Does "Ambitious Outsiders" threaten child-rape?

Novice

Banned
Bolt-lock your doors
Alarm your cars
And still we move in closer
Every day
Top of the list
Is your smiling kids
...


Your taxes paid, but
Police waylaid
And we knows
When the school bus
Comes and goes


I can see no very plausible interpretation for this song than that is a gay ("keeping the population down") man's threat of avenging himself on society via assaults upon children.

And I've found this:

Interviewer: Man, I'm worried about you. First of all, the name of the album is Maladjusted and then you've got this song Ambitious Outsiders which sounds like this evil child-murdering-incorporated NAMBLA theme song type.

Morrissey: Not quite, not quite. But it's creeping towards it, definitely. But a great song, I think, I'm very proud of it.


I can't help but wonder: Are you "very proud of it," moms and dads of Solo? How does this make you feel about Morrissey?

Personally, I'm not sure what to think!
 
Bolt-lock your doors
Alarm your cars
And still we move in closer
Every day
Top of the list
Is your smiling kids
...


Your taxes paid, but
Police waylaid
And we knows
When the school bus
Comes and goes


I can see no very plausible interpretation for this song than that is a gay ("keeping the population down") man's threat of avenging himself on society via assaults upon children.

And I've found this:

Interviewer: Man, I'm worried about you. First of all, the name of the album is Maladjusted and then you've got this song Ambitious Outsiders which sounds like this evil child-murdering-incorporated NAMBLA theme song type.

Morrissey: Not quite, not quite. But it's creeping towards it, definitely. But a great song, I think, I'm very proud of it.


I can't help but wonder: Are you "very proud of it," moms and dads of Solo? How does this make you feel about Morrissey?

Personally, I'm not sure what to think!


I think you're confused. Paedophilia has got nothing to do with being gay/straight.

It doesn't make me 'feel' anything about Morrissey as, like the majority of his songs, it's social commentry. However, the fact that Morrissey indicates that the aggressors are predatory, police-dodging individuals who you need to lock out and alarm your cars against, indicates quite clearly that he thinks they are scum...

We all know the effect the Moors Murders had on him and the rest of England in the 60's - and still does today.

Edit: I now see you've been banned, and seemingly spent your entire time here being a complete and utter tosser - which now explains your above loaded question.
 
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I can see no very plausible interpretation for this song than that is a gay ("keeping the population down") man's threat of avenging himself on society via assaults upon children.

I think that bit just refers to the killing of the kids by someone (gay/str8,whatever)
 
The following is not lyric analysis but crazy Morrissey analysis so feel free to skip this.

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This is fascinating. A few interesting points is that Morrissey looks like he has a mohawk (raptor) in the video and you have to sort of just trust whoever the videographers is to help illustrate Morrissey's points as he accidentally shuffles the camera around, but it's fascinating to watch as Morrissey "shifts." He's doing that shifting thing where he plays both parts, the innocent stumbling about on stage shyly at the beginning and the evil only AFTER the videographer focuses on the light "fire" if you will. So then Morrissey embraces, not as a stance exactly but as a teaching tool in way, the f***ed up killer who wants to kill the children. He does this fascinating thing (remember, I don't believe he knows he's doing this stuff exactly. I'm not suggesting he's in a trance or anything, he's just preprogrammed to be a "great worker" as they call it in alternative teachings) where he sucks his finger and points up. He's getting his finger wet, like with water, and indicating UP. When the elements are out of balance, things like water and earth reside UP, fire and air down. They reverse their normal place in the world which indicates that something is askew and troublemakers are at the helm driving this "cosmic boat" if you will. It's a detailed thing to pick up on but in this video he's doing that. Morrissey's like a delicate human impartial indicator for the state of cosmic affairs in the mundane things that he does...especially on stage when a camera is rolling.
 
I don't think it threatens anything. Comments on it- yes. Takes on the perspective of the perpetrators- certainly. But I agree with the below post...

I think you're confused. Paedophilia has got nothing to do with being gay/straight.

It doesn't make me 'feel' anything about Morrissey as, like the majority of his songs, it's social commentry. However, the fact that Morrissey indicates that the aggressors are predatory, police-dodging individuals who you need to lock out and alarm your cars against, indicates quite clearly that he thinks they are scum...

We all know the effect the Moors Murders had on him and the rest of England in the 60's - and still does today.

