8 Miles Eminem movie: your opinions?

[Fox in the Snow]

Mine: surprisingly, I actually liked a movie (3 stars out of five ), gritty working class guy story, not unlike British sink kitchen dramas, but laced with numerous profanities and rap.. Eminem is acting way better then expected, actually he was quite a natural in playing Detroit white trash & working class hero guy... Black Detroit teens & Eminem no-good mom by Kim Bassinger, living in trailer, Eminem playing himself, ghostly semi-ruins of Detroit, where Blacks are surviving post-industrial society with lion share of jobs available 30 years ago moving out to China or Latin America... all of this, all this Detroit pulp came out without fakeness, quite real, at least I enjoyed a movie, which I got to see only because my 16-year-old nephew asked me to drive him to it... Go figure... I thought I hated this Slim Shady motherf***er, yet...
Isn't he getting our sympathy & tuff & vulnerable at the same time in a way, kind of Robert Mitchum circa 2002?
Interestingly, Eminem in the middle of a movie rapped in defence of Black gay man, while standing in line for his car factory food van. Well, at least Eminem trying to do right for his past wrongs...
Now I understand why Chris from AO liked Eminem...
Now what, I ought to borrow Eminem CDs from my nephew? Why not?
Is Eminem a Detroit working class hero, not totally unlike Moz as an Mancurian proletarian hero?
Even some of Eminem raps sounded for me not unlike emotional outporing of another Detroit white trash white dude, Stooges frontman, Iggy Pop???
Opinions? Liked & Disliked & Don't care at all?

 

[Mindy]

wait a minute! you're telling me eminem is good at pretending to be white trash? honey, he aint pretending.

hearing people compare my lord, my god, morrissey, to eminem is enough to make a shy, bald buddhist reflect and plan a mass murder. not that i'm bald.

other than the fact that they both come from working class backgrounds and are popstars (and perhaps their ambiguous sexuality, since if feminem aint a closeted gay, my gaydar needs a tuneup), they have nothing in common. you know why? because most morrissey and smiths fans are halfway intelligent people who channel their angst into constructive outlets (or no outlet at all - which doesn't hurt anybody). eminem, conversely, has a lot of retarded fans. the man sings about violence to homosexuals and women. while morrissey did some posturing with nationalistic imagery, it was never hate-filled and it was always tongue-in-cheek. all those people who insist eminem is the same way are fooling themselves. the man is a bigot. and he's marginally talented as well.

now granted, the movie may be all right, but i refuse to have any of my money go to that asshole. i'm skipping this one.

p.s. those people who think that eminem is edgy and controversial are fooling themselves. eminem is a puppet of the industry if ever there was one, cashing in on the angry teen phenomena. the day he pulls a kurt cobain will be a happy day for me indeed - if only because i will no longer hear his annoying, whiney-ass voice bitching about how he is so controversial and how fame aint what it's cracked up to be. eminem: go f*** yourself.

> Mine: surprisingly, I actually liked a movie (3 stars out of five ),
> gritty working class guy story, not unlike British sink kitchen dramas,
> but laced with numerous profanities and rap.. Eminem is acting way
> better then expected, actually he was quite a natural in playing Detroit
> white trash & working class hero guy... Black Detroit teens &
> Eminem no-good mom by Kim Bassinger, living in trailer, Eminem playing
> himself, ghostly semi-ruins of Detroit, where Blacks are surviving
> post-industrial society with lion share of jobs available 30 years ago
> moving out to China or Latin America... all of this, all this Detroit pulp
> came out without fakeness, quite real, at least I enjoyed a movie, which I
> got to see only because my 16-year-old nephew asked me to drive him to
> it... Go figure... I thought I hated this Slim Shady motherf***er, yet...
> Isn't he getting our sympathy & tuff & vulnerable at the same time
> in a way, kind of Robert Mitchum circa 2002?
> Interestingly, Eminem in the middle of a movie rapped in defence of Black
> gay man, while standing in line for his car factory food van. Well, at
> least Eminem trying to do right for his past wrongs...
> Now I understand why Chris from AO liked Eminem...
> Now what, I ought to borrow Eminem CDs from my nephew? Why not?
> Is Eminem a Detroit working class hero, not totally unlike Moz as an
> Mancurian proletarian hero?
> Even some of Eminem raps sounded for me not unlike emotional outporing of
> another Detroit white trash white dude, Stooges frontman, Iggy Pop???
> Opinions? Liked & Disliked & Don't care at all?

 

[Fox in the Snow]

Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

> wait a minute! you're telling me eminem is good at pretending to be white
> trash? honey, he aint pretending.

> hearing people compare my lord, my god, morrissey, to eminem is enough to
> make a shy, bald buddhist reflect and plan a mass murder. not that i'm
> bald.

> other than the fact that they both come from working class backgrounds and
> are popstars (and perhaps their ambiguous sexuality, since if feminem aint
> a closeted gay, my gaydar needs a tuneup), they have nothing in common.
> you know why? because most morrissey and smiths fans are halfway
> intelligent people who channel their angst into constructive outlets (or
> no outlet at all - which doesn't hurt anybody). eminem, conversely, has a
> lot of retarded fans. the man sings about violence to homosexuals and
> women. while morrissey did some posturing with nationalistic imagery, it
> was never hate-filled and it was always tongue-in-cheek. all those people
> who insist eminem is the same way are fooling themselves. the man is a
> bigot. and he's marginally talented as well.

> now granted, the movie may be all right, but i refuse to have any of my
> money go to that asshole. i'm skipping this one.

> p.s. those people who think that eminem is edgy and controversial are
> fooling themselves. eminem is a puppet of the industry if ever there was
> one, cashing in on the angry teen phenomena. the day he pulls a kurt
> cobain will be a happy day for me indeed - if only because i will no
> longer hear his annoying, whiney-ass voice bitching about how he is so
> controversial and how fame aint what it's cracked up to be. eminem: go
> f*** yourself.

Mindy, how could you totally reject a movie, without actually watching it???
Talk about close-mindedness.... Some Republican would say: why read Isherwood or Edmund White or Kushnir (Angels In America Dramatist): those guys are gay, therefore they are immoral, therefore I don't want to give those sodomites any part of my precious money... Sounds familiar to you?

Believe me, this movie is not Jurassic Park 2 or Die Hard 3. This movie is in a sense similar to movies like Sid and Nancy and Trainspotting... This movie is about real life of poor America, where there are no trust funds and credit cards, and people live from paycheck to paycheck...

