in response to those who say morrissey does not write his own music

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constantin constantius

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anybody with sensitive ears can tell that morrissey's voice and the melodies he sings comes from the same head. and another thing, what did johnny marr do after the smiths? what did stephen street do before and after morrissey? what did a whyte or m boorer do before morrissey? what did sl corbin, rourke, armstrong, langer... what has any of these done comparable to their work with morrissey? fu.ck all!

one of the resons morrissey has never gained mainstream popularity is because, from the smiths to the present day, his music always had common characteristics and traits which don't appeal to large sections of the music buying public, but that common thread running through his whole work would have been impossible if his music was written by a hundred and one different song writers; stylisticly his music would have been all over the place.
 
> anybody with sensitive ears can tell that morrissey's voice and
> the melodies he sings comes from the same head.

If that were true, then why would all the songwriting credits say "Morrissey/_____" ? Is he just being generous?
 
> anybody with sensitive ears can tell that morrissey's voice and
> the melodies he sings comes from the same head. and another
> thing, what did johnny marr do after the smiths? what did
> stephen street do before and after morrissey? what did a whyte
> or m boorer do before morrissey? what did sl corbin, rourke,
> armstrong, langer... what has any of these done comparable to
> their work with morrissey? fu.ck all!

Well, call me stupid but I still claim he doesn't write the tunes. I'll tell you why: the guys, all his musical partners, delivered the INSTRUMENTAL demos - that is a very well known fact. Morrissey then places his lyrics and yes, he thinks of the singing melody - but believe it or not that is not defined as songwriting, it's part of the process of placing the lyrics. I didn't make that up in my retarded head, it's defined in publishing law.

And now sshhh, calm down, it's okay....
 
Re: But in all honesty...

Would anyone seriously like Morrissey less if all of his work were performed a cappella?!

I don't really give a rats bottom what noises are being made behind him, I like the words and I like his lovely voice.

Consider how many people would have run out to buy Johnny Marrs 'LP's of tunes'!

"Spin, spin, spin the wheel of justice watch and see how the bastard turns...What do we want? JUSTICE! When do we want it? NOW!"
 
And another thing...

I think where the confusion lies is the distinction between writing melodies and lyrics. According to various interviews I've read, either Morrissey is there in the studio with the musicians, or they give him demo tapes with instrumental ideas. Morrissey then puts a melody to it and probably rearranges it a bit while he does that (ie, let's do the chorus twice there, take out that bit, etc). This is a pretty standard way of writing songs, especially where the lead singer doesn't play any of the instruments. So yes, the vocal melody and the lyrics did come from the same head. The background music did not.
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

> Would anyone seriously like Morrissey less if all of his work
> were performed a cappella?!

> I don't really give a rats bottom what noises are being made
> behind him, I like the words and I like his lovely voice.

Call me blasphemous but I would...... Yes his lyrics are the main attraction and they are what makes our hearts bleed (or heal??). But just think of the shows we'd be missing - I seriously prefer Moz smashing it out with the lads on "Boyracer" and "Teachers" and whatever, then seeing him read it out or doing free speach. I mean, where would that take place? In our local libraries?? Uuuurrrr, no thank you......
 
> Well, call me stupid but I still claim he doesn't write the
> tunes. I'll tell you why: the guys, all his musical partners,
> delivered the INSTRUMENTAL demos - that is a very well known
> fact. Morrissey then places his lyrics and yes, he thinks of the
> singing melody - but believe it or not that is not defined as
> songwriting, it's part of the process of placing the lyrics. I
> didn't make that up in my retarded head, it's defined in
> publishing law.

> wrong! in an interview johnny marr give concering his collabaration with the singer out of new order ( i can't remmber his name)on a album, he stated that he found his working methods very unusual in relation to song writing. marr said that for the first time in his musical life his collaborator wanted him to write the music first, then he would add the lyrics and what ever else after the instrumentals were complete. now, unless marr contradicted himself, this would suggest that when he worked with morrissy the instrumentals did not come first, they were only added after morrissey had concieved of the melodies and the lyrics.
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

> Call me blasphemous but I would...... Yes his lyrics are the
> main attraction and they are what makes our hearts bleed (or
> heal??). But just think of the shows we'd be missing - I
> seriously prefer Moz smashing it out with the lads on
> "Boyracer" and "Teachers" and whatever, then
> seeing him read it out or doing free speach. I mean, where would
> that take place? In our local libraries?? Uuuurrrr, no thank
> you......

