Serious Question on Animal Rights #1

[caroline]

of course not, but rather than bring an unwanted child into the world or raise one poorly you can prevent it by terminating the pregnancy.

[caroline]

no. i personally would not have an abortion after four months, but it's a personal choice that i feel no law can respect. who's to say what every individual woman can or can not do with their bodies?

[caroline]

fine, fine. it's a living thing, part of another's body, therefor under the control of that other.

i believe in birth control first and foremost, but even with the pill or a condom there's room for human error, in the which case i think no child should have to be brought into the world because of a skipped pill or broken condom.

[Jamie Quinn]

> if i were to go into labour at 10 weeks, would i be having a baby? no, i'd
> be having a fetus. it's not a baby until it can survive outside the womb.

sure, I don't think it would be a "baby", but I think that calling something which has (basic) human form, a brain, a nervous system etc. merely "strategically grouped cells" is inappropriate.

unless you regard _all_ life as merely "strategically grouped cells".

[caroline]

i have no problem with adoption whatsoever, but you have to admit that no every unplanned child gets adopted. that's why we have the foster system!

[Codreanu]

> exactly. should a 14, 15, 16 year old girl be having a child? i know for a
> FACT that i'm unfit to raise a child at my age. and there's the classic
> argument: "if you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to
> raise a child." there's a big difference there, especially from a
> teenager's point of view.

A 14, 15, 16 year old with child? Such has been the rule in traditional societies. However, with the breakdown of the extended family it is certainly something to be discouraged. I suggest the reinstitution of the chastity belt by way of solution.

Mary, the Mother of God, was probably around fifteen years of age at parturition. Thank God that she did not procure an abortion.

[puddle]

> A 14, 15, 16 year old with child? Such has been the rule in traditional
> societies. However, with the breakdown of the extended family it is
> certainly something to be discouraged. I suggest the reinstitution of the
> chastity belt by way of solution.

> Mary, the Mother of God, was probably around fifteen years of age at
> parturition. Thank God that she did not procure an abortion.

lol. . .why so many religious nuts like Morrissey? this is too much. I'm a huge animal rights activist and am a huge suppoeter of pro-choice. all my friends who are vegetarian o vegan also are prochoice. A fetus just isn't a baby. . period. women should have the right to choose. Telling everyone not to have sex until marriage or only for the purpose to have a child is stupid and not gonna happen. Why? not everyone subscribes to your beliefs. Marriage is stupid and sex isn't something sacred between a man, woman, and god. I agree late abortions should be illegal. . .but within the first couple of months it should be allowed.

and why does the original poster say it's hypocritical for aniumal rights activist to be pro-choice. what about anti-abortion people? are they all vegetarians? for animal rights? by far no. you're just another idiot right wing nut.

[puddle]

> There are though, a lot of people who _do_ carry through with their
> pregnancies and then raise their children badly. I think the liklihood of
> a child being abused would be no different if they were with their birth
> parents or with foster parents. Similarly, there are millions of children
> out there (myself included) who have been adopted and have had a 100%
> positive experience from it.

> And, despite these obstacles, many of these people overcome then and lead
> good lives. Are you telling them they should have been aborted?

they weren't aborted. . so there for they are people with identities. if they were aborted they wouldn't exist. that simple. one does not exist not only until on is formed, but also when one becomes self-aware (unless you are living and have some kind of brain damage--different story) and has some kind of identity. For the most part in the womb, the fetus is not a baby until late isn the pregnansy. woman should always have the right to choose.

[caroline]

well, i like to think i live in a fairy modern society where a 14, 15, or 16 year old girl must put the priorities of education and just plain growing up before childbearing. were i sold to some man three times my age (which, actually, doesn't sound all that bad) for the sole purpose of making babies, i suppose 16 would be a decent age to have a kid.

[caroline]

if your gripe is with my use of "strategically grouped cells", then i apologize. wrong choice of words.

[Morrissey the 23rd]

In case you missed it first time:

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/index.cgi?read=210762