Years of Refusal is utterly brilliant

[One of your children]

i had to download it, id heard a handfull of tracks but needed to get more on this as ive been active in many of the yor threads.
All u neeed is me and its not your birthday and skull,paris (took a fair few listens of paris)are my favs the rest to me are the stock album fillers.
YATQ u have the anthems that make u jump up and shout from the roof tops and the slow tracks that are deep and full of soul,i find the other slow tracks on yor boring to be honest and dont stir up nothing for me! come back to camden,lazy dykes are slow deep and musicly amazing! and make u want to sing them to the world! and the whole album does.
morrissey uses many diffrent styles on each album and the only one that worked for me 100% is YATQ no track gets fw ever! and thats from the first listen in 2004?
maybe yor should have been a 5-6 track e.p?
but thats just me and who iam i lol hope the post makes sense iam in a bit of a rush

[Comtesse]

Comtesse,

Defensive aren't you? On the contrary, I do not think you sneer at everything Morrissey does. Obviously not, for anyone who has read your posts. In fact, I think you are somebody who had fair criticisms of Years of Refusal and almost named you in my post as such, but if you'd like to blow up instead, that's fine. Onto my claim about the album being daring (and notice I said "almost adventurous"). I think for one thing, yes, the Latin stylings on "Carol" are daring and when juxtaposed with Morrissey's voice and typical style, experimental by his standards. And the strange swirl of sounds and dialogue on "In Your Time," while a harkening back to old Moz songs like "Spring-heeled Jim" and "Black-eyed Susan," is still rather atypical and, I think, interesting. The vocal leaps on "Something is Squeezing My Skull" and "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" took some guts and I think came out fabulously. The instrumentation is more interesting -- the drums especially come out in a way unseen on any solo record I can think of, the Jeff Beck guitar parts on "Black Cloud," the shift in "Birthday," the delicate almost harp-like guitar line in "I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris," these are all subtleties that make up the best backdrop for Morrissey's voice in years. You don't like these flourishes. Good for you. But that's different from the album actually lacking flourishes. So get your argument straight please. If you think Ringleader was daring, you must be joking. That album was for the most part, vintage Moz-by-numbers (see the Allmusic review of the record).

Sorry for being defensive. I've been attacked quite a bit here lately, so I have my fists firmly in front of my face.

I agree that he takes some daring leaps vocally throughout the album. He is in fantastic voice throughout. But he's always been vocally daring, as I have discussed previously. There's nothing here that he hasn't done before - the vocals in "It's Not Your Birthday Anymore" (as gorgeous as they are) hearken back to previous vocal flights like "I Know It's Over" and the live version of "We'll Let You Know" with the falsetto break. The yodelling at the end of "I'm OK By Myself" hearkens back to "The Headmaster Ritual" and "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side" . There's nothing here as groundbreaking vocally as "Dear God Please Help Me" or "Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning".

Musically, I can't see where you're coming from. To me, this is the weakest music that Morrissey has ever sung over, especially songs like "All You Need Is Me" and "That's How People Grow Up". Dull chord progressions, a stunning lack of melody. There are a few good moments - like "Paris" (which actually has a degree of intricacy, amazingly enough) - but most of it is run-of-the-mill plod rock to me. I guess we'll chock this up to different taste in music.

And the reason I call Ringleader daring/adventurous? The strained voice and delicate piano of "Dear God, Please Help Me". The Indian musical stylings of "I Will See You In Far Off Places" (I hate that song, but you have to admit it's adventurous). The dramatic opening of "Life Is A Pigsty" where Boz actually plays champagne glasses. The eclectic, operatic, cymbal-crashing spaghetti western sound of "At Last I Am Born". The child chorus in "The Youngest Was The Most Loved," "The Father Who Must Be Killed" and "At Last I Am Born". And lyrically, Morrissey takes risks by embracing happiness and hope in "At Last I Am Born" and "Dear God Please Help Me" (among others), and he takes huge risks in vulnerability with lines like "Now I'm spreading your legs with mine in between".

Now, I'm not saying all these things are GOOD, but they're daring. The Visconti production makes even the musically bland songs on Ringleader sound interesting, like when he blends the ambulance siren into the guitar notes at the beginning of "The Youngest Was The Most Loved". I can't help but wonder how much better Years Of Refusal would have been with Visconti behind the helm.

