oaf had a good idea

[suzanne]

> God is not perfect and so is Morrissey.

too bad. i'll live.

> What is the origin of the word "bungee" anyhow?
> The Indians again? They have all the cool words.

i really don't know. i just know its a sport i'll never do.

> I know, I know, you can talk about men's genitals for hours ...

> No, it's the one you admire from a distance ...
> far away enough not to see the flaws.

in that case, you'd probably have to stand on the other side of the planet...

> I was just made aware of the fact that the most popular pet in the US
> is dogs and that there are 50 million of those buggers in the US.
> Your chance of being beaten everyday is 50 to 1.
> Dogs cause 17 deaths in the US on average in a year.
> Now, do we really believe cats are our problem? I hate dogs,
> althoug on TV they may seem cute.

i like small dogs OK. they are easy to manage because when they go nuts you can handle it because they won't knock you over...and they usually don't smell.

> Harry Potter and The Morrissey Labyrinth ...
> Do you remember the film Bowie made with those puppets, I think
> Morrissey should do one too.

i didn't know that Bowie made a film with puppets.

> What does JK need all that money for? and she has at least 2 more books
> in line! Does she want to buy the queen? It's a terrible bargain.

who cares? its about someone who was on the Dole now being in control.

> People have to die for your screenplay, scary.
> Well, if sacrifices have to be made, I hope they'd
> at least be bad and useless people. God knows we have
> enough of those.
> Any nominees?

half of morrissey-solo...some of the NME staff....half of my co-workers....the crew on Good Day Live....Bill O'REilley....Jerry Bruckheimer...Joe Millionaire...Jay Leno....

[nonesoever]

> too bad. i'll live.

Imagine god as a city planner, in relation to the human body.
Who in his right mind puts the city's amusement park, next to the city's toxic waste landfill?

> i really don't know. i just know its a sport i'll never do.

I wouldn't call it a sport, nor would I call throwing bodies off
the docks, a sport.

> in that case, you'd probably have to stand on the other side of the
> planet...

My eyesight is not that good really.

> i like small dogs OK. they are easy to manage because when they go nuts
> you can handle it because they won't knock you over...and they usually
> don't smell.

I prefer no dogs at all. They should keep one at the Zoo and that's it.
That all dog thing is meant to give people something to do with
their lives, serving and living for the dog.
At least you can see who is fit to be a parent and who isn't.
Most are not.

> i didn't know that Bowie made a film with puppets.

That's what he did, while The Smiths recorded The Queen Is Dead,
It's called the labyrinth, http://us.imdb.com/Title?0091369
It's a great film for kids. I love the Muppets.

> who cares? its about someone who was on the Dole now being in control.

The Gallager brothers are another fine example.
Half of the UK is on the Dole, they make more than you do working.

> half of morrissey-solo...some of the NME staff....half of my
> co-workers....the crew on Good Day Live....Bill O'REilley....Jerry
> Bruckheimer...Joe Millionaire...Jay Leno....

What did Jay Leno ever done to you?
Think of the pain of watching Letterman,
I think you're making a big mistake.
The rest I can spare.

[suzanne]

> Imagine god as a city planner, in relation to the human body.
> Who in his right mind puts the city's amusement park, next to the city's
> toxic waste landfill?

you say that, but there are plenty of dumpster divers in this world...

> I wouldn't call it a sport, nor would I call throwing bodies off
> the docks, a sport.

i call it "doing the world a service" if they don't have a cord around their ankle.

> My eyesight is not that good really.

that's the point.

> I prefer no dogs at all. They should keep one at the Zoo and that's it.
> That all dog thing is meant to give people something to do with
> their lives, serving and living for the dog.
> At least you can see who is fit to be a parent and who isn't.
> Most are not.

i think pets are good for amusement, especially when you think of them as people.

> That's what he did, while The Smiths recorded The Queen Is Dead,
> It's called the labyrinth, http://us.imdb.com/Title?0091369 It's a great
> film for kids. I love the Muppets.

uh...er. i could never really get into the muppets. i like the movies OK, but i couldn;t get into the show.

> The Gallager brothers are another fine example.
> Half of the UK is on the Dole, they make more than you do working.

that's a good plan. they expect you to work in the US, but sometimes i think that even if i won only $1,000 in the lottery, i'd still retire and live in a cardboard house just because i'm tired of it all.

> What did Jay Leno ever done to you?

make boring ass late night talk shows for 10 years straight.

don't get me wrong. he used to be funnier way back when he was a guest host for Carson, but the network knew what a sucker he was for being a "yes man" and they knew they had a good purveyor of bland entertainment.

> Think of the pain of watching Letterman,

Letterman is bad, but i have fonder memories of him throwing watermelons off of buildings and running over cans of food with steamrollers back in the good old days of NBC than i do anything with Leno.

who knows? i suspect that Letterman is on his way to retirement because he's had health problems and they keep bringing out guest hosts. With Leno, there are several good years left on him.

Even so, there is still something about Leno that makes me want to rise up out of my chair and smack him. i think 1/2 of the jokes they pull off are very half-assed, and the worst offenders are always the "we have footage of it...can we roll this clip" and they usually show some lame joke that someone on cable access could have done 10X better.

> I think you're making a big mistake.

i don't watch either of them. I seem to have found the PBS station.

> The rest I can spare.

[nonesoever]

> you say that, but there are plenty of dumpster divers in this world...

Which never ceases to amaze me.
Actually it doesn't, I can't relate to most of the world's population.

> i call it "doing the world a service" if they don't have a cord
> around their ankle.

And if they have a cord around their neck?

> that's the point.

> i think pets are good for amusement, especially when you think of them as
> people.

I wouldn't like to spend time with a cat if it were human, they are such
snobs. But on the other hand, they really resemble humans, as they always take advantage of you.
Dogs are just not intelligent, so they aren't that fun to be with and
are complete Yes Men.

> uh...er. i could never really get into the muppets. i like the movies OK,
> but i couldn;t get into the show.

I think it's the other way round, the movies are weaker than the TV show.
Maybe because they are more infant oriented.

> that's a good plan. they expect you to work in the US, but sometimes i
> think that even if i won only $1,000 in the lottery, i'd still retire and
> live in a cardboard house just because i'm tired of it all.

You're just 1,000$ away from your first cardboard house?
We know, you can do it.

The truth about unemployment is that people, all over the world, are becoming redundant and that's the way the world is heading.
A change in attitude is in order, the French understood that a long time
ago. They work only 4 days a week. The unemployment rate is 10%.
People should understand there is more to life than work and that people
weren't made to work all their lives.
and I hate people who say they love working!

> make boring ass late night talk shows for 10 years straight.

He's only trying to be loved and be as rich as he can be.
The American dream.

> don't get me wrong. he used to be funnier way back when he was a guest
> host for Carson, but the network knew what a sucker he was for being a
> "yes man" and they knew they had a good purveyor of bland
> entertainment.

So you liked him when he was the underdog, I see.

> Letterman is bad, but i have fonder memories of him throwing watermelons
> off of buildings and running over cans of food with steamrollers back in
> the good old days of NBC than i do anything with Leno.

The problem is, he's still throwing things off rooftops.

> who knows? i suspect that Letterman is on his way to retirement because
> he's had health problems and they keep bringing out guest hosts. With
> Leno, there are several good years left on him.

He got his finger stitched on air. Talk about bad and bland entertainment.

> Even so, there is still something about Leno that makes me want to rise up
> out of my chair and smack him. i think 1/2 of the jokes they pull off are
> very half-assed, and the worst offenders are always the "we have
> footage of it...can we roll this clip" and they usually show some
> lame joke that someone on cable access could have done 10X better.