Edit: I now see you've been banned, and seemingly spent your entire time here being a complete and utter tosser - which now explains your above loaded question.
 
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Bolt-lock your doors
Alarm your cars
And still we move in closer
Every day
Top of the list
Is your smiling kids
...


Your taxes paid, but
Police waylaid
And we knows
When the school bus
Comes and goes


I can see no very plausible interpretation for this song than that is a gay ("keeping the population down") man's threat of avenging himself on society via assaults upon children.

And I've found this:

Interviewer: Man, I'm worried about you. First of all, the name of the album is Maladjusted and then you've got this song Ambitious Outsiders which sounds like this evil child-murdering-incorporated NAMBLA theme song type.

Morrissey: Not quite, not quite. But it's creeping towards it, definitely. But a great song, I think, I'm very proud of it.


I can't help but wonder: Are you "very proud of it," moms and dads of Solo? How does this make you feel about Morrissey?

Personally, I'm not sure what to think!

The fact that you automatically think sex is involved, in addition with another of your threads in OT just means you need to get laid.
 
I like this song a lot. It genuinely frightens me. In a nutshell: there is absolutely no defence against the determined psychopath. Our lives and everything that makes us feel happy and secure can be taken away in an instant. What could be more frightening than that? Morrissey certainly isn't advocating anything. I don't even think he's exploring the psychopath's perspective. I think he's just laying out the cold, hard, horrible facts.
 
I like this song a lot. It genuinely frightens me. In a nutshell: there is absolutely no defence against the determined psychopath. Our lives and everything that makes us feel happy and secure can be taken away in an instant. What could be more frightening than that? Morrissey certainly isn't advocating anything. I don't even think he's exploring the psychopath's perspective. I think he's just laying out the cold, hard, horrible facts.

I agree with this completely (and when I said that he takes on the perspective earlier, I meant it only in terms of narrative voice- "we" etc). :)
 
He could be writing something from a different point of view, or he might be being purposely misleading. Lots of his songs are so difficult to interpret.

I know there's a lot of debate on who Morrissey likes to sleep with, but I highly doubt he's a pedophile. In all likelihood, Morrissey's the type of fellow he needs emotional support and understanding more than he needs sex. I don't think children offer much in terms of a mutual relationship.

It's funny that I never listened to the lyrics of this tune very much - It's hard for me to get past those cheesy synths. :squiffy:
 
I think you're confused. Paedophilia has got nothing to do with being gay/straight.

I think you're confused: no one said that it did. Thank you for the PSA, of course. Neil Patrick Harris and Rachel Maddow want a group hug.

It doesn't make me 'feel' anything about Morrissey as, like the majority of his songs, it's social commentry

I appreciate that you're above feeling, you big intellectual. I also like that you spell "commentary" the way you probably pronounce it. Professor Higgins will see you now. As for the label of "social commentary," it's wonderfully vague. Anything can be social commentary. My point? You lack one.

However, the fact that Morrissey indicates that the aggressors are predatory, police-dodging individuals who you need to lock out and alarm your cars against, indicates quite clearly that he thinks they are scum…

This is an interesting portrait of Morrissey as McGruff the Crime Dog. I remember his past warnings about the nasty Kray brothers and other criminal types, for whom he famously has such contempt.

But do you know what the word "we" means, TheReader? Perspective, yes, I know, perspective, but humor me. You are told to bolt-lock your doors and alarm your cars as "we" move in closer every day. "And still" we move in closer--this is called taunting. Your precautions won't help you. We're "ambitious," after all. He's taunting the law-abiding breeders of the suburbs--and you think he's on their side, rather than that of some "scum"? Why are "we" there? The agenda is spelt out immediately: "Top of the list/Is your smiling kids." The point is reiterated in the next verse--Moz knows how dumb some of his fans are, possibly!

This is all pretty basic.

Morrissey himself--how eager some of you are to ignore his own words, as Mark Simpson has said--says that the song is "creeping towards" being a "NAMBLA theme song," as the interviewer had just put it. I did include that because I thought it was relevant? Just a bit? The writer's own words, about the aspect of the song I'm addressing? Hm? Everyone seems to be ignoring that, though! Is it inconvenient to your image of Morrissey?

