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Thread: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

  1. #1

    Default Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    I only discovered the album had leaked at around midnight last night. I had to make the conscious descision of going against my morals and downloading - i will buy the album in February anyway - that makes it OK, right? No? Well, i've established my lack of morals - but was disregarding what I stand for worth it?

    Upon first impressions, yes. Upon hearing 'Something is Squeezing My Skull' as the opening track, I started to make comparisons to the traditional Morrissey album opening tracks - this song is a very different way to start the album for Morrissey. A jaunty, two and a half minute long stomper, in the vain of both glam and post punk - with Morrissey spitting 'you swore you would not give me more!'? An original idea for opening the album, I thought, and one that could potentially pave the way for his most original album of the decade, but ultimatley not a particularly original Morrissey song.

    The second track, 'Mama Lay Softly On The Riverbed'. My favourite track from the live showcasing of YoR songs, I feel it is the most musically interesting song the boys have written in a long time. The drums are intimidating, the lyrics delicate, and the guitars stomping. However, I was dissapointed with Finn's descision to remove the weird, flamboyant and wonderful synth sounds that made the song so intreguing when played live.

    And three songs in, we have a new song. 'Black Cloud'. The short stringed introduction the track was magnificent upon first listen, with the use of sampling that I love Morrissey so much for. Not a fan of the echo effect on the guitars at the beginning, but when the song kicks in with that squelchy synth and stomping drums - yes, this is a brilliant song. Never a single, but a brilliant album track that will be a wonder live. 'I can change you, and I can catch you, but there is nothing I can do to make you mine..' - typical Morrissey, but I'm starting to sense a massive change in musical direction with YoR - the compositions are much more dynamic, melodic and powerful than we've heard from Morrissey since, indeed, Vauxhall & I.

    'I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris' - the perfect lead single (it is technically the lead single!!). Short, very sweet and very romantic. Musically nostalgic, I find, and reminiscent of, dare I say it, The Smiths. Morrissey's Myspace described the song as 'a cosmopolitan hymn to architecture' - this sums up the track perfectly, starting with the nostalgic motorcycle - this song is cinematic both lyrically and melodically. Surely a top five hit, at least?

    'All You Need Is Me'. This is where my opinion of the record starts to change slightly. I knew the song would feature on the record, but within the context of the album - it is, I feel, completely out of place. The song is quite frankly boring now, and somewhat of an anti-climax to the anticipation of YoR. Why on earth 'My Dearest Love' isn't track 5 of YoR is completely beyond me. But, I thought, I will see where the album takes me now - maybe this is a ploy in Morrissey's plans to steer the direction of the album?

    'When Last I Spoke To Carol' - latin, sexy, cinematic, and lyrically devine. The song I was most excited for upon reading the lyrics a few months back. I again feel that the band have undergone a radical creative surge within this album, this is musically fantastic. The subtle horns give the track an intensity and power that lends itself to the sheer force of the overall instrumentation, with Morrissey's lyrics acting as an interesting contrast - delicate and poetic - amongst the best lyrics of Morrissey's entire career.

    'That's How People Grow Up' - hated it then, hate it now. The song clomps along with, to be fair, mildly interesting lyrics - and that cowbell! Christ, it is quite awful. Completely unnecessary, again. Although none of us have heard it, this could have been an ideal place for 'Shame is the Name'? The second flaw of the album so far, I feel, and responsible for the album not realising it's full potential - I don't know whether Morrissey genuinely thinks this is a good song, or included a familiar single on ill-judgement, but it doesn't work - and the inclusion of the two GH singles taints the album.

    'One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell' - not a fan. Heard the song live and deemed it to be completely average - a Moz paint by numbers. The melody is predictable, and the lyrics fail to engage, with the one thing that oringally intreguied me - the horns - being removed? It is opon hearing ODGWBF that I begin to doubt the structure of the album, and further question certain songs featured.

    'It's Not Your Birthday Anymore' - with that drum beat. Love it or loathe it? Love it. Musically epic, once again, this is definatley a potential single, if the length was slightly shortened. Morrissey's melody sounds honest, he sounds as if he has full belief in the band and the music - his voice is once again stunning, and the lyrics are painfully honest. Musically, it was a breath of fresh air within the album, with a beautiful arrangement, exploiting dynamics to it's full potential. It is at this point I feel moved to tears, the power of this song is undeniable, and in my 'first listen to new album' haze I boldly declare it one of the best songs of Morrissey's entire career. I still maintain.