It's very hard to come up with good material day after day.
I think they should give Gary Shandling his old late night show back.
He really showed them with The Larry Sanders Show.
It looks like Letterman is trying to badly imitate it, making a parody
of himself.

> i don't watch either of them. I seem to have found the PBS station.

What do they have on PBS?

[suzanne]

> Which never ceases to amaze me.
> Actually it doesn't, I can't relate to most of the world's population.

"there be gold in them there hills...."

> And if they have a cord around their neck?

added bonus.

> I wouldn't like to spend time with a cat if it were human, they are such
> snobs. But on the other hand, they really resemble humans, as they always
> take advantage of you.

i like 'em. they can entertain themselves most of the time. they can go in a litter box and their ability to kill you is much much less than a dog.

> Dogs are just not intelligent, so they aren't that fun to be with and
> are complete Yes Men.

poodles are very smart. my grandma had one, and if the dog needed to go outside and do its business, she could say something that sounded like "out" but it sounded more like "ow-ow-owt!"

> I think it's the other way round, the movies are weaker than the TV show.
> Maybe because they are more infant oriented.

what? no way. the plot of the muppet movies are much deeper than that. the shows themselves had John Denver singing around a campfire.

> You're just 1,000$ away from your first cardboard house?
> We know, you can do it.

i just want to retire after i win the lottery, no matter how much i win.

> The truth about unemployment is that people, all over the world, are
> becoming redundant and that's the way the world is heading.
> A change in attitude is in order, the French understood that a long time
> ago. They work only 4 days a week. The unemployment rate is 10%.
> People should understand there is more to life than work and that people
> weren't made to work all their lives.
> and I hate people who say they love working!

i don't love working, but i appreciate getting out of the house. i'd probably never talk to anyone ever again simply because i'd never be around anyone.

still, i wouldn't mind a 4 day work week.

> He's only trying to be loved and be as rich as he can be.
> The American dream.

> So you liked him when he was the underdog, I see.

no, it wasn't that. i simply think his material was better back in the old days.

> The problem is, he's still throwing things off rooftops.

not as much as he used to. basically half of his show is devoted to sending some idiot into a bedding store and having them lay on mattresses to give a rating of each one.

> He got his finger stitched on air. Talk about bad and bland entertainment.

> It's very hard to come up with good material day after day.
> I think they should give Gary Shandling his old late night show back.
> He really showed them with The Larry Sanders Show.
> It looks like Letterman is trying to badly imitate it, making a parody
> of himself.

uh...i've seen an episode or two of Larry Sanders and i thought that it was boring.

> What do they have on PBS?

documentaries like NOVA or some other random things like discussion of world events or documentaries on clint eastwood.

i've grown old and boring very fast, but oh well. you just don't really learn anything new and exciting watching regular TV.

[nonesoever]

> i like 'em. they can entertain themselves most of the time. they can go in
> a litter box and their ability to kill you is much much less than a dog.

Yeah, I like cats better too.

> poodles are very smart. my grandma had one, and if the dog needed to go
> outside and do its business, she could say something that sounded like
> "out" but it sounded more like "ow-ow-owt!"

I wouldn't qualify anything which blindly obeys orders, smart.

> what? no way. the plot of the muppet movies are much deeper than that. the
> shows themselves had John Denver singing around a campfire.

The TV shows didn't have a plot, the plot is that they have a show to run
and they do sketches in that show.

> i just want to retire after i win the lottery, no matter how much i win.

If you'd finally win the lottery at the age of 60, it won't be that exciting.

> i don't love working, but i appreciate getting out of the house. i'd
> probably never talk to anyone ever again simply because i'd never be
> around anyone.

If the only reason you're talking to someone, is because you're there,
that does not constitute as a very good relationship.

> still, i wouldn't mind a 4 day work week.

make it 3.
The problem is that there are people who are unemployed, working 0 days
a week and people who are overworked with 6 days a week.

> no, it wasn't that. i simply think his material was better back in the old
> days.

It wasn't like the old days anymore ... maybe you're the one who's changed.
Maybe you associate his old days with times, which were more enjoyable to you
personally. or maybe you're right and he's not funny anymore (the greatest
insult you can throw at a comedian).

> not as much as he used to. basically half of his show is devoted to
> sending some idiot into a bedding store and having them lay on mattresses
> to give a rating of each one.

I'm beginning to wonder who is in fact the idiot.
Don't forget the "know your cuts of meet" section he does too often.
Morrissey wouldn't approve.

> uh...i've seen an episode or two of Larry Sanders and i thought that it
> was boring.

You should give it another shot, beyond the first few episodes.
It's a great show, which gives great insight into the world of late
night talk shows. You would look at Letterman's and Leno's Show in
a completely different light.
However it is not a show for the feeble minded, who enjoy being spoon
fed by some lame sitcom.

> documentaries like NOVA or some other random things like discussion of
> world events or documentaries on clint eastwood.

I saw a documentary of PBS, about the guide to happiness, through
the different great philosophers. It was very interesting.
One of the things I remember from it, is that people get mad, because
their expectations are too high, and then when something doesn't go
according to their expectations, they explode.
Apparently they are too optimistic.

> i've grown old and boring very fast, but oh well. you just don't really
> learn anything new and exciting watching regular TV.

Not faster than anyone else, you didn't.
I again recommend the Larry Sanders Show, if it's on repeat.

[suzanne]

> Yeah, I like cats better too.

except when they try to bite, or you can't get them into their carrier to take them to the vet...

> I wouldn't qualify anything which blindly obeys orders, smart.

not this dog. it had my grandma trained.
but really, its part of the social nature of dogs to be in a hierarchy and obey the leader. kinda like human society, sadly.

> The TV shows didn't have a plot, the plot is that they have a show to run
> and they do sketches in that show.

that's what i was saying. they just had john denver singing around a campfire and had puppets singing along. not very impressive.

> If you'd finally win the lottery at the age of 60, it won't be that
> exciting.

but i'd be saving myself the dignity of working as a wal-mart greeter....

> If the only reason you're talking to someone, is because you're there,
> that does not constitute as a very good relationship.

maybe not, but its also a pressure cooker of people that you wouldn't normally be around and you get to know interesting things because of it. sometimes its not strictly because they are crappy people that you don't hang out with them. sometimes they are cool people, but because of the social strata, you'd be the last person they'd invite for a drink, and so forth. it works both ways...

> make it 3.
> The problem is that there are people who are unemployed, working 0 days
> a week and people who are overworked with 6 days a week.

that is the truth of american society, and i was really living it for a while doing two jobs at once. i like how the blame keeps getting shifted from everything from dot.com failure to terrorists. they keep laying more and more people off simply because this is the sort of excuse they were looking for. and even after all this, one day, i too will probably be working for Starbucks and serving up coffee to the same assholes who laid me off.

> It wasn't like the old days anymore ... maybe you're the one who's
> changed.
> Maybe you associate his old days with times, which were more enjoyable to
> you
> personally.

i really don't have any reference to "the good old days" so it really has little to do with my personal life.

not that i haven't been wondering about that possibility because last night we were watching baseketball and i kept wondering if slapstick movies like that were always this bad...

but i remember seeing a documentary on They Might Be Giants and this one woman said something like, "you know...back in the days when Jay Leno was funny" and half of the audience laughed in appreciation of that observation. so, no, i don't think i'm really imagining it.

>or maybe you're right and he's not funny anymore (the greatest
> insult you can throw at a comedian).

it happens. look what happened to robin williams and martin short.