Now, the matter of perspective, of characterization. What does Morrissey think, of the people discussed in the song? Again, the title: "Ambitious Outsiders"--not "scum," as you put it. Does the label "ambitious outsiders" sound very critical to you? If "we" are not the "ambitious outsiders," then who are? And what are "we" up to? We're hanging around bus stops, and picking locks.

Does "ambitious outsiders" sound like the phraseology of "scum" to you? Do you think they're applying this label to themselves? Could Morrissey be playing a character in the song, one with whom he doesn't sympathize? Sure, if you think the character titled the song. I'm pretty sure Morrissey titled it, though, as it's typical of his phraseology, not that of "scum." And I'm pretty sure Morrissey likes both ambition and outsiders--and the appearance of tremendous transgression.

Morrissey's attitudes toward the Moors killers and other criminals are ambiguous, to say the least. The rest of the interview--try reading it, though I expect it will give you no end of trouble--covers his love of dark material. Condemning criminals isn't "dark." If you want to understand the tradition Morrissey belongs to, read an Andre Gide novel. I'm sure you'll come away thinking it a cautionary tale about becoming too close with one's nephew.

To sum things up: your user name here is quite ironic, TheReader!

Edit: I now see you've been banned, and seemingly spent your entire time here being a complete and utter tosser - which now explains your above loaded question.

What reverence for Z-list authorities! I'm sorry you're not bright enough to understand Morrissey, a trait you share with at least one of the mods. Each of us has his cross to bear. I'll take being banned from a dead forum for knuckle-dragging suck-ups over perpetually, comically misunderstanding my favorite artist.

I think that bit just refers to the killing of the kids by someone (gay/str8,whatever)

Good point, entirely possible, but I still think that people who are "keeping the population down" are being pinpointed as the opposition to those I've been calling "breeders"--with their reprehensibly smiling kids, their delightfully vulnerable locks and bus stops, etc.

Incidentally, is anyone bothered by Morrissey's pro-rape song, "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore"? I feel so badly for the woman in that song, don't you?!

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't but for sure it's the worst song Morrissey has ever put his name to & by a considerable distance.

It's catchy!
 
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With relation to the narrative perspective- yes, Morrissey does/did have something of a fascination with "the romance of crime" and darkness, but taking on the narrative point of view doesn't necessarily entail advocation. I'd say, through the use of the title (which are both attributes he admires, but are also attributes the perpetrators would no doubt be pleased to apply to themselves) he is simply highlighting the mindset of the people who commit this sort of crime.

To sum things up: your user name here is quite ironic, TheReader!

What reverence for Z-list authorities! I'm sorry you're not bright enough to understand Morrissey, a trait you share with at least one of the mods. Each of us has his cross to bear. I'll take being banned from a dead forum for knuckle-dragging suck-ups over perpetually, comically misunderstanding my favorite artist.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with your godlike opinion is clearly not worthy of trying to interpret Morrissey's lyrics and is terribly unintelligent. Splendid! It all makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:
 
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The following is not lyric analysis but crazy Morrissey analysis so feel free to skip this.

[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzqe5Hcryek&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzqe5Hcryek&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

This is fascinating. A few interesting points is that Morrissey looks like he has a mohawk (raptor) in the video and you have to sort of just trust whoever the videographers is to help illustrate Morrissey's points as he accidentally shuffles the camera around, but it's fascinating to watch as Morrissey "shifts." He's doing that shifting thing where he plays both parts, the innocent stumbling about on stage shyly at the beginning and the evil only AFTER the videographer focuses on the light "fire" if you will. So then Morrissey embraces, not as a stance exactly but as a teaching tool in way, the f***ed up killer who wants to kill the children. He does this fascinating thing (remember, I don't believe he knows he's doing this stuff exactly. I'm not suggesting he's in a trance or anything, he's just preprogrammed to be a "great worker" as they call it in alternative teachings) where he sucks his finger and points up. He's getting his finger wet, like with water, and indicating UP. When the elements are out of balance, things like water and earth reside UP, fire and air down. They reverse their normal place in the world which indicates that something is askew and troublemakers are at the helm driving this "cosmic boat" if you will. It's a detailed thing to pick up on but in this video he's doing that. Morrissey's like a delicate human impartial indicator for the state of cosmic affairs in the mundane things that he does...especially on stage when a camera is rolling.

