post your top 5 artists/bands of all time - what else do MOZ fans listen to?

[brokenddd]

You're probably right there about the imagine. Radiohead are middle class public school boys, don't dress like pop stars, and do a very businesslike, if impressive, live show.

But yes, radiohead's sound, aprticularly on OK Computer, was cose to an experimental Morrisseyesque sound. The main difference between ok computer and southpaw grammar is the quality of the songwriting, which favours radiohead, and the musical complexity and quality of production. Vauxhall was closer to a softer ok computer in that it had the songs, and some eclectic styles with experimental moments here and there. If Morrissey just had the guts to sit down and make something daring and unusual, I believe he has the musicians to pull it off in grand style.

He's already done it with individual songs like "Teachers" "pigsty" and "lifeguard sleeping" using the musicians he has now. WHy not empower himself and make an entire album of such brave, expansive songs?

I love Morrissey's pop aesthetic and I adore the breezier stuff like IBEH and Alma Matters but I would love to see him beat raidohead at their own game and he could - easily! His musicians are excellent, all he needs is the bravery to say "let's do it" and to hire the right kind of producer - nigel goodrich or brian eno for example.

But that's in the future. Right now, he's got a fantastic album out called ringleader of the tormentors and it seems like his finest ever solo album. I love it and I'm glad he made it - I just want to hear Morrissey doing an avant garde prog rock album at some point!

> Yes, I agree, and, well, I don't mean to fawn unnecessarily, but it seems
> to me that the band is simply full of virtuosic musicians. Some people can
> play any instrument, and there's at least 3 of those people in Radiohead.

> Morrissey - yes, I suspect he probably dislikes Thom Yorke's lyrics and
> style of vocal delivery. It's not that Thom Yorke's lyrics are bad
> (usually), but quite rarely are they the best part of the song, which has
> often been the case with Morrissey. Also, I'd imagine it's significant
> that Radiohead are not much to look at. Aside from Thom looking weird
> (actually I think he's rather cute but, you know, obviously not patterned
> after Morrissey's favorite models of masculinity) and Johnny having those
> cheekbones (+ditto), there's not much to see. Usually, Radiohead seem to
> deliberately deflect that kind of attention, which Morrissey never has,
> the New York Dolls didn't, James Dean certainly didn't, etc. Radiohead
> never get terribly glammed up.

> Also, Radiohead's live shows don't sound hugely different from the album,
> and they hardly interact with the audience at all during gigs, so, that's
> quite a contrast to Morrissey's approach. Obviously nobody storms the
> stage to hug Thom Yorke.

> When he listens to the instrumentation, though, I honestly can't fathom
> why Morrissey doesn't like Radiohead. It sounds like The Smiths AND it
> sounds like Morrissey's solo work! I don't get it.

> I agree with you that The Bends and OK Computer are absolutely gorgeous
> records. I am one of those odd ones out who likes Kid A the best.

> love, math+

[Good_Mourning]

Smiths/Morrissey
Smashing Pumpkins
Beatles
Nada Surf
James

[KrisV]

I don't want to give them an order, because it's just too difficult.

Morrissey / Smiths
Grandaddy
Eels
Catatonia
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club

[James Clarke]

In no particular order:

REM
Radiohead
Moz/Smiths
The Flaming Lips
Blur

[Math Tinder]

I wonder, if Morrissey doesn't like Radiohead, do I ACTUALLY want him to do an avant-prog album. Would it be good enough to justify it? I do like Southpaw Grammar, very very much, especially The Operation, but there are definitely moments it feels strained, at least for me. [Sometimes quite strained actually, but I still love the album to bits, some just-incredible songs.] Do I really want Moz to try and dedicate his efforts to this different kind of project, when what really strikes me, again and again, is his ability to write great pop songs? Hmm I wonder if Morrissey has any regard for Can? I wonder what he thought/thinks of Metal Machine Music? [The first time I ever listened to it was 2000, but it's always sounded great to my ear, I have no problems with it. You like VU/Reed brokenddd; do you like Metal Machine Music?]