> I'm beginning to wonder who is in fact the idiot.
> Don't forget the "know your cuts of meet" section he does too
> often.
> Morrissey wouldn't approve.

that reminds me of that episode of saturday night live morrissey appeared on and they had a skit about book awards and a book called, "the wonderful world of meat" and i thought that was kinda funny...

> You should give it another shot, beyond the first few episodes.
> It's a great show, which gives great insight into the world of late
> night talk shows. You would look at Letterman's and Leno's Show in
> a completely different light.

i read the book that was about the battle for the tonight show when carson left....so i think that was enough enlightenment.

> However it is not a show for the feeble minded, who enjoy being spoon
> fed by some lame sitcom.

i really don't like sitcoms too much.

> I saw a documentary of PBS, about the guide to happiness, through
> the different great philosophers. It was very interesting.
> One of the things I remember from it, is that people get mad, because
> their expectations are too high, and then when something doesn't go
> according to their expectations, they explode.
> Apparently they are too optimistic.

or maybe people were mad because they were rightfully mad.

> Not faster than anyone else, you didn't.

oh no. in just a few years i went from going out on weeknights to hiding in my house if anything goes past 10.

> I again recommend the Larry Sanders Show, if it's on repeat.

i don't have cable...

[nonesoever]

> except when they try to bite, or you can't get them into their carrier to
> take them to the vet...

Yeah, old people can do that sometimes. Oh sorry, cats.

> not this dog. it had my grandma trained.
> but really, its part of the social nature of dogs to be in a hierarchy and
> obey the leader. kinda like human society, sadly.

They're still wolves at heart.
That documentary about happiness, I mentioned, also talked about
Socrates and how he tried to get the people of Athens to think and
not blindly trust what ever it is the majority or it's elected leaders,
say is right. Not to run with the herd of sheep.
Analyze things and come to a logical and founded solution.
A Philosopher, simply means a person who thinks.
The problem he hasn't succeeded in changing the world
and people-sheep today haven't changed a bit.

> that's what i was saying. they just had john denver singing around a
> campfire and had puppets singing along. not very impressive.

Somehow I get the feeling you only watched one episode.

> but i'd be saving myself the dignity of working as a wal-mart greeter....

> maybe not, but its also a pressure cooker of people that you wouldn't
> normally be around and you get to know interesting things because of it.
> sometimes its not strictly because they are crappy people that you don't
> hang out with them. sometimes they are cool people, but because of the
> social strata, you'd be the last person they'd invite for a drink, and so
> forth. it works both ways...

I guess it's good to meet people, to learn from what people you should keep
well away from. Most people are not worth being around of, those special
few are hard to find.

> that is the truth of american society, and i was really living it for a
> while doing two jobs at once. i like how the blame keeps getting shifted
> from everything from dot.com failure to terrorists. they keep laying more
> and more people off simply because this is the sort of excuse they were
> looking for. and even after all this, one day, i too will probably be
> working for Starbucks and serving up coffee to the same assholes who laid
> me off.

The truth is that there's really nothing for people to do.
There are too many people in the world and if once the industrial revolution
dictated that technology should replace people and make production cheaper,
now it's the other way round, you simply move your production line to China.

There are good times and bad times, now we're just entering a very long bad period.
The economy needs a reason to boost itself up again, in the 80s there was the
computerized revolution in the 90s it was cell phones and the internet
and now there isn't an immediate reason.

> i really don't have any reference to "the good old days" so it
> really has little to do with my personal life.

> not that i haven't been wondering about that possibility because last
> night we were watching baseketball and i kept wondering if slapstick
> movies like that were always this bad...

Baseketball? Is that a new sport, a combination of Baseball and basketball?
Anyway, the humor shifts greatly, as the decades pass.
Do we really find Chaplin funny anymore?

> but i remember seeing a documentary on They Might Be Giants and this one
> woman said something like, "you know...back in the days when Jay Leno
> was funny" and half of the audience laughed in appreciation of that
> observation. so, no, i don't think i'm really imagining it.

A documentary on They Might Be Giants, might have been made ten years ago,
when someone cared about them. Is it been so long since jay Leno was funny?

> it happens. look what happened to robin williams and martin short.

Everybody has their shtick and once you get to know them, they can't
really surprise you. Look at Jim Carrey.

> that reminds me of that episode of saturday night live morrissey appeared
> on and they had a skit about book awards and a book called, "the
> wonderful world of meat" and i thought that was kinda funny...

What's exciting is that it would probably happen again, when he'll do the
show when the new album comes out.

> i read the book that was about the battle for the tonight show when carson
> left....so i think that was enough enlightenment.

No really, that's not what it's all about. The Larry Sanders Show is about
the relationships behind the scenes. You have the host, who is a bit like a
pampered child, the disgruntled sidekick, the guests with their caprices, the
protective producer and the network.
For example the dynamics between the sidekick and the guest host.
In front of the camera, as you see on Letterman, it's all smiles.
The truth is very different.

> i really don't like sitcoms too much.

I didn't say you did, I just said that the show wasn't for people who
like straightforward sitcoms.

> or maybe people were mad because they were rightfully mad.

Yeah they were. What they meant is that if you know people around you are
idiots and things go wrong and are out of your hands, you should prepare
yourself accordingly and not explode when they happen.

> oh no. in just a few years i went from going out on weeknights to hiding
> in my house if anything goes past 10.

Why is that?
Maybe because going out, didn't make you very happy.
I know it can be perceived as not being "normal" but what is really the point
in interacting with people all of the time? having the same conversations.
People are very tiring.

> i don't have cable...

Now that's "not normal"

[suzanne]

> Yeah, old people can do that sometimes. Oh sorry, cats.

> They're still wolves at heart.
> That documentary about happiness, I mentioned, also talked about
> Socrates and how he tried to get the people of Athens to think and
> not blindly trust what ever it is the majority or it's elected leaders,
> say is right. Not to run with the herd of sheep.
> Analyze things and come to a logical and founded solution.
> A Philosopher, simply means a person who thinks.
> The problem he hasn't succeeded in changing the world
> and people-sheep today haven't changed a bit.

and it won't change since we're built on a hierarchy. it occasionally happens, like with the french revolution, but they stick a new one in its place.

> Somehow I get the feeling you only watched one episode.



i watched bits of pieces of a few. he's just the only one i can remember because i once had a john denver album.

> I guess it's good to meet people, to learn from what people you should
> keep
> well away from. Most people are not worth being around of, those special
> few are hard to find.

but we need people.

> The truth is that there's really nothing for people to do.
> There are too many people in the world and if once the industrial
> revolution
> dictated that technology should replace people and make production
> cheaper,
> now it's the other way round, you simply move your production line to
> China.

i remember the good old days when the big worry was that computers were going to steal everyone's jobs...and then that thought really went away because lots of computer based jobs sprung up. there are lots of jobs out there, but the problem is only a few of them pay enough for you to live off of.

> There are good times and bad times, now we're just entering a very long
> bad period.
> The economy needs a reason to boost itself up again, in the 80s there was
> the
> computerized revolution in the 90s it was cell phones and the internet
> and now there isn't an immediate reason.

the internet revolution was nothing more than a scam. it didn't really create jobs as much as it made temporary and legal fronts for people to have their life savings stolen from them via the stock market.

> Baseketball? Is that a new sport, a combination of Baseball and
> basketball?

yes, that's the point of the movie. they come up with this sport thats like a combination of the two.

