Meat is Murder...

C

Cinderella

Guest
...But skin is fashion?! Get rid of those leather car seats Morrissey.
 
> ...But skin is fashion?! Get rid of those leather car seats
> Morrissey.

you know it suddenly struck me...if you died, we would all have a smile on our face
 
> ...But skin is fashion?! Get rid of those leather car seats
> Morrissey.

Some people believe that leather (by product) is a more suitable alternative to plastic. I guess canvas would be a better substitute, but the cotton industry uses lots of pesticides and chemicals in the weaving process.

Perhaps we should let PETA make all products like Amway, but that would be a monopoly and then we'd need a filibusterer to divide PETA into seperate groups.

I got it! Lets use hemp! No that won't work all the field workers used in the harvesting will get too stoned to work.

I give up,
hnia
 
> Some people believe that leather (by product) is a more suitable
> alternative to plastic. I guess canvas would be a better
> substitute, but the cotton industry uses lots of pesticides and
> chemicals in the weaving process.

> Perhaps we should let PETA make all products like Amway, but
> that would be a monopoly and then we'd need a filibusterer to
> divide PETA into seperate groups.

> I got it! Lets use hemp! No that won't work all the field
> workers used in the harvesting will get too stoned to work.

> I give up,
> hnia

There is a product on the market which looks like and has very similar qualities to leather - most importantly breathability! and best of all it is made from recycling materials and the process isn't damaging to the environment (less so than the tanneries I believe.)

And oh the by product business - thats what we are lead to believe but if you check it out you will find that only 17%(approx) comes from the abatoire floor the rest is actually bred for its skin, mostly calf skin too because it is softer and more pliable etc. So leather is just shaved fur if you think about it. I mean you can understand someone trying to justify it for something necessary like foot ware and there being only (in their oppinion at least) inferior alternatives but car seats and coats, trousers, hand bags etc...seems like preferece rather than need.

I'm not attacking you personally here I want to be clear that this post is unmistakably serious, but the by-product argument doesn't really make sense...it's like saying it would be ok to eat meat if it were a by-product of the leather industry?!

Besides Meat, Dairy, Leather...they all perpetuate each other. I often hear people talking about rights but what is greater a persons right to satisfy their own taste buds or an animals right to it's own life? And besides didn't Geoff Dalhmer believe it was his right to do what he enjoyed - doesn't make it right though.

It isn't even that good for us to eat meat or the planet and considering it takes the same amount of land to feed 10 vegitarians as it does to feed just two meat eaters would GM crops really be such an issue or even exist if people gave up meat, or would rain forest destruction and soil erosion be so prolific if beef cattle ranching were to stop... Yeah meat eating REAL natural and good for us!

See to me cruelty and abuse is cruelty and abuse and it's THAT which doesn't make me smile. How many people here who slate me for messing about in cyberspace actually ascribe daily to real, horrific and abominable cruelty?
 
> ...But skin is fashion?! Get rid of those leather car seats
> Morrissey.

I agree wholeheartily, i don't eat meat, and i certianly don't
wear leather!

-Lazy Line Painter Jane




oh, it's the hardcore life..
 
Serious post

There are better ways of raising and feeding cattle then the methods used today. Free range is a better alternative than the current systems in place. In the end, I believe it's a personal decision that the wearer/eater lives with.

Seriously I think you have more respect for a cow than a Moz fan.

hnia
 
Re: Very serious post

> In the end, I believe it's a personal
> decision that the wearer/eater lives with.

I think you have the right to something only if it does not impinge on the rights of others. I personally feel that to say somebody has the right to kill, or allow, an animal to be reared and slaughtered with barbaric cruelty to satisfy their taste buds and or their choice of clothes is the same as saying it is an adults right to choose to abuse their children, just so long as they can live with themselves. What about people who feed meat to their children, where is the personal decision then. I am sure that if I developed a taste for dogs and decided to rear them and slaughter them as does the meat industry I would soon find myself in rather a lot of trouble with the RSPCA and everyone would tut tut at me then turn round and bite into their burger or take a sip of their milk shake. It's the hipocricy I cannot stand. For example a few years back in Britain there were a whole load of people campainging against the veal industry, the country en mass where appalled, but a dairy gets fired and everyone is appalled at that!! The slightest effort of thought should allow anyone to see that the dairy industry is what creates the veal industry. It's like Pro-life campaigners wearing fur.

