"The Hand That Rocks the Cradle"

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Papillon

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I recently had a discussion with a fellow Morrissey fan in which the other person denied *any* connotation of child molestation or "man/boy love" in "The Hand That Rocks the Cradle." He said he'd never even heard anyone suggest such a thing, and this is someone who was listening to The Smiths from the very beginning. It frankly made me feel that something might be wrong with *me*. Naturally, I don't think that Morrissey is a nonce, but the song does deal with that subject matter, does it not? Here are a few lines:

I once had a child and it saved my life
And I never even asked his name
I just looked into his wondrous eyes
And said "Never, never, never again"
But all too soon I did return
Just like a moth to a flame

I am writing these from memory, so please don't jump down my throat if I am one word off. My question is, "Am I crazy to think that these lines imply a sexual reltionship with a child?" What other interpretation could there be?
 
> I recently had a discussion with a fellow Morrissey fan in which
> the other person denied *any* connotation of child molestation
> or "man/boy love" in "The Hand That Rocks the
> Cradle." He said he'd never even heard anyone suggest such
> a thing, and this is someone who was listening to The Smiths
> from the very beginning. It frankly made me feel that something
> might be wrong with *me*. Naturally, I don't think that
> Morrissey is a nonce, but the song does deal with that subject
> matter, does it not? Here are a few lines:

> I once had a child and it saved my life
> And I never even asked his name
> I just looked into his wondrous eyes
> And said "Never, never, never again"
> But all too soon I did return
> Just like a moth to a flame

> I am writing these from memory, so please don't jump down my
> throat if I am one word off. My question is, "Am I crazy to
> think that these lines imply a sexual reltionship with a
> child?" What other interpretation could there be?

I would say reel around the fountain is much more to do with child abuse than the hand that rocks the cradle.
 
who's to say...

..that he wasn't singing about someone else. Someone who'd fathered a baby. The "never never never again" referring to a divorce from the mother. "But all too soon I did return"...meaning that even though he's now divorced he's still got an interest in watching his child grow.

As always, most people keep their brains between their legs.

> I once had a child and it saved my life
> And I never even asked his name
> I just looked into his wondrous eyes
> And said "Never, never, never again"
> But all too soon I did return
> Just like a moth to a flame
 
I always thought it was about monogomy. I don't take Morrissey's lyrics to the literal tee. Go off and do what ever you want but just remember who's finger is on the trigger, so to speak.
 
Intriguing...

Thanks for your input. Could you explain what you mean? I didn't understand the bit about the finger on the trigger. Is this like the hand on the cradle? Is he threatening to spill the baby out?

> I always thought it was about monogomy. I don't take Morrissey's
> lyrics to the literal tee. Go off and do what ever you want but
> just remember who's finger is on the trigger, so to speak.
 
Blood on the cleaver tonight..

> Thanks for your input. Could you explain what you mean? I didn't
> understand the bit about the finger on the trigger. Is this like
> the hand on the cradle? Is he threatening to spill the baby out?

A piano plays in an empty room. It's sad. I have just liked thinking that the song was about only sharing you body with one person. One person. Leaving all other fancy to the wolves. We all have a trigger. Do I have to explain? It's a metaphor.
 
Also,

> A piano plays in an empty room. It's sad. I have just liked
> thinking that the song was about only sharing you body with one
> person. One person. Leaving all other fancy to the wolves. We
> all have a trigger. Do I have to explain? It's a metaphor.

That lyric you posted seems like it's about a past relationship that hurt, and possibly pushed him to the view. I have never thought this song was about abuse of any sort...much less child abuse. I really don't see it in Reel Around the Fountian either.. I don't know why people would think that and I don't care really either because even if someone told me, I don't think it would make sense..

Do I sound opinated? haha.
 
I wholly agree with your view that the song is about child molestation. What made it more evident for me is that when the song was performed live, Morrissey changed the recorded lyrics of "Your mother she just never knew' to 'Your mother she need never know'. It's obviously the molesterer talking to his/her young victim. I wouldn't bet against Morrissey finding these lines very funny to sing, I mean in what other medium could you utter such words?
 
Thanks for confirming my sanity

I think some people might not want to acknowledge the connotation because it means being anti-Morrissey. I am not anti-Morrissey, and I think it's possible to sing from another person's perspective without condoning his or her behavior. After all, John Lennon wasn't really a walrus. I would even say that it could be a *positive* thing to try to understand such a mindset in order to protect potential victims. In Morrissey's case, though, he was probably just being amoral and letting his romanticization of Wildean and Greek ideals shine through. (Of course, a child in a cradle is a bit young even from this perspective.)

That's interesting information about the changed lyrics. The original version is creepy enough, but the concert version is downright blatant.

> I wholly agree with your view that the song is about child
> molestation. What made it more evident for me is that when the
> song was performed live, Morrissey changed the recorded lyrics
> of "Your mother she just never knew' to 'Your mother she
> need never know'. It's obviously the molesterer talking to
> his/her young victim. I wouldn't bet against Morrissey finding
> these lines very funny to sing, I mean in what other medium
> could you utter such words?
 