Back on Morrissey, I remain extremely intrigued by the potential Pixies reference on Life Is a Pigsty - apparently 'La vida total es un porqueria, porqueria' in Oh My Golly by The Pixies (on Surfer Rosa, sung entirely in Spanish) - apparently that line translates as 'All of life is a pigsty, pigsty.' (I should note that I've never been able to get a Spanish speaker to confirm that translation of 'porqueria', though. It certainly sounds like it should mean 'pigsty'; a few lyric sites translate the lyric as 'all of life is shitty, shitty'; Babelfish English->Spanish 'pigsty' and you get 'pocilga'. Maybe 'porqueria' seems more in line with 'pork store' or something [?], but my knowledge of Spanish is entirely shameful for someone who originally grew up in L.A.; I know more French and Italian, for whatever reason.)

Anyway, I wonder if the Pixies reference is intentional. The Pixies were a huge and obvious influence on Radiohead, particularly Thom Yorke. Is it just a coincidence, the Pigsty lyric, or does Morrissey like The Pixies? To me, it makes a lot of sense that Morrissey would like The Pixies - I mean, Cactus alone, 'A letter in your writing doesn't mean you're not dead' [hellooooo Moz!!] - but again, if Moz liked The Pixies, why.wouldn't.he.like.Radiohead?! [You know, when I saw Radiohead headline Coachella 2004 - I know this fact is fairly well-known anyway, but Thom Yorke actually said into the mic, between songs, 'When I was in college, three bands changed my life. The Smiths, The Pixies, and R.E.M.]

We'll never know why Radiohead mean 'nothing' to Morrissey! It really is such a very confusing thought.

brokenddd, if you feel like continuing the discussion (no pressure either way), what are your favorite Radiohead songs? Mine are
Stop Whispering
The Bends
Fake Plastic Trees [i understand why people find this track overly saccharin, 'Radiohead's Everybody Hurts' - and in fact i hate R.E.M.'s Everybody Hurts although i'm a huge R.E.M. fan - but somehow, the magic of Fake Plastic Trees arrives intact in my lap - that 'if I could BE / who you wanted' manages to be unexpected again and again and again]
My Iron Lung
Airbag
Let Down
No Surprises
Lucky
Everything In Its Right Place [and everything on Kid A, but especially...]
Kid A
Idioteque
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Knives Out [brokenddd, did you know that before releasing Amnesiac, Radiohead played Knives Out specially for Johnny Marr and basically said to him, 'We hope we're not ripping you off too directly' - Johnny was very flattered - the song has got a FANTASTIC, Smiths-esque riff]
Life in a Glasshouse [****my favorite Radiohead track!! an odd one that's rarely picked]
Backdrifts
There There [* close second for favorite - I saw them do this at the Hollywood Bowl with 3 members on drums, including Thom Yorke as he sang! incredible!]
Where I End and You Begin

I'm afraid I'm not very good with the b-sides, etc. There are SO many. I can only imagine how deeply and repeatedly the Radiohead catalog will be mined, practically forever, once the band stops making music. I was very charmed by Killer Cars when I was a lot younger; I'm not sure what I'd think if I heard it now.

much love, math+

[Bluebirds]

I've changed my mind

1) Five Star
2) Brother Beyond
3) The Pasadenas
4) Right Said Fred
5) Sinitta

[brokenddd]

1 You
2 Paranoid Android
3 Airbag
4 Street Spirit
5 Nice Dream
6 Sail to the Moon
7 Planet Telex
8 Creep
9 Lucky
10 Fake Plastic Trees

I see what you're saying there but I'm not a huge fan of southpaw grammar. I found some of the songs weedy (do your best, dagenham dave) some of them too long - boy racer was a 2 minute hit not a 5 minute dirge - and the operation didn't need a 3 min drum solo or annoying thrash at the end). Southpaw Grammar was, basically, half of a very good album.

Take Teachers, reader, a shortened boy racer, southpaw and operation and throw in best friend and another 3 or 4 ncie songs (like nobody loves us and sunny/boxers) and you have a potentially very good album.

As usual I get around the problem by compiling my own version of the album with my favourite songs off the album edited to suit my own preference and a few other superfluous tracks from other albums or b-sides thrown in. It's great - that way, I get to listen to an album I personally love, without sitting through 3 or 4 songs I dislike or feel nothing for. Most music fans seem to have a deep masochistic streak, and believe they should learn to love an album as its released out of some odd desire to please the artist/godhead. I get aorund that problem, so really the actual tracklisting of SG doesn't bother me at all. Let me just put on my stinking, waxy anorak and post my own compilation of an album vaguely resembling SG:

1 Teachers
2 The Operation (with shortened drum solo and a gentle fade instead of the thrash at the end)
3 Boxers
4 Best Friend on the Payroll
5 Reader, Meet Author
6 I'd Love To
7 Don't Make Fun of daddy's Voice (peel version)
8 Jack The Ripper (chicago live version)
9 Maladjusted
10 Southpaw (fades after 5 minutes ish)

I absolutely love that and consider it close to a perfect album, so why not? more people should do what I do and listen primarily to compilations!