> Seriously I think you have more respect for a cow than a Moz
> fan.

Do you believe just being human makes them a more valuable precious form of life? I may not respect certain individuals but I do not feel that gives me the right to kill them and eat them.
 
Re: Serious post YET incorrect.

Actually, i think that you will find that free range products are actually worse than the "current systems" in place....for example, a free range egg...the hens that are supposedly free to roam around, are actually still left in their teeny tiny cages with the cage door open, so if they manage to get out of their cages they land on hundreds of other hens, all desperate to get out...many more hens are killed from being squashed or suffocated than before, very few make it outside to the fresh air.
if you can't abstaine altogether, DO NOT EAT FREE RANGE!!!

> There are better ways of raising and feeding cattle then the
> methods used today. Free range is a better alternative than the
> current systems in place. In the end, I believe it's a personal
> decision that the wearer/eater lives with.

> Seriously I think you have more respect for a cow than a Moz
> fan.

> hnia
 
Re: Serious post

.......and i think some people do have more respect for cows than other Moz fans...some people are so rude.
 
Re: Very serious post

> I think you have the right to something only if it does not
> impinge on the rights of others. I personally feel that to say
> somebody has the right to kill, or allow, an animal to be reared
> and slaughtered with barbaric cruelty to satisfy their taste
> buds and or their choice of clothes is the same as saying it is
> an adults right to choose to abuse their children, just so long
> as they can live with themselves.

You make a good point. People often laugh at the idea of animal rights by saying, "what are animals gonna get to vote?" A 3 year old kid doesn't have the right to vote either, because such things mean nothing to a 3 year old, but certainly we recognize a kid that age has rights. Science already knows that adult chimps have the feeling and thought and ability to use language of about a 3 year old human, and share 99% of our genes, so why are chimps allowed to be abused in horrible ways? It gets tricky to know where the lines should be drawn, but clearly animals have rights that should be respected. The good news is this issue is starting to be taken seriously in law schools, where some of the best schools have begun courses on animal advocacy.

> I am sure that if I developed a taste for dogs and decided to rear
> them and slaughter them as does the meat industry I would soon
> find myself in rather a lot of trouble with the RSPCA and
> everyone would tut tut at me then turn round and bite into their
> burger or take a sip of their milk shake.

Yup. And what is one of the signs of someone with mental problems that will lead to violence against humans as well? Those who abuse and torture their dogs. So a culture which abuses and tortures animals in masses is a sick culture.

There's no doubt in my mind that if the media would start covering what is happening to animals, the majority would open their eyes and be outraged and some change would be immediate.
 
Re: Very serious post

> You make a good point. People often laugh at the idea of animal
> rights by saying, "what are animals gonna get to
> vote?" A 3 year old kid doesn't have the right to vote
> either, because such things mean nothing to a 3 year old, but
> certainly we recognize a kid that age has rights.

Do you know I'd not actually thought of it in those exact terms - Its pretty chilling really when you do.

> Yup. And what is one of the signs of someone with mental
> problems that will lead to violence against humans as well?
> Those who abuse and torture their dogs. So a culture which
> abuses and tortures animals in masses is a sick culture.

So true, nearly all serial killers have been found to have 'worked their way up' etc...and I'm not sure of the exact figure here but I believe it to be high, many abatoire workers are considered morally deficient in psychological testing. It's madness that Britain calls itself a nation of animal lovers yet up and down the country animals are being dropped, alive and fully consious albeit bleeding and battered, into boiling water where it can take up to six minutes to die, on a daily basis!

> There's no doubt in my mind that if the media would start
> covering what is happening to animals, the majority would open
> their eyes and be outraged and some change would be immediate.

media...GOVERNMENT!!
 