> Anyway, the humor shifts greatly, as the decades pass.
> Do we really find Chaplin funny anymore?

no but the marx bros is pretty good.

> A documentary on They Might Be Giants, might have been made ten years ago,
> when someone cared about them. Is it been so long since jay Leno was
> funny?

ahem, that documentary about TMBG was debuted last year....

> Everybody has their shtick and once you get to know them, they can't
> really surprise you. Look at Jim Carrey.

i disagree. Jim Carrey is an artist with his physical movements.

> What's exciting is that it would probably happen again, when he'll do the
> show when the new album comes out.

possibly. i'd rather him be on Mad TV as that is a far superior show.

> No really, that's not what it's all about. The Larry Sanders Show is about
> the relationships behind the scenes. You have the host, who is a bit like
> a
> pampered child, the disgruntled sidekick, the guests with their caprices,
> the
> protective producer and the network.
> For example the dynamics between the sidekick and the guest host.
> In front of the camera, as you see on Letterman, it's all smiles.
> The truth is very different.

well, that's what i read in this book. supposedly Krusty the Clown from the simpsons is also based on letterman.

> I didn't say you did, I just said that the show wasn't for people who
> like straightforward sitcoms.

> Yeah they were. What they meant is that if you know people around you are
> idiots and things go wrong and are out of your hands, you should prepare
> yourself accordingly and not explode when they happen.

> Why is that?
> Maybe because going out, didn't make you very happy.
> I know it can be perceived as not being "normal" but what is
> really the point
> in interacting with people all of the time? having the same conversations.
> People are very tiring.

there is a point to it. what else do you do with yourself?

> Now that's "not normal"

[nonesoever]

> and it won't change since we're built on a hierarchy. it occasionally
> happens, like with the french revolution, but they stick a new one in its
> place.

The 20th century has proved there is no hierarchy, the main problem is that those who aspire to reach leadership positions and get elected are the most dumb and incompetent people there is.
The intelligent and competent people are just too realistic about their prospects of being elected.

Socrates also didn't agree with the concept of democracy - that what the majority thinks is the correct thing to do.
I must say I agree with him. The majority of the population are idiots and
ignorant people, who shudder at the thought of thinking for themselves.

"SOME PEOPLE EQUAL MORE THAN OTHERS"

>

> i watched bits of pieces of a few. he's just the only one i can remember
> because i once had a john denver album.

Didn't you find the old men at the balcony hilarious?

> but we need people.

For what?

> i remember the good old days when the big worry was that computers were
> going to steal everyone's jobs...and then that thought really went away
> because lots of computer based jobs sprung up. there are lots of jobs out
> there, but the problem is only a few of them pay enough for you to live
> off of.

> the internet revolution was nothing more than a scam. it didn't really
> create jobs as much as it made temporary and legal fronts for people to
> have their life savings stolen from them via the stock market.

I disagree the Internet revolution was a scam.
The ongoing broadband revolution will affect many aspects of our lives, among them the music industry, the TV and movie industry and such.
I agree however that the Internet revolution was used for an unimaginable
bubble to pop up in the financial markets, which a lot of new millionaires
owe their money to. There were apparently 2 million new millionaires in Europe alone.
But this is nothing new, people were scammed the same way in 80s, as they were in the 20s. What was different about the last time was the magnitude.
The stock market is essentially a mechanism to rob the public of its money.
There are no restrictions, no guarantees and no one is held liable.
They trust the public to forget all about it, until the next round.
That has to change.

One good thing that came out of it, is that millionaires shared a portion of their money with the common people, when they needed their idea and initiative. It at least gave people hope that they could be millionaires based on their abilities and knowledge.
The problem was that the people, who came to greatness, forgot to share their wealth with the people that were left behind.

> yes, that's the point of the movie. they come up with this sport thats
> like a combination of the two.

Oh, I haven't heard of this movie, sorry.
What planet am I living on?

> no but the marx bros is pretty good.

> ahem, that documentary about TMBG was debuted last year....

Was it interesting? I only know the "bird house" song from 1990.

> i disagree. Jim Carrey is an artist with his physical movements.

I agree he's talented and I loved what he's done when it was innovative,
but it gets old fast. I loved the way he did that part in Ace Ventura 2
when he was shot with the tranquilizer drugs.

> possibly. i'd rather him be on Mad TV as that is a far superior show.

From the old episodes I saw it wasn't that funny, although I love Spy Vs Spy.
But it isn't hard to be better in humor than Letterman.
It's different when you write material on a daily basis, to material you
write for a weekly show.
Well seeing Morrissey on any show is a happy occasion.

> well, that's what i read in this book. supposedly Krusty the Clown from
> the simpsons is also based on letterman.

With one difference, Krusty is funny.
I'm still amazed Conan O'brien, wrote some of the first few seasons' episodes.
I haven't read that book, but I don't think it's the same as the Sanders show.
Nevermind.

> there is a point to it. what else do you do with yourself?

Contemplating suicide?

[suzanne]

> The 20th century has proved there is no hierarchy, the main problem is
> that those who aspire to reach leadership positions and get elected are
> the most dumb and incompetent people there is.
> The intelligent and competent people are just too realistic about their
> prospects of being elected.

there is a hierarchy...and its called the good ol' boy network. George W is a prime example of it. he has no brain and did absolutely nothing for the first 40 years of his life, but now he is president.

> Socrates also didn't agree with the concept of democracy - that what the
> majority thinks is the correct thing to do.
> I must say I agree with him. The majority of the population are idiots and
> ignorant people, who shudder at the thought of thinking for themselves.

there isn't any true democracy anyhow. its run by corporations...which is also part of the network.

> "SOME PEOPLE EQUAL MORE THAN OTHERS"

> Didn't you find the old men at the balcony hilarious?

i really didn't "get" them until i was much older. as a kid, it really just flew over my head....if i was paying attention at all, which i don't think i was because i think that show was one of those things i'd try to watch but then i'd get up and wander off.

> For what?

what do you think?

> I disagree the Internet revolution was a scam.
> The ongoing broadband revolution will affect many aspects of our lives,
> among them the music industry, the TV and movie industry and such.
> I agree however that the Internet revolution was used for an unimaginable
> bubble to pop up in the financial markets, which a lot of new millionaires
> owe their money to. There were apparently 2 million new millionaires in
> Europe alone.

but how many people did it make poor?

money just doesn't get "created" out of thin air. its simply a redistribution from elsewhere.

not that all of it is a scam because the hardware and software is somewhat legitimate, but i'm talking about companies that create a website that sell things that people don't need or want just to get investor hopefuls to turn loose of their money. they took this money and turned around and spent it in outrageous ways with absolutely no business model for smart investment. like they intentionally wanted to bankrupt the company while they walked away with the severance package from being the president of the company.

> But this is nothing new, people were scammed the same way in 80s, as they
> were in the 20s. What was different about the last time was the magnitude.
> The stock market is essentially a mechanism to rob the public of its
> money.
> There are no restrictions, no guarantees and no one is held liable.
> They trust the public to forget all about it, until the next round.
> That has to change.

nobody except martha stewart.

> One good thing that came out of it, is that millionaires shared a portion
> of their money with the common people, when they needed their idea and
> initiative. It at least gave people hope that they could be millionaires
> based on their abilities and knowledge.
> The problem was that the people, who came to greatness, forgot to share
> their wealth with the people that were left behind.

they didn't "forget" to share anything.

> Oh, I haven't heard of this movie, sorry.
> What planet am I living on?

this was back in '98 or '99. it starred the guys who created South Park.

> Was it interesting? I only know the "bird house" song from 1990.

it was worse than morrissey's!

