Victory
What do you anti-war folks have to say about the images on my TV screen this morning from Baghdad, as I watch Iraqis looking very happy, cheering, waving, and looting various buildings that represent Saddam's police state apparatus?
So much we've accomplished in 3 weeks time.
Re: Victory
> What do you anti-war folks have to say about the images on my TV screen
> this morning from Baghdad, as I watch Iraqis looking very happy, cheering,
> waving, and looting various buildings that represent Saddam's police state
> apparatus?
> So much we've accomplished in 3 weeks time.
It is tough beating a country at war whose entiore arsenal consists of 3 bricks and a catapult.
What do I say ? I say I feel ashamed to be an American.Asshole.
Have you seen a therapist for your illness?
Re: Victory
> What do you anti-war folks have to say about the images on my TV screen
> this morning from Baghdad, as I watch Iraqis looking very happy, cheering,
> waving, and looting various buildings that represent Saddam's police state
> apparatus?
Those are undoubtedly joyous images - goodbye Saddam and good riddance.
BUT indications are, as one reporter just stated, those people are mostly Shias, and it's not surprising that the most repressed sectors of Iraqi society are the most immediately joyous at Saddam's downfall. I hope no-one is taking this as a sign that the "hearts and minds" battle is instantaneously won. In a city of 5 million people the fact that (as CNN stated) "hundreds of Iraqis" out of a population of 5 million are so ostentatiously celebrating. No doubt the friends and relatives of those who have died innocently in the conflict will have more mixed feelings. And that's always been the nature of the equation in my mind - a cost-benefit analysis of getting rid of a despot v those who will innocently die in the process.
"Hospitals in Baghdad are now overflowing, and the Red Cross has described a desparate humanitarian situation within the city" - ABC news. Latest estimate - 1000 civilians dead and over 5000 seriously injured. I'm not sure I agree with lobbing bombs into civilian areas because inteligence indicates Saddam may have been seen entering a building in the area, nor shelling the Palestine Hotel merely because some fire is reported to have come from the building.
I hope the endgame is reached as quickly and as bloodlessly as possible.
And re. the looting, well of course it's hoped some semblance of law and order is reached ASAP.
Re: Victory
> It is tough beating a country at war whose entiore arsenal consists of 3
> bricks and a catapult.
> What do I say ? I say I feel ashamed to be an American.Asshole.
You've really got to wonder if, militarily speaking, the Iraqi army has replaced the Italians as the crappest military force on the face of the planet. Retreating armies not even attempting to demolish bridges in the process - even given the strength and speed of the US assault, it is truly bizarre. One theory- the Iraqi army had become so geared towards repressing the population it was utterly incapable of actually defending the country.
Memo to dictators the world over - take note!
Re: Looting
My newspaper reports that some Iraqis have been busying themselves pulling oil refineries apart. Ooops, that wrecks Bush's plan to get his hands on the oil.
> What do you anti-war folks have to say about the images on my TV screen
> this morning from Baghdad, as I watch Iraqis looking very happy, cheering,
> waving, and looting various buildings that represent Saddam's police state
> apparatus?
> So much we've accomplished in 3 weeks time.
Iraqi free speech is a beautiful thing!
> It is tough beating a country at war whose entiore arsenal consists of 3
> bricks and a catapult.
> What do I say ? I say I feel ashamed to be an American.Asshole.
Yes, that's what you have to say. Of course you've had freedom your whole life, and obviously haven't sat and thought about what it might be like to live in Saddam's Republic of Fear. Which is why you must be so confused about what's taking place in Baghdad today.
I like to see the free speech being exercised in the center of Baghdad, by people who haven't been able to speak freely ever before. And I'm seeing it live on my TV right this moment.
My favorite is a bunch of liberated Iraqis holding up a large banner at this very moment, and it reads: "GO HOME HUMAN SHIELDS, YOU U.S. WANKERS!"
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Stick that up Noam Chomsky's stupid fucking ass! Noam Chomsky, the man who praised the "human shields" as courageous Americans. What a piece of shit he is. The fool of the century.
ROFL!!!!
Truth, baby! In your fucking faces!
I also got a kick out of the Iraqi man holding up a picture of Saddam, laughing, and slapping Saddam's face with his shoe.
Right now the people of Baghdad are trying to figure out how to destroy a statue statute of Saddam.
To imagine some people dare to call this an unjust war.
Fuck them.
Re: Victory
> Those are undoubtedly joyous images - goodbye Saddam and good riddance.
> BUT indications are, as one reporter just stated, those people are mostly
> Shias, and it's not surprising that the most repressed sectors of Iraqi
> society are the most immediately joyous at Saddam's downfall. I hope
> no-one is taking this as a sign that the "hearts and minds"
> battle is instantaneously won. In a city of 5 million people the fact that
> (as CNN stated) "hundreds of Iraqis" out of a population of 5
> million are so ostentatiously celebrating. No doubt the friends and
> relatives of those who have died innocently in the conflict will have more
> mixed feelings. And that's always been the nature of the equation in my
> mind - a cost-benefit analysis of getting rid of a despot v those who will
> innocently die in the process.