Re: Very serious post

> I think you have the right to something only if it does not
> impinge on the rights of others. I personally feel that to say
> somebody has the right to kill, or allow, an animal to be reared
> and slaughtered with barbaric cruelty to satisfy their taste
> buds and or their choice of clothes is the same as saying it is
> an adults right to choose to abuse their children, just so long
> as they can live with themselves. What about people who feed
> meat to their children, where is the personal decision then. I
> am sure that if I developed a taste for dogs and decided to rear
> them and slaughter them as does the meat industry I would soon
> find myself in rather a lot of trouble with the RSPCA and
> everyone would tut tut at me then turn round and bite into their
> burger or take a sip of their milk shake. It's the hipocricy I
> cannot stand. For example a few years back in Britain there were
> a whole load of people campainging against the veal industry,
> the country en mass where appalled, but a dairy gets fired and
> everyone is appalled at that!! The slightest effort of thought
> should allow anyone to see that the dairy industry is what
> creates the veal industry. It's like Pro-life campaigners
> wearing fur.

> Do you believe just being human makes them a more valuable
> precious form of life? I may not respect certain individuals but
> I do not feel that gives me the right to kill them and eat them.

I agree entirely with Cinderella, a succintly expressed valid argument. Not much left to say but this - meat is murder but leather is fashion so its okay. Its called making the whole use of the cow and it shows what hypocrites the leather clad vegetarians are. Eat meat and wear leather thats up to you but don't turn round and pretend you care about animals.
 
Re: Serious post

> .......and i think some people do have more respect for cows
> than other Moz fans...some people are so rude.

Most of you sound like you have never been on a farm. The idea that there is only black & white amazes me. Sure, there are factory farms, land where there used to be forest in the amazon, chickens that never get to breath clean air, fish that dangle at their critical populations levels, and hogs that pollute our fresh water supply.

However, not all meat comes from these sources. If i had enough land, i would have a chicken coop, I would care for them as I do any pet. When I buy free range, i can taste the difference, the fat content is lowered, and I feel that i'm supporting an important alternative.
Although i understand that some of these companies may not be the ideal, there a lots of companies to chose from.

Basically I eat meat once in a while, with some regret! I also buy tofu, tempeh, lentils, beans etc. I understand the strong convictions that you guys have chosen, but as I said before, it is a personal decision. I've listened to the debate for over ten years and I've come to realize that by cutting back my meat consumption, i've put money into the hands of alternative companies and I've taking money away from the meat industry. No! I haven't completely eliminated meat, but i've made a small effort. i do buy leather shoes, usually Birkenstocks, that last me two years. I usually buy leather sneakers, that also last me two years. And, i don't drink milk, unless I can't afford Soy milk. So, I PERSONALLY believe that there are way to manage your consumption of meat, dairy and by products and create a healthier atmosphere for yourself and environment. Over the course of a lifetime, these choices become relavent.

What I don't like is when someone tells me I should be eating meat three times a day, or buying every payless shoe on the shelf or someone that insists that vegans have a healthier lifestyle because they have eliminated meat and dairy. Many doctors have come to the surface to suggest that the Mediterrian diet is about the healthiest diet around. Fish is included in that diet, wine, cheese (goat's) and lentils, etc. So, I don't think it's fair for vegans to force the issue, likewise, i won't tell anyone else that they should be using feta cheese instead of cheddar.
 
Re: Serious post

I live in the countryside - have done for nearly ten years,There are about eight farms on my street alone (admitedly my street is several miles long but at least four of them are seeable from my house.)

Why try to defend yourself to veggies unless you have something to feel guilty about and need to justify?! Unfortunately people do have the ABILITY to choose to ascribe to abominable cruelty that doesn't mean it is right. "Just following orders"?!
 
Re: Serious post

> I live in the countryside - have done for nearly ten years,There
> are about eight farms on my street alone (admitedly my street is
> several miles long but at least four of them are seeable from my
> house.)

> Why try to defend yourself to veggies unless you have something
> to feel guilty about and need to justify?! Unfortunately people
> do have the ABILITY to choose to ascribe to abominable cruelty
> that doesn't mean it is right. "Just following
> orders"?!

I'm not defending myself, really, i'm not! hehee! I'm just trying to point out that perhaps there is middle ground between the two worlds. Sometimes important issues like abortion, politics, & environmental issues require a third party. I regret eating meat because I do care about the issues the meat-eating raises, but I also truly believe that moderate meat consumption is not only not bad for you, but it is also good for you. There's a lot of issues raised, but this isn't really the right forum, if you want to discuss it further, my email is always at the top.

hnia
 
Back
Top Bottom