Also, lion share of good acting belongs to young Black actors who are recreating a realistic Detroit mostly Black urban youth rap scene... I'm not saying Eminem must be adored or even listened too, I'm just saying, "don't shoot the messenger" of social disparity and urban plight here at US... And it is really a cheap shot to blame Eminem for being born indeed in a trailer park... What a double standards are displayed here: no one is blaming Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode for being girlfriend-beating junkie asshole for the good part of 90s, or Wynona Ryder for being a drug-blitzed shoplifter, 'cause those peoples are "our kind" of peoples, who were born "on the right side of the tracks"... "Free Wynona", this slogan is popular at artsy bars & gay spots at West Hollywood, but why Wynona Horowitz-Ryder is entitled for Betty Ford clinic and middle-class peoples compassion for stealing $5000 worth of merchandise, while your average Black woman from South-Central would get 3 to 5 years of jailhouse for stealing $100 of groceries, or, if it is a third strike, she could get a life in prison... Why Downey Jr gets all our support, job offers after being released from his resort-like "prison" for affluent whites, while a Black or Latino or White redneck repeated drug-offender with GED and no Hollywood grooming could for sure be reviled as a dangerous criminal, a threat to society, a lunchmeat for US judicial system... with all possibilities to be beaten by guards or fellow inmates at "regular" prison, or perhaps being gang-raped and infected with HIV there...

You call all those Eminem-listening white working class kids a "retarded fans". I may not necessarily like or admire those kids, but I would abstain from those kind of labels... After all, some British aristocrats of "blue blood" could call Irish kid Morrissey and his Manchester 80s scene a "retarded bunch of paddies", just using this same kind of snobbishness... "who is who at acme social ladder". As Eminem courageously raps at "battle of the rappers" episode, yes, I'm a white trash, and my mom is a whore, and I work at a factory for shitty wages, so tell me something about myself that I didn't say already... and I'm damn proud who I am... cause I want to do better, way better in life, and yet save my face and my pride. Not exactly that, but the essense was something like that... A lot of peoples (like art critics and Electra music company big cheese) hated MC5 (Motor City 5) and Stooges (James Osterberg-Iggy Pop, brothers Ashetons, Dave Alexander) at 60s for being exactly like Eminem is at 2002, a white trash kids, who are messengers of their plight and who are bright and ambitious and have to say a thing or two to the ruling classes of America, and some of those things are not pleasant at all...

Homophobic Eminem song.. bad... Racist Moz song Bengali In Platforms: ok?
No one is without sin... Question is, are peoples learned from their mistakes, did they improved... (Eminem is rapping in defence of Black gay guy at this movie... Supposedly as an answer to his critics... )

Eminem (like Iggy Pop) was born a white trash, so what, are you denying him a room for spiritual growth and improvement?

etc...

Mindy, give this movie a shot, after all, if you dislike this movie, you could always jump to another hall at acme cineplex with another movie under shadow of darkness...

Speaking about "gaydar": Eminem seems to me a straight dude, but stuntsmen from Jackass movie... oh, most of those guy are either bi or gay... (Speaking about X-rayed toy car in anus episode, nipple torture, shrimps in private parts shark-teasing, S&M stuff which is borderline sick... Oh, here I better to stop... Jee, target audience of this 'Jackass' movie are Mad-magazine reading 12 or 13-year-olds, but those stuntsmen guys could as well SLIGHTLY repackage their act and show this John Waters-like camp homoerotic-laced grossout smartpants "give me pain" stupidity at some art house place at Castro Street...

Also: stay away from god-awful Jerry Seinfield movie: "The Comedian". One word for this self-satisfied schmuck: time to shut up, you are oversaturated and spent, not that if anything wrong with that!

Again my recent movie trips:
Red Dragon (*)
8 Miles (***1/2)
Jackass (***)
Seinfeld Comedian (a dog)

 

[Mindy]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

i don't see enough movies to justify spending 9 dollars on one i don't want to see. i wasn't even commenting really on his film, other than to say that it isn't a stretch for him to play white trash because he is white trash. we've established that as fact. that wasn't a derogatory statement at all. furthermore, i have read many reviews of the movie. many of them seem to be pandering, but i have read some from unbiased sources that i trust that say that, while not a terrible movie, it is not the gem some people are trying to pass it off as. rather, people are so amazed that it isn't terrible, that they are singing its praises. it's like saying, it's not shitty - for it's godforsaken genre that is! (that genre being a pop star's masturbatory homage unto himself.)

and oh yeah, eminem really is a local boy done good, isnt he? he champions a gay black dude in his movie, you say? good lord, give this boy a nobel peace prize! what has he done in real life?! NOTHING. oh yeah, he carries around a gun and goes to clubs and gets in fights. wow, he is such a tremendous role model. i hope i have 8 kids just like him.

and sid vicious was a f***ing nonce - kinda like eminem. although sid probably had more talent. trainspotting, furthermore, is a brilliant, brilliant film. it transcends its subject matter. it isn't just about junkies. it's a classic of modern day existentialism. maybe one could say that eminem is an existential figure - a self-made man (although i'd say he's an industry-made man), but there is no way in hell his pathetic-ass story could ever touch trainspotting.

i am so sure the movie is about real life in poor america. because you know all poor white kids in america turn into crappy rappers. and i like how you imply that just because i don't live paycheck to paycheck, i must have a trustfund or something. furthermore, eminem is hardly a messenger of social problems. as far as i can tell, most of his songs are entirely self-absorbed odes to himself or rants against his whore mom and ex-wife. yes, occasionally he has something political to say, but it's usually somehow related to the controversy he stirs up (as pathetic as it is).

as for the free winona shirts, have you ever heard of irony? i own one of them. they're sold out of this hollywood hole in the wall shop by this guy who has been making free-celebrities-behaving-badly shirts for many years. my interpretation of the shirts is that celebs don't deserve special treatment, but, by the same token, they deserve fair treatment. the free winona shirts are a comment on the media's crucifixion of celebrities who make mistakes - how the media loves to build people up and then tear them down. (hmm, wonder when eminem's day will come...) in short, i think winona is a stupid bitch for doing what she did, but i also think that the media circus surrounding it was a bit ridiculous. i think she deserves to be punished for her crimes, but not to have all this hoopla surrounding her. and it is ridiculous. everyone knows that she will get a far lighter sentence than a poor black person in the same situation. this is wrong, but the media also contributes to the court's leniency in dealing with her. the shirts do not condone this discrepency in the treatment of people within different social strata. rather, it satirizes it.

and bengali in platforms does not have to be read as a racist song. i always considered it to be making fun of the kind of people who actually would say such things as "shelve your western plans" and "it's hard enough when you belong here." moz is a smart person. it seems doubtful to me that he would actually hold truly racist sentiments. it seemed to me a sympathy song, making fun of the truly racist people.

eminem, on the other hand, actually simulates the sounds of gay sex on his albums. his songs are so full of hate. it's asinine to think that he's entirely joking. in fact, i bet he's laughing now about how people think that just because there's a gay black dude in his movie, he must love the blacks and the queers.

additionally, at least iggy pop's music says something about life. it seems to me all three of eminem's albums have been exactly the same shit over and over again. "look at me. i'm so hard. i'm real. i come from a tough neighborhood and my wife and momma are hos. respect me, even though i hate women and gays. i am so controversial. bla bla bla." it's like, get over yourself, asshole.

and last time i checked, i never said that jackass wasn't homoerotic. in fact, i never mentioned jackass. but eminem sure is a homophobe, and most homophobes are secretly gay. it's a strange fact of life. the man shaves his chest and wears overalls with nothing underneath. that screams gay to me (albeit, most gay men have better dress sense, but we must make amends for eminem's white trash background after all).