I followed up until the bolded print and then I was lost. Do you really believe this stuff or are you just messing with us? I'm all for madcap theories but you sound quite serious about it all :confused:.
 
Ha Ha. You're quite funny. I wasn't going to reply, but you've put so much effort in to your reply, and I've got time before I go out:

I think you're confused: no one said that it did. Thank you for the PSA, of course. Neil Patrick Harris and Rachel Maddow want a group hug.

I don't know who Neil Patrick Harris and Rachel Maddow are. I'm afraid I don't 'do' group hugs.


I appreciate that you're above feeling, you big intellectual. I also like that you spell "commentary" the way you probably pronounce it. Professor Higgins will see you now. As for the label of "social commentary," it's wonderfully vague. Anything can be social commentary. My point? You lack one.

Oh dear. Have you got a bit of a chip on your shoulder? I never said/implied I was 'above feeling' or that I was a 'big intellectual'. As you rightly pointed out, I can't even spell - but maybe you should check your original post for mistakes before you start criticising others? Yes, the label of 'social commentary' is vague - that was my point. It didn't make me feel anything in particular, because like pretty much everything it's general comment and open to interpretation.

This is an interesting portrait of Morrissey as McGruff the Crime Dog. I remember his past warnings about the nasty Kray brothers and other criminal types, for whom he famously has such contempt.

Don't know who McGruff is - is he like Droopy? Don't get your knickers in a twist over that little paragraph - it's was just a general summing up.

But do you know what the word "we" means, TheReader? Perspective, yes, I know, perspective, but humor me. You are told to bolt-lock your doors and alarm your cars as "we" move in closer every day. "And still" we move in closer--this is called taunting. Your precautions won't help you. We're "ambitious," after all. He's taunting the law-abiding breeders of the suburbs--and you think he's on their side, rather than that of some "scum"? Why are "we" there? The agenda is spelt out immediately: "Top of the list/Is your smiling kids." The point is reiterated in the next verse--Moz knows how dumb some of his fans are, possibly!

This is all pretty basic.

Morrissey himself--how eager some of you are to ignore his own words, as Mark Simpson has said--says that the song is "creeping towards" being a "NAMBLA theme song," as the interviewer had just put it. I did include that because I thought it was relevant? Just a bit? The writer's own words, about the aspect of the song I'm addressing? Hm? Everyone seems to be ignoring that, though! Is it inconvenient to your image of Morrissey?

Now, the matter of perspective, of characterization. What does Morrissey think, of the people discussed in the song? Again, the title: "Ambitious Outsiders"--not "scum," as you put it. Does the label "ambitious outsiders" sound very critical to you? If "we" are not the "ambitious outsiders," then who are? And what are "we" up to? We're hanging around bus stops, and picking locks.

Does "ambitious outsiders" sound like the phraseology of "scum" to you? Do you think they're applying this label to themselves? Could Morrissey be playing a character in the song, one with whom he doesn't sympathize? Sure, if you think the character titled the song. I'm pretty sure Morrissey titled it, though, as it's typical of his phraseology, not that of "scum." And I'm pretty sure Morrissey likes both ambition and outsiders--and the appearance of tremendous transgression.

Thanks for that. I've always had trouble with the word 'we'. And don't worry, I'm sure pretty much everyone in your life is 'humouring' you (that's the English spelling btw). With regard to those last few paragraphs - meh. That's your interpretation, I've got a different one. So very sorry (really) that I didn't spend ages extrapolating it in great detail for your benefit, but it's a general comment on a Morrissey forum, not a thesis. Get some perspective mate and maybe a shag - you seem very frustrated.


Morrissey's attitudes toward the Moors killers and other criminals are ambiguous, to say the least. The rest of the interview--try reading it, though I expect it will give you no end of trouble--covers his love of dark material. Condemning criminals isn't "dark." If you want to understand the tradition Morrissey belongs to, read an Andre Gide novel. I'm sure you'll come away thinking it a cautionary tale about becoming too close with one's nephew.

His attitude towards the Moors killers isn't ambiguous. I have read the interview before, although it was quite a while ago - easy peasy lemon squeezy - and have also read some Gide (not all of it - again, so sorry). You assume I haven't and then tell me what I'll think about it.


To sum things up: your user name here is quite ironic, TheReader!