    'You Were Good In Your Time' - cinematic and poetic in the vain of 'It's Not Your Birthday Anymore', I begin to hope the album has swerved into an area of lyrical and musical poetics. Musically the song reminds me, initially of Nancy's 'Shoot You Down', before the chorus reveals a beautiful torch song. Again, the band have undergone a radically new creative process, and it has yielded beautiful results. Especially with the sudden drop of the song, after Morrissey's informs 'you have just died..'. A minute and a half of samples and sounds that, for once, I feel Morrissey completely identifies with - they add mystique and power to the closing lyric, and the presence of the section is a daring and, I feel, creatively vital move that pays off. The romance and resonance of the last two songs has overwhelmed me.

    'Sorry Doesn't Help' - initially sounds like a YATQ B-Side. Oh no, no, no, no. The romance and beauty of the last two songs has gone, the album has swerved and completely changed direction. This song isn't bad, as such, but poorly placed within the album. Ending the album on 'You Were Good In Your Time' would have been perfect. 'Sorry won't bring my teen years back to me any time soon..' - this is a clompy and fails to engage me, which is a complete contrast to the power of the previous two songs. The chorus is lazy and predictable, and the song is musically incompetent when compared to the brilliance of other tracks on the record.

    'I'm OK By Myself' - the final track. I am confused as to what has happened - why are these two tracks here within the album? Any resonance and beauty conjured with INYBA and YWGIYT are, ultimately, discarded. This song is, however, not that bad - but it is definately a track two/three song - why Morrissey chose to end the album on this song is beyond me. The lyrics in the song are OK, not a patch on lyrics throughout the album, but OK. The music is OK, mildly pacey but predictable. The track ends with a Morrissey yodel through a distorted microphone over the bands raunchy cruscendo.

    So there it is, Years of Refusal. After three years of waiting, it's here. Although a flawed album in a few aspects, the album does contain some of the best songs of Morrissey's career. The lyrical brilliance of When Last I Spoke To Carol, the power of Mama Lay Softly, the romance of Paris, and the unquestionable beauty of It's Not Your Birthday Anymore.

    It was almost perfect, so very close to perfect. The musical excellence of the band is unquestionable, with the sheer creativity bringing the record into realms untouched by YATQ, and only slightly touched upon with ROTT.
    However the record is let down by the inclusion of the GH singles, and the sometimes ill-judged record architecture.

    But, quite easily, one of Morrissey's best albums. It is an exciting time to be a Morrissey fan.
    Last edited by raincoated lover; January 7, 2009 at 02:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member international playboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    wow! thanks for the in depth thoughts on the album.
    I have tried not to read much into the new album, as i want it to be almost a surprise. Sadly i will not be downloading it. I have been looking forward to the album too long and i cannot wait to recieve it.
    Anyway by what i have read; i am really excited about the new direction of the album.
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  3. #3
    Krayism Reggie-Kray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    That's a well written review - can't say I agree with all of it but, no doubt, you've listened to the album and thought about it with measured response, which is a nice change from the rantings that sometimes appear here I enjoyed reading it
    Anyway, I've had several listens myself - it's been helping me through the cold winter mornings when out running. I have it loaded up on the MP3 and I really like it more with each listen. Paris was an instant grabber on me, I just liked it from the opening bars as soon as I heard it. So far my favourite is Black Cloud, and contrary to your review, I actually like the echo effect on the guitars, it just has a certain dreamy ambience coming in over that weird pitched vocal sample and you know it's building up to something - which it obviously does pretty quickly. When I first heard 'Carol', I though what a strange song, but that one has been stuck in my head all morning after listening to it and I really like the Morricone-style music and whistling. The whole song is just mad but in a great way because it has that sombre storyline over the Western style epic film score. I love the staccato guitars too, kind of reminds me of Rendezvous by Bassment Jaxx, which happens to be a favourite song of mine also 'Birthday' is a fantastic song, although my only issue with this song is the way the drums have been mixed so muffled with that lo-fi effect in the verses. I know why that is, it's probably to add more drama to the chorus, which it obviously does, but it will make the verses so hard to bloody dance to I wonder will they do a radio mix of this song with the verse drums louder. It was obviously recorded as a rockier song when it was done. It's great to listen to when not dancing though, all the same. Apart from the obvious singles which have been reviewed to death, I'm still on early listens with the rest of the album but my feelings are that this will be judged as one of his best. You know, I have the entire back catalogue of the man plus The Smiths on my MP3, probably a lot of us do, and as great as it all is, I'm bored of listening to the same stuff over and over, so it's really great to hear this new stuff which happens to be fantastic. With that in mind, I'd say at this point in time that with the choice between my own historic favourite, Vauxhall & I and Years Of Refusal, I feel compelled to keep listening to this new album and like it more with each listen. Perhaps it will become my favourite yet, who knows, but I think it is Moz at his best. I am absolutely loving this album. Great work Moz, and I WILL buy the album when it comes out because I don't like cabinets full of CDR's with felt pen writing on
    Last edited by Reggie-Kray; January 7, 2009 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Tired again, tried again southpaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Thanks for the review, always interesting to read peoples reactions but the fact that you are indifferent about the only two decent songs in the album (Skull, OK by myself) says it all really...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw View Post
    Thanks for the review, always interesting to read peoples reactions but the fact that you are indifferent about the only two decent songs in the album (Skull, OK by myself) says it all really...
    I suppose so, because unless people have the same opinion then one of them must be invalid. Sorry, I only just realised this now...

