The truth about the split of the Smiths

[Jerdacuttup man]

It is just a theory of course, but I think there was more going on between Morrissey and Marr than we know, at least from Morrissey's side. Johnny was only 18 and very naive so did not figure it out yet. This tension is what made The Smiths the great band they were. When Johnny got older and wiser he put up with it for a while because he was getting famous, but after at the end he got sick with the whole situation and left.
Think about how Morrissey always talks about their relation, and how special it was. I think old queen thought it be a bit too special, and the young boyish, lad like, rock 'n roll star get fed up with it and left.

 

[Paula]

> It is just a theory of course, but I think there was more going¿ on between Morrissey and Marr than we know,at least from¿ Morrissey's side. Johnny was only 18 and very naive so did not¿ figure it out yet.

What makes you think Johnny was a very naive 18 year old?
Nah, I don't really agree with that.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> When Johnny got older and wiser he put up¿ with it for a while because he was getting famous, but after at¿ the end he got sick with the whole situation and left.

Put up with "it?" What exactly do you mean? What "situation?"¿ Think about how Morrissey always talks about their relation, and¿ how special it was. I think old queen thought it be a bit too¿ special, and the young boyish, lad like, rock 'n roll star get¿ fed up with it and left.

This is ludicrous. Even if Morrissey DID have those kinds of feelings for Johnny (and let's face it: he did have very deep, complex feelings for him), Johnny was also very fond of Morrissey. Their relationship WAS very special, but to suggest that Johnny was a hapless young "victim" whose only purpose of being in the Smiths was to indulge Morrissey's sexual fantasies - only to finally "grow older" and realize this - is, well, ridiculous. And again, enough of this "queen" crap.

 

[Colin]

Johnny left the band because he was tired of having to operate within the confines of the Morrissey philosophy - a certain aesthetic sense, no drugs, no dancing, etc. Combine this with the burnout and budding alcoholism that accompanied "The Queen is Dead" and Morrissey's difficult personality and it's not hard to see why Johnny would leave.

As for more exotic breakup theories, I've always wondered about Moz' relationship with Angie Marr. Hmmm . . .

 

[MPC]

¿ As for more exotic breakup theories, I've always wondered about¿ Moz' relationship with Angie Marr. Hmmm . . .

It has long been rumoured that they had an affair. In fact, some have said Johnny found them together in bed.

 

[Fabricio]

i put much more credit in the theory that johnny left when he knew that, in fact, morrissey was fox mulder's sister that desappeared when mulder was seven years old.

we'll all know this in this year files-x, believe me!

(i know that it exists another theory that says that johnny left smiths when he discovered that moz was, in fact, alanis morissette. but it's hard to believe because, this way, who is mulder's sister? alanis? teresa salgueiro? natalie imbruglia? tiazinha?)¿ It is just a theory of course, but I think there was more going¿ on between Morrissey and Marr than we know, at least from¿ Morrissey's side. Johnny was only 18 and very naive so did not¿ figure it out yet. This tension is what made The Smiths the¿ great band they were. When Johnny got older and wiser he put up¿ with it for a while because he was getting famous, but after at¿ the end he got sick with the whole situation and left.¿ Think about how Morrissey always talks about their relation, and¿ how special it was. I think old queen thought it be a bit too¿ special, and the young boyish, lad like, rock 'n roll star get¿ fed up with it and left.

 

[Jonathan]

I was at home in Ireland on holidays in January but I had to wait till I got back to Hamburg to see a video a friend had made of that programme (on BBC was it?).

I dunno - knowing what we do about Morrissey's lyrics then no-one should be really surprised to hear that he might have been besotted with Johnny. What got my goat was Marr himself - I was squirming with discomfort listening to his coy mentions of "so and so", his nods and winks etc. Oh God, ugh - he was so desperately unappealing that I wondered if he'd always been such a slimebag, and who could ever have fallen for that? I can't quite remember the details of the trial over royalties (I'm in Germany and new to this web lark), but wasn't Marr a defendant too? Did anyone else think that he was making a lot of effort to side with Andy and Mike? "Not me mate, I'm innocent"? Woeful twat.