ON the point of whether I'd love to hear Morrissey do a more prog rock-ish album, I absolutely think it would be wonderful, but only if he doesn't compromise the sound for the sake of making it more poppy.

The way i see it, Morrissey's "pop" career is reaching a wonderful conclusion. I can't see him on stage playing live, looking dapper, and posing for magazine photos in his 60s, so I would imagine he might retire from live playing and "being a pop star" at 50.

Perhaps then, at 50, he could really let his hair down, safe in the knowledge he's made some fantastic pop music, done some amazing live shows and created a legacy. At 50, I'd love to see him retire from live playing, interviews and all the rest, and just make records, free from the constraints of how it will look, of how it will be received, and how he will perform it live.

imagine him making another final solo pop album before 50, then afterwards he can make the prog rock masterpiece to make radiohead weep, he can make a mico-esque stripped down album of droning lullabies, he can write an album with the new york dolls and simply put it out, he can do an album of cover versions witha twist, or work on an albumw ith DJ shadow and johnny marr, if that's what he wants. The opportunities are limitless. That's what I'd do if I were Morrissey, and what I think he should do. Any thoughts?

> I wonder, if Morrissey doesn't like Radiohead, do I ACTUALLY want him to
> do an avant-prog album. Would it be good enough to justify it? I do like
> Southpaw Grammar, very very much, especially The Operation, but there are
> definitely moments it feels strained, at least for me. [Sometimes quite
> strained actually, but I still love the album to bits, some
> just-incredible songs.] Do I really want Moz to try and dedicate his
> efforts to this different kind of project, when what really strikes me,
> again and again, is his ability to write great pop songs? Hmm I wonder if
> Morrissey has any regard for Can? I wonder what he thought/thinks of Metal
> Machine Music? [The first time I ever listened to it was 2000, but it's
> always sounded great to my ear, I have no problems with it. You like
> VU/Reed brokenddd; do you like Metal Machine Music?]

> Back on Morrissey, I remain extremely intrigued by the potential Pixies
> reference on Life Is a Pigsty - apparently 'La vida total es un porqueria,
> porqueria' in Oh My Golly by The Pixies (on Surfer Rosa, sung entirely in
> Spanish) - apparently that line translates as 'All of life is a pigsty,
> pigsty.' (I should note that I've never been able to get a Spanish speaker
> to confirm that translation of 'porqueria', though. It certainly sounds
> like it should mean 'pigsty'; a few lyric sites translate the lyric as
> 'all of life is shitty, shitty'; Babelfish English->Spanish 'pigsty'
> and you get 'pocilga'. Maybe 'porqueria' seems more in line with 'pork
> store' or something [?], but my knowledge of Spanish is entirely shameful
> for someone who originally grew up in L.A.; I know more French and
> Italian, for whatever reason.)

> Anyway, I wonder if the Pixies reference is intentional. The Pixies were a
> huge and obvious influence on Radiohead, particularly Thom Yorke. Is it
> just a coincidence, the Pigsty lyric, or does Morrissey like The Pixies?
> To me, it makes a lot of sense that Morrissey would like The Pixies - I
> mean, Cactus alone, 'A letter in your writing doesn't mean you're not
> dead' [hellooooo Moz!!] - but again, if Moz liked The Pixies,
> why.wouldn't.he.like.Radiohead?! [You know, when I saw Radiohead headline
> Coachella 2004 - I know this fact is fairly well-known anyway, but Thom
> Yorke actually said into the mic, between songs, 'When I was in college,
> three bands changed my life. The Smiths, The Pixies, and R.E.M.]

> We'll never know why Radiohead mean 'nothing' to Morrissey! It really is
> such a very confusing thought.