  6. #6
    moz angeles Sore Lips's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by raincoated lover View Post
    I suppose so, because unless people have the same opinion then one of them must be invalid. Sorry, I only just realised this now...
    Well, I think that when you take the time to write such an in depth analysis of your own feelings/thoughts about the album you expose yourself to being criticized for your taste.

    I appreciate reading other people's thoughts on the album, especially when it is still so new and the excitement of new material makes the board come alive. I agree with you on some points, particularly because I have fallen in love with I'm Throwing my Arms Around Paris.

    However, I still go back to You Are The Quarry after I listen to Years of Refusal. Those songs resonating more than the ones on the current album. Because of this, I believe Quarry was the better album. Am I right or wrong? No answer there.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    havent downloaded,wont download..."morals" nothing to do with it...the waiting is good and prefer to have the actual recording in my hands...but that is a deep review and probably far better than any yet to appear in the music press...thank you for that

  8. #8
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Thank you for the review, very insightful and well written.

  9. #9
    Lust a prima vista bored's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by raincoated lover View Post
    And three songs in, we have a new song. 'Black Cloud'. The short stringed introduction the track was magnificent upon first listen, with the use of sampling that I love Morrissey so much for. Not a fan of the echo effect on the guitars at the beginning, but when the song kicks in with that squelchy synth and stomping drums - yes, this is a brilliant song. Never a single, but a brilliant album track that will be a wonder live. 'I can change you, and I can catch you, but there is nothing I can do to make you mine..' - typical Morrissey, but I'm starting to sense a massive change in musical direction with YoR - the compositions are much more dynamic, melodic and powerful than we've heard from Morrissey since, indeed, Vauxhall & I.
    I love this song but I think that Jeff Beck really got cheated here.
    Just as a great guitar solo is about to break out at the end of the song, 2 bars into it, the song ends. Ok, so I have no idea if that was Jeff Beck or someone else but what would the point of Jeff Beck playing rhythm guitar on a track?
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    Junior Member Fawdy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    I've listened to it fully only once and I have to say it sounds tremendous. In fact I think I'm going to love it like You are the Quarry and even Vauxhall and I. When I get my MP3 speakers fixed the Wife and I are going to have a 'first official listen night' this saturday night. It'll no doubt take me back to that day I can clearly remember when I took the Queen is Dead back to my student flat on the day of it's release. Me and my mates sat around listening to it over and over is awed silence. It won't be quite the same as 22 years ago but I'm looking forward to it anyway. And yes I will buy the album.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    What does anyone else think? Would be interesting to see who agrees and disagrees with points I've made..

  12. #12
    Starved Of Mirth Comtesse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by bored View Post
    I love this song but I think that Jeff Beck really got cheated here.
    Just as a great guitar solo is about to break out at the end of the song, 2 bars into it, the song ends. Ok, so I have no idea if that was Jeff Beck or someone else but what would the point of Jeff Beck playing rhythm guitar on a track?
    Actually, I had the opposite opinion. "Oh, thank goodness they cut out that guitar solo!" Really, a few notes of Jeff Beck is all we need. They exhibited good restraint here.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Comtesse View Post
    Actually, I had the opposite opinion. "Oh, thank goodness they cut out that guitar solo!" Really, a few notes of Jeff Beck is all we need. They exhibited good restraint here.
    i agree - i'm not a huge fan of jeff beck and i'm glad they didn't succomb to his presence and include the solo.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    For the most part I agree with you. On ODGWBF, I think the main problem with it is the very lackluster ending and the fact that the drumming sounds too similar to Mama and Carol, which are both better songs. And I like I'm OK as the closer, I dread the very thought of YWGIYT being the closer as every single interviewer would be asking him if this is his way of saying goodbye, etc. And the threads on the forum about it would be an absolute total horror!

