the representation of the disabled in Morrissey's work

[Have We Beaten Every Subject to Death?]

Morrissey has discussed handicapped persons in his work:

Frankly Mr. Shankly - Mentally Ill

Mute Witness - song of the same title

At Amber - Invalid Friend

Lucky Lisp - song of the same title

November Spawned - Twisted Child

Bigmouth Strikes Again - Hearing Aid

I Keep Mine Hidden - colors refer to anti-depressant pills or underwear

----

I'm getting verklempt, please talk amongst yourselves!!

In other words, please discuss.

[Moby Dick]

Interesting Post.

I'll take on Frankly Mr. Shankly.

"But sometimes I'd feel more fulfilled
Making Christmas cards with the mentally ill
I want to live and I want to Love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of."

Wooaaah. There is quite a bit going on here. I don't know where to even begin my discussion. As everyone here knows, while not mentally ill per se, Morrissey suffered from serious depression during his youth, such that he took anti-depressants and admitted so in an interview. Whether he still takes them or not, I don't know. Whether he takes something now or he does not, Morrissey suffers from depression, even if it is an a-typical form of depression. I don't need to take tea with the man to know this. Nobody, who was, normal, well adjusted, right in the head, could ever write such moving verse. For example whether or not Reel Around The Fountain is about Moz is beside the point, the fact is, he chose to write on that strangest of topics, where the sexual imagery of a child taking it slowly by an elder is ever so clear. Ditto for The Hand That Rocks The Cradle. For the macabre at heart, please see: Suffer Little Children. Futhermore, these kinds of lyrics were by no means limited to the first album. What I am trying to say, is that it would take the most sensitive of minds, the most beautiful of minds, the most artistic of minds, a mind that was a bit like a cracked egg, a bit off is all, to see these things, to focus on these things, to write, sing, perform, read, speak, live, as Steven Patrick Morrissey did and does. These kinds of thoughts don't come to say, Neil Tennant, because he is not nearly as talented for one, and he's not exactly off his rocker. Mozzer does have a few marbles loose in the old cabeza, and I'm sure that he would be the first to admit this. DEPRESSION has been a major theme of his life and his life's work. Thus, when he sings that verse from Frankly Mr. Shankly noted above, he could be simply saying exactly what the printed words on the page mean...and I find them funny. By contradistinction, he may be suggesting that he too belongs with the mentally ill to some extent, since the normal ways of holding down a shite dead end job like the rest of Manchester, and the rest of the world, don't work for him. It's not just that he does not want to do it, it is that, for a lifetime, he cannot do it. Had Morrissey not become a pop star, he would not be working in the bank, I assure you. He would be on the dole and living with mum and reading loads of books, in hospital, gaol (jail), or God forbid no longer with us as he has clearly contemplated suicide, see: Asleep. The verse from Shankly may also suggest Morrissey's faint/feignt fear, that someday, he too, will end up in an asylum, given that he is, or was, psychologically ill.

Genius borders on madness.

The true artist is a tortured soul.

Thank You.

p.s. Good morning Nonesoever.

[poison ivy]

I agree wholefully (is that a word? a cliche definitely) agree...

To think some posters here - the main site postings - had the gall to attack Adam Ant/ Stuart erractic behaviour with more stigmatizing wordplays on Nuts - the Battle of (T)Wits bravada .(see the Boz/ Diane Fossey project).... To the mainstream, Smith music embodies the depressed but not to terminally depressed me, it's cheery music.Why can't people see that? Their repertoire not all about self-loathing.Though, one must take vacations from SMiths to enjoy them evermore.Antagonize outsiders.

And I have spent time writing Valentines with the Mentally Ill.

Have any of you read Shankly's oeuvres? ALl i got was a bookmark with his outlandish statement that captures our interest "Some say football is a matter of life or death. But it's more serious than that."
Did Georgie Best say anything interesting?

I found the thread Diagnosing Morrissey very funny - Bipolar - Moz in a mania- don't think so.
In ways, Morrissey pokes fun of disabilities in a way the disabled do self-decrepatory...the way, homosexuals do. The mariginals.The Fattys, dispossessed mobsters. He is us.
So if comments sound racist, i don't think he means it malignantly.Point out the obvious.

November spawned me.

Something to think about: What if scenarios...Morrissey might have been a volunteer at the Manc commonwealth games- the biggest thing to come out since Man U millionaire's club.Returned to school inevitually....Pick up his mother's job.

> Interesting Post.

> I'll take on Frankly Mr. Shankly.

