'A message to the open-minded' is an odd title given that you have just abused a large number of you're 'friends' fans and give us a completely one-sided view of the situation. Morrissey please speak to the fans yourself .
      hibernia -- Friday June 29 2001, @10:43PM (#13912)
      (User #820 Info)
      Billy Jones
    • Re:A message for the open-minded by bobmoz (Score:1) Friday June 29 2001, @11:49PM
    • Amazing.

      I was just looking at some of the 'insightful' posts you, aurore george, "the Asian girl", friend of Morrissey, made in the past.

      Such as the first one back in October, titled

      "You Fucking Idiots".

      Where you inform the fans who complained they couldn’t take a picture with Morrissey, that we should be happy Morrissey flew to NY to see, and I quote, our "sorry asses". You end this by calling the fans "utterly useless moron"(s).

        Another post by you is titled "You are a Jerk", where you tell someone to keep their "idiotic opinions" to themselves.

      Of course we now have this final missive from someone in the know, a "friend" of Morrissey, where you refer to fans as "childish morons" and "bastards".

      You aren't exactly preaching from a moral high ground here, are you? Is there any difference between your posts and the "childish morons" you are talking to? I don't see any difference, except if you are actually a friend of Morrissey, you should know better.

      I'm sure your moral equivalence is that you are only addressing the "childish, cruel and juvenile" Morrissey fans. Let alone what is cruel to you may be poignant to someone else. Let alone that it is much more interesting to read a dissenting opinion than the countless knee jerk fawning messages that litter this site. Let alone that your own example leads nowhere. Let alone all that, assume you are right to begin with. You mean to tell me, you, never mind Morrissey, are affected on some level by the anonymous postings on a message board?

      Maybe Morrissey wants his fans to Fax Record executives, to boycott bootleg DVDs and never question, wonder or worry about him. Maybe, but if you are lucky that won't happen. I have to wonder again, if Morrissey fans ever became so one dimensional, so obedient, as you seem to think they should be, what difference would there be between Moz fans and Britney Spears fans? None.

      The only thing I find "astonishing" is that for a base of fans that admire someone so unique and intellectually curious, that there is this mindless devotion, this refusal to apply any logic and to form any opinion or idea of ones own. If need be, I would worry more about this, then whether someone dares question the judgment or actions of Morrissey himself.

      Further more, please continue to post your comments and judgments about other people, but I'd like you to know, I think you do a lot more harm when you add that you are Morrissey friend to your messages, and thereby imply your thoughts and posts are sanctioned by Morrissey. You either do that to inflate your own sense yourself, or because you want us to know Morrissey thinks as you do. Judging from your posts, I'm going to safely assume it’s the former.

      Its a good thing because if I thought Morrissey thought as you do, and called his fans, "utterly useless morons" and "bastards", I'd bet allot of people and myself would cease to care about what Morrissey thought to begin with.

      Smiths <reversethis-{moc ... a} {2eporhtdniw}> -- Saturday June 30 2001, @12:40AM (#13919)
      (User #215 Info)
    • Re:A message for the open-minded by ordinary swirl (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @01:24AM
    • Re:A message for the open-minded by Havfine (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @08:43AM
    • Re:You are a bastard! by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday June 30 2001, @11:35AM
    • Re:A message for George Sand by Squirrelhead (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @02:21PM
    • Open letter to Wendy Wu by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday June 30 2001, @03:30PM
    • Re:A message for the open-minded by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday June 30 2001, @08:54PM
  • Dear Wendy,I just read your comment and am glad you have written in to defended him.And what you have written has proven that my feelings were correct about him.And I am proud of all the comments I`ve written defending him.But I don`t know if you referring to me or people like me in the line saying "this post isn`t for you if you think Morrissey is infallible or just blindly follow."I must say that part did hurt me and made me cry because he means so much to me.You see he has touched my heart in a way that nobody else ever has.It sounds a little strange to say that about someone you have never met.But through his music I feel like I know him.Some of us though don`t live glamourous lives and Morrissey`s beautiful music helps me get through my everyday miserable, dreary existence.It is the only reason I wake up in the morning.I hope you understand this.And know that I am not some freak .He really has just touched my heart and soul and is a special part of my life.And again I am glad you did write in to defend him.Yours Truly -Tibby
    tibby -- Friday June 29 2001, @07:40PM (#13905)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • Dear Wendy and Laura thank you for your posts.Wendy it`s no wonder why Morrissey has you as a freind and thanks for defending me.I know that as Laura said you meant me no harm and I know you are a nice person.And I was so happy when you wrote in to defend him.As I said before it proved to the naysayers that I was correct in defending Morrissey against those cruel comments.I was also hurt and heartbroken at the untrue ,unkind ,things that they were saying about him.And demanding things from him and how they felt he owed them something.I don`t make any demands upon Morrissey and I don`t think he owes me a thing he has already given me so much.All I would want him to know is how much I love admire and respect him.And that his beautiful words, his beautiful music have touched my heart and soul and how much pleasure and comfort they have given me and how special he is to my life that`s all .And I make no demands on him whatsoever I just want to thank him that`s all.Thank You So Much Again Wendy,Love Tibby:-):-):-):-)
    tibby -- Saturday June 30 2001, @12:37AM (#13918)
    (User #2713 Info)
    ~I am a poor freezingly cold soul so far from where I intended to go ~I love Morrissey
  • Well, it appears that Morrissey is no longer interested in writing or recording new songs. He is now solely concerned with litigation and his bank account. Hell, why did he become a singer? He would've made a great lawyer. Why should Morrissey care so much about this bootleg item compared with all the others? And who is this "spokesperson"? I bet he's got his mother surfing the Web, looking for grave injustices committed against him.