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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    I've been mildly obsessed with "Paris" since the last tour and I'm glad I don't have to watch live versions on Youtube now!

    I loved "That's How People Grow Up" live, but I really wish they hadn't added Kristeen Young's caterwauling. It feels out of place and sort of jarring - we get it, whistle register, why NOW?

    'Carol' and 'It's Not Your Birthday' are two of my favorites.

    'Goodbye/Farewell' is exactly what people are talking about when they make fun of Moz for being dreary

    I think the last two songs are fine, but unspecial - I agree that they sound like YATQ b-sides.

  16. #16
    I Know It's Over... Vauxhall95's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    I disagree with nearly everything you've written, but thank you for taking the time to write down your thoughts. Music is subjective, so we all will like/dislike certain elements. I'm particularly surprised by your analysis of "You Were Good in Your Time." You write, "...the presence of the section is a daring and, I feel, creatively vital move that pays off." I couldn't disagree more. It eviscerates what otherwise was a beautiful, dare I say, classic Morrissey song. I find nothing daring about it. It's been done before by Morrissey (Moonriver, Blackeyed Susan) to catastrophic effect. It's self indulgent and vanity run wildly amuck.

    Let's start there...

    Quote Originally Posted by raincoated lover View Post
    I only discovered the album had leaked at around midnight last night. I had to make the conscious descision of going against my morals and downloading - i will buy the album in February anyway - that makes it OK, right? No? Well, i've established my lack of morals - but was disregarding what I stand for worth it?

    Upon first impressions, yes. Upon hearing 'Something is Squeezing My Skull' as the opening track, I started to make comparisons to the traditional Morrissey album opening tracks - this song is a very different way to start the album for Morrissey. A jaunty, two and a half minute long stomper, in the vain of both glam and post punk - with Morrissey spitting 'you swore you would not give me more!'? An original idea for opening the album, I thought, and one that could potentially pave the way for his most original album of the decade, but ultimatley not a particularly original Morrissey song.

    The second track, 'Mama Lay Softly On The Riverbed'. My favourite track from the live showcasing of YoR songs, I feel it is the most musically interesting song the boys have written in a long time. The drums are intimidating, the lyrics delicate, and the guitars stomping. However, I was dissapointed with Finn's descision to remove the weird, flamboyant and wonderful synth sounds that made the song so intreguing when played live.

    And three songs in, we have a new song. 'Black Cloud'. The short stringed introduction the track was magnificent upon first listen, with the use of sampling that I love Morrissey so much for. Not a fan of the echo effect on the guitars at the beginning, but when the song kicks in with that squelchy synth and stomping drums - yes, this is a brilliant song. Never a single, but a brilliant album track that will be a wonder live. 'I can change you, and I can catch you, but there is nothing I can do to make you mine..' - typical Morrissey, but I'm starting to sense a massive change in musical direction with YoR - the compositions are much more dynamic, melodic and powerful than we've heard from Morrissey since, indeed, Vauxhall & I.

    'I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris' - the perfect lead single (it is technically the lead single!!). Short, very sweet and very romantic. Musically nostalgic, I find, and reminiscent of, dare I say it, The Smiths. Morrissey's Myspace described the song as 'a cosmopolitan hymn to architecture' - this sums up the track perfectly, starting with the nostalgic motorcycle - this song is cinematic both lyrically and melodically. Surely a top five hit, at least?

    'All You Need Is Me'. This is where my opinion of the record starts to change slightly. I knew the song would feature on the record, but within the context of the album - it is, I feel, completely out of place. The song is quite frankly boring now, and somewhat of an anti-climax to the anticipation of YoR. Why on earth 'My Dearest Love' isn't track 5 of YoR is completely beyond me. But, I thought, I will see where the album takes me now - maybe this is a ploy in Morrissey's plans to steer the direction of the album?

    'When Last I Spoke To Carol' - latin, sexy, cinematic, and lyrically devine. The song I was most excited for upon reading the lyrics a few months back. I again feel that the band have undergone a radical creative surge within this album, this is musically fantastic. The subtle horns give the track an intensity and power that lends itself to the sheer force of the overall instrumentation, with Morrissey's lyrics acting as an interesting contrast - delicate and poetic - amongst the best lyrics of Morrissey's entire career.