Christ, I always have had something against people who wear anoraks and sport hairstyles frighteningly similar to the Gallagher brothers'.

 

[Ian Edwards]

Re: Would if it was vice versa?

I would be horribly unsurprised if it was Morrissey who found johnny and Angie in bed one day, and was so shocked he didn't talk to them for a week. This is probably one of the situations Marr was sick of, in my opinion, Steven's uneasiness around him and his wife..
Hey this is kind of like an old-fashioned soap opera!¿ It has long been rumoured that they had an affair. In fact, some¿ have said Johnny found them together in bed.




Losing In Front Of Your Home Crowd

 

[DIETER DIXON]

All stories don't have happy endings...

I most certaintly think the truth lies more in the fact that Mozzy is a very protective and jealous person when it comes to loaning out his favorite guitarist. When Johnny wanted to explore more musical options Mozzy took it to heart, he felt like Johnny left him at the alter. I find it interesting to note that many other musicians take time away from their group to record things with others but I'm afraid that Mozzy that this would detract from what the Smiths would be working on. A side note is that Morrissey is a very difficult person to please and I honestly think Johnny grew tired of catering to Mozzy's moodiness. You might find it interesting that Mozzy strongly regreted Marr's marriage because he said it would effect the bands material. If you want to know if I think Moz was in love with Marr... I will say I think it started out as a special friendship but grew into more on Mozzy's part as time passed and Marr wasn't ready to deal with the way Mozzy felt. It's hard I know I've been in Marr's place before, it's a hard situation to be in because you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings....

 

[Spinster]

A picture says a thousand words

In the book The Smiths- The Visual Documentary, there is a picture of Morrissey, Marr, and Marr's wife Angie inside a tour bus. Moz is sitting in back of the couple, and has a dreamy look on his face. It's difficult to tell whether he's looking at Johnny or Angie, though.
I had never thought of these theories before, but seeing that picture now, they seem probable.

 

[vincent]

Re: All stories don't have happy endings...

> I most certaintly think the truth lies more in the fact that¿ Mozzy is a very protective and jealous person when it comes to¿ loaning out his favorite guitarist. When Johnny wanted to¿ explore more musical options Mozzy took it to heart, he felt¿ like Johnny left him at the alter. I find it interesting to note¿ that many other musicians take time away from their group to¿ record things with others but I'm afraid that Mozzy that this¿ would detract from what the Smiths would be working on. A side¿ note is that Morrissey is a very difficult person to please and¿ I honestly think Johnny grew tired of catering to Mozzy's¿ moodiness. You might find it interesting that Mozzy strongly¿ regreted Marr's marriage because he said it would effect the¿ bands material. If you want to know if I think Moz was in love¿ with Marr... I will say I think it started out as a special¿ friendship but grew into more on Mozzy's part as time passed and¿ Marr wasn't ready to deal with the way Mozzy felt. It's hard I¿ know I've been in Marr's place before, it's a hard situation to¿ be in because you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings....

unless any of us were privy to certain scenes, or if for that matter had they occurred at all remains a pervasive mystery. all i can tell you is that johnny is very attractive from a musical standpoint, when he was a smith i mean.......

 

[Dr. Quinn, Madwoman]

queeny queen...

Excellent! Of course Morrissey was in love with Johnny Marr...since 1987, this is only reason I ever believed was ultimately behind the breakup of The Smiths. Morrissey was an obsessed freak, and though I appreciate your acknowledgement of Morrissey's queenery, I don't feel that he was an "old queen" at the time...only in recent years has he become an old queen...and a bitter old queen, at that.

Anyway, poor Johnny...driven away by Morrissey's mad mad love...

 

[Paula]

Re: queeny queen...

> Excellent! Of course Morrissey was in love with Johnny¿ Marr...since 1987, this is only reason I ever believed was¿ ultimately behind the breakup of The Smiths. Morrissey was an¿ obsessed freak, and though I appreciate your acknowledgement of¿ Morrissey's queenery, I don't feel that he was an "old¿ queen" at the time...only in recent years has he become an¿ old queen...and a bitter old queen, at that.¿ Anyway, poor Johnny...driven away by Morrissey's mad mad love...