> I agree he's talented and I loved what he's done when it was innovative,
> but it gets old fast. I loved the way he did that part in Ace Ventura 2
> when he was shot with the tranquilizer drugs.

i think i liked the first Ace ventura movie better.

> From the old episodes I saw it wasn't that funny, although I love Spy Vs
> Spy.

that was the old episodes. the new ones are much better. Saturday Night Live has been shit for about 10 years.

> But it isn't hard to be better in humor than Letterman.
> It's different when you write material on a daily basis, to material you
> write for a weekly show.

i suppose. not that i've tried writing, but that's why they have a staff of writers to pad this thing out. combine that with 16 minutes of commercials and air time for the guests, you aren't really talking about too much.

> Well seeing Morrissey on any show is a happy occasion.

this is true. that's the best part of his documentary. and its even better now that after all this time he's coming out of his shell again. i'm dying to know what's going on with that album. october is so far away!!!

> With one difference, Krusty is funny.
> I'm still amazed Conan O'brien, wrote some of the first few seasons'
> episodes.

and the simpsons were actually better during that time...

> Contemplating suicide?

sometimes i wonder if there are ways to make me disappear without dying....i don't like the concept of death too much.

[nonesoever]

> there is a hierarchy...and its called the good ol' boy network. George W
> is a prime example of it. he has no brain and did absolutely nothing for
> the first 40 years of his life, but now he is president.

> there isn't any true democracy anyhow. its run by corporations...which is
> also part of the network.

It's not about hierarchy as it is about money and financial interests.

The beautiful part about the Internet revolution is that it enables direct
democracy, instead of the indirect democracy we have now.
In theory anyone can cast his or her vote via the Internet, the technology
at least is there and ready, the problem is the people at the top.

> i really didn't "get" them until i was much older. as a kid, it
> really just flew over my head....if i was paying attention at all, which i
> don't think i was because i think that show was one of those things i'd
> try to watch but then i'd get up and wander off.

I thought that the puppets were supposed to attract the kids,
you make a terrible child.

> what do you think?

Man is clearly self-sufficient.

> but how many people did it make poor?

> money just doesn't get "created" out of thin air. its simply a
> redistribution from elsewhere.

That as I've stated happened in the 20s as well.
I was talking about the all start-up phenomena and not the stock market.
It was the first time, rich people actually invested their money,
in less fortunate people, on the merit of their skill and ideas.

> not that all of it is a scam because the hardware and software is somewhat
> legitimate, but i'm talking about companies that create a website that
> sell things that people don't need or want just to get investor hopefuls
> to turn loose of their money. they took this money and turned around and
> spent it in outrageous ways with absolutely no business model for smart
> investment. like they intentionally wanted to bankrupt the company while
> they walked away with the severance package from being the president of
> the company.

I agree with you about the stock market.
It was a win-win situation for all parties involved, the investment bankers,
the company's owners, the stock traders, except for the little person whose
pension money was going down the drain.
Again, the stock market is a mechanism for stealing.
The surprising factor was the sheer size of the scams.
An obvious example is the case of a company called Akamai, which all the big companies were invested heavily in, Microsoft, Apple, etc.
It was trading after its IPO at the staggering market value of around 30
billion dollars, now it trades around 600 million and it should be bankrupt.
There were always scams, but not of such size.

> nobody except martha stewart.

What amazes me, is that people like the guys from Enron still hold the money
they stole. No one takes it back. Those guys should be shot.

> they didn't "forget" to share anything.

Yeah, that's exactly the point.
The money is not distributed correctly.
But then again, those people don't use most of the money they have,
it's impossible for a person to spend so much money on himself.
So that money is in fact non-existent.
If they'd ever actually use this money, it would crash the entire economy.

> this was back in '98 or '99. it starred the guys who created South Park.

> it was worse than morrissey's!

You didn't like Morrissey's documentary?

> i think i liked the first Ace ventura movie better.

I did too, but that bit where he gets shot with the tranquilizer is
one of his best performances.

> that was the old episodes. the new ones are much better. Saturday Night
> Live has been shit for about 10 years.

What did you expect when you let people like Tom Arnold in?

> i suppose. not that i've tried writing, but that's why they have a staff
> of writers to pad this thing out. combine that with 16 minutes of
> commercials and air time for the guests, you aren't really talking about
> too much.

Oh, that's another great aspect of the Larry Sanders Show, the writers
and their creative process, and how 99 percent of their jokes are thrown
down the bin.
I think the writers are not allowed to do what ever they want with the
medium, they are forced to write specific dumbed down material.

> this is true. that's the best part of his documentary. and its even better
> now that after all this time he's coming out of his shell again. i'm dying
> to know what's going on with that album. october is so far away!!!

October is actually quite close. I think he shouldn't rush things too much,
I want an excellent album. He should change a producer and First of the Gang,
sounded crappy on Kilborn. I hope there would be a Morrissey revival in the
world, although my only mistake is I'm hoping.

> and the simpsons were actually better during that time...

When they first started they were full of ideas, although the
first season wasn't that good and the drawings were very bad and
distorted. I think the seasons down in the middle were the greatest.
At the last few years, there were episodes where you knew they ran
out of ideas. when they started adding new sites to the town, or educational
episodes, or the family would travel to another country.
Although, the episode in Australia was excellent.

> sometimes i wonder if there are ways to make me disappear without
> dying....i don't like the concept of death too much.

I think there's a way, it's called living.
"How come someone hasn't noticed that I'm dead?"

[suzanne]

> It's not about hierarchy as it is about money and financial interests.

but there are only a few they allow to play the game.

> The beautiful part about the Internet revolution is that it enables direct
> democracy, instead of the indirect democracy we have now.
> In theory anyone can cast his or her vote via the Internet, the technology
> at least is there and ready, the problem is the people at the top.

i suppose it is, but you still have the logistics of the society that is already in place.

> I thought that the puppets were supposed to attract the kids,
> you make a terrible child.

yeah i did.

> Man is clearly self-sufficient.

try passing that philosophy on another generation....

> That as I've stated happened in the 20s as well.
> I was talking about the all start-up phenomena and not the stock market.
> It was the first time, rich people actually invested their money,
> in less fortunate people, on the merit of their skill and ideas.

> I agree with you about the stock market.
> It was a win-win situation for all parties involved, the investment
> bankers,
> the company's owners, the stock traders, except for the little person
> whose
> pension money was going down the drain.
> Again, the stock market is a mechanism for stealing.
> The surprising factor was the sheer size of the scams.
> An obvious example is the case of a company called Akamai, which all the
> big companies were invested heavily in, Microsoft, Apple, etc.
> It was trading after its IPO at the staggering market value of around 30
> billion dollars, now it trades around 600 million and it should be
> bankrupt.
> There were always scams, but not of such size.

i think the reason why there are so many scams is because its too hard to make an honest buck. unless that person was already rich, and usually they think they can get away with anything and have no compassion for anyone.

> What amazes me, is that people like the guys from Enron still hold the
> money
> they stole. No one takes it back. Those guys should be shot.

exactly. martha is just a diversion to say, "see? we care!"

> Yeah, that's exactly the point.
> The money is not distributed correctly.
> But then again, those people don't use most of the money they have,
> it's impossible for a person to spend so much money on himself.

unless you are J. Lo or MC Hammer.

> So that money is in fact non-existent.
> If they'd ever actually use this money, it would crash the entire economy.

> You didn't like Morrissey's documentary?

i did. i was joking about his own disapproval of it.

