What "Moz" thinks of fans

[Danny]

I think the problem is fans are more attached to the Smiths than Morrissey is and they are angry when he doesn't share their views. What people fail to take into account is that these are real people with real connections to each other.

Think about how you feel about friends you had twenty years ago (if you are old enough) and then you'll get some idea of how Morrissey just cannot have the sort of nostalgia for the Smiths than his fans can. Then think about how you feel about friends who let you down a long time ago (this is how Morrissey perceives it) and you are even closer to how he must feel. Then think about how you'd feel if every other day people kept asking you about this friend you had twenty years ago and why you didn't call them. Then think about how you'd feel if these people kept asking you why you like your current friends more than your half forgotten disloyal friend.

And there is a reason why Morrissey likes his current band more than the Smiths. They are obviously much more into live shows than the Smiths were. They obviously enjoy it more and therefore Morrissey probably feels more supported and it's more fun for him.

[Danny]

I agree that his or her story doesn't sound very realistic.

I don't believe it either.

[Worm]

True, Danny, but Morrissey is an artist. He's on this planet for one thing, and that's to write and sing songs. He did that best with The Smiths. He has also done it fabulously well with his solo bandmates, too, but he did it best with The Smiths. I totally understand his anger (or indifference, at this point) to his former friends and collaborators, but I do not understand his apparent disregard for the music they made, or at least a good deal of the music they made.

Also, on the point about live music: weren't The Smiths much more interested in playing live gigs than Morrissey? Wasn't it often said that they had to drag him out on the road? Marr might have been more interested in sticking to the studio toward the end, but my impression was that the other Smiths were enthusiastic about shows and Morrissey wasn't.

[WinkWink]

Kumo, thanks for posting that. I envy those early meetings. I'm not surprised that he became harder to deal with as the years went on. I'm guessing that he likes and respects his audience as much as ever, but probably feels that he no longer needs to "mix" as much. Strangely, I don't see that as being on a high horse. It's not "Golden Lights". I think he's just older and pickier about how he spends his time. Not really a big deal. In the end, compared to many artists, I think he's still pretty generous to his fans.



He shouldn't look to the past, no. I'm glad he's moved on. He has a lot to be proud of and I'd be disappointed if he were stuck in the past.

I think what bothered some people about that comment is that, one, it appeared that he was settling for less. A great number of people liked (and still liked) his musicians with The Smiths better-- guys who were better creatively and in terms of basic musicianship. (You could also say they were a step down from his "Viva Hate" lineup.) That's debatable, I know, and I don't intend to go there yet again. Two, and this is probably more the view of a minority of people (which includes me), it was disappointing because it also seemed that he was saying he preferred a band lineup he controlled completely. A dictatorship rather than a partnership.

Plus, the comment, when I heard it, was prefaced by Morrissey saying "A lot of times, when bands aren't around anymore, we tend to romanticize them." Well, I admit I romanticize The Smiths as much as anyone but I'm rational enough to know that the idea of his new band being preferable to his old one to be utterly absurd.

At the same time, I understood why he said it. And because above all else he needed to break free of The Smiths, I was glad he recruited them and I've loved most of the stuff they've done together since 1991. But preferable to The Smiths? Nope. I am only talking about the difference between "excellent" and "perfect", but...nope. The thing is, he couldn't say "The Smiths were perfect but we all must move on, and what I'm doing now is worth everyone's love and admiration, too", so I understand why he said what he said. He has to distance himself.

I just wish he didn't sound so bitter and disillusioned about The Smiths. That's disappointing, and that's the reason why some fans are a bit annoyed. Too many people are hung up on the idea that if you praise The Smiths you're dissing his current band and vice versa, Morrissey as much as anyone. To tweak your question a little, we could ask, "Why can't he happily look to the past?" Playing Smiths songs live does that a little, I suppose, but in his press it's a different matter. It went from "The Smiths are absolute perfection, the greatest band in the world and probably ever" from '83-'87 to "I have to say that The Smiths' back catalogue says nothing to me about my life" and "For me, it's like a fish dying very slowly on the harbour wall". I'd prefer he said nothing. The healthiest perspective on The Smiths was in "Break Up The Family". Since then it's gone downhill.

oh worm worm worm...how seldom i disagree with you. The whole flaw in your argument is that your admiration of the smiths is subjective. Morrissey may really like his solo music better than the smiths. I think it is outrageous you don't give him this opinion, and expect to say what YOU want him to say. I, as well as, many others here feel the same way. The Smiths music to me sounds too juvenile. his solo is more mature. and of course morrissey did mature with age. he became deeper with his lyrics--the solo band complimented that. I prefer it so much more.

I don't believe kumo's post. everyone, repeat after me: a first time poster, appearing out of nowhere, is probably a troll and has no credibility.

