If the world "hates" the USA, how come Team USA got the second biggest cheer in Athens?

[Republican Party Reptile]

Second biggest cheer of the opening ceremonies, after the Greek home team, was for Team USA. (Laughed at typical NBC when Bob Costas just had to opine that they were probably only cheering the people of America, as opposed to the government. *rolls eyes*)

Third and fourth biggest cheers were for Iraq and Afghanistan, liberated by the USA and its coalitions of allies. Afghanistan, where 90% of eligable voters have bravely registered for the Oct. 9 elections, sent their first female athletes to the Games. Un-liberated Saudi Arabia sent no females.

Was sad to hear an athlete from not-yet-liberated Iran has apparently quit the Games after drawing an Israeli opponant. I believe it was in wrestling?
I guess the freaky Iranian government would behead him or something if he lost to a Jew? Nice to see the Muslims get into the spirit of the Games.....

May Iran and Saudi Arabia be liberated soon.

God Bless America.

BRING HOME THE GOLD BABY!

[Johnny]

Your ears must be full of shit

[Republican Party Reptile]

I'm glad the USA defends Taiwan, a DEMOCRRACY, when the rest of the world would allow Taiwan to fall into commie hands.

How dare the Chinese force the Olympics into not allowing Taiwan to call itself Taiwan, and to not allow their anthem or flag. I find it offensive that the Olympics would go along with this. If the powers-that-be at the Olympics had any backbone they'd have threatened to ban China from the Games and strip them of hosting the next Games. Instead, the Olympics gave in to a ridiculous demand by an evil government. Let me take a wild guess: The Olympics is probably run by socialists.....

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3541180.stm

Also: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Car chive%5C200408%5CFOR20040813a.html

Taiwan Should Bid to Host Olympics, Churchman Says
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Pacific Rim Bureau Chief
August 13, 2004

Pacific Rim Bureau (CNSNews.com) - Stung by the latest diplomatic snub to his homeland, the head of Taiwan's largest church is calling for the island democracy to stand up to China's harassment by making a bid to host the 2016 Olympic Games.

"We need to take the initiative and show the world we are an independent country," said the Presbyterian Church of Taiwan general-secretary, the Rev. William J.K. Lo.

China was depriving Taiwan's 23 million people not only of the rights enjoyed by sovereign states, but also of the responsibilities a nation has to the international community, he said Friday.

As a participant in the Olympic Games for many years, Taiwan should have the same right as any other competing nation to apply to host it.

"If we propose holding the Olympics in 2016 under the name 'Taiwan,' then we demonstrate that we have confidence in ourselves," said Lo, whose call came after Taiwan accused the Communist government in Beijing of maneuvering once again to deny the island recognition in the international arena.

Taipei responded furiously this week when the organizers of the 2004 Olympics, which opens in Athens Saturday, removed Taiwanese advertisements from the city's airport and buses -- allegedly acting under pressure from Beijing.

The series of ads featured images of Taiwan and slogans urging on the athletes of "Chinese Taipei," the name under which Taiwan competes at China's insistence.

The Athens Olympic organizing committee (ATHOC) denied it acted under "pressure from any government," arguing that the ads -- which it had earlier approved -- violated regulations which stipulated that "only Olympic-related advertisements are allowed in the Athens area."

Two international human rights groups wrote this week to the International Olympic Committee (IOC), urging it to instruct the ATHOC to reverse the decision and to "reject all attempts by the Beijing government to abuse the Olympic movement for political purposes."

In his appeal for Taiwan to bid to host the 2016 Games, Lo was supporting a campaign by a prominent political commentator, Yang Sien-hong, who recently spoke to President Chen Shui-bian about the idea.

Yang, who is also a member of a committee advising the president on human rights, said from Taipei Friday that Chen had been intrigued by the 2016 proposal.

He had at first wondered whether it was realistic, but Yang said he pointed out that Tokyo hosted the Games in 1964, less than 20 years after a crippled Japan surrendered to U.S. forces at the end of World War II.

