Are you easily offended?

[Dave]

I think the term has some meaning, but like "racist" most people assume it applies to other people. It's a concept that's not easily susceptible to clear definition, and it shifts a bit like "left" and "right" depend on where you're standing. I'd try to articulate a definition, but I should probably get some work done. Plus, my heart's not really in it without DAnn around. DAnn would have a word or two to say on the subject.

It's not a concept, it's a sly way to put someone down. It's codespeak, so people can be rude and ignorant and if someone objects they are "politically correct". "Overly sensitive" is a term which has meaning. Politically correct is not.
There is no list anywhere of what is politically correct and what is not, and it's often just a demeaning way to say "has liberal views" with an implied smirk.

I was discussing Ann Coulter's recent remark about Jews with Dann, and he basically said that her views were already known, and that she was offered the opportunity to make the statement she did so that people who don't like her views would have a chance to feign "mock outrage".

That's clear and makes sense. If he had just said, "Oh they are mad because what she said wasn't politically correct", the meaning would not be clear at all.

Thinking and having convictions is difficult for many people anyway so it's helpful, if you want to sway opinions, to have phrases like "politically correct" that everyone can put their own meaning on.

I don't even care about the term that much. I would just like to point out that it's a tool to influence thinking and it has so many meanings to so many people that it really has no practical meaning at all. It's time for people to recognize that and retire that term, in my opinion.

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

I'm fucking sorry.

I'm drinking wine and hope to be back later too. The best offense is a good defense

Maybe someone should start an "Are you easily defended" thread?

on a tuesday? Man, i wish we lived near each other, i could go for an eight ball. i mean a highball!

That was actually a line from a Tragically Hip song, but the sentiment remains. The beer was good, though considerably more expensive than $1.50 a pop. I think our livers should be glad that we're all safely dispersed around the world.

[Not Right in the Head]

Yeah, I do get easily offended. Do you have a fucking problem with that? Just in the last two days, two people have called me a geek on these forums. As if!

Seriously, I am. I have a problem. But I offend others all the time, so maybe things are cosmically balanced. Everyone thinks I'm uptight and paranoid, but that doesn't mean that nobody's out to get me.

Oh, and Macs. Used Apple products since 1986, PCs since '90, and *nix boxen since '96 or so. I still consider myself a Mac geek. And don't fucking make fun of me for that!

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

It's not a concept, it's a sly way to put someone down. It's codespeak, so people can be rude and ignorant and if someone objects they are "politically correct". "Overly sensitive" is a term which has meaning. Politically correct is not.
There is no list anywhere of what is politically correct and what is not, and it's often just a demeaning way to say "has liberal views" with an implied smirk.

I was discussing Ann Coulter's recent remark about Jews with Dann, and he basically said that her views were already known, and that she was offered the opportunity to make the statement she did so that people who don't like her views would have a chance to feign "mock outrage".

That's clear and makes sense. If he had just said, "Oh they are mad because what she said wasn't politically correct", the meaning would not be clear at all.

Thinking and having convictions is difficult for many people anyway so it's helpful, if you want to sway opinions, to have phrases like "politically correct" that everyone can put their own meaning on.

I don't even care about the term that much. I would just like to point out that it's a tool to influence thinking and it has so many meanings to so many people that it really has no practical meaning at all. It's time for people to recognize that and retire that term, in my opinion.

The term clearly has some meaning, or its use wouldn't bother people and you wouldn't recognize it as a put down. It represents a concept, which is, basically, "screw off and quit preaching at me/telling me what to do or think." It's a response to what I think is commonly viewed as an increasingly condescending view of opinions and behaviors that aren't deemed "correct" by certain segments of popular culture, the self-appointed "elites" if you will. It has always, I think, been intended as a negative. The use varies from smoking (The Governator and his cigars) to driving certain cars (again, the Gov and his Hummer v. hybrids), not recycling, telling "off-color" jokes, eating meat, and any number of other topics. Being openly Christian or anti-abortion in Hollywood is not politically correct.

If you've seen the Seinfeld episode where they keep ducking conversations about race by saying "I don't think we're supposed to be talking about this," I think that episode was about political correctness. The movie Bullworth was shocking because it wasn't politically correct. (These are old examples because I think the height of real PC-ness appears to have has passed and thus the usefullness of the term is passing as well. In that the term is approaching retirement age, at least, I agree with you.)

Yes it's "codespeak" and shorthand, and like "fascist," "nazi," "liberal," "racist," "bigot" and many other terms it can be misused, but also like those terms it conveys a point that is at times worth making.