> "But sometimes I'd feel more fulfilled
> Making Christmas cards with the mentally ill
> I want to live and I want to Love
> I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of."

> Wooaaah. There is quite a bit going on here. I don't know where to even
> begin my discussion. As everyone here knows, while not mentally ill per
> se, Morrissey suffered from serious depression during his youth, such that
> he took anti-depressants and admitted so in an interview. Whether he still
> takes them or not, I don't know. Whether he takes something now or he does
> not, Morrissey suffers from depression, even if it is an a-typical form of
> depression. I don't need to take tea with the man to know this. Nobody,
> who was, normal, well adjusted, right in the head, could ever write such
> moving verse. For example whether or not Reel Around The Fountain is about
> Moz is beside the point, the fact is, he chose to write on that strangest
> of topics, where the sexual imagery of a child taking it slowly by an
> elder is ever so clear. Ditto for The Hand That Rocks The Cradle. For the
> macabre at heart, please see: Suffer Little Children. Futhermore, these
> kinds of lyrics were by no means limited to the first album. What I am
> trying to say, is that it would take the most sensitive of minds, the most
> beautiful of minds, the most artistic of minds, a mind that was a bit like
> a cracked egg, a bit off is all, to see these things, to focus on these
> things, to write, sing, perform, read, speak, live, as Steven Patrick
> Morrissey did and does. These kinds of thoughts don't come to say, Neil
> Tennant, because he is not nearly as talented for one, and he's not
> exactly off his rocker. Mozzer does have a few marbles loose in the old
> cabeza, and I'm sure that he would be the first to admit this. DEPRESSION
> has been a major theme of his life and his life's work. Thus, when he
> sings that verse from Frankly Mr. Shankly noted above, he could be simply
> saying exactly what the printed words on the page mean...and I find them
> funny. By contradistinction, he may be suggesting that he too belongs with
> the mentally ill to some extent, since the normal ways of holding down a
> shite dead end job like the rest of Manchester, and the rest of the world,
> don't work for him. It's not just that he does not want to do it, it is
> that, for a lifetime, he cannot do it. Had Morrissey not become a pop
> star, he would not be working in the bank, I assure you. He would be on
> the dole and living with mum and reading loads of books, in hospital, gaol
> (jail), or God forbid no longer with us as he has clearly contemplated
> suicide, see: Asleep. The verse from Shankly may also suggest Morrissey's
> faint/feignt fear, that someday, he too, will end up in an asylum, given
> that he is, or was, psychologically ill.

> Genius borders on madness.

> The true artist is a tortured soul.

> Thank You.

> p.s. Good morning Nonesoever.

[How soon is forever, Fatty?]

oh right

but he´s quite happy now, i gather, with his full heart and all

(just a random comment to say, really:
I read your post!
it´s such a waste, the unread poem thought to himself)

[Red Herring]

Dear Ivy:

Thanks for your insightful post. I too suffer from depression (Bi-Polar they say) but more on the depressive end. I take Lamictal (for depression) & Klonopin (for anxiety).

I am an American with both undergradute and doctoral degrees. I only say this as many people from the UK & Ireland think of all of us as obese, stupid, lacking in culture, and ignorant about world affairs. This is especially evident in the chat. I understood most of your most, 75% or so, but it was a very British post, nonetheless.

Is there anyway you could elaborate a bit on some of the references you made, as in defining them, without you know, assuming, all of us know them?

I am trying to follow this thread and have found each post really informative, but I can't appreciate your post as much as I would like to.

[Patrick McCann]

they played it at Uptight last night. How's THAT for a change? It was great. I burst out crying, but don't tell anybody.

[Bluenose]

Crying? 'Mute Witness' isn't THAT bad

Did you pogo?

> they played it at Uptight last night. How's THAT for a change? It was
> great. I burst out crying, but don't tell anybody.

[Saint Patrick of ________________?]

Um, er, ah, well, I live in The Colonies!

What is Uptight?

> they played it at Uptight last night. How's THAT for a change? It was
> great. I burst out crying, but don't tell anybody.

[Saint Patrick of ________________?]