[WinkWink]

Also, on the point about live music: weren't The Smiths much more interested in playing live gigs than Morrissey? Wasn't it often said that they had to drag him out on the road? Marr might have been more interested in sticking to the studio toward the end, but my impression was that the other Smiths were enthusiastic about shows and Morrissey wasn't.

because he didn't like them. he dreaded being with them. they weren't compatible.

[sonof77]

I met Morrissey ...err forget it you wouldn't believe me anyway.

[Kumo]

For those of you who don't believe me, I don't really care. I have plenty of photos and every Smiths 45 signed but 1, what do you have? doubt and bitterness? I think I got the better deal...

As for how he felt about the breakup
Smiths broke up in 1987 in 1991 he was still very much in Smiths mode, and then just a bit later Kill Uncle time something snaped. He was very strongly anti-smiths how he feels now I don't know. I wasn't ready to let go at the time, but now I softened up on it. Vaxhaul is as good as any Smiths album.
But it took me a long time to realize it.

Also around that time in LA his fan base changed, something else I wasn't ready for either.

I would like to meet him again, I would like to get something signed with his new Autograph with those loopy Rs he does now.

In the end I have no clue how he feels now, I could only give you a snapshot from the past. email me if you want to see any pics...

Cheers,

Kumo

p.s. not a first time poster, just forgot my old account name and password so created a new one...

[Kumo]

The Smiths music to me sounds too juvenile. his solo is more mature. and of course morrissey did mature with age. he became deeper with his lyrics--the solo band complimented that. I prefer it so much more.

If you take Morrissey out of the picture, the Smiths music (to me) was vastly superior far more creative and unique. Put Morrissey back in the picture the Smiths music was always written first and Morrissey would put words to it later, the superior music led to better lyrics. When I was 16 listening to the Smtihs, the words said more to me about my life at the time. Morrissey's music today says nothing to me when I was 16 and it says nothing to me now at 35. I still enjoy most of it. It's pleasant to listen to. But the fire is gone... The Smiths trigger some very intense nostalgic feelings that cannot be replaced by anything new he does. However the threat of humor in his lyrics is as sharp as ever.

cheers,

Kumo

[Danny]

True, Danny, but Morrissey is an artist. He's on this planet for one thing, and that's to write and sing songs. He did that best with The Smiths. He has also done it fabulously well with his solo bandmates, too, but he did it best with The Smiths. I totally understand his anger (or indifference, at this point) to his former friends and collaborators, but I do not understand his apparent disregard for the music they made, or at least a good deal of the music they made.

Also, on the point about live music: weren't The Smiths much more interested in playing live gigs than Morrissey? Wasn't it often said that they had to drag him out on the road? Marr might have been more interested in sticking to the studio toward the end, but my impression was that the other Smiths were enthusiastic about shows and Morrissey wasn't.

No, I think you've got it wrong there. Marr himself has said that he wasn't keen on live performance and Morrissey was the one that booked the tours and he just went along with them. Do you honestly think Rourke and Joyce had the authority to drag Morrissey out on tour?

Watch a live performance of The Smiths and then watch something like Live in Dallas and you'll understand the difference in the support Morrissey received on stage. In The Smiths Morrissey had to carry the band live much more. It must be difficult if most of the time the rest of the band are just looking at their shoes.

I've never heard Morrissey disregard the music he made with the Smiths. He strikes me as being very proud of it. Didn't he say that the only thing he values from that time are the songs?

[sonof77]

I think it comes down to C.O.N.F.I.D.E.N.C.E. Scotty Moore was a great guitarist and so was Johnny, but it should of been MORRISSEY from the very start.

[Worm]

oh worm worm worm...how seldom i disagree with you. The whole flaw in your argument is that your admiration of the smiths is subjective. Morrissey may really like his solo music better than the smiths. I think it is outrageous you don't give him this opinion, and expect to say what YOU want him to say. I, as well as, many others here feel the same way. The Smiths music to me sounds too juvenile. his solo is more mature. and of course morrissey did mature with age. he became deeper with his lyrics--the solo band complimented that. I prefer it so much more.

I don't begrudge Morrissey or anyone else the right to prefer 1988-2007 over 1983-1987. Really.

Of course the issue of how good The Smiths were is subjective. I can't say The Smiths are superior to Morrissey solo is a fact any more than I can say that no one in his right mind could possibly like Justin Timberlake. No accounting for taste. What I'm talking about is Morrissey's own opinion of The Smiths. I don't think there's a single article published in the lifetime of The Smiths in which Morrissey didn't offer some rave review of their records. He was tremendously, overwhelmingly proud of The Smiths*. (At one time he was even complimentary of Rourke and Joyce, but who knows about that.)

Then, beginning in 1991 and 1992 and growing with strength year by year he became more dismissive of his body of work with The Smiths, to the point where he said-- in the Q interview I quoted above and echoed elsewhere-- that The Smiths' music wasn't really as good as critics and fans said. We'd gotten it wrong because of our nostalgia. This at a time when he was fighting Joyce in court and starting to actively despise the others. Coincidence? Doubt it. His personal dislike for his ex-bandmates seems to have twisted his opinion of the music they made, and it's sometimes a little annoying to people who only care about the music.