Go further and take it to the logical conclusion captain. Just buy the song sheets and don't buy the guys records. Not that he makes any.
 
Re: Where did you hear that??

I really don't know where you get your information from..... Well unless both Morrissey and Marr lied on several occasions in interviews or Alain Whyte when I spoke to him personally it goes the other way round - music first, then lyrics. I mean HELLLOOOOO - can I get some support here please, I thought everyone knew that??
 
Re: Where did you hear that??

Mimi, you're completely right. This Constantin guy is a pompous jerk. "> wrong!" What is that? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here myself, but having written a fair number of songs with my band (don't throw the beer cans yet please) the music ALWAYS comes first. What Marr was referring to was that Bernard Sumner (that's his name, Mr. Knows It All About Rock N Roll) wanted the ENTIRE song done which is very unusual. Normally there is an idea for the chords, maybe "the verse will sound like this", then the melody and lyrics get written around the chords and it all comes together.
 
Re: Where did you hear that??

True, true, true. It really doens't change how much we like the music, or Morrissey, which we all OBVIOUSLY do. But, the FACT is that Marr wrote it, and Morrissey put the lyrics in. That's it. The reality, the music came first.

Mimi, you're not crazy, you're just debating with someone who "believes" that he's right, regardless.

PS Look up the number = )
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

You are all so naive children! Morrissey is a poet, who is able to create amazing lyrics, and he develops those with his "unique" angel voice. If he comes with: Everything is fine, I'm ok, let's kiss the sky... ... Well, then he could be Bach, but I still would hate him with all my heart. But being such a strong "persona" we know he is, if he starts to sing his adorable words in the church, like a mad... Hey, I will be there. Who cares if some guys put some chords and some noise behind? Morrissey is able to put an evil enchantment on the fans. The guitar players come and go... Morrissey is still here, strong like a Michelangelo's marble.
 
can we please drop the whole "oh aren't we non-commercial" snobbery?

If that was true, then Morrissey's success would not have been greater in 1992 than it was in 1985.

To be blunt, many people are also afraid to pick up an album by someone who might be gay, or even worse, might make others think that they themselves are gay for buying it.

He commits two sins:

1. He doesn't cross dress and go Pricilla, Queen of the Desert on us.
2. He also sings about feelings. He's not the happy and gay type like Ru Paul. Seems like people enjoy it when Ru Paul presents this image of being completely happy with what he is instead of a person who has doubts.

Basically, he's not a happy cross-dressing freak. Yes, it's akin to being a clown in the circus if you think about it. No matter what he really is, it all boils down to what people either imagine or think. It all has to deal with people not really accepting a form of sexuality that they can't easily claim, "I'm not like this guy at all! I'm OK!" and have a good laugh at what he is. Instead, we have this good looking guy who somewhat dresses normally and doesn't really present a firm stance on why he is sad or what he has decided for himself on what he would like to do, and why can't he be strong in the face of all of it.

NOt that it's bad to have doubts, but you know, sometimes you let them eat away at you and make you straddle the fence until you are in the nursing home and wondering where it all went.

And let me say that I've begun to realize how quickly the human body turns from this beautiful and fit work of art into a saggy bag of bones that sits in the nursing home waiting for the afternoon activities of arts n crafts.

Sorry, I just saw Space Cowboys and left the thing more depressed than not. It's not fun watching Tommy Lee Jones, who was running after Harrison Ford in the fugitive just a few short years ago referring to himself as a geriatric.

But in turn, a lot of his fans are jumping up on stage and proclaiming, "hell, I don't know, either!" and they bond and meet afterwards and do each other's fingernails while discussing "Sex in the City".

*sigh* I was going somewhere with this....
 
Re: Where did you hear that??

> True, true, true. It really doens't change how much we like the
> music, or Morrissey, which we all OBVIOUSLY do. But, the FACT is
> that Marr wrote it, and Morrissey put the lyrics in. That's it.
> The reality, the music came first.