Hand that rocks the cradle

SURELY the song is about the fear struck into the hearts of children by people who would abuse or harm children. Let us not forget that while we can like and admire the artists we don't have to 'like' the subject matter. I think Morrissey has spoken in the past of the fear caused by the 'Moors Murderers' Bradey and Hindley and he is explaining what was going on using the voice of the 3rd party. "See how words dissolve the sin" - obviously words do not dissolve anyone of sin but those who murder and abuse find words to try to justify their acts. And NO I can't believe Morrissey ever thought it was 'funny' to sing the lyrics.

> I think some people might not want to acknowledge the
> connotation because it means being anti-Morrissey. I am not
> anti-Morrissey, and I think it's possible to sing from another
> person's perspective without condoning his or her behavior.
> After all, John Lennon wasn't really a walrus. I would even say
> that it could be a *positive* thing to try to understand such a
> mindset in order to protect potential victims. In Morrissey's
> case, though, he was probably just being amoral and letting his
> romanticization of Wildean and Greek ideals shine through. (Of
> course, a child in a cradle is a bit young even from this
> perspective.)

> That's interesting information about the changed lyrics. The
> original version is creepy enough, but the concert version is
> downright blatant.
 
Re: Hand that rocks the cradle

> SURELY the song is about the fear struck into the hearts of
> children by people who would abuse or harm children. Let us not
> forget that while we can like and admire the artists we don't
> have to 'like' the subject matter. I think Morrissey has spoken
> in the past of the fear caused by the 'Moors Murderers' Bradey
> and Hindley and he is explaining what was going on using the
> voice of the 3rd party. "See how words dissolve the
> sin" - obviously words do not dissolve anyone of sin but
> those who murder and abuse find words to try to justify their
> acts. And NO I can't believe Morrissey ever thought it was
> 'funny' to sing the lyrics.

I'm sorry but that's just the way I view Morrissey. I often feel he's taken too seriously on occassions, and that alot of his songs are sprinkled with dubious lyrics for his own satisfaction, as in some kind of inside joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the whole of 'The Hand That Rocks The Handle' was written with humour in mind, but I can just imagine him with a wry smile singing "Climb upon my knee sonny boy' to the Hacienda crowd.
 
Reel around the fountain

> I would say reel around the fountain is much more to do with
> child abuse than the hand that rocks the cradle.

WHAT??????
I have always taken this as a young man / woman in their teens, early twenties appreciating a sexual relationship with an older person (people see no worth in you - I DO).
As someone who was young and having a fling at the time this song came out with an older woman, i sang it all the time to myself when being slapped on the patio!!!!
As for The Rock that hands the cradle.. i sung this every time i baby sat my nephew.... he would be safe for the night as long as i was rocking his cradle, safe from the shadowing wadrobe and the beasts of prey.... i think maybe you are looking to deeply and finding things that either are not there or that you WANT to find.

PS, I have fallen in love with Nancy Brown, her comments are brilliant!
 
Doa! I hate when that happens.

I know you!! and you had better finish your homework! 10 points off per day! You sound like a sweet boy, singing to babies, but I've been waiting.
 
Re: Reel around the fountain

> WHAT??????
> I have always taken this as a young man / woman in their teens,
> early twenties appreciating a sexual relationship with an older
> person (people see no worth in you - I DO).
> As someone who was young and having a fling at the time this
> song came out with an older woman, i sang it all the time to
> myself when being slapped on the patio!!!!
> As for The Rock that hands the cradle.. i sung this every time i
> baby sat my nephew.... he would be safe for the night as long as
> i was rocking his cradle, safe from the shadowing wadrobe and
> the beasts of prey.... i think maybe you are looking to deeply
> and finding things that either are not there or that you WANT to
> find.

IM not trying to find anything. You are obviously not british or are new to the smiths and morrissey. At the time of release there was a big fuss over the song relating to child abuse, not me making it up just a true fact.

> PS, I have fallen in love with Nancy Brown, her comments are
> brilliant!
 
Kindly

> IM not trying to find anything. You are obviously not british or
> are new to the smiths and morrissey. At the time of release
> there was a big fuss over the song relating to child abuse, not
> me making it up just a true fact.

Please don't believe everything that's handed to you. I've seen the comments about that song before, and still feel the same. It is an interesting debate, well, not really. I think if Morrissey has denied it then it is so, and I *think* he has. He's a joker, but the british press (for a fact) was very hard on him..one reason he probably said many of the things he did...ie about Margret Thatcher? Do you really think he wanted her killed? (Oh no..i'm in trouble now.)
 
Re: Reel around the fountain

> IM not trying to find anything. You are obviously not british or
> are new to the smiths and morrissey. At the time of release
> there was a big fuss over the song relating to child abuse, not
> me making it up just a true fact.

Why am i obviously not British or new to the Smiths???
Do you wanna see my passport (still a British one, not European) and i still have 4 of the 5 ticket stubs from the Smiths gigs i attended.
I recall the fuss being over 'Handsome Devil', but not this song.
 
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