> I did too, but that bit where he gets shot with the tranquilizer is
> one of his best performances.

sadly, i don't remember it. i saw it once when it came out, so i don't even remember what happened in the movie.

> What did you expect when you let people like Tom Arnold in?

now there's a man who's not famous for anything.

> Oh, that's another great aspect of the Larry Sanders Show, the writers
> and their creative process, and how 99 percent of their jokes are thrown
> down the bin.
> I think the writers are not allowed to do what ever they want with the
> medium, they are forced to write specific dumbed down material.

that's how it works. its the sad drawback to working in television or film.

> October is actually quite close. I think he shouldn't rush things too
> much,
> I want an excellent album. He should change a producer and First of the
> Gang,
> sounded crappy on Kilborn.

i think that tune sticks with me the most.

i don't think he'll be going back to steve lillywhite. i think someone around here said one time that the band thought he butchered the last album.

>I hope there would be a Morrissey revival in
> the
> world, although my only mistake is I'm hoping.

it was already going on without him. all he did was finally decide to show up to his own party.

> When they first started they were full of ideas, although the
> first season wasn't that good and the drawings were very bad and
> distorted. I think the seasons down in the middle were the greatest.
> At the last few years, there were episodes where you knew they ran
> out of ideas. when they started adding new sites to the town, or
> educational
> episodes, or the family would travel to another country.
> Although, the episode in Australia was excellent.

its called "jumping the shark" when they start doing stuff like that.

> I think there's a way, it's called living.
> "How come someone hasn't noticed that I'm dead?"

that's too much effort as well.

[nonesoever]

> but there are only a few they allow to play the game.

If Bill Gates wants to be elected president tomorrow, I can't see anything stopping him. I guess he believes he can have more influence on people's lives, at his current position, than being the president.

> i suppose it is, but you still have the logistics of the society that is
> already in place.

So you're saying: don't try to fix something, which is already broken.

> yeah i did.

> try passing that philosophy on another generation....

There are enough serial breeders in the world.
I'm not too worried.

> i think the reason why there are so many scams is because its too hard to
> make an honest buck. unless that person was already rich, and usually they
> think they can get away with anything and have no compassion for anyone.

All the scams you are talking about, were conducted by rich people, who
wanted to make more money. Poor people don't have the ability to execute
such frauds.
It's a well-known fact that when you're rich, it's very easy to make more money, cause you have the access to means of money production.
You can go out and make another round in the stock market.

There are limited ways of making money, if you're not rich. You can either,
marry money or inherit money. No one becomes rich from work.

> exactly. martha is just a diversion to say, "see? we care!"

I think all the focus is on her, because she is more of a public
figure, everybody know her face.
While the guys from Enron stole billions, but no one knows how
they look like.

> unless you are J. Lo or MC Hammer.

Those are exceptions. People in the Music/Movie business, have to keep
a certain lifestyle. I'm talking about people you don't know and think
about, who are filthy rich and don't spend a tiny fragment of the interest
they are getting.
The en ire world's assets are held by less than a percent of the population.

> i did. i was joking about his own disapproval of it.

Were They Might Be Giants, happy with theirs?

> sadly, i don't remember it. i saw it once when it came out, so i don't
> even remember what happened in the movie.

It was that memorable, ha.

> now there's a man who's not famous for anything.

He's famous for marrying Rosanne.

> that's how it works. its the sad drawback to working in television or
> film.

Nah, I think your work is not appreciated in any industry.

> i think that tune sticks with me the most.

I think the composition is a bit flat.

> i don't think he'll be going back to steve lillywhite. i think someone
> around here said one time that the band thought he butchered the last
> album.

I think Alain said that.
I think all the albums he produced were badly produced, including Vauxhall.

> it was already going on without him. all he did was finally decide to show
> up to his own party.

A surprise party I might add

> its called "jumping the shark" when they start doing stuff like
> that.

Why is it called "jumping the shark"?

> that's too much effort as well.

Yeah, it's more difficult than death. Death is really an easy option.

[suzanne]

> If Bill Gates wants to be elected president tomorrow, I can't see anything
> stopping him. I guess he believes he can have more influence on people's
> lives, at his current position, than being the president.

i understand that he might have autism, which actually doesn't make him prone to want to be in politics...

> So you're saying: don't try to fix something, which is already broken.

i don't hold that high of a hope for change.

> There are enough serial breeders in the world.
> I'm not too worried.

i'm talking about getting the slices for free...

> All the scams you are talking about, were conducted by rich people, who
> wanted to make more money. Poor people don't have the ability to execute
> such frauds.

that's when they get into dealing drugs...

> It's a well-known fact that when you're rich, it's very easy to make more
> money, cause you have the access to means of money production.
> You can go out and make another round in the stock market.

or you know the people that can hook you up with other means of business.

> There are limited ways of making money, if you're not rich. You can
> either,
> marry money or inherit money. No one becomes rich from work.

i know that, which is why we have to get the poor people to write novels about wizards or form rock bands...

> I think all the focus is on her, because she is more of a public
> figure, everybody know her face.
> While the guys from Enron stole billions, but no one knows how
> they look like.

oh they know. its just that the powers that be have a personal interest in hiding it.

since she was able to buy her way out of the AOL-Time-Warner conglomerate, i'm sure that they were more than happy to tear her to shreds

> Those are exceptions. People in the Music/Movie business, have to keep
> a certain lifestyle. I'm talking about people you don't know and think
> about, who are filthy rich and don't spend a tiny fragment of the interest
> they are getting.
> The en ire world's assets are held by less than a percent of the
> population.

the people who own private jet planes and 5 houses?

> Were They Might Be Giants, happy with theirs?

i don't know. i assume they were since they were there at the screening.

> It was that memorable, ha.

i can't remember half of the stuff i watch.

> He's famous for marrying Rosanne.

well, yeah, he's famous for nothing....

> Nah, I think your work is not appreciated in any industry.

i think that novel writers can get away with the most because there is always some publisher who will take a chance on it.

> I think the composition is a bit flat.

how can you tell? it wasn't professionally produced or anything.

> I think Alain said that.
> I think all the albums he produced were badly produced, including
> Vauxhall.

i like Vauxhall regardless. at any rate, i hope that whoever he gets this time around can breathe some energy into those songs. i wouldn't have the first clue who to recommend, but Maladjusted especially didn't seem like it had an ounce of humor.

> A surprise party I might add

a surprise to anyone who's been living in a cave for the past year.

> Why is it called "jumping the shark"?

its this term that originated from the show Happy Days where the Fonze skies over a shark. i don't know who coined it, but its come to mean any time a show changes and starts to add new characters or go on European vacations because they've run out of ideas.

> Yeah, it's more difficult than death. Death is really an easy option.

kinda messy though

[nonesoever]

> i understand that he might have autism, which actually doesn't make him
> prone to want to be in politics...

Give me some of that autism
He would make a great dictator, you have to give him that.

> i don't hold that high of a hope for change.

At least not for a change for the better ...

> i'm talking about getting the slices for free...

Don't you know nothing in this world, comes free?

> that's when they get into dealing drugs...

No, they get into peddling drugs, when they're after the big money.

> or you know the people that can hook you up with other means of business.

That constitutes being rich in my diary.
If there's someone rich, willing to help you make money,
it's as if you were practically handed the money.
Unfortunately this case is fictional.
Rich people don't do that.

> i know that, which is why we have to get the poor people to write novels
> about wizards or form rock bands...

Wizards and rock bands, Britain's largest export.

> oh they know. its just that the powers that be have a personal interest in
> hiding it.