 

[Fox in the Snow]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

> i don't see enough movies to justify spending 9 dollars on one i don't
> want to see. i wasn't even commenting really on his film, other than to
> say that it isn't a stretch for him to play white trash because he is
> white trash. we've established that as fact. that wasn't a derogatory
> statement at all. furthermore, i have read many reviews of the movie. many
> of them seem to be pandering, but i have read some from unbiased sources
> that i trust that say that, while not a terrible movie, it is not the gem
> some people are trying to pass it off as. rather, people are so amazed
> that it isn't terrible, that they are singing its praises. it's like
> saying, it's not shitty - for it's godforsaken genre that is! (that genre
> being a pop star's masturbatory homage unto himself.)

> and oh yeah, eminem really is a local boy done good, isnt he? he champions
> a gay black dude in his movie, you say? good lord, give this boy a nobel
> peace prize! what has he done in real life?! NOTHING. oh yeah, he carries
> around a gun and goes to clubs and gets in fights. wow, he is such a
> tremendous role model. i hope i have 8 kids just like him.

> and sid vicious was a f***ing nonce - kinda like eminem. although sid
> probably had more talent. trainspotting, furthermore, is a brilliant,
> brilliant film. it transcends its subject matter. it isn't just about
> junkies. it's a classic of modern day existentialism. maybe one could say
> that eminem is an existential figure - a self-made man (although i'd say
> he's an industry-made man), but there is no way in hell his pathetic-ass
> story could ever touch trainspotting.

> i am so sure the movie is about real life in poor america. because you
> know all poor white kids in america turn into crappy rappers. and i like
> how you imply that just because i don't live paycheck to paycheck, i must
> have a trustfund or something. furthermore, eminem is hardly a messenger
> of social problems. as far as i can tell, most of his songs are entirely
> self-absorbed odes to himself or rants against his whore mom and ex-wife.
> yes, occasionally he has something political to say, but it's usually
> somehow related to the controversy he stirs up (as pathetic as it is).

> as for the free winona shirts, have you ever heard of irony? i own one of
> them. they're sold out of this hollywood hole in the wall shop by this guy
> who has been making free-celebrities-behaving-badly shirts for many years.
> my interpretation of the shirts is that celebs don't deserve special
> treatment, but, by the same token, they deserve fair treatment. the free
> winona shirts are a comment on the media's crucifixion of celebrities who
> make mistakes - how the media loves to build people up and then tear them
> down. (hmm, wonder when eminem's day will come...) in short, i think
> winona is a stupid bitch for doing what she did, but i also think that the
> media circus surrounding it was a bit ridiculous. i think she deserves to
> be punished for her crimes, but not to have all this hoopla surrounding
> her. and it is ridiculous. everyone knows that she will get a far lighter
> sentence than a poor black person in the same situation. this is wrong,
> but the media also contributes to the court's leniency in dealing with
> her. the shirts do not condone this discrepency in the treatment of people
> within different social strata. rather, it satirizes it.

> and bengali in platforms does not have to be read as a racist song. i
> always considered it to be making fun of the kind of people who actually
> would say such things as "shelve your western plans" and
> "it's hard enough when you belong here." moz is a smart person.
> it seems doubtful to me that he would actually hold truly racist
> sentiments. it seemed to me a sympathy song, making fun of the truly
> racist people.

> eminem, on the other hand, actually simulates the sounds of gay sex on his
> albums. his songs are so full of hate. it's asinine to think that he's
> entirely joking. in fact, i bet he's laughing now about how people think
> that just because there's a gay black dude in his movie, he must love the
> blacks and the queers.

> additionally, at least iggy pop's music says something about life. it
> seems to me all three of eminem's albums have been exactly the same shit
> over and over again. "look at me. i'm so hard. i'm real. i come from
> a tough neighborhood and my wife and momma are hos. respect me, even
> though i hate women and gays. i am so controversial. bla bla bla."
> it's like, get over yourself, asshole.

> and last time i checked, i never said that jackass wasn't homoerotic. in
> fact, i never mentioned jackass. but eminem sure is a homophobe, and most
> homophobes are secretly gay. it's a strange fact of life. the man shaves
> his chest and wears overalls with nothing underneath. that screams gay to
> me (albeit, most gay men have better dress sense, but we must make amends
> for eminem's white trash background after all).

Oh, Mindy, I always sneak to the movies, paying for one, and actually watching 2 or sometimes three... I know, I'm bad, call me a cheapskate... LOL
So my advice: go to movie you really like (like new Todd Haynes movie or something with Gwyneth Paltrow etc...), then, after it's over, sneak to 8.5 miles... After all, if 8.5 miles is indeed crap, you would leave in 5 minutes, so why to be so afraid to watch movie yourself instead of trusting anonymous reviewers?

Also, your logic is indeed strange: you are admiring British realistic movies like Trainspotting 'cause they are about British lads, yet you are dismissing movie about American Detroit working class kids just like that?

Of course, it is your opinion and your right, to like what you like... Actually, I'm sick and tired of American Hollywood movies lying to me, feeding me 99 cents candies... I just sensed that 8.5 miles is a little gritty movie about real peoples at the bottom of society, "outside of society", as Patti Smith sang, and Eminem is indeed a real-life "rock-n-roll n*****", again quoting that same Patti Smith song... Again, maybe I got cheated and hoodwinked at this one, who knows, my opinion is subjective by definition... Oh, well, I wonder how I will work tomorrow (or actially today...) Oh, well...

 

[Theprofessorandmaryann]

Re: I wouldn't go near any theatre showing *that* movie

 

[shrinktofit]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

You people are unemployed aren't you? I mean writing huge messages about nothing, when it's supposed to be a start of a working day in England?

 

[Mindy]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

1) i hate gwyneth paltrow

2) i don't like trainspotting because it is british and dislike 8 mile because it is about americans

3) eminem is not "real" people - he is a manufactured popstar who just whines and bitches - the way i look at it, 8 mile is a pathetic attempt by eminem to reach an even wider, more mainstream audience. in other words, it's just him selling out on an even grander scale - more proof he's a big fat fake.

> Oh, Mindy, I always sneak to the movies, paying for one, and actually
> watching 2 or sometimes three... I know, I'm bad, call me a
> cheapskate... LOL
> So my advice: go to movie you really like (like new Todd Haynes movie or
> something with Gwyneth Paltrow etc...), then, after it's over, sneak to
> 8.5 miles... After all, if 8.5 miles is indeed crap, you would leave in 5
> minutes, so why to be so afraid to watch movie yourself instead of
> trusting anonymous reviewers?

