Romper Stomper // Immigration -- Where is Morrissey coming from?

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I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned the similarities between the music on "The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils" and the "Dead Nazi March" in the film Romper Stomper.

That can't be coincidental.

What do you guys think Romper Stomper means to Morrissey? (And btw I think it's a pretty good film.)

He got the song title "This Is Not Your Country" from the opening scene of the film. He referred to the film's main character "Hando" in a press release with the release of Maladjusted. The film came out around the time he was penning songs such as "National Front Disco." He even (this may be a stretch) seems to be quoting Hando when he referred in a recent interview to soldiers in Iraq as "cannon fodder" (Hando asks someone who enlisted in the Australian Navy: "Why do you want to be cannon fodder for the system?").

The song "This Is Not Your Country," of course, is not about skinheads telling Asian immigrants to get the f*** out of their country or get beaten. I think he just liked the line and wnated to use it in a different context. However, the film obviously has touched something inside Morrissey to have had such a strong influence (or is it just that he finds Crowe sexy?).

This THREAD is NOT about whether Morrissey is a racist or a bad person, as I think he clearly does not judge people based on something as stupid as skin color and I think he's a great person. However, this does not settle his views on immigration, which is what I was kind of wondering about after watching Romper Stomper again. He's clearly not down with the racist skinheads, but where is he coming from?

Morrissey does seem to sympathize with some of the underlying feelings, no?
Not the racism and violence, but the feelings that make some people turn to racism and violence?

Hando, in Romper Stomper, says he doesn't want him and his kind to go down like the "Abo." Morrissey, on Viva Hate advises people who don't belong in Great Britain to "shelve their western plans." On Your Arsenal he is sad about being the "last truly British people you will ever know," and how British culture "looks to Los Angeles for the language we use."

But on "National Front Disco" he is sad that a boy has gotten caught up in the National Front's views on race. (In Romper Stomper, Hando's violence and nazi views don't do him any good, they just make him do sick, evil, and stupid things and he's a complete f*** up every step of the way until it finally kills him.)

On "Asian Rut" on the album Kill Uncle, Morrissey tells the story of an Asian victim of thuggery and portrays it as an example of how uncivilized the world still remains.

What do you think Morrissey's views on immigration really are? Does he think the uncivilized behavior in "Asian Rut" is a consequence of there being too much immigration while the people born and raised there feel neglected and without much of a future? Or is it because he thinks it's sad that so many people are angry at immigrants? Or does he think the natural-born working classes and the immigrants are all just exploited victims of the real enemy? "Margaret on the Guillotine"? Again, I'm just trying to work out where he comes from on all this, without saying it's right or wrong. Maybe he doesn't even know and he's just expressing feelings that are as confused as everyone else's, and all he knows for sure is that he should live his own life as a civilized, loving person.

How come no interviewer has ever asked him straight up? All we get are questions about life in Los Angeles, as if anyone cares. But people do wonder about his views on immigration, since he has songs touching on the issue. It's weird that no one ever asks him. Is he just observing all the growing pains in this world of globalization and immigration? Or, does he think too much immigration is bad for society?

In my opinion, anger at immigration is very similar to anger at free trade and globalizing capitalism. In both cases I think it's very ignorant, as I think immigration is extremely beneficial to countries in the long term for many of the same reasons as global capitalism is, even though with immigration and global capitalism comes short term problems that people lash out at.

Also, what does Morrissey mean by the lyric: "It's the touchy march of time that binds you"??

Another thing that brought this to my mind was that I saw a story in the Guardian which states:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1126141,00.html
>>>>
Four out of 10 white people do not want an Asian or black Briton as their neighbour, according to a survey published this week.
The opinion poll found rocketing concern about immigration and asylum combined with ignorance about basic facts about the issue and growing resentment.

...

Bobby Duffy, research director at Mori, said: "We have overestimated the progress we have made in race and immigration issues. I'm surprised about such a high finding as people are usually reticent because they worry about being judged by the interviewer, so this finding is worrying."

The poll shows that the issue of race and immigration has risen up the list of people's concerns, and is now the third most important, ahead of crime, defence and the economy."
 