    I don't know what Morrissey is thinking anymore. It's been almost FOUR years since Maladjusted. That is pretty scary. If there ever is a new album, it won't be a new album, it will be labeled a "comeback," that is, if it doesn't fall through the cracks in the charts immediately. Well, guess what, Morrissey? It won't be a comeback to any of us. You've always been here. The only people who are going to buy this J. Barry DVD are us, right here--the people who check Morrissey-solo everyday for news about YOU. The people who post messages on the Internet about your future. The people who care where you live, who you have lunch with, what kind of car you drive, where you shop. The people who are waiting and waiting and hoping--perhaps mistakenly--for something new from YOU. (So that's, what, like 30 of us???) So don't tell us what not to buy, especially when it involves your career. Because without us, you wouldn't have a singing career. You'd be stuck in an office 8 hours a day with us. And we can't afford Gucci jackets.

    Morrissey, please consider this: If we are willing to spend our paychecks on substandard bootleg products, what would we give for something new from you? There's got to be a way to get an album out. Hell, this shmoe at my work is in a band and he sells his CD for 10 bucks!

    yeah, yeah, Morrissey bashing sucks, I know....
    shelley -- Saturday June 30 2001, @12:57AM (#13921)
    (User #506 Info)
  • Wendy,

    A pleasure to write to you. However, I really don't think that you really needed to say
    all these things - most people on here, the one(s) having an ounce of common sense, will
    understand the situation. I don't mean this to sound critical, but sometimes, too much
    information is worse than a little.

    The point about an artist of Morrissey's stature is that he deserves to be treated in the
    same professional manner as the work and effort that he puts into it himself. If
    you read my earlier post, you'd see that I believe that Morrissey is suffering from
    having a lack of staff - staff who are alert and capable. Capable of sorting these things out for him. Morrissey didn't have time to check what was
    happening with the film during the tour, but someone else should have. If it turned out that the film was badly produced or directory or some other aspect was not acceptable, then the filmmaker should have been kicked into touch.

    I don't think posts on moz-solo are saying 'what a bad person Morrissey has become' rather
    by objecting strongly to these things - just like the outbreak of fan revolt following the
    Babylon Press issue - fans are just showing that they are suffering frustration from a lack of Morrissey material. At the end of the day, fans buy bootlegs because the record companies don't
    realise enough material to keep them interested. The search for any little bit of a song, or video clip of a concert becomes a life(s) work.
    At the end of the day, it's the fans that make or break an artist. If only someone had been able to pull this thing together, we'd now be looking at a very successful concert film, a film which would
    have generated a lot of media interest and sales.

    And finally, after all this, I presume Morrissey is just being himself. I would agree with him.
    Why should he have to put up with this ?
    Morrissey deserves better.

    I note your comments. The really sad part of this episode is that it was a truly wonderful oportunity for an amazing film to be made.
    We know that Morrissey can write wonderful songs. Someone just has to give him the push to
    keep going. I hope that you are doing just that.