> Also, your logic is indeed strange: you are admiring British realistic
> movies like Trainspotting 'cause they are about British lads, yet you are
> dismissing movie about American Detroit working class kids just like that?

> Of course, it is your opinion and your right, to like what you like...
> Actually, I'm sick and tired of American Hollywood movies lying to me,
> feeding me 99 cents candies... I just sensed that 8.5 miles is a little
> gritty movie about real peoples at the bottom of society, "outside of
> society", as Patti Smith sang, and Eminem is indeed a real-life
> "rock-n-roll n*****", again quoting that same Patti Smith
> song... Again, maybe I got cheated and hoodwinked at this one, who knows,
> my opinion is subjective by definition... Oh, well, I wonder how I will
> work tomorrow (or actially today...) Oh, well...

 

[Mindy]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

i am american and last night, i couldn't sleep.

> You people are unemployed aren't you? I mean writing huge messages about
> nothing, when it's supposed to be a start of a working day in England?

 

[david]

bengali in platfroms is sympathetc...not racist

 

[An observer]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

Hello again Fox,

I thought I'd jump in to suggest that you shouldn't be fooled by all this working-class stuff. Mainstream American movies have, almost since the beginning of Hollywood, made films about against-all-odds types trying to work their way up. "Rocky" and "West Side Story" are two that spring to mind instantly, and I'm sure you can think of plenty of others. Underdogs are pure gold in Hollywood, and that's precisely why a film like "Eight Mile" should be seen not as something out of the British "kitchen sink" tradition but as a cynical manipulation of "real", "gritty" working-class people. Think about the scenes in "Barton Fink" where they're planning out the wrestling movie!

I'd love to see a well-written drama about working-class kids from Detroit, but I'll pass on watching a glorified open-mic contest starring a mediocrity who doesn't need any more money or attention. "Eight Mile" may not be any worse than any of the other awful Hollywood films released this year, but it's certainly no better.

I'm more inclined toward Mindy's opinion about Eminem's music, though I admit that I don't know as much about that. I am a bit of a film fan, though, and I can tell you that "Eight Mile" reeks of formula. It's a marketer's wet dream, not the genuine complaints of a working-class artist like Shelagh Delaney. I would place "Eight Mile" among such passionate working-class cries of outrage like "Fame", "Beat Street" and "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo."

Also, I don't think "Trainspotting" qualifies as "realism", do you? Neither the subject-matter or Danny Boyle's narrative style fits that description. Mike Leigh, on the other hand, despite some curious turns in his stories, is probably the best example of "realistic, working class" films being made in England or anywhere else.

 

[Mindy]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

finally someone with sense.

i agree with you completely, by the way, about trainspotting. trainspotting isnt about your typical low class scottish people. it's about a very small subculture. but the philosophy behind it speaks to me and i think can be applied to anyone's life.

> Hello again Fox,

> I thought I'd jump in to suggest that you shouldn't be fooled by all this
> working-class stuff. Mainstream American movies have, almost since the
> beginning of Hollywood, made films about against-all-odds types trying to
> work their way up. "Rocky" and "West Side Story" are
> two that spring to mind instantly, and I'm sure you can think of plenty of
> others. Underdogs are pure gold in Hollywood, and that's precisely why a
> film like "Eight Mile" should be seen not as something out of
> the British "kitchen sink" tradition but as a cynical
> manipulation of "real", "gritty" working-class people.
> Think about the scenes in "Barton Fink" where they're planning
> out the wrestling movie!

> I'd love to see a well-written drama about working-class kids from
> Detroit, but I'll pass on watching a glorified open-mic contest starring a
> mediocrity who doesn't need any more money or attention. "Eight
> Mile" may not be any worse than any of the other awful Hollywood
> films released this year, but it's certainly no better.

> I'm more inclined toward Mindy's opinion about Eminem's music, though I
> admit that I don't know as much about that. I am a bit of a film fan,
> though, and I can tell you that "Eight Mile" reeks of formula.
> It's a marketer's wet dream, not the genuine complaints of a working-class
> artist like Shelagh Delaney. I would place "Eight Mile" among
> such passionate working-class cries of outrage like "Fame",
> "Beat Street" and "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo."

> Also, I don't think "Trainspotting" qualifies as
> "realism", do you? Neither the subject-matter or Danny Boyle's
> narrative style fits that description. Mike Leigh, on the other hand,
> despite some curious turns in his stories, is probably the best example of
> "realistic, working class" films being made in England or
> anywhere else.

 

[Fox in The Snow]

Re: Eminem at least deserves to be seen first, then judged!

> You people are unemployed aren't you? I mean writing huge messages about
> nothing, when it's supposed to be a start of a working day in England?
God forbid, I'm a sovereign American, not Her Majesty Queen Royal British subject!
So it was around 2AM in Los Angeles, California... Alas, I work... Sigh...

 

[Fox in The Snow]

Eminem can act, unlike Madonna... LOL

> Hello again Fox,
Hi, Observer.

> I thought I'd jump in to suggest that you shouldn't be fooled by all this
> working-class stuff. Mainstream American movies have, almost since the
> beginning of Hollywood, made films about against-all-odds types trying to
> work their way up. "Rocky" and "West Side Story" are
> two that spring to mind instantly, and I'm sure you can think of plenty of
> others. Underdogs are pure gold in Hollywood, and that's precisely why a
> film like "Eight Mile" should be seen not as something out of
> the British "kitchen sink" tradition but as a cynical
> manipulation of "real", "gritty" working-class people.
> Think about the scenes in "Barton Fink" where they're planning
> out the wrestling movie!

My expectations out of average American major studio movie are so low, that any kind of a half-decent movie, like 8 miles would be appreciated... LOL

Yes, 8.5 miles maybe is formulaic American-style (good guy against the cruel world), yet I can not help but recognize very spirited and sincere acting by Eminem, who may or may not playing himself...
Also, quite a few of young Black actors, playing Eminem posse, gave their best...

> I'd love to see a well-written drama about working-class kids from
> Detroit, but I'll pass on watching a glorified open-mic contest starring a
> mediocrity who doesn't need any more money or attention. "Eight
> Mile" may not be any worse than any of the other awful Hollywood
> films released this year, but it's certainly no better.

Well, in a sense, what is the difference between Beatnick open mike contests at 50s and rap contests of today at "bad" part of town... Obviously, not a level of poetic sincerity or a level of urge to express themselves, but mostly class origins of participants... College-bound bohemian Jewish and Catholic white kids (Beatnicks) versus Urban Poor, mostly black or brown-skinned (rappers)... Eight Miles may be formulaic in a way, but, IMHO, it is well above average Hollywood pulp at least by the value of heart-felt acting of those guys...

