How can Castro fans listen to Morrissey?

[Republican Party Reptile]

In a thread below, lsdl wrote:

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/index.cgi?read=218453

"You obviously don't understand the situation in Cuba. . .most people support and like Castro in Cuba. . .sure there are those who leave. . .but some of the blame Castro gets isn't even his fault....the majority of Cubans, say in New York City, support Castro and are left in politics.... The US feeds us anti-socialist and Castro propaganda and spins in the wrong direction."

There you have it, folks. There are Fidel Castro lovers on the Morrissey board.

Now, since I'm constantly asked how I can listen to Morrissey simply because my choice of lesser-evils in the presidential race is Bush rather than Kerry, why isn't someone asking this fool how he can listen to Morrissey when he supports FIDEL f***ING CASTRO, A TOTALITARIAN, OPRESSIVE, MURDEROUS DICTATOR????????

I no longer am surprised by the level of idiocy from the socialist left. I'd ask them why they don't choose to stand with all the liberal dissidents Castro has been throwing into prison, but I already know they do not care.

A cuban dissident wrote the below poem when Castro's thugs invaded his home to confiscate his papers. This poet currently resides in a prison in Cuba.

Search Order
by Raúl Rivero

What are these gentlemen looking for
in my house?

What is this officer doing
reading the sheet of paper
on which I've written
the words "ambition," "lightness," and "brittle"?

What hint of conspiracy
speaks to him from the photo without a dedication
of my father in a guayabera (black tie)
in the fields of the National Capitol?

How does he interpret my certificates of divorce?

Where will his techniques of harassment lead him
when he reads the ten-line poems
and discovers the war wounds
of my great-grandfather?

Eight policemen
are examining the texts and drawings of my daughters,
and are infiltrating themselves into my emotional networks
and want to know where little Andrea sleeps
and what does her asthma have to do
with my carpets.

They want the code of a message from Zucu
in the upper part
of a cryptic text (here a light triumphal smile
of the comrade):
"Castles with music box. I won't let the boy
hang out with the boogeyman. Jennie."

A specialist in aporia came,
a literary critic with the rank of interim corporal
who examined at the point of a gun
the hills of poetry books.

Eight policemen
in my house
with a search order,
a clean operation,
a full victory
for the vanguard of the proletariat
who confiscated my Consul typewriter,
one hundred forty-two blank pages
and a sad and personal heap of papers
—the most perishable of the perishable
from this summer.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

Aliens in outer-space can see the darkness of communism contrasted with the light shining from capitalism:

 

[lsdl]

I believe some socialist governments fall into a system of oppression in an attempt to fend off the more powerful capitalist countries (ex: USA). It's hard for Socialism or Communism to exist in a wolrd of capitalism, especially if that world tries everything possible to make it hard on them. Capitalism is the strongest; that's not to say it's the best though. Yes Castro has oppressive tendencies in his government. . .but the US has the same tendencies when its government goes around exploiting the world and also within the borders of USA. Guess what. . .you don't hear about it unless you search it out because corporate media and local news is not going to cover it. It's hard to believe we can't trust the local news or national news, i mean they don't hold back on what the Olsen sister's are up to, but you have to get past that.

But what about elections in Cuba? well they fear US will install their own candidates and the more transfers of power you have, all the easier for a weakness in the government to be exploited. that's their thinking. so there you have their reliance on dictatorship and close line of successors. and a lot of people still pledge alliance to Castro in Cuba because they support socialism. sorry but it's true. Look. . .US citizens are led to believe that anything that isn't capitalism is evil. So some cuban citizens try to overthrow the government of cuba. . what happens? they get locked up. well the same i expect happens in the US. Now their methods may be different and they may be more oppressive in free speech, but it's a government in a world surrounded by capitalism. It's a governmnet of paranoia. . .Basically i say lift sanctions, respect their independence until the people decide for change and you'll see Cuba will let up. In Castro's time in power, you did see a see-saw effect on the level of control on the people. And usually it corresponded directly with the actions of the USA and their attempts in bringing down anything not capitalism--and that would be Cuba.