    [email protected]
    Anonymous -- Saturday June 30 2001, @01:21AM (#13923)
  • I think we need to get "Cindy's" opinion on this subject. No wait......I am totally joking! :) How bout' Miharu?
    Sharron Needles -- Saturday June 30 2001, @01:45AM (#13926)
    (User #762 Info)
    Inside every adult male is a denied little boy -Nancy Friday
  • this is nothing new about the moz'unability of communicate with the people around him.
    remember what had happened to stephen street in the 80's. after the recording of 'viva hate', street started to worry 'cse he had no contract regarding the copyrights. he asked moz a few times to make things clear & moz always replied him, 'it will be make soon'. this situation continued during months & months after the release of the lp and then as other songs were going to be released, street had to threaten moz to sue him to get a legal contract. moz finally talked to his lawyers but after all this tension, of course, he didn't accept street to produce other lps anymore.
    there are a lot of stories like that.
    siouxsie also complained of his lack of communication regarding the video that they began to shoot for interlude. after 2 hours, siouxsie decided to leave the location 'cse moz didn't want to tell her directly that he was not agree with her about some scenes. instead of that, he always asked his manager to do the job for him.
    as siouxsie felt uneasy with this situation, she decided to give up the project.
    marr also had had the same feelings after the recording of the last smiths'lp..

    when there's a lack of communication in a relationship, animosity always appears quickly
    Anonymous -- Saturday June 30 2001, @02:31AM (#13928)
  • The internet is the worst thing to have happened to Morrissey's career.

    At least in the past all the CRAP was contained to 'fans' amungst their friends. Now, unfortunately, Moz has access to all this garbage. What great motivation all this must be for him, huh.

    If i were Moz,after seeing the shit on this board, I'd be buying myself a deserted island far from all these awful people....cowardly fans and his 'close friends' alike. For supposedly being such an intellectual group, each and every one of you needs a 9 week stay at a good Finishing School.

    The only person in the world you can trust is yourself.

    If there's anyone to blame for lack of new Moz material it's us. I'm so very sickened now. I'm sorry, Morrissey, I'm so very sorry.
    Anonymous -- Saturday June 30 2001, @11:45AM (#13950)
  • a post from someone who actually has a right to say something about all this. there are so many people posting horrid comments about how morrissey is only interested in money, how he is mean, how he is a wanker, yada yada yada. these people have NO right whatsoever to say these things, because they do not know the man, they have never met him, they just go on assumptions and word of mouth and second-hand information. they, in my opinion, are truly pathetic. and now along comes wendy, who actually knows morrissey. all i can say, wendy, is thank you, thank you, thank you. and please ignore the people who are now slagging you off because of what you said. they are nothing but idiots who seem to be under the impression that they still know morrissey better than you, although exactly where they got that idea from is just beyond my comprehension.
    i am repressed, but i'm remarkably dressed
    • Re:at last... by aurore george (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @01:28PM
      • Re:at last... by Natasha (Score:1) Saturday June 30 2001, @02:45PM
  • Everyone is missing the point. I have been a fan since 85', and consider myself very devout. But based on the latest escapades of "our man", I feel he should be not above reproach! Regardless of the beautiful music he has given us! He has always been like this and will always continue to be like this, because no one ever calls him on his shit! I was once mindless and young also...and had the view that "Morrissey could do no wrong", which is very ignorant! I have since realized that he has the ability to be a real arse! That is all that people are saying....they are not turning a blind eye to his shortcomings. You do not have to be sheep to be considered a fan!- J. Dean
    Anonymous -- Saturday June 30 2001, @02:00PM (#13962)
  • If Morrissey wasn't so ruthless, look what could have happened to him in the record biz (A.P. is from XTC; Morrissey probably saw them play before the Smiths were started):

    The Onion: Your last album came out in 1992. What have you been up to since then, and why haven't we heard from you?

                                          Andy Partridge: Because we've been on strike. Because we had the shittiest record deal on planet Earth. I mean, you hear
                                          about those old blues artists who sign away their estate for five dollars and a bottle of beer... Hey, I'm still waiting for that
                                          bottle of beer! You know, we had the crappiest record deal. I'll tell you how crap our record deal was: Although we made
                                          Virgin Records [the band's label in England] somewhere in the region of 35 million pounds profit, we were still in debt to them
                                          after 15 years on the label.

                                          O: You must have been running up a big catering bill in the meantime.

                                                                                              AP: Well, we had a very corrupt manager to start with, but I'm not supposed to talk about
                                                                                              that because he made me sign a very uncorrupt manager's gagging clause. The sort of
                                                                                              gagging clause that really nice people who don't have anything to hide make you sign. We had
                                                                                              a very corrupt manager who kept taking money and putting us continually in the hole. We
                                                                                              didn't know. He was setting himself up nicely. And, of course, we got shot of him and inherited
    Anonymous -- Saturday June 30 2001, @03:01PM (#13967)
(1) | 2 (Morrissey-solo Overload: CommentLimit 50)

[ home | terms of service ]