> I'm more inclined toward Mindy's opinion about Eminem's music, though I
> admit that I don't know as much about that. I am a bit of a film fan,
> though, and I can tell you that "Eight Mile" reeks of formula.
> It's a marketer's wet dream, not the genuine complaints of a working-class
> artist like Shelagh Delaney. I would place "Eight Mile" among
> such passionate working-class cries of outrage like "Fame",
> "Beat Street" and "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo."

Well, Moz was not above using some "formula" thingie himself, didn't he?

> Also, I don't think "Trainspotting" qualifies as
> "realism", do you? Neither the subject-matter or Danny Boyle's
> narrative style fits that description. Mike Leigh, on the other hand,
> despite some curious turns in his stories, is probably the best example of
> "realistic, working class" films being made in England or
> anywhere else.

Yes, I like Mike Leigh movies... I was quite impressed by depressingly dark 'Naked', for starters... I'm not arguing that 8 Miles is up to the level of world cinema masters, it is definitely NOT, the same way as Spielberg Schindler's List was also formulaic, even if well-intended and perhaps a noble try of commersial Jaws and Jurassic Park creator to pay respect to Holocaust and make a REAL movie for adults... Schiendler's List was at best a middle of the road movie by artistic merit, yet Hollywood got a lavish praise for at least trying to do right for once or twice...

I just expressed my opinion, that this movie somehow managed to be both Hollywood-produced and sincere, a rarity those days... As of Eminem "rap", I'm afraid we both are of certain age, when our teenage worries and concerns are distant memories, sometimes pink-colored memories (humans tend to forget the unpleasant and remember the good staff in their lifes)... So, in a sense, for a teenager it is much easier relate to Eminem rap, then for 30-year-old or even for 24-year-old... Think about that, adults have a liberty to find jobs they really like and comfortable with, scene they like, peoples to befriend... While teens are stack in school environment with peoples they may hate, with parents & relatives, who don't understand them etc... Yes, Eminem may be too straightforward, too rude, too Neanderthal to us, yet his rap is a reflection of a real teenage life circa 2002... The one thing is clear, this guy has something to say, he is not a market teenage cash machine creation, and even if he partially is, Marshall Mathers CAN ACT, unlike say Madonna...

Well, I'm spent for today...
Cheers, Observer, just curious, are you British or American?

Fox

 

[Fox in The Snow]

Inner teenager needs to be kicked!

> 1) i hate gwyneth paltrow

i like Gwyneth, again it is all subjective feelings...

I also like Minnie Driver... Tori Amos... Barbarella... Tom Cruise... any more girls? Some girls are bigger then other...

> 2) i don't like trainspotting because it is british and dislike 8 mile
> because it is about americans
> 3) eminem is not "real" people - he is a manufactured popstar
> who just whines and bitches - the way i look at it, 8 mile is a pathetic
> attempt by eminem to reach an even wider, more mainstream audience. in
> other words, it's just him selling out on an even grander scale - more
> proof he's a big fat fake.

JMHO, Trainspotting was as much a formula movie, as 8 Miles
Trainspotting formula: disafected pissed off by unfair evil capitalist society kids are getting high and nasty, while listening to Iggy Pop and Ramones... whining how world is treating them unfairly, getting pissed, puking all over the toilet seat and getting pregnant... C'mon, there are about a dozen movies by this formula, the difference is Trainspotting was the most talented of the banch... Wasn't even great Lou Reed inventing his infamous formula of a disaffected intellectual, proclaiming his so called "f***** junkie bum trip" in search of life truths... And don't get me started talking about Mozzer formula recepies, doesn't he cultivate this certain kind of person 24/7?! You may like Mozzer formula better then Eminem formula, and so do I... But formula, nonetheless, damn it, Mindy, open your mind... Yes, Eminem does not speak incomprehensible Scottish English, yet he is closer to us, then exotic Mancurians or Liverpooleans, he is from the same Motor City as Motown, he is one of us, Americans, and he is singing about our shit, do we like him to do it or not... At least Eminem in his cooperation with Doctor Dre, who is a damn potent good rapper, is creating a bridge between black and white, so Eminem formula may not be intentionally evil, he is both simple and complex, nightmare of a hi-school teech and a dream of a tooth-bucket 15-y-o teenage girl, he is a golden money shower for a Hollywood executive and a voice for the voiceless kids in projects and trailer parks... If the fact of somebody making big bucks makes him/her a "sellout", then the only "honest" peoples with "integrity" intact are losers playing their guitars in their bedrooms or in some local shitty indie cafe before a partisan crowd of a twelve peoples plus a local unemployed drunk plus a bouncer... Jim Morrison and Beatles were megasuccessful, but hey, they never were a sellouts... Is Eminem a sellout? It is a very isoteric question, there is a joke about some 30-something artsy-shmartsy high moralist never do-well musician who proudly proclaimed in tight circle of his indie buddies at some dive: "I never sold out, never!" Then one of his friends, the cruel one, caustically asked: "But did at least somebody tried to buy you?" LOL
Well, if Eminem is a sell-out, he definitely does it "his own way", not unlike every major money-making artist, including you know who... Art must sell, otherwise artist audience would consist of his/her mom, lover and family bull-terrier... Even we, a commoners, have to sell ouselves every mo-fo moment of our wretched life: job interview, a date, getting laid, getting a discount airline ticket, getting popular at mozboard by parroting majority opinions et cetera, et cetera... Life is a bitch...

On this sour note, I would finish, while my 15-year-old nephew listenin' Marshall Mathers on my stereo at the background... Maybe I have to take off the comp and kick a 'lil brat ass... Wink, wink... Or maybe 15-year-old nephew is in reality my own inner teenager???

 

[Mindy]

Re: Inner teenager needs to be kicked!

i think gwyneth is severely overrated. she does a passable british accent, makes a lot of shit and/or overrated films. minnie driver is the same, except her accent is real and she is not as annoying. tori amos: not my style, but can't complain about her. barbarella: i always did like jane fonda. don't get me started on my hatred for tom cruise (although, of late, he has slightly redeemed himself. still, what kind of loser would choose penelope cruz who defines the word mediocre over the gorgeous, talented, funny, sweet, intelligent nicole kidman?)

and trainspotting is not formulaic. it is obvious that you have never read the book. they were upset by capitalist society? really? well that could certainly be part of it, but don't you think it goes a little deeper? i think they were more pissed off by intellectual stagnancy. the movie doesnt speak for a large cross-section of people literally, but it is full of meaning. these people have something fundamentally wrong with them in their hearts and minds and they are searching for something to make them whole. perhaps that is a theme that has been done before, but it has seldom been done with such humour, poignancy, and intelligence. some sanitized story about a loser white boy who becomes a rapper is hardly redemption on a grand scale. come on. you can't tell me that rocky-esque piece of crap isn't extremely formulaic. the underdog genre is one of the most pathetic. it is entirely masturbatory and coldly calculated to appeal to the masses of similar losers with nothing to look forward to in life.

