"the creep up on you" theory

[Paulc]

I have read alot on this board in the past year or so about how many people feel YATQ and ROTT are significantly lower in quality than Smiths records or early Morrissey albums VH, YA, V&I.

My own experience with the albums i purposely didnt mention above Kill Uncle, Maladjusted and Southpaw Grammar is that it took a while for the songs on these albums to get under my skin. They took a while to creep up on me and for me to love them.

It set me thinking that perhaps when Smiths songs first came out or when early Morrissey stuff was first produced it took a while for those to be truly appreciated too. Perhaps this is why he never has massive number 1 smash hits - it takes a while for his songs to really resonate with people.

I guess what i am saying is i love stuff like Our Frank or Dagenham Dave more now than i ever did in the past. And my theory is that the same will happen to YATQ and ROTT songs. Give them a few years of hearing them, a few years not hearing them and my belief is that they will creep up on you and you will love them like old friends.

[prisoner77]

Ringleader is the first album I haven't loved at first listen or 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

[viva_M]

For me Ringleader has been definitely a grower.

[Maurice E]

It's a nice theory but it certainly doesn't apply to me.
I jumped aboard the good ship Moz in the late 80's and my view of the songs hasn't really changed much at all.
Viva Hate's still brilliant; Southpaw Grammar's still awful (in my humble).
Dagenham Dave thoroughly deserves its position in the Houdini poll as worst ever Morrissey single!
Admittedly, some songs do take slightly longer to grow on me; In the Future When All's Well, for instance.
Ringleader was 6th out of 8 in the Moz albums- 10th out of 12 when you include Smiths, and I don't think it'll do any better in a few years' time...

[spinelessswine]

Agreed and well put.
First listen of Ringleader I wasn't too convinced. But I was sat in a pub with a girl I didn't love anymore that first time so I can be excused not quite being 'into it' straight away. ;p

After a couple more listens it started to really grow on me.
Now that it's been out nearly 2 years when i put it on it feels like an old friend.

[Ethan Poe]

See I think that applies for individual tracks but from my experience I love both albums from the get-go...the only album I can say did grow on me was Meat is Murder

[gentle kind]

I definately agree with you that sometimes albums have to settle into the psyche before they can be fully appraised, however only time will truly tell.

[Anaesthesine]

Morrissey is certainly "creepier" than most artists I can think of.

I had just left home when "The Smiths" came out, and was at that impressionable age when everything hits you like a ton of bricks. I got that album on the first listen, and most kids could not shrug off that disc - the impact was immediate, whether you loved it or hated it. "Meat is Murder" was the same. The Smiths were genius in that way, most people (ok, most artsy types) could not ignore them. I do agree, however, that their true depth has only become more obvious over time.

As for his solo stuff, that is another story. I'm with Maurice E on this one concerning Southpaw Grammar - it's dire, and nothing on it has ever resonated with me at all (OK, Boy Racer is cute).

I liked Quarry enough on the first listen to fall back in with Moz. Tormentors is tougher, but Pigsty is a classic that will stand the test of time (for me at least).

[mozzia]

I was hearing Smiths and Moz-solo albums for the first time around the same time. I had a large amount of new music to listen to over a reasonably short amount of time. (Think it was 2 or 3 months it took me to buy all Smiths and Moz-solo up to You Are The Quarry).
The Smiths stuff was what grabbed me the most. I still loved most of the solo stuff I was hearing, but for me, The Smiths had something extra.

[the judge]

Sometimes it takes me years to understand that a song is good.

[Jones]

Personally I found Ringleader pretty immediate.

If you think about it, Morrissey is nearly fifty. A lot of his fans will be quite a lot younger than him. So it may take them a while until they can identify with a lot of the songs he is writing now.

[Skinheads an Nail Varnish]

I had to listen to "Ringleader" a few time to appreciate it and there are some pretty good songs and arrangements on the album.
And the dissapointing album "Malajusted",Is collecting dust on my creaking shelf.
The album that is undoubtly the best album in my opinion and the most listened to by myself on drunken Sunday nights is "Your Arsenal",Wonderful album.

[Ben Budd]

I loved ROTT when I first got it back in 2006, but now I haven't really listened to it as a whole album. I think after a few more months of avoiding I might be able to really enjoy it again.

[vivabob]

i like the theory but mine works in a reverse way i loved kill uncle when i came out , but now find it hard to listen to , i found malajusted almost unlistenable and now its my favourite album

mind you southpaw has never really taken off for me ... YET

[jdbabz]

I really don't get why YATQ is considered better than Ringleader.

The sound on YATQ is so bad it is synthesised and computerised compared with the raw instrumentals, varying street sounds ,childrens choir on Ringleader. Tony Visconti surpasses Jerry Finn there is no question. Morricones composition "Life is a Pigsty" is epic.
Ringleader has more of a European theme whereas Yatq mentions America in at least 4 songs. Ringleader is more inventive and has greater depth compared with songs like "Let me kiss you oh oh oh" and "Lazy Dykes".

Ringleader is the sytlish italian leather boot to YATQ's squishy seeping mcds' burger.

[CrystalGeezer]

I'm sorry. I'd love to but I'm happily married.

[CrystalGeezer]

woops. Wrong thread. But I'll leave it anyway just to spice things up.