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Thread: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

  1. #1
    Theo van Gogh Martyrs Brigade
    Guest

    Default Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    > I have always sided with communist thinking.

    I'm not sure how you work out simultaneously admiring both John Paul II and the commies he so strongly opposed, but I'll leave that for you to work out on your own.

    > I abhor the rate of immigration in this country and yet I abhor the
    > capitalist culture that allows young African children to die for the sake
    > of the drug merchants defining the price of dexaflor or aids reducing
    > drugs.

    The reason drugs are expensive is because in order for those drugs to have been developed in the first place required the investment of billions of dollars for research into new drugs. You finance that investment through SALES.
    This should not be difficult for you to figure out. Morrissey doesn't GIVE his album away for free, does he? No, he enjoys the protection of intellectual property rights. But while he might very well write great songs even if he couldn't sell them (some artists can't help but create art), I don't see how you'd get drug companies to develop new life-saving drugs for us all if they had to give them away for free. I'm sure it FEELS good to say everything should be free, but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    It's all well and good for you to say we should be giving AIDS drugs away for free in an attempt for a quick fix. This quick fix will not work to solve the problems of Africa's health crises, though, because the AIDS epidemic in Africa is not happening in islolation. It's a symptom of an entire health infrastructure that's seriously lacking. These drugs need to be distrubuted properly, taken in proper dosage, and people have to have good nutrition to handle them. Beyond that, the AIDS epidemic in Africa is a symptom of the lack of economic growth in general in those countries. For example, the lack of equal political and economic rights for women makes them more likely to get AIDS. Moreover, Africa is dealing with all sorts of diseases such as Malaria, that kill millions. AIDS is not even the biggest health-threat killer in Africa. These many health problems require better overall health care, better sanitation, better nutrition, better information, and MORE NEW DRUGS that won't be developed without more research money pouring in.

    In short, Africa's problems with disease epidemics is a consequence of their not having enough capitalism and free trade, of having been marginilized from the global economy while countries such as China move in the oppsite direction and enjoy the opposite economic effect. Zillions in hand-out economic aid has pumped in to Africa and the people have not benefitted because of their regimes and economic systems. Economic growth has followed in those countries that move in the direction of economic liberalization.

    If you care about the poor at all, you'd be a capitalist. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than anything else in human history.

    Communism killed more people than anything in human history, even besting your pal Codreanu's fascism on that dubious achievement.

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  2. #2
    please
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    i'm sorry to say this theo but you are wrong wrong and wrong, well maybe just wrong (the part about the pope may well be true, but i'm no expert on this and not going to comment on it out of respect).

    > I'm not sure how you work out simultaneously admiring both John Paul II
    > and the commies he so strongly opposed, but I'll leave that for you to
    > work out on your own.

    > The reason drugs are expensive is because in order for those drugs to have
    > been developed in the first place required the investment of billions of
    > dollars for research into new drugs.
    This investment is more than paid back from the money drawn in from the West, therefoee this should be used to subsidise the South. No one is saying that these drugs companies should be charity's but they should be as bit more charitable. They should be able to get a calculator out and work out that some of these cures work out to be as expensive as a weeks/months wage. So if you don't die of aids you die of mal-nutrtion (you can see the choice isn't so great)

    > This should not be difficult for you to figure out. Morrissey doesn't GIVE
    > his album away for free, does he? o, he enjoys the protection of
    > intellectual property rights.
    Does Morrissey block the sale of other peoples albums?

    Thats what some big drugs companies do with the aids drugs, they stop other companies selling virtually the same drugs for much much much much cheaper.

    But while he might very well write great
    > songs even if he couldn't sell them (some artists can't help but create
    > art), I don't see how you'd get drug companies to develop new life-saving
    > drugs for us all if they had to give them away for free. I'm sure it FEELS
    > good to say everything should be free, but as they say, the road to hell
    > is paved with good intentions.

    > It's all well and good for you to say we should be giving AIDS drugs away
    > for free in an attempt for a quick fix. This quick fix will not work to
    > solve the problems of Africa's health crises
    Bit of a sweeping statement. Aids drugs could get people back into employment, they could look after there children and families. Employment would possible stop the spread of the sex trade, and therefore could reduce a key area where aids is spread.

    , though, because the AIDS
    > epidemic in Africa is not happening in islolation. It's a symptom of an
    > entire health infrastructure that's seriously lacking. These drugs need to
    > be distrubuted properly, taken in proper dosage, and people have to have
    > good nutrition to handle them.

    agreed

    Beyond that, the AIDS epidemic in Africa is
    > a symptom of the lack of economic growth in general in those countries.

    Thats not really a fair statement, how can you expect Africa to grow without support.

    > For example, the lack of equal political and economic rights for women
    > makes them more likely to get AIDS. Moreover, Africa is dealing with all
    > sorts of diseases such as Malaria, that kill millions. AIDS is not even
    > the biggest health-threat killer in Africa.

    Really? Really, i would love to see your statistics.