I know they know, but the public is hardly aware of it, it's the media's
fault.

> since she was able to buy her way out of the AOL-Time-Warner conglomerate,
> i'm sure that they were more than happy to tear her to shreds

Usually in business, it's something more personal than that.
Business is hardly ever about business.
She probably didn't say hello someday and someone got offended.

> the people who own private jet planes and 5 houses?

Yeah, but those people have billions, that is just a fragment of their
wealth. People like Bill Gates.
People who are not in the music or movie industries, people
who are completely unknown to the public.

> i don't know. i assume they were since they were there at the screening.

Not if they hadn't seen the movie before the screening.

> i can't remember half of the stuff i watch.

Yeah well, it's just like life. I can hardly remember what happened in
the course of every day of my life.
The brain only stores parts it finds important, interesting or exciting.
Most of my days don't meet those terms.

> well, yeah, he's famous for nothing....

The fact of the matter is that you know who he is ... the reason is
not that important. Being famous for nothing is better than being
infamous. "Still I'd rather be famous ..."

> i think that novel writers can get away with the most because there is
> always some publisher who will take a chance on it.

Yeah, but there are thousands of books getting published everyday, and
no one takes notice. I don't know who first bought Harry Potter.

> how can you tell? it wasn't professionally produced or anything.

I'm no music expert but the guitar riff is flat and the composition lacks depth.
I hope the production would make a difference, because the Kilbron
version is awful.

> i like Vauxhall regardless. at any rate, i hope that whoever he gets this
> time around can breathe some energy into those songs. i wouldn't have the
> first clue who to recommend, but Maladjusted especially didn't seem like
> it had an ounce of humor.

I love Vauxhall, but the production could have been much better, for songs
like Speedway.
Maladjusted had a lot of humor, Satan, Roy's Keen, Sorrow will come .
I don't know about producers, but I think the album should be made with
a more raw and live sound.

> a surprise to anyone who's been living in a cave for the past year.

I don't know if that's true, he could have signed the same deal a year
ago and didn't, so I was surprised he signed it in the end.
No, I do not live in a cave!

> its this term that originated from the show Happy Days where the Fonze
> skies over a shark. i don't know who coined it, but its come to mean any
> time a show changes and starts to add new characters or go on European
> vacations because they've run out of ideas.

Oh, somehow I think they must have ran out of ideas long before Fonze
skied over that shark, cause that is as low as one can get.
I think that as with Morrissey and vampires, they need fresh blood.

> kinda messy though

You mean, life or death?

[suzanne]

> Give me some of that autism
> He would make a great dictator, you have to give him that.

he would make an excellent dictator...definitely an excellent dictator.

> At least not for a change for the better ...

true.

i read today that Bush was wanting to push a bill through that would eliminate overtime pay for many workers. people are so scared of their own shit these days it might actually go through.

> Don't you know nothing in this world, comes free?

ok, bargain rack...

> No, they get into peddling drugs, when they're after the big money.

> That constitutes being rich in my diary.
> If there's someone rich, willing to help you make money,
> it's as if you were practically handed the money.
> Unfortunately this case is fictional.
> Rich people don't do that.

> Wizards and rock bands, Britain's largest export.

and decent ones at that. it says something when many facets of british culture are seeping into america because we've done such a good job of killing off our own creativity.

> I know they know, but the public is hardly aware of it, it's the media's
> fault.

> Usually in business, it's something more personal than that.
> Business is hardly ever about business.
> She probably didn't say hello someday and someone got offended.

> Yeah, but those people have billions, that is just a fragment of their
> wealth. People like Bill Gates.
> People who are not in the music or movie industries, people
> who are completely unknown to the public.

yet by their hording it, more people are homeless and without.

> Not if they hadn't seen the movie before the screening.

> Yeah well, it's just like life. I can hardly remember what happened in
> the course of every day of my life.
> The brain only stores parts it finds important, interesting or exciting.
> Most of my days don't meet those terms.

its handy when i watch reruns of the x-files.

> The fact of the matter is that you know who he is ... the reason is
> not that important. Being famous for nothing is better than being
> infamous. "Still I'd rather be famous ..."

> Yeah, but there are thousands of books getting published everyday, and
> no one takes notice. I don't know who first bought Harry Potter.

it was probably teachers who turned around and read it to their students. most parents wouldn't pick up a book that big, and most kids (except for the book nerds) don't really seek out literature on their own.

> I'm no music expert but the guitar riff is flat and the composition lacks
> depth.
> I hope the production would make a difference, because the Kilbron
> version is awful.

most guitar riffs aren't that memorable, but i think its the beat underneath and the vocal melody that more than makes up for it.

> I love Vauxhall, but the production could have been much better, for songs
> like Speedway.
> Maladjusted had a lot of humor, Satan, Roy's Keen, Sorrow will come .

that's not what i meant. the underlying music itself was very turgid.

> I don't know about producers, but I think the album should be made with
> a more raw and live sound.

that depends on what sort of songs they've written.

> I don't know if that's true, he could have signed the same deal a year
> ago and didn't, so I was surprised he signed it in the end.

he either gave up on the other labels, or the idea of helming his own label sounded too good.

that in itself is like playing the lottery. anyone that he signs has the potential of selling many records and from that, he'd get a cut from it.

> No, I do not live in a cave!

you don't?

> Oh, somehow I think they must have ran out of ideas long before Fonze
> skied over that shark, cause that is as low as one can get.

but the point was that it was so blaringly obvious and bad that it was coined into a phrase.

not that i've seen any Happy Days to know what specific incident they are talking about....again, i think they showed it as reruns when i was growing up, but i had no interest in it.

> I think that as with Morrissey and vampires, they need fresh blood.

are you saying Morrissey has jumped the shark?

> You mean, life or death?

er...

[nonesoever]

> he would make an excellent dictator...definitely an excellent dictator.

Maybe that's exactly what we all need.

> true.

> i read today that Bush was wanting to push a bill through that would
> eliminate overtime pay for many workers. people are so scared of their own
> shit these days it might actually go through.

Bush only helps the rich, that's why he's there.
That big tax cut on dividends will benefit only the extraordinary rich.

> ok, bargain rack...

> and decent ones at that. it says something when many facets of british
> culture are seeping into america because we've done such a good job of
> killing off our own creativity.

America was the land, all of Britain's criminal, poor and disabled people,
chose to immigrate to. The talent stayed in Britain.
Another factor is, that in order to have a culture of your own and creativity stemming from it, you have to have a history.
America doesn't have a history of its own yet.

> yet by their hording it, more people are homeless and without.

> its handy when i watch reruns of the x-files.

I really couldn't stand that show.
They were never able to solve a case.
You don't like movies with aliens, but TV series with them you do?

> it was probably teachers who turned around and read it to their students.
> most parents wouldn't pick up a book that big, and most kids (except for
> the book nerds) don't really seek out literature on their own.

It sounds like a sound explanation, but how many children do you know
who would listen to anything their teacher tells them?

> most guitar riffs aren't that memorable, but i think its the beat
> underneath and the vocal melody that more than makes up for it.

I disagree, Marr's riffs are very memorable and that's what I love
about The Smiths' music. Morrissey's co-writer also had many
memorable riffs. Of course what makes the songs precious is the
lyrics and the sentiment they convey.
I feel Boz's preference is for the distorted guitar sound, rather
than riffs. take Maladjusted, Now My Heart and such as an example.
Alain's compositions are more melodic, though it seems to me at
times, he is running out of ideas.

> that's not what i meant. the underlying music itself was very turgid.