> I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned the similarities between the
> music on "The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils" and the
> "Dead Nazi March" in the film Romper Stomper.

> That can't be coincidental.

> What do you guys think Romper Stomper means to Morrissey? (And btw I think
> it's a pretty good film.)

> He got the song title "This Is Not Your Country" from the
> opening scene of the film. He referred to the film's main character
> "Hando" in a press release with the release of Maladjusted. The
> film came out around the time he was penning songs such as "National
> Front Disco." He even (this may be a stretch) seems to be quoting
> Hando when he referred in a recent interview to soldiers in Iraq as
> "cannon fodder" (Hando asks someone who enlisted in the
> Australian Navy: "Why do you want to be cannon fodder for the
> system?").

> The song "This Is Not Your Country," of course, is not about
> skinheads telling Asian immigrants to get the f*** out of their country or
> get beaten. I think he just liked the line and wnated to use it in a
> different context. However, the film obviously has touched something
> inside Morrissey to have had such a strong influence (or is it just that
> he finds Crowe sexy?).

> This THREAD is NOT about whether Morrissey is a racist or a bad person, as
> I think he clearly does not judge people based on something as stupid as
> skin color and I think he's a great person. However, this does not settle
> his views on immigration, which is what I was kind of wondering about
> after watching Romper Stomper again. He's clearly not down with the racist
> skinheads, but where is he coming from?

> Morrissey does seem to sympathize with some of the underlying feelings,
> no?
> Not the racism and violence, but the feelings that make some people turn
> to racism and violence?

> Hando, in Romper Stomper, says he doesn't want him and his kind to go down
> like the "Abo." Morrissey, on Viva Hate advises people who don't
> belong in Great Britain to "shelve their western plans." On Your
> Arsenal he is sad about being the "last truly British people you will
> ever know," and how British culture "looks to Los Angeles for
> the language we use."

> But on "National Front Disco" he is sad that a boy has gotten
> caught up in the National Front's views on race. (In Romper Stomper,
> Hando's violence and nazi views don't do him any good, they just make him
> do sick, evil, and stupid things and he's a complete f*** up every step of
> the way until it finally kills him.)

> On "Asian Rut" on the album Kill Uncle, Morrissey tells the
> story of an Asian victim of thuggery and portrays it as an example of how
> uncivilized the world still remains.

> What do you think Morrissey's views on immigration really are? Does he
> think the uncivilized behavior in "Asian Rut" is a consequence
> of there being too much immigration while the people born and raised there
> feel neglected and without much of a future? Or is it because he thinks
> it's sad that so many people are angry at immigrants? Or does he think the
> natural-born working classes and the immigrants are all just exploited
> victims of the real enemy? "Margaret on the Guillotine"? Again,
> I'm just trying to work out where he comes from on all this, without
> saying it's right or wrong. Maybe he doesn't even know and he's just
> expressing feelings that are as confused as everyone else's, and all he
> knows for sure is that he should live his own life as a civilized, loving
> person.

> How come no interviewer has ever asked him straight up? All we get are
> questions about life in Los Angeles, as if anyone cares. But people do
> wonder about his views on immigration, since he has songs touching on the
> issue. It's weird that no one ever asks him. Is he just observing all the
> growing pains in this world of globalization and immigration? Or, does he
> think too much immigration is bad for society?

> In my opinion, anger at immigration is very similar to anger at free trade
> and globalizing capitalism. In both cases I think it's very ignorant, as I
> think immigration is extremely beneficial to countries in the long term
> for many of the same reasons as global capitalism is, even though with
> immigration and global capitalism comes short term problems that people
> lash out at.

> Also, what does Morrissey mean by the lyric: "It's the touchy march
> of time that binds you"??

> Another thing that brought this to my mind was that I saw a story in the
> Guardian which states:

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1126141,00.html Four out
> of 10 white people do not want an Asian or black Briton as their
> neighbour, according to a survey published this week.
> The opinion poll found rocketing concern about immigration and asylum
> combined with ignorance about basic facts about the issue and growing
> resentment.

> ...

> Bobby Duffy, research director at Mori, said: "We have overestimated
> the progress we have made in race and immigration issues. I'm surprised
> about such a high finding as people are usually reticent because they
> worry about being judged by the interviewer, so this finding is
> worrying."