Saturday 27th September

Uptight continues its monthly residency at the Tatty Bogle Club, Kingly Court (off Beak St) Soho at its usual time of 9.30pm - 3.30am. At time of writing, the membership policy is still in force (see MEMBERSHIP below) but it does look as if we've managed to secure the following Special Offers indefinitely:
- free entry 9.30 - 10.00pm (£4.00 afterwards) + a free drink for the first twenty people
- extended happy hour till 9.30 - 11.00pm
- five-drinks-for-the-price-of-four all night long

For any more information on Uptight go to our website:
http://www.uptight.org.uk

MEMBERSHIP: You will be asked by the door staff if you are a member of The Tatty Bogle Club. This is a small but necessary technicality involving licenses etc as the Tatty Bogle is officially a members-only club. Membership is FREE & if not a member already, simply e-mail us your name in advance to theclub@uptight.org.uk. If you're with people who aren't members, don't worry as you can sign them in as guests. Our sincere apologies for any inconvenience, but this system does seem to running a lot smoother now (& we recommend getting there early to avoid the queues as the club fills up fairly quickly). Finally, if there's ANY problems on the night just ask for Wayne or Anthony & we'll be able to sort it out.

And finally, for any newcomers to the club, a brief idea of what kind of stuff we play...
New Order Ramones Fall Strokes Stooges Galaxie 500 Clinic Modern Lovers Pixies Television Spacemen 3 Stereolab JAMC Brian Eno Sonic Youth Velvet Underground Clash White Stripes Beach Boys Patti Smith Big Star Magazine Flaming Lips Lee Hazlewood Lambchop Broadcast MBV Roxy Music Kraftwerk Denim Teenage Fanclub Ronettes Sex Pistols David Bowie Johnny Thunders etc etc etc...

[Patrick McCann]

> Crying? 'Mute Witness' isn't THAT bad

> Did you pogo?

Of course. It's the only dance I can do.

[Peter Peppermint]

Mute Witness was Moz's most overt song about the disabled. I feel he may have been making fun of the deaf person, because of her inability to testify to court. While some may say that he shows tremendous sympathy toward the Mute Witness, I don't think it is that simple.

What follows is in poor taste, at the very least, and sickening & discriminatory & cruel at the very worst. You can just hear Moz laughing.

Your poor witness
Crying so loudly on the floor
Oh, well, she's only trying to tell you
What it was that she saw
She is only trying to tell you
What it was that she saw

Now see her standing on the table
With her small arms flailing
And you feel such compassion
In your soul for
Your mute witness
Still testing the strength
Of our patience

Oh, well she's only trying to tell you
What it was that she saw
She is only trying to tell you
What it was that she saw

Now see her pointing to the frisbee
With a memory so fuzzy
And her silent words
Describing the sight of last night
4 A.M. Northside, Clapham Common
Oh, god, what was she doing there ?
Will she sketch the answer later ?
Well, I will ask her

"Now dry your tears, my dear"
Now see her mime in time so nicely
It would all have been so clear
If only she had never volunteered
"Your taxi is here, my dear"

La, la, la-la...

[poison ivy]

Hi,
sweetheart, I Have neither British roots nor blood..maybe on a rainy day, red cheeks on my pasty skin....

My knowledge of the English premier league isn't the best.

Frankly, Mr.Shankly dedicated to Bill Shankly- i keep calling him Frank.
Scottish coach of Liverpool FC (on the Mersey side - North not scottish) - soccer team who is legnedary for legendary years 50s-60s -Uefa, English League championships etc...Frankly,Mr Shankly is dedicated to him.

Georgie Best (Northern ireland) is legendary for his good looks and ability but didn't come to fruition when it counts...like in 1966, when England won World cup.Maybe because NI has another team so does Scotland, Wales at such int'l/european levels. He played for Manchester United. I don't think he went into politics like other football players. But poster boy for magazine LOADED.

I never heard of Lamictal or klonopin.

i can't recall anything i have mentioned....

The krays- mobster brothers quoted in Last int'l playboys- people here say otherwise..It's all about Johnny. odes to johnny. some were insightful...

Someone mentioned how morrissey, without music, would live his life like raisin in the sun..unsong hero.genius left untapped. SO i mentioned- he may perhaps picked up his mother's profession- libriarian since his love for literature...I think he quit high school or finished it...he was on the dole as rogan book mentions. sorry rogan book is all i have.
i didn't know morrissey cared for sports.i always thought he hated manchester and its teams...I thought he was reavcting against Bill Shankly's bursts of wit - commentator when he was growing up. part of the aural soundscape then.
i dunno if georgie best is as "intellectual or literary" as
Shankly..Manchester United begun its winning season in the sixties with the demise of Liverpool.Maybe Northern cities/Midlands? rivalry.
Read Simon Goddard's excellent article in Record Collector for tidbits for which songs inspired Smiths' song. Now, that's insightful.