Um, why don't you factor into your equation the people who have been suffering and dying under Saddam, and would continue to be suffering and dying under Saddam if we hadn't done this?
> "Hospitals in Baghdad are now overflowing, and the Red Cross has
> described a desparate humanitarian situation within the city" - ABC
> news. Latest estimate - 1000 civilians dead and over 5000 seriously
> injured. I'm not sure I agree with lobbing bombs into civilian areas
> because inteligence indicates Saddam may have been seen entering a
> building in the area, nor shelling the Palestine Hotel merely because some
> fire is reported to have come from the building.
> I hope the endgame is reached as quickly and as bloodlessly as possible.
> And re. the looting, well of course it's hoped some semblance of law and
> order is reached ASAP.
Today is a day of celebration. Why not share the joy and relief of the Iraqi and Kurdish peoples?
Re: Looting
> My newspaper reports that some Iraqis have been busying themselves pulling
> oil refineries apart. Ooops, that wrecks Bush's plan to get his hands on
> the oil.
Some of you guys seem like you're completely brainwashed into a cult. Seek a shrink to deprogram you. Each day that passes in this war, all of your silly arguments get nuked one by one. But apparently you'll cling to the reality you wanna beleve in no matter how discreditted it is. You're gonna end up like Baghdad Bob.
In other words: You were wrong, and that burns you inside.
Turn on FOX News. *Iraqis* are calling you anti-war dolts "wankers" on their banner. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God I love it.
Re: Victory
> Um, why don't you factor into your equation the people who have been
> suffering and dying under Saddam, and would continue to be suffering and
> dying under Saddam if we hadn't done this?
I do. My fault for not mentioning that. BUT, the situation was that Saddam was utterly under the thumb of the world community prior to the start of the war, his ability to victimise as many people as have died in the conflict was minimal. But it's all history now. It's a good thing he's gone, my attention now moves to the post-war uncertainties. I would have gone about it a different way (I still think this war was entered into prematurely), but the outcome is good.
> Today is a day of celebration. Why not share the joy and relief of the
> Iraqi and Kurdish peoples?
I do. As I share the the suffering of those who are lying in hospitals and coffins.
Give it up, folks.
I've waited for this day for months and months and months. To rub it in your faces. I'm sorry I'm so immature. But then again, it kinda needs to be done.
After all, you wouldn't listen to all those Iraqi exiles who were trying to tell you the Iraqi people couldn't wait for the day they could smash to pieces all those statues of the disgusting dictator of Baghdad.
Re: Victory
> I do. My fault for not mentioning that. BUT, the situation was that Saddam
> was utterly under the thumb of the world community prior to the start of
> the war, his ability to victimise as many people as have died in the
> conflict was minimal. But it's all history now. It's a good thing he's
> gone, my attention now moves to the post-war uncertainties. I would have
> gone about it a different way (I still think this war was entered into
> prematurely), but the outcome is good.
> I do. As I share the the suffering of those who are lying in hospitals and
> coffins.
Did you see that little boy who lost both his arms? I fucking cried seeing him on the TV the other day. I guess a missile hit his home when he was sleeping. I think his whole family died. Anyway, he told the doctors if he can't have new arms he wants to die. So now some people in England are trying to pay for artificial limbs for him.
Re: Victory
> Did you see that little boy who lost both his arms? I fucking cried seeing
> him on the TV the other day. I guess a missile hit his home when he was
> sleeping. I think his whole family died. Anyway, he told the doctors if he
> can't have new arms he wants to die. So now some people in England are
> trying to pay for artificial limbs for him.
Yes, saw that, but I think his mother was standing at the head of his bed. As I recall, most of the rest of the family perished.
War goddamn sucks, and I advocate its avoidance wherever and whenever possible.
Re: Give it up, folks.
> I've waited for this day for months and months and months. To rub it in
> your faces. I'm sorry I'm so immature. But then again, it kinda needs to
> be done.
> After all, you wouldn't listen to all those Iraqi exiles who were trying
> to tell you the Iraqi people couldn't wait for the day they could smash to
> pieces all those statues of the disgusting dictator of Baghdad.
You're not immature just a pathetic little wimp. You come out with all this macho war talk but it is a racing certainty you are a skinny little coward who would run a mile if he heard a balloon burst.
Someone who has probably had the shit kicked out of him all his life and so stays at home all day pretending to be hard behind his P.C and his pathetic little world.
Are you loathsome, tonight?
Re: Victory
> Yes, saw that, but I think his mother was standing at the head of his bed.