I think that's because of the production and also the compositions
were again about distortion and ambiance, rather than classic riffs
as in Vauxhall.

> that depends on what sort of songs they've written.

I'm basing my notions on the new songs.

> he either gave up on the other labels, or the idea of helming his own
> label sounded too good.

He didn't have too many offers, I presume.

> that in itself is like playing the lottery. anyone that he signs has the
> potential of selling many records and from that, he'd get a cut from it.

Somehow I don't reckon that's what made him sign the deal.

> you don't?

no, I live in the modern equivalent of a cave.

> but the point was that it was so blaringly obvious and bad that it was
> coined into a phrase.

I thought that Happy Days was the coined phrase

> not that i've seen any Happy Days to know what specific incident they are
> talking about....again, i think they showed it as reruns when i was
> growing up, but i had no interest in it.

Never seen it. I think that was the show featured on Weezer's music video,
back in the mid 90s.

> are you saying Morrissey has jumped the shark?

No I'm not. I think he became very good in writing his sort of material,
and it maybe became too easy. He needs something exciting again, to get
the creative juices again.

[suzanne]

> Maybe that's exactly what we all need.

"president Rainman is on line #2, sir...."

> Bush only helps the rich, that's why he's there.
> That big tax cut on dividends will benefit only the extraordinary rich.

yeah, i KNOW that, but its just really sad. just think of how that trickles down when people work even longer hours and more people get laid off because they can work fewer people for even longer hours and have fewer people enrolled in HMO's and such.

> America was the land, all of Britain's criminal, poor and disabled people,
> chose to immigrate to. The talent stayed in Britain.
> Another factor is, that in order to have a culture of your own and
> creativity stemming from it, you have to have a history.
> America doesn't have a history of its own yet.

yes we do. if you're talking about european history, it begins more with Columbus which is over 500 years ago. Indian history goes back thousands of years.

there is no such thing as a constant culture. unless you think that brits still write in runes and have any use for stonehenge outside of a tourist attraction.

> I really couldn't stand that show.
> They were never able to solve a case.
> You don't like movies with aliens, but TV series with them you do?

that's not completely true. i liked many of the star trek movies and maybe Close encounters of the 3rd kind or the day the earth stood still just a tad, but most alien movies are poorly done. there is something really cheesey about most of them.

> It sounds like a sound explanation, but how many children do you know
> who would listen to anything their teacher tells them?

kids like to be read to. in most classes i was in growing up, teachers always could get the entire room to sit down and shut up if they were reading a book to the class.

> I disagree, Marr's riffs are very memorable and that's what I love
> about The Smiths' music. Morrissey's co-writer also had many
> memorable riffs. Of course what makes the songs precious is the
> lyrics and the sentiment they convey.

people like Marr aren't exactly being reaped in the fields are they? if they were a dime a dozen, the smiths would never have meant what they did.

> I feel Boz's preference is for the distorted guitar sound, rather
> than riffs. take Maladjusted, Now My Heart and such as an example.
> Alain's compositions are more melodic, though it seems to me at
> times, he is running out of ideas.

possibly, or he's grown into the idea of what morrissey expects...besides, not every song on this planet needs a strong riff to it. about half of Marr's songs were nothing but chord progressions.

> I think that's because of the production and also the compositions
> were again about distortion and ambiance, rather than classic riffs
> as in Vauxhall.

> I'm basing my notions on the new songs.

as with all songs, someone could throw in a piano part in the studio that they may not can live.

> He didn't have too many offers, I presume.

he probably had some, but record companies are really cheap these days. its not really a comment on his artistry as much as it is how many albums they can sell.

> Somehow I don't reckon that's what made him sign the deal.

either way, he didn't retire....life pushes onward. does the reason really matter anymore on why he finally caved in? or is it more important that he finally made a decision about himself after so very very very long?

> no, I live in the modern equivalent of a cave.

> I thought that Happy Days was the coined phrase

> Never seen it. I think that was the show featured on Weezer's music video,
> back in the mid 90s.

yup.

> No I'm not. I think he became very good in writing his sort of material,
> and it maybe became too easy. He needs something exciting again, to get
> the creative juices again.

its hard to tell from five songs...

[nonesoever]

> "president Rainman is on line #2, sir...."

Why is that in order to win an Oscar, one has to play a retarded or disabled person?
That's what's wrong with America, hypocrisy.
Anyway, I always thought Rainman would make a great Oasis fan,
"definitely, definitely maybe, definitely".

> yeah, i KNOW that, but its just really sad. just think of how that
> trickles down when people work even longer hours and more people get laid
> off because they can work fewer people for even longer hours and have
> fewer people enrolled in HMO's and such.

People should understand that there's more to life than work ...

> yes we do. if you're talking about european history, it begins more with
> Columbus which is over 500 years ago. Indian history goes back thousands
> of years.

Don't try to make Indian history your own.
All Americans had to do with Indian culture, is they tried to destroy it.

> there is no such thing as a constant culture. unless you think that brits
> still write in runes and have any use for stonehenge outside of a tourist
> attraction.

It's not about that.
Being English for example, is more than being born in England.
It's about the history, the hostility towards other nations, the heritage,
the arts, the queen, the social texture, the economic structure.
You need all that to produce creativeness.
Look at Morrissey, being English is what defines his writing, he relies
on British authors, writes about the complexities of England, its history,
what he hates and loves about it.

American just can't reproduce that. Yet.

> that's not completely true. i liked many of the star trek movies and maybe
> Close encounters of the 3rd kind or the day the earth stood still just a
> tad, but most alien movies are poorly done. there is something really
> cheesey about most of them.

I liked Star Trek The Next Generation, but not the original Star Trek,
or what came after The Next Generation, like Deep Shit 9.
I think it's not about aliens at all. I like a movie because of the story,
whether it has aliens in it or not.
The story has to have a logical idea or theory behind it, otherwise it
can become cheesy.

> kids like to be read to. in most classes i was in growing up, teachers
> always could get the entire room to sit down and shut up if they were
> reading a book to the class.

Just goes to show laziness is in the nature of man and it shows even
at a very young age.

> people like Marr aren't exactly being reaped in the fields are they? if
> they were a dime a dozen, the smiths would never have meant what they did.

As I've said before, age is also an important factor.
Young people are full of ideas and desire to learn and experiment,
when you pass a certain age, it isn't there anymore.
Of course, the talent has to be there first and foremost.

> possibly, or he's grown into the idea of what morrissey expects...besides,
> not every song on this planet needs a strong riff to it. about half of
> Marr's songs were nothing but chord progressions.

Yeah, but the ones I like best are the ones with the memorable riffs.
Even when it's not about the riff, the progression gives it structure.
I don't like the structures compositions of say Maladjusted (the song)
as much.
Is it a coincidence "The More You Ignore Me" was his biggest success?

> as with all songs, someone could throw in a piano part in the studio that
> they may not can live.

I don't know why Morrissey hasn't introduced a piano to his live performance.

> he probably had some, but record companies are really cheap these days.
> its not really a comment on his artistry as much as it is how many albums
> they can sell.

Seeing his record sales on the front page makes me wonder if they were ever
the sole reason for signing him. Lets face it, he never sold millions.
I have to believe him when he says he was never offered millions as a signing
bonus. Sanctuary I think understand his position and know what to expect.

> either way, he didn't retire....life pushes onward. does the reason really
> matter anymore on why he finally caved in? or is it more important that he
> finally made a decision about himself after so very very very long?

I feel it's the right decision. I just hope the reason for this decision were
right as well.

> yup.

> its hard to tell from five songs...

Five songs make half an album ...