 

[lsdl]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> Aliens in outer-space can see the darkness of communism contrasted with
> the light shining from capitalism:
yup. . .how can anyone take you seriously when you fall into this whole darkness/lightness crap between different governments/idealogies. You sound like someone who really can't think for themselves, just throwing around a bunch of slogans. I see strength and weaknesses in all forms of ideaologies and governments. i also action and reactions in as far as events in the world.

For example. . .now this may surprise you so take a deep breath. The terrorists did not attack us because we are the largest beacons of freedom and deomcracy. It's not like your nut Geaorge Bush says. . .wow i know. hard to believe. It's because of our foreign policy. some politicians, usually Democrats, sometimes Ewpublicans and almost all third parties will tell you our foreign policy is tied too closely with private interest (Oil, weapon contracters, etc). But as far as middle east is concerned, it's about oil. nothing more. We set up a climate of oppression in these areas just so we have an excuse to knock them down later. Lets do away with our need for oil. we already have the technology. oh yeah that's right. the oil industry lobbies hard to stop that. Guess who's in the White House right now. . .come on guess.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> yup. . .how can anyone take you seriously when you fall into this whole
> darkness/lightness crap between different governments/idealogies.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

You could write a million words and you couldn't refute the evidence in that photograph, contrasting communist North Korea with capitalist South Korea. Same people, same country, two different political/economic systems, two different worlds. One a modern, advancing, prosperous, civilized world, the other a starving hell of torture and darkness.

>I see strength and weaknesses in all forms of
> ideaologies and governments. i also action and reactions in as far as
> events in the world.

After hundreds of million of corpses, what exactly is the strength of communism?

I don't need you to "educate" me, thank you very much. When I wanna know what communism is like, all I have to do is ask family, friends, and neighbors who escaped it.

You should also check out what Robert McNamara says in the 2003 documentary film The Fog of War. He met with Fidel in 1992 to discuss what was going on on each end during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Castro blew McNamara's mind when he told McNamara that he was on the phone with Kruschev asking him to use the missiles and start a nuclear war. You should count your lucky stars that John F. Kennedy talked sense into Kurschev's mind and Castro's request was rejected, because not only would Cuba no longer exist, but we'd all either be dead or in a stone-age and those aliens in outer space would see no light at all. But hey, maybe it would've been a communist utopia of a stone-age.......

 

[lsdl]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

yeah Castro said that?. . .is there proof or am i just to take mcnamara's word in what is essentially a propaganda film? Perhaps Castro exagerated in anger?

look. . .there were forms of Communism taht went way past the ideology of what Communism was supposed to be. For instance Stalinism was total, brutal torture. He should have been shot. In a dictatorship there aren't any check's and balances and some nuts in power could unleash brutal horror. But when governments/countries are starved by other more powerful nations, you create an unstable environment and power vacuum and it's the power-craving nut jobs that fill that void--thus someone like Stalin. North Korea i agree with you is also f***ed up. but they don't stand for all communism, just like Stalin didn't represent what communism is. US propaganda machine would like you to believe it because it's all the easier for them.

My point is, the situation is not the same in Cuba. It just isn't. There are communist and socialist governments that aren't dictatorships. take Chavez for example. Castro would be somewhere in the middle but he's in a different situation being so close to USA. Castro did lead a popular revolution by the way. That means something you know. And i know Cubans who lived there and support him, with family still there and they say the majority do support castro. they feel the climate would be better if their government were allowed to freely exist instead of constantly being bullied--heck their may even be elections, open excahnge of goods, tourism. but that wouldn't be enough for USA now would it? no becasue the power that controls the US government (aka corporate power) wants to own it and/or exploit it. And the people i know who came to the USA came so for opportunity. Opportunity that doesn't exist in Cuba becasue of US policies, including sanctions.