> The poll shows that the issue of race and immigration has risen up the
> list of people's concerns, and is now the third most important, ahead of
> crime, defence and the economy."
>

Well, I commend you on your learned thesis.
When faced with evidence like that, much as you'd like to say no, you can't say yes.

I remember Romper Stomper - wasn't it about vietnamese immigrantsin Australia?

Russel Crowe in an early role - hmmm.

I'd like to hear other's comments.

Sk.

P.S I'm an anrachist anti-racist
 
You've simply stated the issues surrounding Morrissey that have been brought up a thousand times before. There are lots of other points to make that might indicate his sympathy for racist movements (such as the infamous "Paki" comment made in his adolescence, as reported by Rogan at any rate), as well his staunch refusal to stand shoulder to shoulder with the bleeding heart Utopian crowd. In the end the ambiguity of Morrissey's entire identity makes these questions unanswerable.

I think it's just a question of choosing what you want to believe rather than being convinced, because there is ample evidence to suggest at least a few different readings. He leaves these questions open because he knows great artists are controversial and open to misinterpretation. The more conflict, the better. They feed off their exile, be it literal ('banished' from home) or metaphoric (alienation from all moral, artistic, political, and social establishments).

Morrissey leaves these questions unanswered because he thinks it deepens his legend. He's right. And if it sounds like calculated career-building, simply think of the case of Janet 'N' Justin. Controversy is one of the hardest tricks a pop star can pull off. If he succeeds again and again, it's probably because he's the genuine article.

Taking everything into account, I don't think Morrissey is a racist, as you say. Most sane fans of the man would agree.

(I don't think he's a "great person" however.)

If anything he has confusing feelings of nationalism, which can be at odds with the more "politically correct" pieties that make the rounds in the media. Given his apparent naivete in flirting with racist imagery, though, I'm not sure he's confronted his confusion to the extent that he can explore it artistically with any degree of sophistication. This is why I've never given as much thought to his songs on racial issues. They're crudely written and should have been put on Fan Club Christmas Flexi-Discs (full run of 75 copies), although "Bengali In Platforms" and "National Front Disco" would have been great songs with different lyrics.

I suspect there are two strongly-held beliefs that hopelessly complicate his thoughts on race, immigration, and globalization. One is that life was a lot better in Britain in the first two decades after World War II. I think we all have a basic idea of what that means. The other belief is in the unconditional equality of all people.

The tension between these two is much the same as the tension that gives his best songs their brilliance-- the necessary tension between love and hate, a concept rarely understood by "serious" artists let alone pop stars. (Which is why-- in honor of The Beatles' anniversary-- I suggest that "Viva Hate" is a much more philosophically sound pronouncement than "All You Need Is Love".)

"The touchy march of time" refers to the Bengali's lemon soles and "blinding" ankle star. Time has abandoned the fashions he has adopted to blend in, to become Western, making him even more of an outsider.
 
> I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned the similarities between the
> music on "The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils" and the
> "Dead Nazi March" in the film Romper Stomper.

> That can't be coincidental.

I'll have to watch the film again, but musical similarities are always pretty tendentious and arbitrary. Even if it were true, it's hard to see it as any sort of political statement, given "Teachers" has no ostensible race-related content.

> What do you guys think Romper Stomper means to Morrissey? (And btw I think
> it's a pretty good film.)

You're dead right there, as would Moz be if he thought so too. That of course does not make him, me or you a racist. It's one of the greatest Australian films of all time - it's a real analysis of how people come to be as bigoted as they are, and the manner in which their bigotry overwhelms and destroys them. It doesn't play to stereotypes - and that's why I think it probably holds appeal to Moz. At the same time as he was being asked/forced/demanded of that he clearly place himself clearly in one corner or another on the race question (and he refused to do so) this is a film that also allows for "shades of grey".

There was much debate when the film was released about whether portraying skinheads in this manner would glorify or encourage such behaviour - of course it did not. Anyone with half a brain could see that the overall narrative showed the wholesale pointlessness (and empty ideology) of the movement, but the fact that we are at times encouraged to empathise with the characters forces you to ask "how is it these people came to be so sad, angry and ultimately self-destructive?" For some people this is a sin, because it "humanises" skinhead culture, for me it's just intelligent analysis and social commentary.

