Jack Straw and his innate hatred of Muslim women

[dazzak]

That got your attention. So, what's... your... opinion?

[dazzak]

Oh, come on. Tear yourselves away from masturbating over Morrissey's youthful, good looks and listing things for a few minutes.

[drunken goldfish]

Maybe it would help if you'd explain what you're talking about. I'm personally too occupied with "masturbating and listing" to brush up on current events, especially those in the UK.

[dazzak]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5411954.stm

The latest Muslim furore.

[bikubesong]

I read parts of it-- The same thing was discussed in Norway a year ago. I cannot see the problem with muslim women wearing veils- as long as it's their own choice. We're critisising muslim leaders for disallowing girls in muslim countries to wear miniskirts etc.. And then we do the same thing to them here with again not allowing them to wear what they want??

Sorry about my English, I KNOW it's not good.

[wolve]

Saw it on television, didn't understand

[drunken goldfish]

You want to opress yourself, be my guest.

[dazzak]

You want to opress yourself, be my guest.

So you think if women choose to cover up their face as a result of their interpretation of the Qur'an they are opressing themselves?

[drunken goldfish]

Yes. Just like I think Jewish Orthodox women oppresse themselves when they shave their head and wear ridiculous wigs instead, so they won't be attractive, God forbid. How could it not be oppressive when there's such a double standard between men and women?

[dazzak]

Yes. Just like I think Jewish Orthodox women oppresse themselves when they shave their head and wear ridiculous wigs instead, so they won't be attractive, God forbid. How could it not be oppressive when there's such a double standard between men and women?

From my fairly rudimentary knowledge of Judaism, I don't think they shave their heads to look unattractive. Isn't it to be clean for the mivka bath? The same goes for men, but as women's hair is longer, they shave it off to accommodate their interpretation of the requirements. I don't see how their choice to do so could be oppressive.

[drunken goldfish]

^^Regarding Jews: Women's hair is one of their most attractive features, therefore if they're married they're supposed to keep it covered with a hat or a wig (if you're not married you don't have to, but you need to keep if in a ponytail, braid etc.). I've never heard of a mikve connection, so I can't comment. Women are also required to dress modestly, which means religious women wear long sleeved shirts in 30+ degrees weather, while the men walk around in shorts. If that is not discrimination and oppression, I don't know what is. Judaism is also oppressive towards women in tons of other ways, btw.

Regarding Muslims: As far as I know, the modesty thing is also the reason for covering the face - you'll notice Muslim men aren't required to do that. Again I ask, how is that not oppression?

[dazzak]

Well, I have talked to, read and heard Muslim women in the West defend their right to wear whatever they so choose. Lots of Muslim women feel it is empowering. I totally agree that forced wearing of the veil is opression, but in the West, I think you'll find that the vast majority of women choose to wear it. Where is the opression in freedom of choice?

[drunken goldfish]

As I said, they're opprsseing themselves. They choose to accept oppressive beliefs. I have to go now but I'll write a more lengthy reply later.

[DeliciousDemon]

I come from a place that suffered from hatred and ethic/religious intolerance a lot so seeing all that and knowing what cosequences it brings I'm all for "live and let live" concept. If it doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't bother me. If people have their reasons to wear these vails or shave their heads because they think it's a proper thing to do then who am I to judge? I'm fine with it as long as it's their choice - and in most cases it is.

[helmoz]

i agree with all the comments here. if they choose to wear certain clothes for religious reasons, it's their own choice, they should be free to do that. i don't think they should be forced to wear them, or forced not to wear them, though.
i see no problem at all with people just covering their hair, as you can still see their faces, although covering the face (as some do) could cause problems: what if they have to show their face for a reason, e.g. if they need to have a photo of the face for a passport? but otherwise it should be ok for people to wear what they want.

[chica]

I agree with Jack Straw on this one. How the hell can you have a proper conversation with someone if you can't see their face? It's not even a religious garment, as anyone who has read the Koran from cover to cover will know. No-where in the Koran does it mention veils.

It is a garment of oppression. Why is it only the women who wear the veils? It conveys a powerful, destructive message, which is that the female form is offensive, and should be covered up. Unsurprising, considering basically all organised religion is inherently misogynist, but Islam is particularly bad for misogyny.

Also, too many muslims actively choose to segregate themselves by embracing things like the veil, yet moan about how badly they're treated. Many of them don't want to integrate; they'd rather mix with their own people and look down on the 'sinful' ways of white Britons, which is pretty rich coming from people who invariably advocate oppression and the death penalty. The government has been more than accomodating to immigrants, and allowing muslim immigrants into the country/supplying them with benefits, yet a white British newsreader is told she cannot wear a cross because of it's religious implications. Disgusting double standards.

Few people can even mention all of the terrorist attacks without getting accused of being racist, which is deeply wrong.

I can actually see that particular situation in this country escalating dangerously. I fear for the safety of white Britons, as any sane person should.

Horseshoe is an example of left-wing and right-wing extremism. They are much closer to each other than to the center. That's one of the reasons why I fear leftist extremists, however cute I may find their views from time to time.

Jo, is your real name Enoch?

[chica]

Criticizing death penalty and violation of human rights is one thing, believing in superiority of one nation/race is something completely different.

Why on earth should every Muslim in the UK want to "integrate"? What makes your culture superior to theirs?

[Sir Alec]

See, this is a problem. Anyone so much as voices any criticism of the muslim race, and suddenly, all the goody-goodys pop up and start shouting 'racist!' It's so silly. I used to be a goody-goody too, but it is not sustainable in this day and age. Sorry.

There is no such thing is a Muslim Race. There are Arabs, Persians, Turks, Israelis and many others in the middle east. Not all of them are muslim, but they are all in the same area.

I find it funny you can even respond to this thread without knowing that.

For the record, I'm against ALL organised religion, including Islam and all forms of Christianity. I find that all the Christians I've ever know display the most UN-Christian behaviour.

True, but some organized religion is okay, its just overly used. Some people just live better being led around all their lives, while others like like to customize their religion to fit their lives. Some people, like me, just don't give a shit about anything.

I have major problems with Islam, numbers 1 and 2 on the list being the use of the death penalty against minors in Iran and Tehran, and the oppression of woman. Surely no-one can be in support of these things?

That is not necessarily the right practice of Islam, just like the KKK doesn't practice the proper form of protestant christianity. Oppression of women is almost all the major religions such as Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism, but most religious people in the 21st century should avoid this for Chica's sake.

[chica]

Welcome on board SA! (God this sounded like it has something to do with Hitler... )

[Sir Alec]

Welcome on board SA! (God this sounded like it has something to do with Hitler... )

Heil Chica!

I just hope joroberts17 learns something from my post and uses it for future reference.

Sieg Heil!

Edit: Wanna to know something funny about Nazi Germany and its history in my family?