 

[lsdl]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

not to mention the countless number of people who came to USA, now in Florida, and they blame Castro for various conditions or lack of goods. But it's USA's sanctions. Isn't taht the point of sanctions? to starve a nation so the people will blame their leadership when it's not the leadership's fault. So if Cuba was allowed to freely exist without threat from "I-want-it-all" capitalist nations, who knows what kind of climate Cuba would be right now, who know how much more Cuba's current government would have if certain people didn't leave blaming Cuba for US's oppression. Castro isn;'t going hungry, he gets the medicine. It's the people who die and go hungry. And US is the world leader in sanctions. they are the ultimate world bully. well other than Nazi Germany. I mean in different ways of course. I'm not comparing motives or tactics. they just both were bullies.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> yeah Castro said that?. . .is there proof or am i just to take mcnamara's
> word in what is essentially a propaganda film? Perhaps Castro exagerated
> in anger?

Yes, he did actually say that. And be careful what you knee-jerkingly refer to as a propaganda film, because The Fog of War is from left-of-center Errol Morris, and is basically an aging Robert McNamara trying to save his soul with a mea culpa with respect to the historical events he found himself in the middle of, from WW2 thru Vietnam. The point about Castro's statement was in the larger lesson McNamara said he has learned, which is that no human beings should be trusted with nukes, not even America. He was trying to explain that Kennedy, Krushev, and Castro were three rational people, and yet they came within an inch of nuking the world. He makes a powerful argument that made this Republican PArty Reptile start to re-think his positions, which I have yet to resolve.

> look. . .there were forms of Communism taht went way past the ideology of
> what Communism was supposed to be.

Communism = Death. Period.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

And btw, if that's how close we got to nuclear war with rational people, I hate to think what might happen now that the irrational of the world are seeking to arm themselves with such weaponry.

 

[lsdl]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> And btw, if that's how close we got to nuclear war with rational people, I
> hate to think what might happen now that the irrational of the world are
> seeking to arm themselves with such weaponry.
capitalism = exploitation

and i don't agree that it is as simple to say that communism = death. period. but lets not debate it because it won't achieve anything. We all have narrow views, some more so than others.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Do people xpose themselves to the pro-capitalsm arguments?

> capitalism = exploitation

> and i don't agree that it is as simple to say that communism = death.
> period. but lets not debate it because it won't achieve anything. We all
> have narrow views, some more so than others.

My reading of history tells me there is never enough death to satisfy a commie.
If the commie spares you from literally being killed, the commie will still kill your soul.

If you really believe capitalism is exploitation rather than what I believe (I believe it is the economic expression of democracy, that it goes hand-in-hand with democracy, and that it has raised the standard of living for hundreds of millions of people worldwide), would you at least be open to reading an argument from an idealistic author on the other side?

Go to Amazon and order "In Defense of Global Capitalism" by a young radical Swede named Johan Norberg. He's not so different than Morrissey fans. He grew up listening to Sisters of MErcy, Depeche Mode, stuff like that. Now he's in a classical liberal think-tank in Sweden called Timbro, which is much like the Cato Institute in the USA. It's a brilliant, very readable and entertaining book, and is chock full of facts and figures to back every argument up.

I know that people hear the anti-capitalism side in school, but I worry they never actually hear to PRO side. I know I never had a professor who assigned books such as Hayek's THE ROAD TO SERFDOM (probably the best book I've ever read). And the pro side is a pretty good one to be on, considering how democracy and prosperity have spread faster than ever before in human history since capitalism came along.

Whether you agree or not, again, I just wonder if people ever hear the pro side before they come to their conclusions. I really cannot relate to socialist thinking, and it just seems so stale and out of place in the new century. And by the way, I don't think the Republican Party knows what's up either. Certainly not under Bush, with his steel tarrifs and big government. The country that's most exciting right now happens to be, amazginly enough, Estonia...where classical liberalism is on the dramatic rise to the provable benefit of the people who live there.