Oh well, I have to get back to work... thankfully, I'm sure!

[justme]

I must say that I tried and I failed. I didn't download the album, but last night at a friend's house I heard it and I LOVED IT

It's very different from what I expected but in a good way- it's full of energy and it sounds very good and fresh.

Skull is a great open track - better than the live versions -fantastic even.
Mama - well I love that song
Black cloud is nice - for now that's all I can say, it may grow on me.
Paris is Beautiful - also better than the live version as we all know
AYNIM is great - but that is old news
When I last spoke to Carol - the first shock of the evening - I couldn't imagine a song like that in the Morrissey's Canon - to me it's Brilliant , and got everyone dancing!
THPGU - never really liked this song very much - it is OK in the album context but my least favorite
One Day Goobye will be farewell - didn't do much to me, it's just OK but it may grow on me latter
It's not your birthday anymore - Second shock of the evening - Such a gentle beautiful voice and melody - and the lyrics ... just amazing!
You were good in your time - Another beautiful song - reminded me of I know it's gonna happen someday, it had that feeling.
Sorry doesn't help - didn't do much to me on first listen - It's OK and reminded my of Quarry -era songs for some reason
I'm OK by myself - THird Shock of the evening - What a great song! the best Jessie has ever written with Moz- better than YHKM and AYNIM in my opinion. Reminded me slightly of Sweet and tender Holligan but with a Joy division bass line. Morrissey's delivery is just amazing and a great album closer!!

So in the end I loved it -even more that I expected. Usually Moz albuns tend to take sometime to work on me. I felt this one was more immediate - and I already know it's going to be one of my favorites -I'm not saying the best but certainly up there with the best, imo.

I really like Tormentors but it didn't have the impact YoR just had on first listen. I'm quite happy. Oh, and just wait to hear these songs live this is going to be a hell of a tour


CONCLUSION: I had already ordered YoR (Cd+DVD) so when I got home,ordered YoR vinyl and paris singles (the 3 format bundle) - and I'll wait for them for a proper listen in repeat mode.

[LukaInExile]

With ROTT, people forced themselves to like the album when it first leaked. the word grower was used much too often. You do not see that with this album. People arent saying it is his best, but above average and good. i enjoy it.

ROTT does have some good songs. In the end over half of it was boring. I look for 75% or more good songs in an album to be considered good or great. YOR passes this test.

[Vauxhall95]

With ROTT, people forced themselves to like the album when it first leaked. the word grower was used much too often. You do not see that with this album. People arent saying it is his best, but above average and good. i enjoy it.

ROTT does have some good songs. In the end over half of it was boring. I look for 75% or more good songs in an album to be considered good or great. YOR passes this test.

Obviously, I disagree with your assessment that, "With ROTT, people forced themselves to like the album when it first leaked." Nobody forced me to like, I just did.

My whole take on YOR might be radically different if I hadn't listened to so many concerts which contained six of the album's 12 songs. For me, this album is boring. Of the new six songs, only "It's Not Your Birthday" really stands out.

[Je Suis Julie]

Other people agree:

Years Of Refusal
"In a word, brilliant..."

http://www.clashmusic.com/reviews/morrissey

[justme]

Obviously, I disagree with your assessment that, "With ROTT, people forced themselves to like the album when it first leaked." Nobody forced me to like, I just did.

My whole take on YOR might be radically different if I hadn't listened to so many concerts which contained six of the album's 12 songs. For me, this album is boring. Of the new six songs, only "It's Not Your Birthday" really stands out.

Vauxhall I just can't agree when you say that the album (to you) is boring because you listened to half of the songs many times before. It cannot affect its quality, otherwise every record would be terribly boring
after a few months of its release.

I love mama -Always have since the first time I heard it - I've listened to the song before and remains a favorite of mine.

So you're not so keen of YoR, I'll tell you a secret - I skip the 3 last songs of Viva Hate, every time (unlike most of you I assume)- In the end it's all a matter of taste or your personal situation at the time you first listened, etc.

