just curious

[kakarot]

animals killing each other like for example a lion killing a zebra....is that wrong? its doing it for food purposes..why is that any different then us? just cause we don't hunt? if i lion had the knowledge or way to do it like we do...would they continue to hunt? i think not..... we are a higher species... we have earned the right to eat the lesser... i do not like animal brutality.. but if we didn't kill them in massses and use techonlogy to make it quicker...then we wouldn't have as much food andmore people would go hungry..prices would increase....... lets face it... I like eating meat..many of us do...if you don't then don't.. your decision.. but it is not wrong and no vegetarian is a better person for being a vegetarian , then say a meat eater.....we kill for food for survival..it has been done that way as long as humans have been around... why should we change...anyone else feel the same way? just curious
kakarot

i heard once being a vegetarian makes you weak willed...anyone else heard this?


morrissey friends

[ian edwards]

look at a lion's teeth (carnivious perhaps) and then please examine your own...a difference perhaps?


theme

[Sarah]

>anyone else feel the same way?

yes, I have to agree¿ i heard once being a vegetarian makes you weak willed...anyone¿ else heard this?

that's news to me

[kakarot]

> look at a lion's teeth (carnivious perhaps) and then please¿ examine your own...a difference perhaps?

differnce shmiverence...... my brother has pointy teeth what does that mean....anyway we are humans we use tools to kill not our teeth


morrissey friends

[Sarah]

> look at a lion's teeth (carnivious perhaps) and then please¿ examine your own...a difference perhaps?

yeah maybe it's because we don't have to use our teeth (and nails/claws) to rip large wild animals open...their teeth have to be more suited to THEIR survival...maybe man's teeth would be like that of a lion if we weren't this sophisticated (if you want to call it that)

what about our canine teeth? why aren't those teeth flat like a herbivore's?
we have teeth that resemble both that of a carnivore and of a herbivore. so...

**i'm no dentist..but i think they're called the canines..?**

[ian edwards]

we COULD argue for hours...but i must be forced into the corner..
but the weak-willed vegetarian schtick is still propaganda


theme

[kakarot]

we have different teeth for the different things we eat...all our teeth serve a purpose...except wisdom teeth of course..at least I am prety sure


morrissey friends

[kakarot]

> we COULD argue for hours...but i must be forced into the¿ corner..¿ but the weak-willed vegetarian schtick is still propaganda

just something i heard...i didn't know if was true or not...actually i seem to remember hearing it on 21 jump street...haha.....


morrissey friends

[Sarah]

the question was rhetorical...i'm really not that stupid

[kakarot]

> the question was rhetorical...i'm really not that stupid

oh my mistake


morrissey friends

[Howard]

There is no such thing as a higher or lesser being- that is a myth. This is not to say that there is no difference (the difference does not make something superior in any unqualified way). Humans do not have to eat meat to survive and they can be more compassionate by choosing not to eat meat. Whatever people ate in the past is utterly irrelevant. Your argument that if we didn't eat meat people would starve is utterly wrong. It wastes more grain to make meat than to feed a human with the grain. The problem with people starving is not that not enough food is produced; it is the fact that it is not distributed. Our technology does not make it any easier on the animal, by the way. Factory farming is far more cruel and disgusting than simple hunting. If you can be more compassionate by not eating meat that is better- it is morally better. It is not just a matter of personal preference- it is doing what is morally right. If you don't have to eat meat it is better not to. War and slavery existed from the beginning of human civilization, does that make it all right? No.
I have heard that eating meat makes people agressive.

[jacob]

here we go again, dominating species? Vegetarians are weak willed? I'm very confused where your motivation to write this comes from. Yes animals kill each other (have you ever watched a cat sadistically play with a mouse) and there is an order to nature, but is it kind or nice, no, do we have to follow the "laws of nature", no. Vegetarianism/veganism etc. is a choice and it takes a strong willed person to make it.
-jake

[kakarot]

> There is no such thing as a higher or lesser being- that is a¿ myth. This is not to say that there is no difference (the¿ difference does not make something superior in any unqualified¿ way).
well i meant it as smarter and more sophisicated...

Humans do not have to eat meat to survive and they can be¿ more compassionate by choosing not to eat meat. Whatever people¿ ate in the past is utterly irrelevant.
no not really... our past is very relevant..there is a reason that we eat meat.... and i am sure its in the past... i am sure it would have been much easier to pick berries then to hunt down some big animal..