[celibate]

I myself don't get offended easily. I might get annoyed at things, but rarely ever offended. So how do you fare in this PC (edit: Mac) friendly world?

I'm very very easily offended

[Dave]

The term clearly has some meaning, or its use wouldn't bother people and you wouldn't recognize it as a put down. It represents a concept, which is, basically, "screw off and quit preaching at me/telling me what to do or think." It's a response to what I think is commonly viewed as an increasingly condescending view of opinions and behaviors that aren't deemed "correct" by certain segments of popular culture, the self-appointed "elites" if you will. It has always, I think, been intended as a negative. The use varies from smoking (The Governator and his cigars) to driving certain cars (again, the Gov and his Hummer v. hybrids), not recycling, telling "off-color" jokes, eating meat, and any number of other topics. Being openly Christian or anti-abortion in Hollywood is not politically correct.

If you've seen the Seinfeld episode where they keep ducking conversations about race by saying "I don't think we're supposed to be talking about this," I think that episode was about political correctness. The movie Bullworth was shocking because it wasn't politically correct. (These are old examples because I think the height of real PC-ness appears to have has passed and thus the usefullness of the term is passing as well. In that the term is approaching retirement age, at least, I agree with you.)

Yes it's "codespeak" and shorthand, and like "fascist," "nazi," "liberal," "racist," "bigot" and many other terms it can be misused, but also like those terms it conveys a point that is at times worth making.

When certain topics come up some people instinctively look for an authority figure to explain it to them. They like having someone in charge to tell you what what is true and what is false. When other people question them and they say "Oh those people are politically correct" some people are relieved because it wraps the idea up in a nice soft package with no hard edges and it's all fuzzy and warm and life goes on.

But it's meaningless. If you can actually define it, instead of saying "sometimes it means this, sometimes that" I might change my mind, but it's not used that way. It's used as if it actually has some inherent meaning, and it means different things to different people in different situations. What's wrong with actually using language that means something? When I judge a word for "meaning" I'm talking about inherent meaning, not contextual. You're arguing for ignorance and muddled thinking.

Recognizing that it's a putdown does not mean I recognize that is has meaning. It usually follows or precedes a statement to the effect of, "I am angry or feeling antagonistic and I am saying something you won't like. If you object you are trying to trample on my rights."

Never mind the fact that the person that objects is just exercising those same rights.

You go on about certain elite segments of culture, and all that ever meant was an appeal to the emotions. The whole "cultural elite" thing is another codespeak. It means "people that think they are better than you, and that you sort of suspect might be smarter, but who do not have the same values you do and so are dangerous".

yes or no test. Are you against that which is politically correct?

If you say, no but you're against the IDEA of political correctness, you're illustrating the point that it's a useless term.
if you say yes, then of course there are a lot of advances in society that you would be saying you are against.
if you say no, then you're one of these predictable people that line up to be outraged on cue.

Notice that nobody ever calls themselves "politically correct".

[bikubesong]

what are you insinuating??

[Buzzetta]

I myself don't get offended easily. I might get annoyed at things, but rarely ever offended. So how do you fare in this PC (edit: Mac) friendly world?

Can I get offended- actually yes... but it depends on where the comment comes from.

If one of you calls me a f****** idiot because while resting on a beach in the sun I am listening to Jack Johnson I honestly don't care.

If my relatives were to come and tell me something like that because of my career choice I may take it to heart.

It all depends on where it comes from.

As far as PC... I do not understand why it is acceptable to bash the catholic church and italians in popular media while if I speak out against certain other groups it can cause some of my friends to get overtime pay so Reverand Al may march.

[hatfull]

nah, I don't take offence easily

[the more you explore me!]

fuck no

I'm fucking sorry.

How unlady like, shocking such words would come from a mother


I am a delicate flower and a prude, I hate sexual swear words, movies above a PG rating, naked people, rock music and I faint at the sight of blood.

[Corrissey]

explory, et al...
I joke. I offend. I regret. I apologize. I love. I leave (for work).
Hugs


p.s. I don't swear in front of my kids

[Hellie]

I got very offended not too long ago.A new restaurant opened.Nice and modern,not stuffy at all.When I read the menu the only veggie option was crappy bloody lasagne(OMG how original).The menu set out its gargantuan array of piggie delights.Every part of the pig could be cooked for my delight and as the waitress explained "I could have everything except the squeak"(oh how I didn`t laugh)...I told her I prefered my porkers alive and squeaking and that I would have an omelete.With that she waffled on about how the "chef" didn`t do omeletes..but only what was on the menu.Omelete is the first thing you learn to cook at catering college by the way.So I left very offended and in total disbelief.