[Vauxhall95]

So you're not so keen of YoR, I'll tell you a secret - I skip the 3 last songs of Viva Hate, every time (unlike most of you I assume)- In the end it's all a matter of taste or your personal situation at the time you first listened, etc.

BLASPHEMER! Seriously, music is subjective. To me "You Are The Quarry" is an amazing album. Five stars. Yet others dismiss it outright.

In the end, what bothers me about YOR the first time I listened to it and to this very day is (what I perceive) to be the usual lyrical punch most Morrissey albums have. To me, YOR is Morrissey-lite. To others the lyrics aren't important. They care about what Morrissey looks like, or how he smacks a tambourine(?!?). I want the sardonic wit and gallows humor.

Still and all, like I've always written, I still have great hope for the b-sides as traditionally Morrissey has written some stellar b-sides.

[Comtesse]

My whole take on YOR might be radically different if I hadn't listened to so many concerts which contained six of the album's 12 songs. For me, this album is boring. Of the new six songs, only "It's Not Your Birthday" really stands out.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I had this same problem with You Are The Quarry too - I knew many of the songs already from hearing them live. It's my own fool fault for listening to too many bootlegs. It takes all of the surprise away. I wonder what my opinion would be if I'd just heard all of the Years Of Refusalsongs for the first time on the album?

[Pervomartovtsi]

i got bored as hell, dissapointed, even sad

[One of your children]

Obviously, I disagree with your assessment that, "With ROTT, people forced themselves to like the album when it first leaked." Nobody forced me to like, I just did.

My whole take on YOR might be radically different if I hadn't listened to so many concerts which contained six of the album's 12 songs. For me, this album is boring. Of the new six songs, only "It's Not Your Birthday" really stands out.

Iam with u on that! i like a few more but birthday u can actully hear morrissey! i think the problem maybe his voice on most tracks is very studio,as most albums his voice is very raw(good thing) this album could be over produced to a smooth blend,but usally u hear morrissey and the music seperate but together! and that ables me to really judge the album all round!

[Vauxhall95]

Yeah, I feel the same way. I had this same problem with You Are The Quarry too - I knew many of the songs already from hearing them live. It's my own fool fault for listening to too many bootlegs. It takes all of the surprise away. I wonder what my opinion would be if I'd just heard all of the Years Of Refusalsongs for the first time on the album?

That's interesting because I didn't listen to any bootlegs before YATQ, so it was all fresh to me.

In the case of YOR, I think it would have made a marked difference in my opinion of the album.

[One of your children]

BLASPHEMER! Seriously, music is subjective. To me "You Are The Quarry" is an amazing album. Five stars. Yet others dismiss it outright.

In the end, what bothers me about YOR the first time I listened to it and to this very day is (what I perceive) to be the usual lyrical punch most Morrissey albums have. To me, YOR is Morrissey-lite. To others the lyrics aren't important. They care about what Morrissey looks like, or how he smacks a tambourine(?!?). I want the sardonic wit and gallows humor.

Still and all, like I've always written, I still have great hope for the b-sides as traditionally Morrissey has written some stellar b-sides.

[Comtesse]

That's interesting because I didn't listen to any bootlegs before YATQ, so it was all fresh to me.

In the case of YOR, I think it would have made a marked difference in my opinion of the album.

I attended lots of shows during the 2002 tour so I heard "I Like You," "Mexico," "First of the Gang To Die," "The World Is Full Of Crashing Bores," and "Irish Blood, English Heart" repeatedly before the album came out. They were all "old" to me.

[One of your children]

OH and YATQ had something to say it hit on so many subjects!
the best morrissey album from track 1 to 12!
i cant see people going mental at yor gigs like we do for tracks like irish blood and first of the gang!
ANTHEMS of the moz solo!

[David]

I saw "Paris" and "One Day" live and heard "Skull" and "Mama" in bootlegs before the record was released. To me it did not affect the quality of the album. I was just excited to hear them in the proper context in which the artist wanted them presented. And Vauxhall, I love Morrissey's music for the same reasons you do, and I think Years of Refusal showcases Morrissey with an arsenal of passion and pathos and humor.

[LukaInExile]

OH and YATQ had something to say it hit on so many subjects!
the best morrissey album from track 1 to 12!
i cant see people going mental at yor gigs like we do for tracks like irish blood and first of the gang!
ANTHEMS of the moz solo!

