A fair take on the Cure

[Russ]

I used to think that was really lame how Morrissey would say that the Cure is crap. I guess I still do because it's a generalization but I see where he's coming from. Lately I've realized that I dislike a lot more than I like. The Cure are capable of creating exciting and classic songs but not nearly as often as Morrissey/Smiths, U2, Depeche Mode, etc.

A fully developed song just isn't there, all too often. Now they have made some excellent (and classic) pop songs and just as many more of the darker songs but they still haven't created a classic album. Even Disintegration has too many weak spots. Most Cure fans can't even see this because they are so blinded with what they do love and they have learned to compromise.

The early years are filled with sparse and boring junk. And albums like Faith and Pornography are suppose to have the values of deep, dark, and "gothic" and maybe somewhat so, but please; I'll take joy Division over that stuff any day. Head On the Door is very solid, it's very good, ...but who wants to come back to it? There's just something lacking. Kiss Me x3 is also good but aside from a few songs, it's also something not worth coming back to. To tell the truth, PERSONALLY, Kiss Me x3 makes me wanna barf. Disintegration was a very good effort but as I said, there are too many weak spots that could have used more development. Wish was a nice follow-up but doesn't past the test...a few underdeveloped songs and then there's Wendy Time and Unstuck, UGH! Wild Mood Swings was horrible every song makes me cringe except the 13th (which is actually excellent).

So with the new album Bloodflowers we get a ton of the underdeveloped songs - no surprise really. Or maybe the underdeveloped songs just aren't good enough in the first place to get any better. Some very nice pieces though. Especially the opening song.

Anyhow, I think the Cure are mostly a waste of time. All one needs (and a you do NEED some) in my opinion is: a few of their early singles, MANY of their later singles, a few of the album tracks from Disintegration, a few of the darker album tracks off Wish, and about the first half of the live album Paris is incredible - a few of the songs are actually some of their older stuff but they managed to give the songs fascinating life in concert (definately worth it! the whole album is actually a good live album. avoid it's sister album "Show" though), and then a few tracks off Bloodflowers. Also, Burn from the Crow soundtrack. All of this is just my opinion. There is some very good stuff to find (and very worth finding) but out of 11 albums, the good stuff could probably only take up two discs.

[sdavenport]

so you fancy yourself to be a music critic, eh? not a very good one, dear russ. your critique is little more than you citing subjective opinion under the flimsy pretense of being some sort of expert.

the cure made fascinating and eclectic records before the smiths existed, and after they ceased to exist. but the styles of the two bands were so completely different, your comparison makes almost no logical sense at all.

all it really seems to come down to is that you don't personally enjoy the style of the cure, which says nothing about the value of the cure's work, but a great deal more about you and your tastes.

robert smith made several acclaimed and influential albums, as many (or more) than morrissey has (with or without the smiths).

an interesting experiment...let's take this entire paragraph from your lengthy post, and tinker with it only slightly...by applying it to dear old morrissey:

"A fully developed song just isn't there, all too often. Now he has made some excellent (and classic) pop songs

and just as many more of the darker songs but he still hasn't created a classic album. Even Southpaw Grammar, Maladjusted, Vauxhall & I have

too many weak spots. Most Morrissey fans can't even see this because they are so blinded with what they do love and

they have learned to compromise."

it still rings incredibly true when applied to morrissey and to his fanatical followers, who refuse to acknowledge his abyssmal downhill slide with regard to lyrics, sleeve design and choice of musical co-writers...

[Russ]

I never said I was some high and mighty music critic. I stated that all of that was my personal opinion. And I know everything I said wasn't much. It would take pages and pages to write my full critique on everything the Cure has done.

Another thing...I'm not at all a Morrissey/Smiths fanatic. I don't even care to listen to half of the Smiths stuff anymore. Although, as I said, the Cure just can't write as much classic stuff as Morrissey/Smiths. The solo albums you listed have their weak spots but they are 5 times more solid than any Cure album (except maybe Southpaw). Even if you don't like a Morrissey song here and there at least it's usually not completely boring and doesn't suffer from lyrics that sound like they were written in 3 minutes.