"Taiwan in 2004 is in a far better situation than Japan was in 1945," Yang said he told Chen.

He had also argued that with an economy stronger than that of Greece, Taiwan should be able to afford to host the Games.

Yang said a successful bid would have the effect of "unifying all peoples to create a Taiwanese national identity."

With regard to this year's Games, both Lo and Yang also called for an end to the use of the "Chinese Taipei" label, urging Taiwanese to instead refer to the island's competitors in Athens as "Team Taiwan."

"If we acknowledge ourselves to be Chinese Taipei, then we are saying we are stateless," Lo said. "Other people internationally will look down on us because we've already admitted that we're not a nation."

Lo said in a phone interview that Taiwan had "suffered a lot from isolation," citing delays in getting help from the U.N.'s World Health Organization when Taiwan was hit by an outbreak of the deadly SARS virus last year.

Lo called the removal of Taiwan's ads in Athens "unjust," and he said the international community seemed to have been "brainwashed" by China's "one-China propaganda."

China sees Taiwan as a rebellious province and objects to any attempt to express itself as a separate entity.

There were signs Friday that the Athens ad ban could backfire on China.

Aside from the promotional material taken down in Athens, Taiwan's Government Information Office (GIO) is also running ads in English-language media in Europe during the Olympics, including CNN and TIME magazine's Europe edition.

GIO head Lin Chia-lung announced that Taiwan had now decided to change the wording in some of the ads from "Chinese Taipei! Go! Go! Go!" to "Taiwan! Go! Go! Go!"

'Mixing sport and politics'

Any attempt by Taiwan to be considered as a candidate city for the 2016 Summer Games would likely by strongly contested by China, which invariably succeeds in mobilizing support in the international community against Taiwan.

In the sporting arena alone, Chinese pressure has on five occasions denied Taiwan the right to host international events -- the 1998 and 2002 Asian Games, the 2001 and 2007 World University Games and the 2009 East Asian Games.

On the other hand, Taiwan's second city of Kaohsiung has won the right to host the 2009 World Games, a relatively minor competition involving non-Olympic sports.

Under IOC procedures, the five host city candidates for the 2016 Olympics will be chosen in 2008, several months before Beijing hosts the Games that summer. The successful candidate will be chosen in the middle of the following year.

Back in 2001, Beijing won the 2008 hosting rights in the face of considerable opposition from human rights groups around the world.

Citing China's "abominable human rights record," a bipartisan coalition of U.S. lawmakers urged the IOC to deny Beijing's bid. The appeal prompted strong reaction from China, which said mixing politics and sport was not compatible with "Olympic ideals."

After Beijing subsequently won the bid, a new campaign body was established to monitor China's human rights situation in the run-up to the 2008 Games and press for an improvement.

A Prague-based organization, Olympic Watch, wrote Thursday to IOC President Jacques Rogge, complaining about the removal of Taiwan's ads in Athens.

Backed by another organization, the International Society for Human Rights, Olympic Watch decried what it called "a tragic and unacceptable abuse of the IOC for the political intentions of the Beijing government."

Lin, the head of Taiwan's GIO, said in response to emailed inquiries that China's status as a guest in Athens did not stop it from pushing its weight around "to achieve its crass political aims."

"I can only imagine what will happen when Beijing hosts the next summer games in 2008," Lin said. "Clearly, this incident does not bode well for China's ability to fulfill the role of a fair and impartial host."

[Colleen-Proud Mozzer Supporter & Christian Bale Toyboy Fantasy :)]

> Second biggest cheer of the opening ceremonies, after the Greek home team,
> was for Team USA. (Laughed at typical NBC when Bob Costas just had to
> opine that they were probably only cheering the people of America, as
> opposed to the government. *rolls eyes*)

> Third and fourth biggest cheers were for Iraq and Afghanistan, liberated
> by the USA and its coalitions of allies. Afghanistan, where 90% of
> eligable voters have bravely registered for the Oct. 9 elections, sent
> their first female athletes to the Games. Un-liberated Saudi Arabia sent
> no females.