> brokenddd, if you feel like continuing the discussion (no pressure either
> way), what are your favorite Radiohead songs? Mine are
> Stop Whispering
> The Bends
> Fake Plastic Trees [i understand why people find this track overly
> saccharin, 'Radiohead's Everybody Hurts' - and in fact i hate R.E.M.'s
> Everybody Hurts although i'm a huge R.E.M. fan - but somehow, the magic of
> Fake Plastic Trees arrives intact in my lap - that 'if I could BE / who
> you wanted' manages to be unexpected again and again and again]
> My Iron Lung
> Airbag
> Let Down
> No Surprises
> Lucky
> Everything In Its Right Place [and everything on Kid A, but especially...]
> Kid A
> Idioteque
> Motion Picture Soundtrack
> Knives Out [brokenddd, did you know that before releasing Amnesiac,
> Radiohead played Knives Out specially for Johnny Marr and basically said
> to him, 'We hope we're not ripping you off too directly' - Johnny was very
> flattered - the song has got a FANTASTIC, Smiths-esque riff]
> Life in a Glasshouse [****my favorite Radiohead track!! an odd one that's
> rarely picked]
> Backdrifts
> There There [* close second for favorite - I saw them do this at the
> Hollywood Bowl with 3 members on drums, including Thom Yorke as he sang!
> incredible!]
> Where I End and You Begin

> I'm afraid I'm not very good with the b-sides, etc. There are SO many. I
> can only imagine how deeply and repeatedly the Radiohead catalog will be
> mined, practically forever, once the band stops making music. I was very
> charmed by Killer Cars when I was a lot younger; I'm not sure what I'd
> think if I heard it now.

> much love, math+

[Math Tinder]

Well, certainly, most people here already know this, and this post is quite buried, but just in case - in my last post, above, I worded it as though all of Surfer Rosa by The Pixies is in Spanish. No. The song Oh My Golly on Surfer Rosa is entirely in Spanish; the other songs are in English. Surfer Rosa has Where Is My Mind, Cactus, Gigantic, Bone Machine, many famous Pixies songs.

OK then.

(And 'eavesdropping' is not a nasty word it's what a message board is for.)

[Math Tinder]

Creep! You know, I have to say I actually don't hear that cited often. For a long time, my boyfriend thought the lyric was 'I'm a creep / I'm a widow', which actually is quite evocative coming out of Thom Yorke's mouth [I think so anyway, and so did he]. On the night I had the unfortunate duty of explaining that the line was merely 'weirdo', my boyfriend lost a lot of respect for Radiohead...

Airbag is an incredible song, oft-overlooked, very much self-reflexively about singing and breathing [and many other things too of course]. 'An airbag saved my life'... cars, CPR, etc, of course, but I always think about a singer sucking in air to, then, sing. 'The songs that saved your life'... And Lucky is, of course, utterly unstoppable.

Wow, it's great how much thought you've put into Morrissey's upcoming artistic/career moves! Poor Sanctuary, I really hope there IS a next album and everything. I wouldn't honestly have a problem with Morrissey releasing another pop album at age 55 or whatever - in fact, being only 22 myself, Morrissey has changed the way I view age in a lot of ways. But if instead he puts out a prog masterpiece, I will be first in line to buy it. If he puts out an opera record, I'll be first in line to buy that. If he puts out a Starbucks exclusive CD... oh dear, I don't know what I would do...

Your mixtape, yes that is a good one, and yes rearranging/creating playlists certainly comes naturally these days. Don't Make Fun of Daddy's Voice on your mix - one of my favorite Morrissey songs EVER by the way; I think [?] I was at the gig where he debuted it - was it originally written around the time of Southpaw Grammar, or are you just being fairly liberal with the list (no harm in that)? The Operation, again, one of my favorite Morrissey songs ever (fellow VU fan - I have always thought of it as an obvious response to Lady Godiva's Operation? - as though Morrissey though 'you know what I can also write a song about a sex-change operation that is long, dead sexy, and quite unnerving' - and then, well, he did) - but I QUITE agree with you about the drums. It could have been a much more powerful song with a drum solo of about a minute, don't you think? Definitely has some of my favorite Moz lyrics ever. 'Everyone here is sick to the tattoo of you'!!

I like Do Your Best and Don't Worry, and if I may turn the topic briefly to Radiohead again, I always thought Do Your Best was an obvious precursor to Radiohead's Optimistic - 'do your best and no, don't worry, no' -> 'try the best you can / the best you can is good enough'. Funnily enough though, I don't like Southpaw's opuses, The Teachers Are... and Southpaw. They do nothing for me. I think this is partly why I hesitate before truly thinking Morrissey ought to make a prog record... but yeah, I know what you mean, new genres can be very good, new muses can be very good. We'll see!