In a better world, we could have been heros. Please don't divulge too much online since Trolls attack. You were one of few people actually communicated with me. I never thought i could get trolled on this site.I shouldn't think too highly on like-minded people. Utterly disappointing.I try not to have Smith fans as friends.Mine is a solitary devotion.
In a perfect world, I'd have a masters and Ph.d...Not really.: )
I have bad typing skills. never proof-read posts. Look like an illiterate person.But believe in most nonsensical crap i put up.
why am i here?
Oh Yes, i remembered. On the main site news "briefs" the one that Boz , morrissey sidekick, songwriting partner, guitarist,fatehr of 2?...he collaborated with Adam Ant (real name Stuart something), who recently was reported entering in a London bar with a gun, an unfortunate situation, on a Diane Fossey (Gorilla in the Mist fame) to save gorillas...anyway, people called Adam Ant (from Adam and the Antz, then, Adam Ant -pirate outfits and makeup get-ups)a "nutbar" because of his hospitalization etc...It's sad people would attack someone ill and who was doing something admirable.

Gary Glitter was accused of paedophilia or rape....

Today, they attack "grease-backs", fruit pickers..i suppose i don't ned to define American racism.My friend went to arizona and on the Arizona-mexico border map,there is a lazy,sleeping sun...It's institutionalized bigotry.

Morrissey lived in ANdalucia before moving to La..nobody pokes fun of Spaniards and their so-called 'apparent' influence on Moz..I know in ireland , spanish foreign exchange students are signalled out.
Even Bjork lived in the sierra Nevada, Spain ...i suppose that should have rubbed on Morrissey.Thankfully not.
Did i do a good job? I don't recall anything else..Fatty- You're the one for me.

I mentioned the Bi-polar thread but i think diagnosing Celebs is dangerous and stigmatizing for them . Thes e orgs. try to "out" closeted celebs without proper diagnosis.
I found the Asperger's Syndrome post interesting though (even Gary Numan may have it - Are friends electric?) ...I read about it in a Village Voice review about books about autism (Mark Haddon The curious thing about the dog at night-time and Belle and sebastian's member penned Nadla)-which mentioned morrissey : Shyness is nice..stopping all the things you'd like to. My first news item and post here.
I might get bored and move to another board if this continues.

> Dear Ivy:

> Thanks for your insightful post. I too suffer from depression (Bi-Polar
> they say) but more on the depressive end. I take Lamictal (for depression)
> & Klonopin (for anxiety).

> I am an American with both undergradute and doctoral degrees. I only say
> this as many people from the UK & Ireland think of all of us as obese,
> stupid, lacking in culture, and ignorant about world affairs. This is
> especially evident in the chat. I understood most of your most, 75% or so,
> but it was a very British post, nonetheless.

> Is there anyway you could elaborate a bit on some of the references you
> made, as in defining them, without you know, assuming, all of us know
> them?

> I am trying to follow this thread and have found each post really
> informative, but I can't appreciate your post as much as I would like to.

[poison ivy]

Manchester held the Commonwealth Games recently...spent loads of money for the show...Millionaires' club...These sportsstars are bankrupting soccer teams.
Beckham left for Spain - last country which shells out big $ for players.For soem reason, I think of the Gallagher brothers as football players. Inarticulate bullies instead of the lean agile ones.

i hail from the Commonwealth- i try to uphold the honOURable use of English.

> Dear Ivy:

> Thanks for your insightful post. I too suffer from depression (Bi-Polar
> they say) but more on the depressive end. I take Lamictal (for depression)
> & Klonopin (for anxiety).

> I am an American with both undergradute and doctoral degrees. I only say
> this as many people from the UK & Ireland think of all of us as obese,
> stupid, lacking in culture, and ignorant about world affairs. This is
> especially evident in the chat. I understood most of your most, 75% or so,
> but it was a very British post, nonetheless.

> Is there anyway you could elaborate a bit on some of the references you
> made, as in defining them, without you know, assuming, all of us know
> them?

> I am trying to follow this thread and have found each post really
> informative, but I can't appreciate your post as much as I would like to.

[Peter Peppermint]

FFS, I meant the MUTE!!

[Ruffian]

> Of course. It's the only dance I can do.

Bolan could have written about you.. 'I Pogoed my way out the womb. Is it strange to pogo so soon..'

Ruffian

[Patrick McCann]

> Bolan could have written about you.. 'I Pogoed my way out the womb. Is it
> strange to pogo so soon..'

> Ruffian

I don't think Bolan could have written something as complicated as that, Ruff.