What do you think (re: Jesse)

[Anonymous]

So if this is all hatred, Jesse-bashing etc, why isn't there Matt Walker-bashing? Or Solomon Walker bashing? Why did some people pick on no other but Jesse Tobias?

Because he IS shit. Definitely for a singer of Morrissey's status. But you know, it's his decision, so either take it or leave it...but as much as it's Morrissey's right to choose whoever he wants to work with, everyone has the right to critisize any of his band's members. End of story.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the hate towards Jesse is truly irrational. And we have to call it hate since it has long surpassed normal criticism. Yes, Jesse isn't Johnny (nobody is and luckily so) but Alain wasn't Johnny either. But, imho, there is one significant similarity between Alain and Johnny - they are the type of people who actually can't be hated. EVERYBODY loves them without exception. They are the guys who are called "top bloke" and "down to earth guy" constantly, regardless of what they are doing next. Or as Noel Gallagher would say "How can anybody NOT like Johnny f***ing Marr". Alain falls into the same category. Jesse somehow don't and THAT is the problem more than any other poor excuses. Gustavo is the same, by the way. Now, if he would play the guitars ... Since Morrissey himself doesn't fall into the Johnny/Alain category, I imagine he can relate to Jesse quite well.

 

[Eurydice]

Since I'm no guitar expert, I can only vouch for his character. He's a very nice guy who is great to the fans, very personable. I witnessed this in person in Philadelphia. Just wanted to float that out there since he isn't as hard as he physically appears.

 

[Anonymous]

Since I'm no guitar expert, I can only vouch for his character. He's a very nice guy who is great to the fans, very personable. I witnessed this in person in Philadelphia. Just wanted to float that out there since he isn't as hard as he physically appears.

Nope. He's very nice and people tend to forget he's an actual person. I think he's great on guitar and his songs are some of my favorites. He's not Johnny and he's not Alain and that's why he gets so much hate.

 

[Jamie]

1. Until he started changing things up on the new album, Jesse's guitar tone has always been abrasive to my ears. His effects/pedal choices just sound ugly and often dissonant to the rest of the musical performance.

2. To me, his renditions of Smiths songs are either utter photocopies or complete hatchet jobs. For the sake of argument, let's call it the Still Ill - This Charming Man continuum.

3. I have noted multiple times in the past that he appears to have a "melodic blind spot" for Alain's songs, i.e., in trying to put his own spin on the song in question, he eliminates swathes of the most identifiable or enjoyable elements (e.g., Best Friend on the Payroll, You're The One For Me, Fatty).

4. It is objectively true that his songwriting contributions vastly improved with WPINOYB - but he had been on the job just a shade under 10 years at the time. I hardly believe Morrissey was "holding him back" all that time. He has moved from a "needs improvement" to "satisfactory." He's a solid C / C-.

People who see him be sweet as pie to some Morrissey fans are only seeing one shade or flavor of him. Others have seen more questionable aspects of his personality. And more I can / will not say, take it or leave it. He's no devil...but he's no angel either. But aren't we all?

 

[Maurice E Maher]

lmao bitch you know that's a lie! and i say this as someone who isn't a fan of Marr's latest album

Jesse Tobias is obviously not a better songwriter than Johnny Marr when you look at both their back catalogues.
Marr's Smiths songs are pretty much untouchable.
But Jesse's songs on World Peace are, to me at least, much better compositions than Marr's on Playland which are almost universally awful.
I'm obviously a huge fan of Marr's (hence my user name) and thought there were some real beauties on The Messenger, up there with his best ever stuff. But Playland is horrible. Money Money aside, I find it virtually unlistenable.
In fact, I'm going to try and listen to it again, tonight. Wish me luck!
Mr M Maher

 

[Anonymous]

1. Until he started changing things up on the new album, Jesse's guitar tone has always been abrasive to my ears. His effects/pedal choices just sound ugly and often dissonant to the rest of the musical performance.

2. To me, his renditions of Smiths songs are either utter photocopies or complete hatchet jobs. For the sake of argument, let's call it the Still Ill - This Charming Man continuum.