Yeah like how Moz wrote I Won't Share You about Johnny. That probably really freaked Johnny out!

 

[Suzanne]

Re: A picture says a thousand words

> In the book The Smiths- The Visual Documentary, there is a¿ picture of Morrissey, Marr, and Marr's wife Angie inside a tour¿ bus. Moz is sitting in back of the couple, and has a dreamy look¿ on his face. It's difficult to tell whether he's looking at¿ Johnny or Angie, though.

Dreamy? He was probably thinking about a collector's edition book of Oscar Wilde.

"oh, it would look good on my new living room shelf...."


If you have :60 to spare

 

[Jamie]

Honeymoon for Three

> I would be horribly unsurprised if it was Morrissey who found¿ johnny and Angie in bed one day, and was so shocked he didn't¿ talk to them for a week. This is probably one of the situations¿ Marr was sick of, in my opinion, Steven's uneasiness around him¿ and his wife..¿ Hey this is kind of like an old-fashioned soap opera!

You know, I always had to wonder what Angie REALLY thought of Morrissey. I mean, Rogan writes that they were the best of pals, but don't you really wonder? "Er, Johnny, your new friend? Um, terrific bloke, but doesn't he whinge a bit much?"

I have this absurd vision of Angie and Johnny in the wedding bed, with Morrissey standing outside the door, dancing spastically with a handful of gladioli, hearing aid and NHS specs in full effect, and barking out new lyrics to Johnny through the door!

Oy...

Cheers,

Jamie

 

[Spinster]

Re: queeny queen...

> Yeah like how Moz wrote I Won't Share You about Johnny. That¿ probably really freaked Johnny out!

You know, I love that song! I've always thought it was beautiful. It's one of my faves on Strangeways, also the song Paint a Vulgar Picture. If it was about Johnny though, I can understand how he feels. Being the subject of one's obsession is no picnic at all!!!!!!

 

[Paula]

Re: queeny queen...

> You know, I love that song! I've always thought it was¿ beautiful. It's one of my faves on Strangeways, also the song¿ Paint a Vulgar Picture.

I LOVE it too!! Definitely one of my favorite Smiths songs! You know I can see Moz getting obsessed with Johnny. I always found Johnny very sexy too!!¿If it was about Johnny though, I can understand how he feels.¿Being the subject of one's obsession is no picnic at all!!!!!!

God don't we know it spinster!!

HEEHEE!

 

[Colin]

Re: queeny queen...

The only gender-specific reference in "I Won't Share You" is female - "The note I wrote as she read, she said . . ." I think it's a general love or non-love song.

 

[Paula]

Re: queeny queen...

> The only gender-specific reference in "I Won't Share¿ You" is female - "The note I wrote as she read, she¿ said . . ." I think it's a general love or non-love song.

Yes but the person reading the note is not necessarily the person he is referring to as being the object of his affection/obsession. Just because she read the note doesn't mean she was the the one the note was written to. I always took it as the person reading the note was making the observation that he was being silly. "Has the Perrier gone straight to your head"

Also, remember how Morrissey didn't want Johnny to do outside session work and how it bothered him? Something that Johnny has stated in interviews. Well I think that was a clear reference as to his possesiveness towards Johnny. Same as he didn't like Johnny getting close to "outsiders" So many people working within that circle have said in interviews how Morrissey was threatened by anyone who struck up a relationship with Johnny. It's a fair assumption that they are not all lying.

In the book The guide to the music of The Smiths and Morrissey/Marr Andy Rourke says about that song - "I always got the impression that was obviously about Johnny" Obviously with Andy being in the band he knows many things we don't. He witnessed Morrissey's behavior with Marr first hand.

 

[Colin]

Re: queeny queen...

What I'm wondering is how is "I Keep Mine Hidden" about Johnny, as Grant Showbiz claims? I can't make out any clear reference to him in the song.