> Was sad to hear an athlete from not-yet-liberated Iran has apparently quit
> the Games after drawing an Israeli opponant. I believe it was in
> wrestling?
> I guess the freaky Iranian government would behead him or something if he
> lost to a Jew? Nice to see the Muslims get into the spirit of the
> Games.....

> May Iran and Saudi Arabia be liberated soon.

> God Bless America.

> BRING HOME THE GOLD BABY!
I'm a die hard Democrat, but we do have the BEST athletes! A good point for this is because we have better workout equipment, better athletic gear, etc. The equipment is key, though. They go through totally grueling training ( not that they don't in any other countries ) I keep thinking of "Silence Of The Lambs" the first scene when Starling is running through the obstacle course. There's a tree that says - AGONY PAIN SWEAT LOVE IT. Yep, BRING HOME THE GOLD!!!! I love the Winter Olympics too, where they do that event in the little car going down the track- what's it called? They jump in and off they go, laying down - what a sport.

[Dagenham's Dave]

Don't you dare say God Bless America in my presence ever again!

> May Iran and Saudi Arabia be liberated soon.

May your country be attacked by Iran / Saudi Arabia soon for presuming that they NEED "liberating"

[Republican Party Reptile]

> I'm a die hard Democrat, but we do have the BEST athletes! A good point
> for this is because we have better workout equipment, better athletic
> gear, etc. The equipment is key, though. They go through totally grueling
> training ( not that they don't in any other countries ) I keep thinking of
> "Silence Of The Lambs" the first scene when Starling is running
> through the obstacle course. There's a tree that says - AGONY PAIN SWEAT
> LOVE IT. Yep, BRING HOME THE GOLD!!!! I love the Winter Olympics too,
> where they do that event in the little car going down the track- what's it
> called? They jump in and off they go, laying down - what a sport.

It depends what sport you're looking at. Also America has the largest team. China will likely soon dominate.
However, even a lot of the athletes on other teams train in America.

On the other hand, that Hamm fellow who is our top gymnast, was trained by Olympians from Russia and Belarus.

I'm more into watching particular sports that I like rather than just watching Americans win gold.

But I did go to the store at www.nbcolympics.com to order myself a cool red USA t-shirt and a Roots cap, just like they wore at the opening ceremonies.

[Dagenham's Dave]

will you stop quoting people you annoyingly nationalistic and misguided yank! YOU are a disgrace to the world by suggesting that anyone else is a disgrace merely because they approach the governing of a country in a different way.

banning China for something remarkable feeble would be a PR disaster. but of course you're american and you only want to ban China cos you don't want to be beaten by a communist country. Now what does that remind me of? OH yes! the german olympic games in 1936, when HITLER was humiliated cos his german team was beaten by a black american. so shut up you fascist witch

[Republican Party Reptile]

> Don't you dare say God Bless America in my presence ever again!

> May your country be attacked by Iran / Saudi Arabia soon for presuming
> that they NEED "liberating"

I don't presume anything, except that you personally aren't concerned enough about the deficit of democracy in the Middle East. The Iranian people keep VOTING AGAINST the hardline religious government, but unfortunately their elections mean nothing because of their freaky religious leaders.

In Saudi Arabia, females are, by law, treated as cattle. I didn't "presume" anything when I felt that South Africa's black population ought to be liberated from racial apartheid, so why would you stupidly suggest I'm making presumtions about gender apartheid in Saudi Arabia?

Furthermore, pointing out that both Iran and Saudi Arabia are enslaved populations in need of liberation does not mean I think the USA should invade them. Each situation in unique. In Iraq, we had ongoing, festering problems stemming from Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait. In Afghanistan, we were responding to a mass-muderous surprise attack on our own soil. If we have to attack Iran's government, it would likely just be an attack on theeir nuclear program.