3. I have noted multiple times in the past that he appears to have a "melodic blind spot" for Alain's songs, i.e., in trying to put his own spin on the song in question, he eliminates swathes of the most identifiable or enjoyable elements (e.g., Best Friend on the Payroll, You're The One For Me, Fatty).

4. It is objectively true that his songwriting contributions vastly improved with WPINOYB - but he had been on the job just a shade under 10 years at the time. I hardly believe Morrissey was "holding him back" all that time. He has moved from a "needs improvement" to "satisfactory." He's a solid C / C-.

People who see him be sweet as pie to some Morrissey fans are only seeing one shade or flavor of him. Others have seen more questionable aspects of his personality. And more I can / will not say, take it or leave it. He's no devil...but he's no angel either. But aren't we all?

great and accurate post ;D

 

[Anonymous]

Jesse Tobias is obviously not a better songwriter than Johnny Marr when you look at both their back catalogues.
Marr's Smiths songs are pretty much untouchable.
But Jesse's songs on World Peace are, to me at least, much better compositions than Marr's on Playland which are almost universally awful.
I'm obviously a huge fan of Marr's (hence my user name) and thought there were some real beauties on The Messenger, up there with his best ever stuff. But Playland is horrible. Money Money aside, I find it virtually unlistenable.
In fact, I'm going to try and listen to it again, tonight. Wish me luck!
Mr M Maher

meh, i disliked both WPINOYB and Playland, sorry to say

 

[Anonymous]

1. Until he started changing things up on the new album, Jesse's guitar tone has always been abrasive to my ears. His effects/pedal choices just sound ugly and often dissonant to the rest of the musical performance.

2. To me, his renditions of Smiths songs are either utter photocopies or complete hatchet jobs. For the sake of argument, let's call it the Still Ill - This Charming Man continuum.

3. I have noted multiple times in the past that he appears to have a "melodic blind spot" for Alain's songs, i.e., in trying to put his own spin on the song in question, he eliminates swathes of the most identifiable or enjoyable elements (e.g., Best Friend on the Payroll, You're The One For Me, Fatty).

4. It is objectively true that his songwriting contributions vastly improved with WPINOYB - but he had been on the job just a shade under 10 years at the time. I hardly believe Morrissey was "holding him back" all that time. He has moved from a "needs improvement" to "satisfactory." He's a solid C / C-.

People who see him be sweet as pie to some Morrissey fans are only seeing one shade or flavor of him. Others have seen more questionable aspects of his personality. And more I can / will not say, take it or leave it. He's no devil...but he's no angel either. But aren't we all?

My goodness, some of you seem to have extremely high standards for people who they don't even know and whose life not influences theirs in the slightest. You know what, according to your standards, there is only really one conclusion: Morrissey must throw himself out of the band. After what we "believe" to know, he's the most horrible person of all. Physicians, heal thyselves!

 

[Jamie]

My goodness, some of you seem to have extremely high standards for people who they don't even know and whose life not influences theirs in the slightest. You know what, according to your standards, there is only really one conclusion: Morrissey must throw himself out of the band. After what we "believe" to know, he's the most horrible person of all. Physicians, heal thyselves!

Did you not read my last two sentences?

 

[marred]

So if this is all hatred, Jesse-bashing etc, why isn't there Matt Walker-bashing? Or Solomon Walker bashing? Why did some people pick on no other but Jesse Tobias?

Because he IS shit. Definitely for a singer of Morrissey's status. But you know, it's his decision, so either take it or leave it...but as much as it's Morrissey's right to choose whoever he wants to work with, everyone has the right to critisize any of his band's members. End of story.

The problem is they don't know when to stop. I guess that's par for the course with whiners though.

- - - Updated - - -

Since I'm no guitar expert, I can only vouch for his character. He's a very nice guy who is great to the fans, very personable. I witnessed this in person in Philadelphia. Just wanted to float that out there since he isn't as hard as he physically appears.

Don't worry dice, neither are the people complaining about him.