[Busy Clippers]

Nothing could possibly offend me more than actually being me.

[bogdana]

I think our livers should be glad that we're all safely dispersed around the world.

truer words have never been spoken.
I am both thankful and rueful that nugz and i can only see each other occasionally.

[Worm]

The term clearly has some meaning, or its use wouldn't bother people and you wouldn't recognize it as a put down. It represents a concept, which is, basically, "screw off and quit preaching at me/telling me what to do or think." It's a response to what I think is commonly viewed as an increasingly condescending view of opinions and behaviors that aren't deemed "correct" by certain segments of popular culture, the self-appointed "elites" if you will. It has always, I think, been intended as a negative. The use varies from smoking (The Governator and his cigars) to driving certain cars (again, the Gov and his Hummer v. hybrids), not recycling, telling "off-color" jokes, eating meat, and any number of other topics. Being openly Christian or anti-abortion in Hollywood is not politically correct.

If you've seen the Seinfeld episode where they keep ducking conversations about race by saying "I don't think we're supposed to be talking about this," I think that episode was about political correctness. The movie Bullworth was shocking because it wasn't politically correct. (These are old examples because I think the height of real PC-ness appears to have has passed and thus the usefullness of the term is passing as well. In that the term is approaching retirement age, at least, I agree with you.)

Yes it's "codespeak" and shorthand, and like "fascist," "nazi," "liberal," "racist," "bigot" and many other terms it can be misused, but also like those terms it conveys a point that is at times worth making.

Your avoidance of a certain term in the first paragraph was noted and appreciated.

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

Your avoidance of a certain term in the first paragraph was noted and appreciated.

The L one or the F one? I didn't want to use the F one again in this thread, though at first I was going to quote Jefferson Starship.

The L word I didn't want to use, or if I did I'd put it in quotes, so I wouldn't be coupling the people to whom I was referring with people who are actually "L" in the good sense of the word. I try not to equate liberalism with being judgmental.

[Worm]

The L one or the F one? I didn't want to use the F one again in this thread, though at first I was going to quote Jefferson Starship.

The L word I didn't want to use, or if I did I'd put it in quotes, so I wouldn't be coupling the people to whom I was referring with people who are actually "L" in the good sense of the word. I try not to equate liberalism with being judgmental.

You took the "anti-" instead of the "pro-" which I was happy to see. In a way I am remarking on the value of political correctness here-- words do matter-- but, that said, I'm more sympathetic to Dave's argument. PC was an abomination thrown down into the world from a few ivory towers. Unfortunately the backlash, which was salutary at first, has now gone into overdrive. One step forward, two steps back-- although maybe I'm just depressed this morning after seeing an ironical maiden sporting an Iron Maiden t-shirt at last night's show.

Liberalism is a mess. It's gone off the rails. Even people who feel they are liberal don't like the word, or so it seems.

[Busy Clippers]

Liberalism is a mess. It's gone off the rails. Even people who feel they are liberal don't like the word, or so it seems.

The failure of the Left. Do not get me started!

[bogdana]

i blame the republicans for making 'liberal' a dirty word! i also blame michael moore for being an extremist.

[Worm]

i blame the republicans for making 'liberal' a dirty word! i also blame michael moore for being an extremist.

They not only made 'liberal' a dirty word, they more or less introduced the liberal/conservative, Red State/Blue State binary oppositions into the mainstream, which in a way is just as harmful because it makes people think they're at summer camp joining teams in a big pie fight.

I don't think Michael Moore is an extremist. Michael Moore's problem is that he's a moderate thinker whose talent is for caricature, polemicism, and satire. Imagine Van Gogh if he were forced to paint with a kitchen sponge instead of a paint brush-- that is the difference between Michael Moore's core politics and the way they are actually expressed. I say this not to excuse him; if anything it makes him more dangerous. He should not be trusted. But I think he's an interesting indication of what's wrong, and how the right wing hype machine has ruined our politics. Lefties can only win an audience by sacrificing the moderate ground to embrace extremist attention-grabbing or (more commonly) to move into the satisfying but irrelevant realm of entertainment. The most inspiring "liberal" isn't Clinton or Obama, it's Jon Stewart. That should make our skin crawl.