eminem does not speak to me. i am from a lower middle class family. my father has a white-collar job, but we still live very simply. everything i have now, i had to work for or i will be paying for later (scholarships and loans). i have had a lot of shitty things happen in my life and i don't bitch and moan about it like a little crybaby. my life hasn't been extremely hard, but i can guarantee, if i ever became famous (doubtful), i wouldn't be making masturbatory odes to myself. i'd be trying to give back and enrich the lives of others. in fact, i plan to try to do that stuff without becoming famous. in other words, eminem is a pathetic loser who will never speak to people like me. yeah, maybe he had a sad life and maybe he had to work hard (down on his knees, blowing dre) to get where he is today, but what has he done for society? oh yeah, he writes hate-filled songs and carries guns into clubs and otherwise acts like a thug.

do you realise that your posts are unintentionally humorous as you use colorful phrases that can be easily misconstrued? i dont mean to make fun of other people's lack of proficiency in the english language as it may not be their mother tongue - but your saying eminem is a "golden money shower" made me laugh my ass off. maybe i just have a sick mind.

and they are mancunians and liverpudlians or mancs and scousers.

furthermore, eminem is a sellout because he always bitches about popstars when he f***ing well is one. morrissey does similar, but he isn't hypocritical about it. he doesn't go pimping himself out on the MTV. he doesn't cowtow to the record industries or the whims of 14 year old fans (who in addition to buying his albums, also keep such musical luminaries as avril lavigne and limp bizkit in business).

i take extreme offense at your implication that i try to champion popular opinion at the board. to quote a brand new morrissey song "and no regime can buy or sell me..."

now please go back to alternately fellating lou reed and eminem. thanks!

> Trainspotting formula: disafected pissed off by unfair evil capitalist
> society kids are getting high and nasty, while listening to Iggy Pop and
> Ramones... whining how world is treating them unfairly, getting pissed,
> puking all over the toilet seat and getting pregnant... C'mon, there are
> about a dozen movies by this formula, the difference is Trainspotting was
> the most talented of the banch... Wasn't even great Lou Reed inventing his
> infamous formula of a disaffected intellectual, proclaiming his so called
> "f***** junkie bum trip" in search of life truths... And don't
> get me started talking about Mozzer formula recepies, doesn't he cultivate
> this certain kind of person 24/7?! You may like Mozzer formula better then
> Eminem formula, and so do I... But formula, nonetheless, damn it, Mindy,
> open your mind... Yes, Eminem does not speak incomprehensible Scottish
> English, yet he is closer to us, then exotic Mancurians or Liverpooleans,
> he is from the same Motor City as Motown, he is one of us, Americans, and
> he is singing about our shit, do we like him to do it or not... At least
> Eminem in his cooperation with Doctor Dre, who is a damn potent good
> rapper, is creating a bridge between black and white, so Eminem formula
> may not be intentionally evil, he is both simple and complex, nightmare of
> a hi-school teech and a dream of a tooth-bucket 15-y-o teenage girl, he is
> a golden money shower for a Hollywood executive and a voice for the
> voiceless kids in projects and trailer parks... If the fact of somebody
> making big bucks makes him/her a "sellout", then the only
> "honest" peoples with "integrity" intact are losers
> playing their guitars in their bedrooms or in some local shitty indie cafe
> before a partisan crowd of a twelve peoples plus a local unemployed drunk
> plus a bouncer... Jim Morrison and Beatles were megasuccessful, but hey,
> they never were a sellouts... Is Eminem a sellout? It is a very isoteric
> question, there is a joke about some 30-something artsy-shmartsy high
> moralist never do-well musician who proudly proclaimed in tight circle of
> his indie buddies at some dive: "I never sold out, never!" Then
> one of his friends, the cruel one, caustically asked: "But did at
> least somebody tried to buy you?" LOL
> Well, if Eminem is a sell-out, he definitely does it "his own
> way", not unlike every major money-making artist, including you know
> who... Art must sell, otherwise artist audience would consist of his/her
> mom, lover and family bull-terrier... Even we, a commoners, have to sell
> ouselves every mo-fo moment of our wretched life: job interview, a date,
> getting laid, getting a discount airline ticket, getting popular at
> mozboard by parroting majority opinions et cetera, et cetera... Life is a
> bitch...

> On this sour note, I would finish, while my 15-year-old nephew listenin'
> Marshall Mathers on my stereo at the background... Maybe I have to take
> off the comp and kick a 'lil brat ass... Wink, wink... Or maybe
> 15-year-old nephew is in reality my own inner teenager???

 

[Fox in The Snow]

Kicking my inner teen... Mindy, are you mad at me?

> i think gwyneth is severely overrated. she does a passable british accent,
> makes a lot of shit and/or overrated films. minnie driver is the same,
> except her accent is real and she is not as annoying. tori amos: not my
> style, but can't complain about her. barbarella: i always did like jane
> fonda. don't get me started on my hatred for tom cruise (although, of
> late, he has slightly redeemed himself. still, what kind of loser would
> choose penelope cruz who defines the word mediocre over the gorgeous,
> talented, funny, sweet, intelligent nicole kidman?)

Oh my, I always hated Nicole Kidman! What a sleep-for-success, fake-marry-a-gifted-but-insecure-gay-guy Aussie kangaroo bitch... LOL Girl, the only thing we have in common, we both like Jane "Hanoi" Fonda...

Do you believe Tom Cruise actually sleeps with "penelope cruz"... You make me laughing... Remember Rock Hudson, Monty Cliff, Anthony Perkins...? They were "married" by Hollywood studio honchos too for good PR...

> and trainspotting is not formulaic. it is obvious that you have never read
> the book. they were upset by capitalist society? really? well that could
> certainly be part of it, but don't you think it goes a little deeper? i
> think they were more pissed off by intellectual stagnancy. the movie
> doesnt speak for a large cross-section of people literally, but it is full
> of meaning. these people have something fundamentally wrong with them in
> their hearts and minds and they are searching for something to make them
> whole. perhaps that is a theme that has been done before, but it has
> seldom been done with such humour, poignancy, and intelligence. some
> sanitized story about a loser white boy who becomes a rapper is hardly
> redemption on a grand scale. come on. you can't tell me that rocky-esque
> piece of crap isn't extremely formulaic. the underdog genre is one of the
> most pathetic. it is entirely masturbatory and coldly calculated to appeal
> to the masses of similar losers with nothing to look forward to in life.

Girl, I was listening Iggy Pop years and years before Trainspotting movie was released... I got off drugs because Iggy Pop and Lou Reed albums ... which is quite a paradox statement to make, if you think about it... Again, question, YOU DIDN'T SEE THE ACTAL MOVIE, AND YET YOU JUDGE THE MOVIE AS, quote unquote, sanitized story about a loser white boy who becomes a rapper...
????????????????????????