Many disagree and think YATQ is lifeless. It did not pass my 75% test that i mentioned above.

mental for Irish Blood? Yes, casual fans like any song that get a lot of airplay on the radio. Most the people who went mental for it are those who discovered morrissey because of Irish Blood on the radio. they at the time did not recognize earlier moz songs.

It may be a good album to mainstream expectations, but YATQ is not Morrissey.

[Vauxhall95]

I saw "Paris" and "One Day" live and heard "Skull" and "Mama" in bootlegs before the record was released. To me it did not affect the quality of the album. I was just excited to hear them in the proper context in which the artist wanted them presented. And Vauxhall, I love Morrissey's music for the same reasons you do, and I think Years of Refusal showcases Morrissey with an arsenal of passion and pathos and humor.

Hi David,

Glad you are back. Can you elaborate on, "...an arsenal of passion and pathos and humor?" To me, the imagery and metaphors he uses are cliche and trite. I mean "Black Cloud?" That was cool like twenty years ago in a Billy Bragg tune, Must I Paint You a Picture. Is there anything on this album that can come close to these lyrics?

It's bad timing and me
We find a lot of things out this way
And there's you
A little black cloud in a dress
The temptation
To take the precious things we have apart
To see how they work
Must be resisted for they never fit together again
If this is rain let it fall on me and drown me
If these are tears let them fall
Chorus:
Must I paint you a picture
About the way that I feel
You know my love for you is strong, girl
You know my love for you is real
It took a short walk and a talk
To change the rules of engagement
While you searched frantically for reverse and them claiming
That virtue never tested is no virtue at all
And so I lost my ignorance
And now the bells across the river chime out your name
I look across to them again
All your friends said come down
It will never fly
And on that imperfect day
We threw it all away
Crisis after crisis, with such intensity
This would never happen if we lived by the sea
Most important decisions in life
Are made between two people in bed
I found that out at my expense
And when I see you
You just turn around and walk away like we never met
Oh we used to be so brave
I dreamt the world stopped turning as we climbed the hill
I dreamt impossible dreams that we were lovers still

Billy Bragg Must I Paint You A Picture lyrics

[justme]

BLASPHEMER! Seriously, music is subjective. To me "You Are The Quarry" is an amazing album. Five stars. Yet others dismiss it outright.

In the end, what bothers me about YOR the first time I listened to it and to this very day is (what I perceive) to be the usual lyrical punch most Morrissey albums have. To me, YOR is Morrissey-lite. To others the lyrics aren't important. They care about what Morrissey looks like, or how he smacks a tambourine(?!?). I want the sardonic wit and gallows humor.

Still and all, like I've always written, I still have great hope for the b-sides as traditionally Morrissey has written some stellar b-sides.

Lyrics are very important to me as well. That's what got me into Moz in the first place. I really don't think YoR is Poor lyric wise. Skull is funny but , as someone said, sadly a very accurate modern life portrait. Carol is very intriguing, just like the smiths "what she said" was intriguing - you wonder about theses characters (I know I do). Plus Carol is so cinematic- I trully loved it. Birthday is fantastic, I really like you were good in your time lyrics, etc. Other are lighter, as you say, but I always find something in them. And the albu it's full of details,sounds, movies, as usual - and I love that.

what I think has changed is his lyrics style of writting, compared with his earlier - but it has been so since Quarry (which I also like very,very much ). It's what I like to call The late-Moz phase

I think You and Comtesse should stop going to gigs before Moz releases an album (or bring some ear plugs with you , just in case ah,ah )

[Vauxhall95]

Many disagree and think YATQ is lifeless. It did not pass my 75% test that i mentioned above.

mental for Irish Blood? Yes, casual fans like any song that get a lot of airplay on the radio. Most the people who went mental for it are those who discovered morrissey because of Irish Blood on the radio. they at the time did not recognize earlier moz songs.

It may be a good album to mainstream expectations, but YATQ is not Morrissey.

"All the Lazy Dykes? Come Back to Camden? The World is Full of Crashing Bores? America is Not the World?" are not Morrissey tunes? Come one, that seems patently unfair.