> However, the film obviously has touched something
> inside Morrissey to have had such a strong influence (or is it just that
> he finds Crowe sexy?).

God help us all. That is just not physically possible. By the way, for some further hard-core nude Crowe gyrating arse action (and another of the greatest Oz flicks of all time) check out "Proof", which I've seen in video stores in the States.

> Morrissey does seem to sympathize with some of the underlying feelings,
> no?
> Not the racism and violence, but the feelings that make some people turn
> to racism and violence?

Exactly. Hope that's conveyed my general view. I'd respond to the rest, but I gotta go eat before I faint.
 
Re: Romper Stomper

> I'll have to watch the film again, but musical similarities are always
> pretty tendentious and arbitrary.

Hmm. Listen to the music over the closing credits of the film, then listen to "The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils," while bearing in mind that not long afterwards he claimed Romper Stomper was his favorite movie of all-time and it was influencing other songs of his. It's not identical, but they're similar and it's very unusual music.

>Even if it were true, it's hard to see
> it as any sort of political statement, given "Teachers" has no
> ostensible race-related content.

I don't think there is a political statement. But the "teacher" (or is it Morrissey himself?) in that song was sort of on a march to his death as well.

> You're dead right there, as would Moz be if he thought so too. That of
> course does not make him, me or you a racist. It's one of the greatest
> Australian films of all time - it's a real analysis of how people come to
> be as bigoted as they are, and the manner in which their bigotry
> overwhelms and destroys them. It doesn't play to stereotypes - and that's
> why I think it probably holds appeal to Moz. At the same time as he was
> being asked/forced/demanded of that he clearly place himself clearly in
> one corner or another on the race question (and he refused to do so) this
> is a film that also allows for "shades of grey".

Yeah, I agree. One of the reasons he probably likes it is, like him, the movie was being unfairly demonized and protested for the very same reasons.

But I was just wondering what people think the movie means to him beyond that.

> There was much debate when the film was released about whether portraying
> skinheads in this manner would glorify or encourage such behaviour - of
> course it did not.

Anything shown in a movie is potentially glorified to some in the audience. Drug addicts tend to like movies that portray addiction as horrifying. I know for a fact that some racist skinheads like movies that have skinheads in them, such as American History X, The Infiltrator. And you don't have to Google too long online to find that many racist skinheads *love* Romper Stomper and its soundtrack. I just tested that right now, and right away found a discussion board where someone was posting how its his favorite movie but he wishes Hando and Davey stayed friends at the end and Hando didn't die. That said, this doesn't condemn the movie. I mean, I'm sure there are racists who enjoy parts of Schindler's List! For most of the audience its taken the right way, and the people who taken it differently are probably f***ed up and well down that path to begin with.

>Anyone with half a brain could see that the overall
> narrative showed the wholesale pointlessness (and empty ideology) of the
> movement, but the fact that we are at times encouraged to empathise with
> the characters forces you to ask "how is it these people came to be
> so sad, angry and ultimately self-destructive?" For some people this
> is a sin, because it "humanises" skinhead culture, for me it's
> just intelligent analysis and social commentary.

Agreed.

> God help us all. That is just not physically possible. By the way, for
> some further hard-core nude Crowe gyrating arse action (and another of the
> greatest Oz flicks of all time) check out "Proof", which I've
> seen in video stores in the States.

LOL! You're posting about Crowe's gyrating arse action!

> Exactly. Hope that's conveyed my general view. I'd respond to the rest,
> but I gotta go eat before I faint.

Aight.
 
> Well, I commend you on your learned thesis.
> When faced with evidence like that, much as you'd like to say no, you
> can't say yes.

> I remember Romper Stomper - wasn't it about vietnamese immigrantsin
> Australia?

Yeah. Well, it's really about the skinheads pissed off at the Vietnamese. But the Vietnamese kick their sorry asses.

> P.S I'm an anrachist anti-racist

What does being an anarchist mean?
 
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