All reports from Iran show that the population is ready to ignite a revolution on their own, and a democracy in Iraq will likely help to inspire liberals in both Saudi Arabia and Iran, and beyond.

[Dagenham's Dave]

and have you not thought that, as you were watching an AMERICAN TV programme, the microphone to which you were listening was placed next to the AMERICAN section of the crowd?!

yep! LET'S give people life and happiness by bombing they're country and do it the american way!

geeeeeess you people make me sick

[Republican Party Reptile]

> will you stop quoting people you annoyingly nationalistic and misguided
> yank! YOU are a disgrace to the world by suggesting that anyone else is a
> disgrace merely because they approach the governing of a country in a
> different way.

Excuse me? You don't recognize the independance of Taiwan from the Red Chinese?

> banning China for something remarkable feeble would be a PR disaster.

I said THREATEN to ban them so that they drop their bullshit demands about Taiwan.

You socialists just never understand how the world works. You have to stand up and show backbone when you are on the RIGHT side of an issue.

>but
> of course you're american and you only want to ban China cos you don't
> want to be beaten by a communist country. Now what does that remind me of?

Who's making presumptions now? I enjoyed watching the first gold medal winner, the Chinese who won the female 10m air rifle contest. She showed increble concentration. I hope the Chinese athletes one day enjoy democracy like Taiwan, and I'm happy lefties haven't banned guns from the Olympics...yet.

> OH yes! the german olympic games in 1936, when HITLER was humiliated cos
> his german team was beaten by a black american. so shut up you fascist
> witch

You're the fascist. As the article I pasted shows, human rights groups are on MY SIDE, and TAIWAN'S SIDE. Dummy.

If you don't understand the principle of not forcing an independant democratic country into not being able to use their flag, anthem, and name because a communist nation seeks to swallow it up and put pressure on the Olympics, then you are the one with problems. Asshole.

[Republican Party Reptile]

> and have you not thought that, as you were watching an AMERICAN TV
> programme, the microphone to which you were listening was placed next to
> the AMERICAN section of the crowd?!

> yep! LET'S give people life and happiness by bombing they're country
> and do it the american way!

> geeeeeess you people make me sick

I don't know why you're sitting here denying that Team USA got one of the biggest cheers of the ceremony. Sounds like you're angry about that.

[Dagenham's Dave]

Fortunately i am of the opinion that sitting there and doing bugger all is a better use of one's time than watching an opening ceremony on TV.

you haven't heard my arguments have you? 1) your ears do not measure sound scientifically and 2) the microphone would probably have been placed in the american camp and 3) americans generally have more money than nationals of other country and so there would have been more americans there than, say, chinese.

suck on that

> I don't know why you're sitting here denying that Team USA got one of the
> biggest cheers of the ceremony. Sounds like you're angry about that.

[Dagenham's Dave]

absolutely fucking stupid

[Colleen-Proud Mozzer Supporter & Christian Bale Toyboy Fantasy :)]

> It depends what sport you're looking at. Also America has the largest
> team. China will likely soon dominate.
> However, even a lot of the athletes on other teams train in America.

> On the other hand, that Hamm fellow who is our top gymnast, was trained by
> Olympians from Russia and Belarus.

> I'm more into watching particular sports that I like rather than just
> watching Americans win gold.

> But I did go to the store at www.nbcolympics.com to order myself a cool
> red USA t-shirt and a Roots cap, just like they wore at the opening
> ceremonies.
Cool, about your Roots cap and t-shirt Even IF China dominates, or tries to, The American teams are simply trained through a more rigorous way than the Chinese. I enjoy watching the sports too. LOL what do you think about the *sport*, Curling?

[Republican Party Reptile]

> absolutely fucking stupid

And if you were familiar with Hayek's "Road to Serfdom," you'd have a better understanding of the parallels between the anti-democratic movements of socialism and fascism.

You've now taken me to task for wishing Iran and Saudi Arabia would be liberated, and that Taiwan's independance would be respected by China.

Who's side are you on, exactly, stupid one?