> eminem does not speak to me. i am from a lower middle class family. my
> father has a white-collar job, but we still live very simply. everything i
> have now, i had to work for or i will be paying for later (scholarships
> and loans). i have had a lot of shitty things happen in my life and i
> don't bitch and moan about it like a little crybaby. my life hasn't been
> extremely hard, but i can guarantee, if i ever became famous (doubtful), i
> wouldn't be making masturbatory odes to myself. i'd be trying to give back
> and enrich the lives of others. in fact, i plan to try to do that stuff
> without becoming famous. in other words, eminem is a pathetic loser who
> will never speak to people like me. yeah, maybe he had a sad life and
> maybe he had to work hard (down on his knees, blowing dre) to get where he
> is today, but what has he done for society? oh yeah, he writes hate-filled
> songs and carries guns into clubs and otherwise acts like a thug.

BTW, the gun in the movie was a paint-sprinkling toy gun, so be factual, girl!
Pathetic loser? Not after hanging with the cream of cream of rappers, peoples like Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Ice T, Snoop Doggy Dogg etc... Eminem IS TRULY RESPECTED by Black rappers, unlike a one bit joke Vanilla Ice or Beastie Boys...
So he may be an evilmofo, according to you, but he definitely not a loser...
> do you realise that your posts are unintentionally humorous as you use
> colorful phrases that can be easily misconstrued? i dont mean to make fun
> of other people's lack of proficiency in the english language as it may
> not be their mother tongue - but your saying eminem is a "golden
> money shower" made me laugh my ass off. maybe i just have a sick
> mind.
well, of course I wrote this expression the way it is on purpose, why lie, Eminem is erotic...

> and they are mancunians and liverpudlians or mancs and scousers.

> furthermore, eminem is a sellout because he always bitches about popstars
> when he f***ing well is one. morrissey does similar, but he isn't
> hypocritical about it. he doesn't go pimping himself out on the MTV. he
> doesn't cowtow to the record industries or the whims of 14 year old fans
> (who in addition to buying his albums, also keep such musical luminaries
> as avril lavigne and limp bizkit in business).
oh, come on, avril lavigne is cute, and she is also Canadian, a bonus, plus she could play hockey, really! Could Moz play hockey? No... You see, girl, I'm having fun at you expense... being my bitchy self... Har, har, har...

> i take extreme offense at your implication that i try to champion popular
> opinion at the board. to quote a brand new morrissey song "and no
> regime can buy or sell me..."
i didn't mean it applying to you, I was just blubbering about life generalities... Oh, girl, you are so insecure, yet idealistic... You are not going to sue me for a label, are you... Remember, we are doing this argument for pure entertainment fun, it is a game, it is not serious, darling, you are pure, honest soul, I love you, you love me, we are a happy family, we could shop together, my ex-lover is a world class stylist, he would give you free service any time at his Beverly Hills saloon, Mindy, you are good enough, you are smart enough, and damn it, you DESERVE HAPPINESS! Your karma has very very good vibrations, you are a doll... Now, do you still hate me, Mindy dear.. OK, my reservoir of irony is empty now...

> now please go back to alternately fellating lou reed and eminem. thanks!
NOT A WORST PLACE IN THE WORLD TO BE! LMQAO.... Actually, thanks for wishing me well...

 

[Mindy]

Re: Kicking my inner teen... Mindy, are you mad at me?

i actually used to think tom cruise was gay, but i got over it. he may be bi, but i think he definitely slips penelope the hot beef injection, to be perfectly vulgar. and yes, i watch e! true hollywood stories, dear and that mysteries and scandals show (okay, my sister does but i'd watch it with her sometimes) so i know all about rock, monty and anthony. you forgot cary grant, but then that's never been confirmed.

and i have read more than enough reviews of the movie to know what it's about. it is, for all intents and purposes, a sanitized version of eminem's life. and the gun he had in real life, i assure you, was not fake. i was referring to real life not the movie when i mentioned his gun-toting ways.

oh and your coolness is defined by the people you hang out with? really? how poseur is that? did i say vanilla ice wasn't a loser? hell no. but i take issue with your lumping of the beastie boys in the same category. the beastie boys got into rap before it was the cool thing for white kids to do. they pioneered the way, for better or for worse, for losers like eminem to make it big. the beastie boys don't get the respect they deserve. also, the beastie boys at least evolved as artists, which is more than i can say for eminem thus far. but then, he's found a formula that works - that sells albums to retarded teenage boys and girls (who inexplicably think he's hot - i, for one, have seen better looking things come stuck to the bottom of my shoe - i stepped on a picture of morrissey once by mistake!) - so why bother changing? what a great artistic ethic!

and avril lavigne is a talentless loser. she knows about three chords, and that's it. she rarely plays guitar at her lives shows and when she does, she is very poor at it. she has an obnoxious alanis-esque voice. what's worse, she claims to be keeping it real when in reality, she is a puppet of the industry just like the artists she claims to scorn. hell, i bet after a long day of bitching about how britney spears is a talentless ho, she goes home to listen to "i'm a slave 4 U" on repeat 47 times. talk about the pot calling the kettle.

and say hi to fabio for me. i wonder why he let a catch like you go! i guess he hates eminem and eminem's dicksuckers as much as i do.

> Oh my, I always hated Nicole Kidman! What a sleep-for-success,
> fake-marry-a-gifted-but-insecure-gay-guy Aussie kangaroo bitch... LOL
> Girl, the only thing we have in common, we both like Jane
> "Hanoi" Fonda...

> Do you believe Tom Cruise actually sleeps with "penelope
> cruz"... You make me laughing... Remember Rock Hudson, Monty Cliff,
> Anthony Perkins...? They were "married" by Hollywood studio
> honchos too for good PR...

> Girl, I was listening Iggy Pop years and years before Trainspotting movie
> was released... I got off drugs because Iggy Pop and Lou Reed albums ...
> which is quite a paradox statement to make, if you think about it...
> Again, question, YOU DIDN'T SEE THE ACTAL MOVIE, AND YET YOU JUDGE THE
> MOVIE AS, quote unquote, sanitized story about a loser white boy who
> becomes a rapper...
> ????????????????????????