EXACTLY - and who bloody cares??? That was my point...

> Mimi, you're not crazy, you're just debating with someone who
> "believes" that he's right, regardless.

Thanks you two above, I really started thinking I'd got it horribly wrong all these years.

> PS Look up the number = )

I will ;-) That song is just such a hammer!!!! I'm determined to use the first bit as a sample one day and put in my own lyrics.... it's unbelievable!
 
Re: Where did you hear that??

> I really don't know where you get your information from.....
> Well unless both Morrissey and Marr lied on several occasions in
> interviews or Alain Whyte when I spoke to him personally it goes
> the other way round - music first, then lyrics. I mean
> HELLLOOOOO - can I get some support here please, I thought
> everyone knew that??

he said it in an iterview on the bbc two or there years back.

you seem to be very confused. you said first that morrissey was only a lyricist, then a couple of posts latter you said he also created the voice melody (when you say voice melody, don't you mean the songs basic tune, and isn't that what every song lives and dies on) try and make up your mind!

your idea of making music seems to be very perverse. you start with the backing instrumentals and them add the tune and then the lyrics, but the problem with that is the melodie is at the heart of any song, it would be like trying to build a house, yet leaving the foundations to last.
 
Re: When will you give it up??

> you seem to be very confused. you said first that morrissey was
> only a lyricist, then a couple of posts latter you said he also
> created the voice melody (when you say voice melody, don't you
> mean the songs basic tune, and isn't that what every song lives
> and dies on) try and make up your mind!

Well I have, and I also wrote earlier on that the melody is a tool for placing the lyrics (again I add that this isn't anything I made up, it's publishing law). It gets kinda complex from this point, but that's what it is.... You see, Morrissey thinks of the melody, but the melody can only build up on what is there in the music already. Now before you bash out again: of course you can also write the other way round, you have a melody in your head and you put the chords to it and then later on the lyrics. But again, that's not the way Morrissey happens to write..... And then: there's a million ways of writing songs or infact writing anything, how can you be so arrogant to think you know exactly how it is meant to go??

> your idea of making music seems to be very perverse. you start
> with the backing instrumentals and them add the tune and then
> the lyrics, but the problem with that is the melodie is at the
> heart of any song, it would be like trying to build a house, yet
> leaving the foundations to last.

You should try and tame yourself. My idea of making music isn't perverse. I was simply trying to explain to you how Morrissey & Co. write the songs, without critisising, without classifying... Now which part of that do you still not understand??
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

> You are all so naive children!

And you are a bit arrogant dear.

Morrissey is a poet, who is able
> to create amazing lyrics, and he develops those with his
> "unique" angel voice. If he comes with: Everything is
> fine, I'm ok, let's kiss the sky... ... Well, then he could be
> Bach, but I still would hate him with all my heart. But being
> such a strong "persona" we know he is, if he starts to
> sing his adorable words in the church, like a mad... Hey, I will
> be there.

Not that I doubt that you would, but I doubt that many others would. Of course it's the words and the voice and HIM that touches our hearts, but then hey, he's also an entertainer, you can go to his shows and have the time of your life, buy rocking records, buy a t-shirt if you must or whatever..... And would there be dozens of websites dedicated to a lonely churchchoir boy, however lovely his words and voice are????? No.

Who cares if some guys put some chords and some noise
> behind? Morrissey is able to put an evil enchantment on the
> fans. The guitar players come and go...

Well no..... he's been with the "guitar players" namely Boz and Alain for a good ten years now, and as you know they also write the tunes. (OH YES THEY DO!!!!). Ten years, that's more than what he's been with "the band" - you know which one.....

Morrissey is still here,
> strong like a Michelangelo's marble.

Okay. I think it's pretty much up to the individual to what in Morrissey you are attracted. If you're solely touched by the words, okay, of course then you won't care much about who writes the songs or whether there is music at all. I'm more of a music person, it touches me just as much as the lyrics do and that's why I'm so concerned as to who writes it you know?? Like, my favourite songs are "We'll let you know" and "Now my heart is full" - but mainly I think because of the music, I'd surely enjoy them just as much if the words were different (and I'm not saying the words don't matter...just, you know - different). Then there's one I really don't like and that's "Half a person" although I can objectively hear that he lyrics are good and that they tell a very interesting story - but musically it's just so boring that it doesn't touch me you know.....