 

[Republican Party Reptile]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> capitalism = exploitation

> and i don't agree that it is as simple to say that communism = death.
> period. but lets not debate it because it won't achieve anything. We all
> have narrow views, some more so than others.

And btw, a Marxist should be aware that KArl Marx believed in capitalism, and saw it as an essential stage for a country to advance and develop. Something to keep in mind which is often forgotten.....

 

[mozrebel]

> In a thread below, lsdl wrote:

> http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/index.cgi?read=218453 "You
> obviously don't understand the situation in Cuba. . .most people support
> and like Castro in Cuba. . .sure there are those who leave. . .but some of
> the blame Castro gets isn't even his fault....the majority of Cubans, say
> in New York City, support Castro and are left in politics.... The US feeds
> us anti-socialist and Castro propaganda and spins in the wrong
> direction."

> There you have it, folks. There are Fidel Castro lovers on the Morrissey
> board.

> Now, since I'm constantly asked how I can listen to Morrissey simply
> because my choice of lesser-evils in the presidential race is Bush rather
> than Kerry, why isn't someone asking this fool how he can listen to
> Morrissey when he supports FIDEL f***ING CASTRO, A TOTALITARIAN,
> OPRESSIVE, MURDEROUS DICTATOR????????

> I no longer am surprised by the level of idiocy from the socialist left.
> I'd ask them why they don't choose to stand with all the liberal
> dissidents Castro has been throwing into prison, but I already know they
> do not care.

> A cuban dissident wrote the below poem when Castro's thugs invaded his
> home to confiscate his papers. This poet currently resides in a prison in
> Cuba.

> Search Order
> by Raúl Rivero

> What are these gentlemen looking for
> in my house?

> What is this officer doing
> reading the sheet of paper
> on which I've written
> the words "ambition," "lightness," and
> "brittle"?

> What hint of conspiracy
> speaks to him from the photo without a dedication
> of my father in a guayabera (black tie)
> in the fields of the National Capitol?

> How does he interpret my certificates of divorce?

> Where will his techniques of harassment lead him
> when he reads the ten-line poems
> and discovers the war wounds
> of my great-grandfather?

> Eight policemen
> are examining the texts and drawings of my daughters,
> and are infiltrating themselves into my emotional networks
> and want to know where little Andrea sleeps
> and what does her asthma have to do
> with my carpets.

> They want the code of a message from Zucu
> in the upper part
> of a cryptic text (here a light triumphal smile
> of the comrade):
> "Castles with music box. I won't let the boy
> hang out with the boogeyman. Jennie."

> A specialist in aporia came,
> a literary critic with the rank of interim corporal
> who examined at the point of a gun
> the hills of poetry books.

> Eight policemen
> in my house
> with a search order,
> a clean operation,
> a full victory
> for the vanguard of the proletariat
> who confiscated my Consul typewriter,
> one hundred forty-two blank pages
> and a sad and personal heap of papers
> —the most perishable of the perishable
> from this summer.

Possibly becauase Cuba has the best healthcare system in th world, trains more docotors per head per year than any other country in theworld. Your the guy that posted the shite about Kerry shooting a goose aren't ya. I supoose Charlton heston and the majority of the NRA are republicans. What has Bush done to control the use of guns on the US?

 

[puddle]

Re: Communism is the only economical system that can be seen from outer space

> And btw, a Marxist should be aware that KArl Marx believed in capitalism,
> and saw it as an essential stage for a country to advance and develop.
> Something to keep in mind which is often forgotten.....

didn't he think capitalism will lead to fascism which will lead to a revolution which will lead to socialism/communism. in that case, we see the roots of fascism finally being sprouted after Bush's post 9-11 actions. bring on the next phase.