So remember, this is just my opinion. Can a blinded cure fan such as yourself handle it? The whole point was that I understand where Morrissey is coming from when he calls the cure crap. I just think it's an unfair generalization.

[homeless chihuahua]

The Cure is by far my favourite eighties band along with The Smiths and I should objectively admit that it's had its ups (Seventeen Seconds, Disintegration, Wish, Head) and downs (Japanese Whispers, Wild Mood) but one thing we are to admit is that R Smith's one of the most
versatile artists ever. He has been able to produce compelling music that ranges from electronic danceable sounds to heartbreaking orchestral ballads and still manage to mantain a single line of style that no one has been able to copy. If there is one thing we can compare Smiths with the Cure is their frontmen, as they are both eccentric personas and possess complex, even obsessive personalities, but the music has no point of comparison really.
I am absolutely satisfied with Bloodflowers, i think it compresses the melancholy and strength that best describes cure since it began, not a masterpiece but no weak spots, what many of us thought would never be again.....

[Gary Cooper]

> I used to think that was really lame how Morrissey would say
> that the Cure is crap.

When did he ever say that? We've all heard Robert Smith mouth off about Morrissey, but I've never heard Morrissey say a single word about the Cure.

p.s. I like how Robert sometimes lies on the floor and pours honey in his mouth, or puts lipstick all over his face. Don't dig the tunes, though.

[LoafingOaf]

Hmm. I think Disintegration is damn near perfect. That album, though, marks the end of their great run. Wish had two good songs but the rest I can do without. I paid no attention to the next one. What was it - Wild Mood Swings? I bought Bloodflowers and my initial verdict was that it's a pathetic piece of garbage. However, slowly but surely a few of the songs are starting to improve with repeat listens. I had thought I'd throw the album away, but now I'm gonna hang on to it. It really is a subpar effort though. It sounds like they were just going through the motions. And I also like when a Cure album has at least one or two poppy singles.

I don't listen to the Cure much anymore. They seem to be a band I've outgrown with age. But every once in awhile I'll put a song like "Pictures of You" on and I'll remember what I loved about them, and then I'll play all their albums for a couple weeks and nothing else.And of course they always sound great in concert.

[LoafingOaf]

>Even if you don't like a Morrissey song
> here and there at least it's usually not completely boring and
> doesn't suffer from lyrics that sound like they were written in
> 3 minutes.

I guess I'm one of those fanatics because I have yet to hear a Morrissey song I dislike. And I really wish I could point to one I hate because it would make people respect me as being more "objective." But what if it is just a genuine fact that I like every song he's done? The best I can do is point to small moments of certain songs that I hate, or point out that certain songs weren't quite perfect.

You know that line, pizza is like sex: even when it's bad it's still pretty good? Even when Morrissey is at his worst he's still good!

[LoafingOaf]

> When did he ever say that? We've all heard Robert Smith mouth
> off about Morrissey, but I've never heard Morrissey say a single
> word about the Cure.

I wouldn't take anything either one has said too seriously. They were probably annoyed that they were always lumped in together. It's odd that so many Cure fans loved the Smiths and vice versa because they really are quite different in style. But most Smiths fans I know, including myself, have a rather extensive Cure collection.

[Roy, Tony, Jim, Frank, Dave & Billy]

Take a listen to Moz's B'side 'Get Off The Stage'..... the song is a 3 minute rant about how foolish Robert Smith is. Its kind of hard to find, though..... I used to be a HUGE Cure fan in the late 80's and early 90's, but looking back, I just don't think the Cure's music is remotely compelling, interesting, or even catchy anymore. I haven't listened to a Cure CD in years. Well, I tried to listen to Kiss Me a couple months ago, but got bored and took it out of the player and put The Muffs in instead.