 

[MozIsGod]

1. Until he started changing things up on the new album, Jesse's guitar tone has always been abrasive to my ears. His effects/pedal choices just sound ugly and often dissonant to the rest of the musical performance.

2. To me, his renditions of Smiths songs are either utter photocopies or complete hatchet jobs. For the sake of argument, let's call it the Still Ill - This Charming Man continuum.

I've always thought this is what initially appealed to Morrissey early on. Alain always impacted his own signature style on Smiths songs while Jesse usually mimics those original recordings (when Moz permits). I remember Alain got trashed for his live rendition of "Headmaster Ritual." If you compare Alain and Jesse's versions on that 2004 tour, Jesse initially tries to mimic Marr to a tee.

3. I have noted multiple times in the past that he appears to have a "melodic blind spot" for Alain's songs, i.e., in trying to put his own spin on the song in question, he eliminates swathes of the most identifiable or enjoyable elements (e.g., Best Friend on the Payroll, You're The One For Me, Fatty).

Those are good examples but I think Jesse does his absolute worst on Reader Meet Author. The solo is my favorite musical element of the song and Jesse turns it into a big pile of poo. It's interesting that Jesse does stay true to Alain's picking on the more slower intricate stuff like Seasick and We'll Let You Know.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't worry dice, neither are the people complaining about him.

Actually I am, but don't want to brag about it, I am just sad as Morrissey could release much, much better records with fantastic musical textures and great arrangements written by fantastic musicians, who'd be even willing to work with him (see many great songwriters' interviews, like the Manics and so on), should he make the effort instead of sticking to people who won't challenge him. And that is very sad and annoying.

 

[Tynamuna]

Actually I am, but don't want to brag about it, I am just sad as Morrissey could release much, much better records with fantastic musical textures and great arrangements written by fantastic musicians, who'd be even willing to work with him (see many great songwriters' interviews, like the Manics and so on), should he make the effort instead of sticking to people who won't challenge him. And that is very sad and annoying.

Spot on. Nicky is so willing to work with moz

 

[2-J]

Bring back Alain.

I feel lucky now to have seen Alain play for Morrissey on a few occasions.

 

[Ben Budd]

Without looking at stats myself, are we at the stage now where Jesse has played more gigs than Alain with Morrissey?

 

[Velvis]

I am just sad as Morrissey could release much, much better records with fantastic musical textures and great arrangements written by fantastic musicians, who'd be even willing to work with him (see many great songwriters' interviews, like the Manics and so on), should he make the effort instead of sticking to people who won't challenge him. And that is very sad and annoying.

Dear Sad & Annoyed

Don't be sad (or annoyed).

Listen to his last 2 or 3 LPs. There are more textures there than most artists cover in a whole career.
Great playing, unusual, brave arrangements. What the feck do you want?

It's so easy to jump on the Morrissey bashing bandwagon, it's not big and it's not clever. So, be thankful and cheer up!

 

[Anonymous]

very little said as to what actually is an issue with him though i see none myself. last album was great in terms of musical texture. horns flamenco keyboards etc seems like a lot fo texture to me. what textures do yoiu think are missing

 

[Anonymous]

Dear Sad & Annoyed

Don't be sad (or annoyed).

Listen to his last 2 or 3 LPs. There are more textures there than most artists cover in a whole career.
Great playing, unusual, brave arrangements. What the feck do you want?

It's so easy to jump on the Morrissey bashing bandwagon, it's not big and it's not clever. So, be thankful and cheer up!

Actually listening to Morrissey since 1988, i followed his carreer since then, so not jumping any bandwagon, i just have ears . As a matter of fact, i live ''World Peace''...but when i saw Youtube links of live renditions, I realised nothng's changed. Goes to show what a good producer can do with avergare musicians!

 

[Anonymouswithapologies]

Actually listening to Morrissey since 1988, i followed his carreer since then, so not jumping any bandwagon, i just have ears . As a matter of fact, i love ''World Peace''...but when i saw Youtube links of live renditions, I realised nothng's changed. Goes to show what a good producer can do with avergare musicians!

wpinoyb is excellent but these songs sound better live, many agree about it.