Can't wait to hear some Radiohead tracks this summer...

love, math+

[brokenddd]

an interesting conversation - a rare thing indeed on this site these days.

enjoyed it

all the best

> Creep! You know, I have to say I actually don't hear that cited often. For
> a long time, my boyfriend thought the lyric was 'I'm a creep / I'm a
> widow', which actually is quite evocative coming out of Thom Yorke's mouth
> [I think so anyway, and so did he]. On the night I had the unfortunate
> duty of explaining that the line was merely 'weirdo', my boyfriend lost a
> lot of respect for Radiohead...

> Airbag is an incredible song, oft-overlooked, very much self-reflexively
> about singing and breathing [and many other things too of course]. 'An
> airbag saved my life'... cars, CPR, etc, of course, but I always think
> about a singer sucking in air to, then, sing. 'The songs that saved your
> life'... And Lucky is, of course, utterly unstoppable.

> Wow, it's great how much thought you've put into Morrissey's upcoming
> artistic/career moves! Poor Sanctuary, I really hope there IS a next album
> and everything. I wouldn't honestly have a problem with Morrissey
> releasing another pop album at age 55 or whatever - in fact, being only 22
> myself, Morrissey has changed the way I view age in a lot of ways. But if
> instead he puts out a prog masterpiece, I will be first in line to buy it.
> If he puts out an opera record, I'll be first in line to buy that. If he
> puts out a Starbucks exclusive CD... oh dear, I don't know what I would
> do...

> Your mixtape, yes that is a good one, and yes rearranging/creating
> playlists certainly comes naturally these days. Don't Make Fun of Daddy's
> Voice on your mix - one of my favorite Morrissey songs EVER by the way; I
> think [?] I was at the gig where he debuted it - was it originally written
> around the time of Southpaw Grammar, or are you just being fairly liberal
> with the list (no harm in that)? The Operation, again, one of my favorite
> Morrissey songs ever (fellow VU fan - I have always thought of it as an
> obvious response to Lady Godiva's Operation? - as though Morrissey though
> 'you know what I can also write a song about a sex-change operation that
> is long, dead sexy, and quite unnerving' - and then, well, he did) - but I
> QUITE agree with you about the drums. It could have been a much more
> powerful song with a drum solo of about a minute, don't you think?
> Definitely has some of my favorite Moz lyrics ever. 'Everyone here is sick
> to the tattoo of you'!!

> I like Do Your Best and Don't Worry, and if I may turn the topic briefly
> to Radiohead again, I always thought Do Your Best was an obvious precursor
> to Radiohead's Optimistic - 'do your best and no, don't worry, no' ->
> 'try the best you can / the best you can is good enough'. Funnily enough
> though, I don't like Southpaw's opuses, The Teachers Are... and Southpaw.
> They do nothing for me. I think this is partly why I hesitate before truly
> thinking Morrissey ought to make a prog record... but yeah, I know what
> you mean, new genres can be very good, new muses can be very good. We'll
> see!

> Can't wait to hear some Radiohead tracks this summer...

> love, math+

[bubble]

moz/ smiths
libs/ babyshambles
nightwish
him
interpol
queen....

[Math Tinder]

[Kerki]

1:Morrissey/The Smiths
2avid Bowie
3:The Cure
4:Echo & the Bunnymen
5:Siouxsie & The Banshees
6:Oasis
7:The Stone Roses/Ian Brown
8:Autopsy
9:Queen
10:Nosferatu

[Reality Check 101]

> 1 morrissey/smiths
> 2 radiohead
> 3 t rex
> 4 velvet underground/lou reed
> 5 david bowie

moz/smith - of course plus:

1.) belle & sebastian

2.) radiohead

3.) tori amos

4.) portishead

5.) goofy disco tunes from the 70s... donna summer, bee gees other crap like this

[Reality Check 101]

6) led zeppelin (+ doors, pink floyd) classic rock that is...
7) erukah badu
kelis/neptunes sh*t
9) goldfrapp
10)sepultura

[gonzax]

[diary]

Eddie Cochran
Presley
Lauren atkins
smiths
Supergrass

[greg]

moz
smiths
rolling stones
the beautiful south
stone roses

[deathfornoreason]

1) The Smiths/Morrissey
2) The Decemberists
3) Pulp
4) Joy Division
5) Shirley Collins