I think all of our impressions of The Smiths are distorted somewhat. All I mean to say is that so is Morrissey's impression, and his comments have been at times annoyingly disparaging of The Smiths. I grant that he needs to move on and I'm glad he has. His solo career is wonderful. I wouldn't shed a tear if he never played another Smiths song in concert ever again. But it rankles to hear him go from total love of The Smiths to...well, whatever his stance is now.

I think the issue of juvenile versus mature music is complicated. As someone who is older than most of the posters on this site, I'd be the first to attest that his growth has been great to watch and I think his more "mature" music is great stuff. In fact, I couldn't be happier that he's moved on from his more teenage-oriented songs. When I hear a song like "Girl Afraid" or "Accept Yourself" I basically like his words and the sound of the band playing. The songs don't matter nearly as much. Even "Viva Hate", my favorite solo album, felt much more mature than "Strangeways"! So I completely agree that his mature work has qualities his younger work doesn't. Having said that, though, I don't think you can say that mature automatically means better and juvenile means worse. I disagree with you there. And since we're talking about his backing bands, again, in my opinion, The Smiths were better musicians than any of his solo lineups, though I hasten to add that his solo lineups have been great too.

___________________
*By the way, if you discount his praise of The Smiths as him saying "the right thing" because he was in the band at the time, you could say the same about the praise he heaps on his current lineup.

[Worm]

Didn't he say that the only thing he values from that time are the songs?

He said that, but in a way that implied that they were his songs and his alone. Which is another way of saying "Thank God I'm rid of those freeloaders"-- slightly insulting to Marr, one might say. But I don't have any interviews in front of me, so I may be wrong.

[Sir Alec]

Can anyone read his mind? Nope, well lets not be so quick to assume we know what he thinks.

Edited: So I don't sound like a total smart ass. Just a smart ass in general.

[Worm]

Can anyone read his mind? Nope, well lets not be so quick to assume we know what he thinks.

Edited: So I don't sound like a total smart ass. Just a smart ass in general.

Believe me, I know it's hazardous. This, after all, is the man who gave us:

"Q: On what occasions do you lie?

A: When completely unnecessary".

[Kumo]

As with all of us, I sure his thoughts on the matter have changed and evolved over time. What I was trying to express is was a very abrupt change in 1991 from completely being in love with the smiths to not wanting to talk about them at all. Something snapped something happened, and what it was that turned him we will never know. It was a very abrupt when the change happened. That's what I found most interesting, I would love to know what it was that set him off. Over the years he seems to have softened up a bit, from playing NO smiths songs to now playing 25% smiths song from signing NO smiths records to autographing them with a new signature.

Kumo

[Sir Alec]

Believe me, I know it's hazardous. This, after all, is the man who gave us:

"Q: On what occasions do you lie?

A: When completely unnecessary".

Haha! Hes one complex man. As far as we know Jake was hired to act like his boyfriend.

[Kewpie]

As with all of us, I sure his thoughts on the matter have changed and evolved over time. What I was trying to express is was a very abrupt change in 1991 from completely being in love with the smiths to not wanting to talk about them at all. Something snapped something happened, and what it was that turned him we will never know. It was a very abrupt when the change happened. That's what I found most interesting, I would love to know what it was that set him off. Over the years he seems to have softened up a bit, from playing NO smiths songs to now playing 25% smiths song from signing NO smiths records to autographing them with a new signature.

Kumo

When an artist who is plan to launch a successful solo career after the split of former band he/she has to stop playing the past materials for good.

It's very natural that Morrissey didn't play any Smiths songs until mid 90s.

[Worm]

As far as we know Jake was hired to act like his boyfriend.

Believe me, Morrissey was happy to give him his part.

[Danny]

Worm, I have no idea where you have got this impression that Morrissey doesn't rate the Smiths musically. In every interview I have seen of him he has had nothing but praise for the Smiths music. Unless you are taking as fact the story this Kumo is spinning.

[Worm]

Worm, I have no idea where you have got this impression that Morrissey doesn't rate the Smiths musically. In every interview I have seen of him he has had nothing but praise for the Smiths music. Unless you are taking as fact the story this Kumo is spinning.

I'm not basing my opinion on Kumo's post. The basic drift of Kumo's post pretty much aligns with what I've thought, although I don't think Morrissey is as bitter or estranged from his fans as Kumo seems to think.

But as for the quotes...ah...well, you've got me there because I'm talking about things I've picked up here and there for the last 10 years or so. How about the quote I copied above, from Q? That was pretty strong. I'd have to comb through articles to find the other things he said, which I'm not presently too anxious to do. They're spread out over several years and sometimes slight. Perhaps someone else reading the thread can chime in.