Your argument that if we¿ didn't eat meat people would starve is utterly wrong.

no i am not thinking that was my argument¿ Our technology does not make it any easier on the animal, by the¿ way.

i know this...it makes it easier for us..not them..i believe i said somethng about that..read closer

It is not just a¿ matter of personal preference- it is doing what is morally¿ right.

oh yeah well stop killing and eating all those pretty plants then mister... who hears when a daffodil crys!!! why is one lesser then another? eating plants or animals? either way there dead...is it just ok cause there are more of em?
next you'll be telling me i am immoral for killing insects.. those poor things that get smushed against my windshield when i am driving...maybe i should stop driving actually....

oh and mister moraly responsible you should probably stop using anything that has wood in it...you realize how many animals get killed and there homes destroyed by timbering?¿ War and slavery existed from the beginning of human civilization,¿ does that make it all right?

yes actually it does... i would rather have war then to let wrong go on unchecked.....as for slavery...why even bring that into this..or war for that matter...we are talking about being a vegetarian ..please stay on subject¿ I have heard that eating meat makes people agressive.

smart ass


morrissey friends

[kakarot]

> here we go again, dominating species? Vegetarians are weak¿ willed? I'm very confused where your motivation to write this¿ comes from. Yes animals kill each other (have you ever watched a¿ cat sadistically play with a mouse) and there is an order to¿ nature, but is it kind or nice, no, do we have to follow the¿ "laws of nature", no. Vegetarianism/veganism etc. is a¿ choice and it takes a strong willed person to make it.¿ -jake

the weak willed part was more of a joke..geesh




morrissey friends

[ian edwards]

you are a stubborn one, aren't you?!!?!?!!

well anyway robbie knievel WILL die, you know...
and if not we'll kill ourselves simultaneously like japanese concubines? yum!


theme

[Sarah]

ha ha ha...

[Howard]

> well i meant it as smarter and more sophisicated...
Well, that does not mean that it makes something morally justified in eating anything else that is not so smart and sophisticated. Now I could say something rude here, and respond in kind to your post but that sort of thing was not my intention. Are people going to be so thin-skinned such that even a suggestion that something that they are doing is wrong is to be reacted to with complete hostility?¿ no not really... our past is very relevant..there is a reason¿ that we eat meat.... and i am sure its in the past... i am sure¿ it would have been much easier to pick berries then to hunt down¿ some big animal..
The only questions are these- whether we need to eat meat right now- the answer to that is "no", the second one is whether it would be better, more compassionate, not to eat meat, the answer to that is "yes". That is basically all there is to ask. The past is irrelevant with regard to the question.¿ no i am not thinking that was my argument¿ i know this...it makes it easier for us..not them..i believe i¿ said somethng about that..read closer
It does not make it any easier for us in terms of feeding the hungry. That could easily be done without killing any animals.¿ oh yeah well stop killing and eating all those pretty plants¿ then mister... who hears when a daffodil crys!!! why is one¿ lesser then another? eating plants or animals? either way there¿ dead...is it just ok cause there are more of em?¿ next you'll be telling me i am immoral for killing insects..¿ those poor things that get smushed against my windshield when i¿ am driving...maybe i should stop driving actually....¿ oh and mister moraly responsible you should probably stop using¿ anything that has wood in it...you realize how many animals get¿ killed and there homes destroyed by timbering?
And you ask me to stay on the topic? This commits the logical fallacy of "Tu quo que", by the way. Whatever I do does not change whether eating meat is right or wrong. I could be eating a huge steak as I write this and it would be irrelevant with regard to the truth (although not the sincerity) of what I have said. Obviously the best way to live would be not to kill or harm anything. If this is impractical we should surely try and limit as much harm and damage we do to make it as little as is practically possible. Whatever we can practically live without and which causes harm should be abandoned. We have to eat something and I decide to eat plants not because I am utterly morally justified in doing so but because they have no nervous systems or anything approaching senses like that which animals have.¿ yes actually it does... i would rather have war then to let¿ wrong go on unchecked.....as for slavery...why even bring that¿ into this..or war for that matter...we are talking about being a¿ vegetarian ..please stay on subject
It is a reductio ad absurdam of your argument. You argue that something happened in the past and so it is all right now because there must have been a reason for it in the past. This example of slavery should show anyone that this is a faulty way of arguing.¿ smart ass
I did not put up my post to insult anyone but to disagree with you. Is that the same thing for you? I am interested in discussing the matter, not exchanging insults with you or Sarah (who also seems to have been insulted for some reason).

[Howard]

Why the hostile response? Is criticism instantly taken to be an insult by you?

[kakarot]

i am here to argue..not to fight ...i actually hate fighting...i am a pacifist.... my point about timbering was a valid one...for you to call me immoral cause of my carnoivorous habits..is like the raven calling the crow black...was merely there to make a point and i believe it had everything to do with being a vegetarian... actually i am not muc up for debate today so i will just stop here till i am feeling better
kakarot


morrissey friends