[Republican Party Reptile]

> Cool, about your Roots cap and t-shirt Even IF China dominates, or
> tries to, The American teams are simply trained through a more rigorous
> way than the Chinese. I enjoy watching the sports too. LOL what do you
> think about the *sport*, Curling?

Curling looks like it would be great fun to PLAY, but it's not much fun to WATCH....

[Republican Party Reptile]

> You've now taken me to task for wishing Iran and Saudi Arabia would be
> liberated, and that Taiwan's independance would be respected by China.

That is, Taiwan's independance SHOULD be respected by China.

[Dagenham's Dave]

i didn't, however, unlike you, decide to call you a socialist in the next paragraph, just for good measure.

Just because this Hayek wanker thinks he's an academic, doesn't mean he's right. The basic principles of socialism and fascism are completely different, just because certain dictators went about imposing these principles on the people in a similar way doesn't make these two political movements "parallel".

Yes, I've "taken you to task" (which, I must say, is a very annoying phrase), because you have the cheek to make a judgement on someone else's country (when, i should imagine, you have never been to iran), when you take so personally any criticisms of your own country.

So...what makes me stupid? The fact that I keep my facts straight, or the fact that I don't feel the need to quote someone else every other sentence?

I am on my side, and my side only. To which person do you prostitute yourself to? Bill Clinton? George Bush? Hitler?

[Republican Party Reptile]

> i didn't, however, unlike you, decide to call you a socialist in the next
> paragraph, just for good measure.

> Just because this Hayek wanker thinks he's an academic, doesn't mean he's
> right. The basic principles of socialism and fascism are completely
> different, just because certain dictators went about imposing these
> principles on the people in a similar way doesn't make these two political
> movements "parallel".

Believe what you like, and be as ignorant as you wanna be. Have you actually READ "The Road to Serfdom" before dismissing it referring to its author as a "wanker"? It happens to be one of the most important books of the 20th century.

To a person who believes in liberal democracy, I stand firmly at the opposite side from the anti-democratic movements. Call them whatever Isms you like. Socialism, communism, fascism. They all lead down the same road to totalitarian hell.

> Yes, I've "taken you to task" (which, I must say, is a very
> annoying phrase), because you have the cheek to make a judgement on
> someone else's country (when, i should imagine, you have never been to
> iran), when you take so personally any criticisms of your own country.

If you read my posts in this thread more carefully you'd find that I, too, was criticising American policies, when I referred to evil governments in China and Saudi Arabia, and equated Saudi Arabian gender apartheid with South African racial apartheid. Clearly I would not support the relationship the American government has with the House of Saud, and I'm extremely conflicted over some of America's trade policies with China.

And I have educated myself about Iran, and so I know that the people of Iran are demanding a new government but are not (yet) allowed to elect one. There are plenty of Iranians who live in my city, but I don't plan on visiting Iran until it is liberated from their enslavers. Many of the Iranians in my city won't return there until then either.

I'm sorry if you find it wrong to judge a a regime that has its athlete drop out of Olympic cometetition just because he drew an Israeli opponant. How crazy of me to find that at odds with what the Olympics is supposed to be about.

> So...what makes me stupid? The fact that I keep my facts straight, or the
> fact that I don't feel the need to quote someone else every other
> sentence?

I haven't quoted anyone, so I don't know what you're talking about. I tacked a news story below one message for those who didn't know what I was talking about.

> I am on my side, and my side only. To which person do you prostitute
> yourself to? Bill Clinton? George Bush? Hitler?

You stupidly said I had no right to comment on the fact that women in Saudi Arabia are treated like cattle. That I was making "presumtions" that maybe there are people in Saudi Arabia who would like freedom. What a laugh. All people have a right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, and all governments are obligated to respect this.
Wherever human rights are violated, it is the business of all human beings everywhere. Amazing how the lefties in the West keep forgetting this. I ask again: Why was it proper for the world to push for apartheid to end in South Africa, but somehow it's different in Saudi Arabia?

[Dagenham's Dave]