    'That's How People Grow Up' - hated it then, hate it now. The song clomps along with, to be fair, mildly interesting lyrics - and that cowbell! Christ, it is quite awful. Completely unnecessary, again. Although none of us have heard it, this could have been an ideal place for 'Shame is the Name'? The second flaw of the album so far, I feel, and responsible for the album not realising it's full potential - I don't know whether Morrissey genuinely thinks this is a good song, or included a familiar single on ill-judgement, but it doesn't work - and the inclusion of the two GH singles taints the album.

    'One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell' - not a fan. Heard the song live and deemed it to be completely average - a Moz paint by numbers. The melody is predictable, and the lyrics fail to engage, with the one thing that oringally intreguied me - the horns - being removed? It is opon hearing ODGWBF that I begin to doubt the structure of the album, and further question certain songs featured.

    'It's Not Your Birthday Anymore' - with that drum beat. Love it or loathe it? Love it. Musically epic, once again, this is definatley a potential single, if the length was slightly shortened. Morrissey's melody sounds honest, he sounds as if he has full belief in the band and the music - his voice is once again stunning, and the lyrics are painfully honest. Musically, it was a breath of fresh air within the album, with a beautiful arrangement, exploiting dynamics to it's full potential. It is at this point I feel moved to tears, the power of this song is undeniable, and in my 'first listen to new album' haze I boldly declare it one of the best songs of Morrissey's entire career. I still maintain.

    'You Were Good In Your Time' - cinematic and poetic in the vain of 'It's Not Your Birthday Anymore', I begin to hope the album has swerved into an area of lyrical and musical poetics. Musically the song reminds me, initially of Nancy's 'Shoot You Down', before the chorus reveals a beautiful torch song. Again, the band have undergone a radically new creative process, and it has yielded beautiful results. Especially with the sudden drop of the song, after Morrissey's informs 'you have just died..'. A minute and a half of samples and sounds that, for once, I feel Morrissey completely identifies with - they add mystique and power to the closing lyric, and the presence of the section is a daring and, I feel, creatively vital move that pays off. The romance and resonance of the last two songs has overwhelmed me.

    'Sorry Doesn't Help' - initially sounds like a YATQ B-Side. Oh no, no, no, no. The romance and beauty of the last two songs has gone, the album has swerved and completely changed direction. This song isn't bad, as such, but poorly placed within the album. Ending the album on 'You Were Good In Your Time' would have been perfect. 'Sorry won't bring my teen years back to me any time soon..' - this is a clompy and fails to engage me, which is a complete contrast to the power of the previous two songs. The chorus is lazy and predictable, and the song is musically incompetent when compared to the brilliance of other tracks on the record.

    'I'm OK By Myself' - the final track. I am confused as to what has happened - why are these two tracks here within the album? Any resonance and beauty conjured with INYBA and YWGIYT are, ultimately, discarded. This song is, however, not that bad - but it is definately a track two/three song - why Morrissey chose to end the album on this song is beyond me. The lyrics in the song are OK, not a patch on lyrics throughout the album, but OK. The music is OK, mildly pacey but predictable. The track ends with a Morrissey yodel through a distorted microphone over the bands raunchy cruscendo.

    So there it is, Years of Refusal. After three years of waiting, it's here. Although a flawed album in a few aspects, the album does contain some of the best songs of Morrissey's career. The lyrical brilliance of When Last I Spoke To Carol, the power of Mama Lay Softly, the romance of Paris, and the unquestionable beauty of It's Not Your Birthday Anymore.

    It was almost perfect, so very close to perfect. The musical excellence of the band is unquestionable, with the sheer creativity bringing the record into realms untouched by YATQ, and only slightly touched upon with ROTT.
    However the record is let down by the inclusion of the GH singles, and the sometimes ill-judged record architecture.

    But, quite easily, one of Morrissey's best albums. It is an exciting time to be a Morrissey fan.
    You guys have it real easy. I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by international playboy View Post
    wow! thanks for the in depth thoughts on the album.
    I have tried not to read much into the new album, as i want it to be almost a surprise. Sadly i will not be downloading it. I have been looking forward to the album too long and i cannot wait to recieve it.
    Anyway by what i have read; i am really excited about the new direction of the album.
    listened to the album its divine apart from carol tune

  18. #18
    Senior Member brutalityobscene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Years of Refusal - My Thoughts

    I was thinking "You Were Good In Your Time" would have been a wonderful companion piece to "Sweetie Pie"

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