I'll suffice to say that you've simply incorrectly interpreted what I was a trying to say, and that "well yeah, but at least we haven't beheaded anybody", is a far, far cry for what I said originally. I'm a little insulted, actually. The fact that I said I wasn't trying to rationalize anything should have been enough for you, and I shouldn't have to explain myself any further.
I realize that this is the Internet and that things get caught in translation, but that doesn't stop me from being a little dissapointed. I thought you knew me better than that, Coiff.
You said "We've done some f***ed up shit, but we haven't done that [beheaded an Iraqi journalist] yet." If that point isn't trying to achieve what I originally thought, then I have no idea what the aim of it was. I wasn't making any personal slurs, so I have no idea why you're introducing this whole element of "I thought you knew me better than that." I was surprised at your original comment, yes, which is why I took it further. I wasn't trying to insult you.
Oh, anyone can see exactly what you were doing. The only question is, when did you convert to Islam? Before or after 9/11?
And you can keep mourning that piece of worm food, the genocidal dictator Saddam Hussein (who you call a "leader of a Middle Eastern state" who was deposed "for no particular reason") , if you like. *spit*
I wondered how long it would be until Donald Rumsfeld Jnr. showed up.
I don't "mourn" him - but everyone, no matter how bad their crime, deserves a fair trial - something the US ensured he never received. Not that deposing him was even the genuine reason for this war, but apparently human rights laws don't apply when they're inconvenient for whichever draconian foreign policies America wants to enforce.
You have it all wrong Coiff. I believe you misinterpreted my tone.
In no way did I intend for my statement to sound like a small child defending his actions with "well at least we haven't......"
My statement began with "I do not condone torture...."
Undeniably, a great deal of what happened at Abu Ghraib was torture, and our Armed Forces cannot conduct themselves in that manner without facing consequences. However, I am sick and tired of people bringing up Abu Ghraib without any mention of what Iraqi soldiers have done to civilians....I have file folders full of video footage.
I made the statement that I had seen photos of Iraqi prisoners wearing women's underwear on their heads; but at least their heads were still attached to their necks. My intent was not to rationalize what we did at Abu Gharib, but to reiterate that we are not exactly fighting gentlemen in this war. Again, what we did was wrong. We could go around for days with this argument.
This was Corrissey's tribute to our American Soldiers, and I found your initial remarks smug and disrespectful.
The nature of war is such that you will never be fighting "gentlemen." Nobody who kills in an unjust war is a "gentleman." You have the most highly trained armed forces in the world, and yet they cannot conduct themselves with the decency expected of even the most rudimentary fighting force. The official aim was to liberate a country crushed under the iron fist of a brutal dictator, and yet innocent people become the victims of abuse at the hands of their liberators. I won't apologise for raising this issue, because there's no better time to do it than now. I'm not the one disrespecting the centuries of world innovation and pioneering achieved by your nation - your troops are.
well damn. Im not surprised someone came on here trying to ruin this thread, but I'm actually surprised it was Coiff. it is possible to support the troops, but not the war. I can't wait til the 4th of July when someone makes a thread and we get shit on for that too. I guess us Americans can't do anything right.
Why the surprise? If you want to believe my comments are merely anti-American rhetoric, then go ahead. You'd be wrong though, because I don't want to see your country's reputation tarnished anymore than it has been over the past five years. Do you believe that your troops are fighting an illegal war? If so, how is it possible to support their actions on an individual basis? They return home having committed an illegal act. As this is an unjust war, they have, in essence, committed murder. I can't support that.
You're right because what this country is doing now dishonors all of those that fought for what this country stood for and those that ran our government used to be against torture, and for the Constitutional rights of US Citizens, and the upholding of honor and decency when dealing with prisoners of war.
Actually, by writing this on this day you are honoring the ideals that those people fought for. I don't think that shutting up while our nation throws away the ideals that made us great is what it's all about.
Well said, Dave. It's a relief to know that not all Americans are still lost in the fog of their President's propaganda.
Coiff.