    These many health problems
    > require better overall health care, better sanitation, better nutrition,
    > better information, and MORE NEW DRUGS that won't be developed without
    > more research money pouring in.

    > In short, Africa's problems with disease epidemics is a consequence of
    > their not having enough capitalism and free trade,

    Wrong to blame it on not entering into a capatilist system. If they entered into full capitalism they would possible be in an even worse position. Look what happened to parts of the former soviet union when they entered into capitalism - Trade went down not up, along with GDP

    of having been
    > marginilized from the global economy while countries such as China move in
    > the oppsite direction and enjoy the opposite economic effect.

    Hmmmm China are'nt exactly capitalists now are they, whilst there global development has been repid, regionally in china it is not so impressive

    Zillions in
    > hand-out economic aid has pumped in to Africa and the people have not
    > benefitted because of their regimes and economic systems. Economic growth
    > has followed in those countries that move in the direction of economic
    > liberalization.

    Again really, please look at the ECE figures for growth in inequality between richestn and poorest since integration into neo-liberalism

    > If you care about the poor at all, you'd be a capitalist. Capitalism has
    > lifted more people out of poverty than anything else in human history.

    Capatilism has caused more inequality

    > Communism killed more people than anything in human history, even besting
    > your pal Codreanu's fascism on that dubious achievement.
    Just thought i had to correct a few points, nothing against you personnally.

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  3. #3
    please
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    ?????No reply

    > I'm not sure how you work out simultaneously admiring both John Paul II
    > and the commies he so strongly opposed, but I'll leave that for you to
    > work out on your own.

    > The reason drugs are expensive is because in order for those drugs to have
    > been developed in the first place required the investment of billions of
    > dollars for research into new drugs. You finance that investment through
    > SALES.
    > This should not be difficult for you to figure out. Morrissey doesn't GIVE
    > his album away for free, does he? No, he enjoys the protection of
    > intellectual property rights. But while he might very well write great
    > songs even if he couldn't sell them (some artists can't help but create
    > art), I don't see how you'd get drug companies to develop new life-saving
    > drugs for us all if they had to give them away for free. I'm sure it FEELS
    > good to say everything should be free, but as they say, the road to hell
    > is paved with good intentions.

    > It's all well and good for you to say we should be giving AIDS drugs away
    > for free in an attempt for a quick fix. This quick fix will not work to
    > solve the problems of Africa's health crises, though, because the AIDS
    > epidemic in Africa is not happening in islolation. It's a symptom of an
    > entire health infrastructure that's seriously lacking. These drugs need to
    > be distrubuted properly, taken in proper dosage, and people have to have
    > good nutrition to handle them. Beyond that, the AIDS epidemic in Africa is
    > a symptom of the lack of economic growth in general in those countries.
    > For example, the lack of equal political and economic rights for women
    > makes them more likely to get AIDS. Moreover, Africa is dealing with all
    > sorts of diseases such as Malaria, that kill millions. AIDS is not even
    > the biggest health-threat killer in Africa. These many health problems
    > require better overall health care, better sanitation, better nutrition,
    > better information, and MORE NEW DRUGS that won't be developed without
    > more research money pouring in.

    > In short, Africa's problems with disease epidemics is a consequence of
    > their not having enough capitalism and free trade, of having been
    > marginilized from the global economy while countries such as China move in
    > the oppsite direction and enjoy the opposite economic effect. Zillions in
    > hand-out economic aid has pumped in to Africa and the people have not
    > benefitted because of their regimes and economic systems. Economic growth
    > has followed in those countries that move in the direction of economic
    > liberalization.

    > If you care about the poor at all, you'd be a capitalist. Capitalism has
    > lifted more people out of poverty than anything else in human history.

    > Communism killed more people than anything in human history, even besting
    > your pal Codreanu's fascism on that dubious achievement.

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  4. #4
    Benton
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    His?

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  5. #5
    Rain Man
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    ---“ sorts of diseases such as Malaria, that kill millions. AIDS is not even the biggest health-threat killer in Africa.” ~SF

    ---“Really? Really, i would love to see your statistics. “ ~ Please

    Well have a look here then and stop trying to be smart as you’re not. : http://www.malaria.org/factpack.html

    Jesus people... it's all out there you know... Blimey, I do wonder sometimes.




    http://www.malaria.org/factpack.html

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  6. #6
    please
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    > ---“ sorts of diseases such as Malaria, that kill millions. AIDS is not
    > even the biggest health-threat killer in Africa.” ~SF

    > ---“Really? Really, i would love to see your statistics. “ ~ Please

    > Well have a look here then and stop trying to be smart as you’re not. :
    > http://www.malaria.org/factpack.html Jesus people... it's all out there
    > you know... Blimey, I do wonder sometimes.

    In Africa?

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  7. #7
    please
    Guest

    Default Re: Seriously Flawed must be ON drugs given his views on drugs

    > In Africa?

    And thats not detract from the main flaws of theo's argument. i.e. capatilism cures all the worlds ills

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