It's not ironic - because you're wrong (see above) about so many things. And you're making assumptions again. I could have chosen 'TheReader' because I love to read - but in that case what do I read (I'm sure you'll tell me)? Proust or The Hungry Caterpillar? And if I did choose the name for that reason, and if I do read Proust - does it mean I think I'm an intellectual or any sort of authority. No it doesn't. Don't project onto me matey.

But 'Reader Meet Author' is also the title of a Morrissey song that I happen to love. Great guitars.


What reverence for Z-list authorities! I'm sorry you're not bright enough to understand Morrissey, a trait you share with at least one of the mods. Each of us has his cross to bear. I'll take being banned from a dead forum for knuckle-dragging suck-ups over perpetually, comically misunderstanding my favorite artist.

There's that great big chip on your shoulder again - but as you say, it's your cross to bear. And those that know you obviously - poor sods. I suppose they get a bit of respite though when you come back to a 'dead forum', to make wrong assumptions and tell people what they think - again wrongly. But, yes, if only we 'understood' Morrissey as well as you do. Is this 'understanding' based on your uncanny abilities to wrongly assume, read minds and interpret interviews in a way that suits you and which are, in any case, the subjective opinion of the interviewer and so already biased? In that case your 'understanding' of Morrissey is as flawed and totally inaccurate as your 'understanding' of me.


Good point, entirely possible, but I still think that people who are "keeping the population down" are being pinpointed as the opposition to those I've been calling "breeders"--with their reprehensibly smiling kids, their delightfully vulnerable locks and bus stops, etc.

Wow - you're sharp! What a unique and original viewpoint. :thumb: And 'breeders' - I think you invented that term! Very well done. I'm sure anon x will be able to sleep better at night knowing you agree. Vaidation from you - it's what we're all hoping for.

Incidentally, is anyone bothered by Morrissey's pro-rape song, "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore"? I feel so badly for the woman in that song, don't you?!

Am I bovvered? Is my face bovvered? No.

It's catchy!

To sum things up: I know, I know. You 'understand' Morrissey so much better than everyone else, he's yours, and none of us are worthy. Plus you're bored and frustrated so you have to resort to being a t***. Go and get laid by your cousin (you know, the one you were talking about the other day) and then maybe you won't get so upset by other people's general comments. I doubt she'll touch you with a barge pole. But if not, you can always come back to this 'dead forum' and start a fight.

I didn't have time to spell-check / re-read and I'm off out now, so please do let me know of any mistakes. I'm sure you've got plenty of time on your hands.


Aurevoir.
 
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I followed up until the bolded print and then I was lost. Do you really believe this stuff or are you just messing with us? I'm all for madcap theories but you sound quite serious about it all :confused:.

My initial response was to say "No I'm just f***ing with you." in order to maintain some semblance that I'm not a crazy person and have normal conversations with you all, but yes. I believe this stuff. :o

For many years I studied this way of "reading" things. I had a teacher, he taught me how to do it using movies. Now I do it using everything because it's like a language for weirdos. Morrissey is one of those weirdos. I read him. I think he appreciates it. He can sing he's a living sign all he wants but it doesn't really count until someone comes along trained to read him. :D Don't tell me I need therapy or that I'm psychotic, I've heard it all. :p
 
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Ha Ha. You're quite funny. I wasn't going to reply, but you've put so much effort in to your reply, and I've got time before I go out:



To sum things up: I know, I know. You 'understand' Morrissey so much better than everyone else, he's yours, and none of us are worthy. Plus you're bored and frustrated so you have to resort to being a t***. Go and get laid by your cousin (you know, the one you were talking about the other day) and then maybe you won't get so upset by other people's general comments. I doubt she'll touch you with a barge pole. But if not, you can always come back to this 'dead forum' and start a fight.

I didn't have time to spell-check / re-read and I'm off out now, so please do let me know of any mistakes. I'm sure you've got plenty of time on your hands.


Aurevoir.

Where did this conversation take place? :confused:
 
Where did this conversation take place? :confused:

'Genetic Sexual Attraction' under the name Novice though.

Lots of posts seem to be disappearing today.

God, I can't believe I bothered to write all of that stuff above. Have spent all my time ranting in various threads today. Don't want to turn into one of those whiney people that make the forum a horrible place to visit. Gaaah. That's what happens when you are woken by the sound of your neighbour's children screeching at each other at 5.45am :mad:
 
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