I wouldn't say I choose music over the lyrics, but for me they come at the same time. As I told you once before in an email I'm a musician myself so you can guess why the music is equally important for me. But of course it's the words with Morrissey - I mean otherwise I could listen to anyone else. He's not the kind of artist you get into because he has a great haircut (although of course he does =) ). We're all here for a reason, so let's shake hands and be jolly....

I hate fighting.
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

> And you are a bit arrogant dear.

No, I'm not, but some things are so obvious...you know

> Morrissey is a poet, who is able

> Not that I doubt that you would, but I doubt that many others
> would. Of course it's the words and the voice and HIM that
> touches our hearts, but then hey, he's also an entertainer, you
> can go to his shows and have the time of your life, buy rocking
> records, buy a t-shirt if you must or whatever..... And would
> there be dozens of websites dedicated to a lonely churchchoir
> boy, however lovely his words and voice are????? No.

Are you sure?????? Anyway, if "many others would" or not, that's up to them.

> Who cares if some guys put some chords and some noise

> Well no..... he's been with the "guitar players"
> namely Boz and Alain for a good ten years now, and as you know
> they also write the tunes. (OH YES THEY DO!!!!). Ten years,
> that's more than what he's been with "the band" - you
> know which one.....

Ok, Boz is great, and I would never say another thing, but the centre of attentions will ever be Morrissey, with ou without Boz...

> Morrissey is still here,

> Okay. I think it's pretty much up to the individual to what in
> Morrissey you are attracted. If you're solely touched by the
> words, okay, of course then you won't care much about who writes
> the songs or whether there is music at all. I'm more of a music
> person, it touches me just as much as the lyrics do and that's
> why I'm so concerned as to who writes it you know?? Like, my
> favourite songs are "We'll let you know" and "Now
> my heart is full" _ THAT'S A WONDERFUL SONG, MIMI...

- but mainly I think because of the
> music, I'd surely enjoy them just as much if the words were
> different (and I'm not saying the words don't matter...just, you
> know - different). Then there's one I really don't like and
> that's "Half a person" although I can objectively hear
> that he lyrics are good and that they tell a very interesting
> story - but musically it's just so boring that it doesn't touch
> me you know.....

THAT'S MY POINT, CAUSE I LEARNED TO LIKE "HALF A PERSON" FOR HIS WORDS, WICH ARE A TREASURE FOR ME...

> I wouldn't say I choose music over the lyrics, but for me they
> come at the same time. As I told you once before in an email I'm
> a musician myself so you can guess why the music is equally
> important for me.
- YES I KNOW THAT... hey, don't forget to invite me to take a look on your site, ok?

But of course it's the words with Morrissey -
> I mean otherwise I could listen to anyone else. He's not the
> kind of artist you get into because he has a great haircut
> (although of course he does =) ). We're all here for a reason,
> so let's shake hands and be jolly....

> I hate fighting.

MEE TO... PEACE AND LOVE, MIMI (SMILES)... did I say "peace and love"??? Ohhh, I must have some "hippie" thing inside
 
Re: But in all honesty...okay

> Ok, Boz is great, and I would never say another thing, but the
> centre of attentions will ever be Morrissey, with ou without
> Boz...

Oh I'd never deny that, it's true.... I'm just one of the fraction who insists that the lads should get their share of attention and recognition for what they do. Again that's because I write music myself and I know how terrible it is to not be admired for something you put your heartblood into, you know?
But that's more of a personal issue, whether or not people agree is up to them....

> - YES I KNOW THAT... hey, don't forget to invite me to take a
> look on your site, ok?

Oh it's in the making....some pictures are finished, some covers are being designed and the website is now being discussed. It'll take some more time but I'll let you know ;-)

> MEE TO... PEACE AND LOVE, MIMI (SMILES)... did I say "peace
> and love"??? Ohhh, I must have some "hippie"
> thing inside

:)
 
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