> BTW, the gun in the movie was a paint-sprinkling toy gun, so be factual,
> girl!
> Pathetic loser? Not after hanging with the cream of cream of rappers,
> peoples like Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Ice T, Snoop Doggy Dogg etc... Eminem IS
> TRULY RESPECTED by Black rappers, unlike a one bit joke Vanilla Ice or
> Beastie Boys...
> So he may be an evilmofo, according to you, but he definitely not a
> loser...
> well, of course I wrote this expression the way it is on purpose, why lie,
> Eminem is erotic...
> oh, come on, avril lavigne is cute, and she is also Canadian, a bonus,
> plus she could play hockey, really! Could Moz play hockey? No... You see,
> girl, I'm having fun at you expense... being my bitchy self... Har, har,
> har...
> i didn't mean it applying to you, I was just blubbering about life
> generalities... Oh, girl, you are so insecure, yet idealistic... You are
> not going to sue me for a label, are you... Remember, we are doing this
> argument for pure entertainment fun, it is a game, it is not serious,
> darling, you are pure, honest soul, I love you, you love me, we are a
> happy family, we could shop together, my ex-lover is a world class
> stylist, he would give you free service any time at his Beverly Hills
> saloon, Mindy, you are good enough, you are smart enough, and damn it, you
> DESERVE HAPPINESS! Your karma has very very good vibrations, you are a
> doll... Now, do you still hate me, Mindy dear.. OK, my reservoir of irony
> is empty now...
> NOT A WORST PLACE IN THE WORLD TO BE! LMQAO.... Actually, thanks for
> wishing me well...

 

[Mindy]

it's not acting if you play yourself

 

[Fox in The Snow]

Life is more fun then E! channel...

> i actually used to think tom cruise was gay, but i got over it. he may be
> bi, but i think he definitely slips penelope the hot beef injection, to be
> perfectly vulgar. and yes, i watch e! true hollywood stories, dear and
> that mysteries and scandals show (okay, my sister does but i'd watch it
> with her sometimes) so i know all about rock, monty and anthony. you
> forgot cary grant, but then that's never been confirmed.

I donno, Tom Cruise & Nicole love chemistry at Eyes Wide Shut (if I remember right the name of last Kubrick movie)... was non-existant... Tom looks and acts gay to me, he also, IMHO, happens to be a very decent character actor, way better the Nicolas Cage or Bruce Willis, but perhaps not as good as Torrence Stamp or Johnny Depp...

> and i have read more than enough reviews of the movie to know what it's
> about. it is, for all intents and purposes, a sanitized version of
> eminem's life. and the gun he had in real life, i assure you, was not
> fake. i was referring to real life not the movie when i mentioned his
> gun-toting ways.

Well, if I would live at trailer park my teenage years, I for sure would carry a gun and perhaps join a gang FOR SELF-DEFENCE... That's how many teens at bad 'hoods are becoming gang-bangers, they are being sick and tired to be beaten, while their school-lunch monies are stolen by thugs... Some of those teens have enough moral guidance to preserve and get out of ghetto/trailer park/projects... Some teens without appropriate role models and without real moral forces & positive influences in their lifes are prone to join another pack of thugs to defend themselves from their school-hall enemies... Think about it, many ghetto kids have no real role models, what real life Eminem saw as his neighbours: drunks and welfare recipients, he saw his mom lovers and local gangbangers... You are a middle class, and so am I, so let's not judge peoples who came from real mean streets in real American inner cities... The question is, did Eminem change his sexist and homophobic ways... When I was in college, I was RELATIVELY poor, yet I could afford a little things like beer and concert tickets, with a little work-study here and a little money from mom & dad there, and a little occasional part time job... Eminem was a dirt poor, living in a trailer, he went in awful inner city school, which was not a learning experience but more like playground for gangs & school of combat, plus Eminem was a white kid in predominantly black environment, so he had to prove himself both as an equal to local black rappers, who may or may not harbor some anti-white prejudice. Also, Eminem had to defend himself from... other whites racist insults... who blamed him for being "wiggie", a white kid who befriends mostly blacks and is a "triator" to his race... That's why I got fancied by Eminem: he is on the crossroads of a black and poor white Detroit subculture, he is ONE OF THE FEW WHITES AT MODERN DAY RACIALLY DIVIDED AMERICA, WHO MAY FEEL AT BLACK-MOSTLY PARTY TOTALLY COMFORTABLE, AT HOME...

> oh and your coolness is defined by the people you hang out with? really?
> how poseur is that? did i say vanilla ice wasn't a loser? hell no. but i
> take issue with your lumping of the beastie boys in the same category. the
> beastie boys got into rap before it was the cool thing for white kids to
> do. they pioneered the way, for better or for worse, for losers like
> eminem to make it big. the beastie boys don't get the respect they
> deserve. also, the beastie boys at least evolved as artists, which is more
> than i can say for eminem thus far. but then, he's found a formula that
> works - that sells albums to retarded teenage boys and girls (who
> inexplicably think he's hot - i, for one, have seen better looking things
> come stuck to the bottom of my shoe - i stepped on a picture of morrissey
> once by mistake!) - so why bother changing? what a great artistic ethic!

I don't care about Beastie Boys, they are a decent frat boy entertainers, didn't they were all members of ZBT fraternity originally... Explain me, why Beastie Boys are better then say Limp Bizkit or Blink-182??? "Retarded teenage boys and girls"? Again, Mindy, you like to throw labels... I'm sure some Cure fans would call us all here at mozboard exactly like that for underappreciating Robert Smith and getting "high" on Smiths & Moz...

> and avril lavigne is a talentless loser. she knows about three chords, and
> that's it. she rarely plays guitar at her lives shows and when she does,
> she is very poor at it. she has an obnoxious alanis-esque voice. what's
> worse, she claims to be keeping it real when in reality, she is a puppet
> of the industry just like the artists she claims to scorn. hell, i bet
> after a long day of bitching about how britney spears is a talentless ho,
> she goes home to listen to "i'm a slave 4 U" on repeat 47 times.
> talk about the pot calling the kettle.

Oh, I was kiddin' about her, I was just reading Rolling Stones about hockey party her record label threw for her... Of course, she is manufactured... but how finely, from a precious finely colored glass, with a little tag "Made in Canada", and a hockey stick attached... I will buy her delicate figurine for my Christmas Tree, she will be hanged there next to Alanis... LOL

"i'm a slave 4 U" is a good song, in a sense... After all, Britney brings with her a valuable experience of a Mickey Mouse Mouseketeer Club member... Oh,just teasing you... teasing...

> and say hi to fabio for me. i wonder why he let a catch like you go! i
> guess he hates eminem and eminem's dicksuckers as much as i do.

Oh, that was a joke too, I would never date Fabio, he looks like overfed cat. Mozzer warnings in his immortal "Hairdresser On Fire" were on target: stylists are great lovers but very lousy life partners... Actually, my last boyfriend was a gourmet cook (bad American food for his customers, heavenly Mexican food for us in our kitchen), which is, if you think about it, ain't so bad either... OK, I dated a stylist, but it was long ago, and his name was not Fabio... No, he was not Kevin Aucoin, but he was his underboss... his name was... Oh, he is very big now on E! channel, the certain peoples I know...
Oh, just bullshitting you... He was just your average Joe Schmoe stylist...

As of calling me Eminem dicksucker, oh, come on, it was a cheap shot, also, unlike Cruise, Eminem is a straight dude, I could feel it... The bad thing, some gays have a dangerous tendency to fall in love with straight guys, but it is a subject for a different discussion on a different board...

Ok, I'm tired now, good nite and thank you, I'm goin' to bed now...