> When did he ever say that? We've all heard Robert Smith mouth
> off about Morrissey, but I've never heard Morrissey say a single
> word about the Cure.

> p.s. I like how Robert sometimes lies on the floor and pours
> honey in his mouth, or puts lipstick all over his face. Don't
> dig the tunes, though.

[George]

> When did he ever say that? We've all heard Robert Smith mouth
> off about Morrissey, but I've never heard Morrissey say a single
> word about the Cure.

Follow the link.....

[George]

> Follow the link.....




what the hell? I entered the link dammit.

[carlos]

those are some pretty vicious quotes... thanks for the link!

-c

[sdavenport]

for the record, i haven't bought a cure album since 1989...and i have everything morrissey's ever done (much likely a hell of lot more than you'll ever own), so...

ah! and not only are you the expert music critic, but you are also highly mathematically inclined...

"they are 5 times more solid...
they were written in 3 minutes"

i would be interested in seeing the mathematical equations you used to derive your figures. and how did you quantify "solid"? you are very smart, indeed. forgive me for questioning you.

[sdavenport]

i could not disagree with you more. when it's bad, it's truly sad and embarrasing...because of all the wonderful things he has done before. the contrast is extreme...

> You know that line, pizza is like sex: even when it's bad it's
> still pretty good? Even when Morrissey is at his worst he's
> still good!

[sdavenport]

thank you, thank you, thank you...for making more sense than russ. while i haven't bought a record by the cure throughout the 90's (because i think they've been useless and uninteresting), it's true...their music is too incredibly different to simply compare the two.

around here, the arguments hang on two issues: (1) simply a matter of taste, and (2) people being defensive because fat bob and lady morrissey don't like each other.

it's rarely objective.

> The Cure is by far my favourite eighties band along with The
> Smiths and I should objectively admit that it's had its ups
> (Seventeen Seconds, Disintegration, Wish, Head) and downs
> (Japanese Whispers, Wild Mood) but one thing we are to admit is
> that R Smith's one of the most
> versatile artists ever. He has been able to produce compelling
> music that ranges from electronic danceable sounds to
> heartbreaking orchestral ballads and still manage to mantain a
> single line of style that no one has been able to copy. If there
> is one thing we can compare Smiths with the Cure is their
> frontmen, as they are both eccentric personas and possess
> complex, even obsessive personalities, but the music has no
> point of comparison really.
> I am absolutely satisfied with Bloodflowers, i think it
> compresses the melancholy and strength that best describes cure
> since it began, not a masterpiece but no weak spots, what many
> of us thought would never be again.....

[sdavenport]

i do recall morrissey talking about the cure somewhere...i don't recall it being kind, but it wasn't as nasty or silly as robert smith's comments on morrissey.

your vision of bob rolling about with lipstick and honey will stay with me forever...

> When did he ever say that? We've all heard Robert Smith mouth
> off about Morrissey, but I've never heard Morrissey say a single
> word about the Cure.

> p.s. I like how Robert sometimes lies on the floor and pours
> honey in his mouth, or puts lipstick all over his face. Don't
> dig the tunes, though.

[sdavenport]

i'm on your side completely, except for giving "bloodflowers" repeat listenings. once was enough for me.

[sdavenport]

it's not about robert smith. morrissey himself has stated it was inspired by the elderly antics of the rolling stones' living fossils.

> Take a listen to Moz's B'side 'Get Off The Stage'..... the song
> is a 3 minute rant about how foolish Robert Smith is. Its kind
> of hard to find, though..... I used to be a HUGE Cure fan in the
> late 80's and early 90's, but looking back, I just don't think
> the Cure's music is remotely compelling, interesting, or even
> catchy anymore. I haven't listened to a Cure CD in years. Well,
> I tried to listen to Kiss Me a couple months ago, but got bored
> and took it out of the player and put The Muffs in instead.