> As I recall, most of the rest of the family perished.
I thought that was his Aunt. Not sure.
Re: Give it up, folks.
I understand you feel the need to lash out because you've been proven a moron by the Iraqi people.
I'm sorry you're too small to share in the happiness of the people of Baghdad today.
And we're finding out who the true radicals and revolutionaries are on Morrissey-Solo.
Today I sing, as a revolutionary, in solidarity:
o/~ The Iraqi people have a wonderful dream/Saddam on the guillotine o/~
Meanwhile, certain others seem quite upset at the fall of the dictator.
Bitter, bitter people. Always wrong, but surely they'll be back tomorrow to tell us they're the authorities on how to build a new Iraq.
On my way home from my morning class just now I had NPR on. They played a clip from the House of Commons. Tony Blair was being praised for the most brilliant military operation in recent memory, and then was asked who he could find in Iraq to obtain an unconditional surrendor from. Someone then yelled out the name of one of Labor's most staunch anti-war politicians as a suggestion. The whole place erupted in laughter.
Yes, we're laughing at those who were wrong.
We won.
HA HA HA!!!
Re: Give it up, folks.
Re: Victory
> What do you anti-war folks have to say about the images on my TV screen
> this morning from Baghdad, as I watch Iraqis looking very happy, cheering,
> waving, and looting various buildings that represent Saddam's police state
> apparatus?
> So much we've accomplished in 3 weeks time.
What do I have to say about the images on American TV? I'm truly disappointed. Each station trying to shove the American flag down our throat further than the last station. They only show one side to the story and that is the side the Pentagon wants us to see.
What do I think about the war?
First of all I'm wondering why it is taking us so long? The first Gulf War ground assault took 4 days. Now 12 years of sanctions, punishing airstrikes, support of rebel kurds and opposition parties, and covert operations and it took us longer to win the war, but again...fail to capture Saddam Hussein. We have the most powerful military force on the planet with the most sophisticated weaponry, we had complete air superiority from day 1. To top it off, you have been screaming that the UN needed to do more to to take away any defense Iraq had so you could stand here later and gloat at all the loss of life in the name of liberation. This wasn't a war, it was a massacre.
Our track record of invading a forign power and leaving a better form of government in place is quite pathetic. One only has to go back to our last one where the warlords run Afghanistan. The Pentagon now has said it will take at least 6 months for a change of Governemnt in Iraq. (Yesterday: Fox news) So I suppose that 6 months of free oil.
The pathetic thing is that because we won the war, you seem to think that this justifies it and proves all the protesters wrong. People are protesting for many reasons, be it American Imperialism, America's unsatiable desire for oil, a grudge against Saddam, but most importantly America's PRE_EMPTIVE illigetimate attack on a foreign country. Your side is so full of shit...you started out saying how this was to remove WMD's and for our own protection. The American CIA last year gave a report that the only way Saddam would give WMD to terrorists would be if we invaded Iraq. Now we have won the war and the only thing we have found are pesticides and chemical suits from Iraq's war with Iran. We again failed to capture Saddam Hussein. So...all of a sudden..this is a war of Liberating the Iraqi people. A rationale used so many times previously for colonial conquest and imperialism. "We are bringing civilization to this dark corner of the world"
Bush has described himself as a Christian man and a man of peace. He would only use war as a last resort. Yet, over a year ago, Time magazine reported that when NSA C. Rice was in a meeting with 3 Senators discussing Iraqi policy, Bush stuck his head in and said "Fuck Saddam, we're taking him out". Since then they have lied to the UN and the American people using forged documents stating Iraq was building a Nulceal program, they alterred transcripts to make them appear more damning, they used plagairized outdated material to build a case, all the while undermining the UN. Bush even used the forged documents as prof in his SOTU speech even though they knew they were forged. They gave us false information and scare tactics on a drone that could deliver a payload, metal tubing that could be used to make weapnos grade plutonium, empty chemical warheads, etc. Don Evans, one of Bush's closest friends, was reported by USA Today as saying that Bush believes himself to be on a mission from God. It is sickening.
The USA cries foul for war crimes because Iraqis have shown POW's on TV and have military personel in civilian dress. The USA was guilty of both before Iraq on both counts. Hell, we had covert ops in Iraq many months before the start of this war. I'm sure they were dressin in their military best. Former US servicemen have admitted to to being ordered to start the oil fires in Gulf War 1, and everyone is suprised Saddam didn't start them in this war. Wiat we had a few, but those were in areas that were hit by either artillery or air strikes...but we will still blame Saddam. Just like we blame him when we kill civilians, for creating the situation that puts them in harms way. Just like we tried to blame France for causing this war for not backing our resolution for war.
I could go on...but what is the point. You will of course twist this into me being a communist nazi saddam lover that should be tried for treason or some other equally ridiculous and invalid remark.
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