Morrissey referenced in The Guardian's Marilyn Manson interview

Morrissey referenced in Marilyn Manson interview:

Marilyn Manson: ‘I created a fake world because I didn’t like the one I was living in’ - The Guardian
by Carole Cadwalladr

"If Morrissey had been American and had taken up satanism and lipstick and best friendship with Hunter S Thompson and Johnny Depp, he might occupy a cultural niche not that far off Manson’s."

 

[Chip]

Yes he does. I really like the threads here on solo, "What song or what album are you listening to". I've found some very interesting music there. Some Morrissey fan posted a Manson song and I really liked it. I always thought he was a poser like some others but he's actually a damn good artist. I've since purchased three albums and have his new one Pale emperor, on order. I like many different types of music and he's definitely different.

Mechanical Animals will always hold a special place for me, but I have not followed his work in years. I find at times his lyrics can be a little...put on. Though I guess that is what happens when one attempts to be a "shock rocker."

 

[Chip]

Apparently solo's opinion on Manson was not so kind circa 2000--http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/5202-Morrissey-s-opinion-of-Marilyn-Manson

 

[R E Howard]

Apparently solo's opinion on Manson was not so kind circa 2000--http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/5202-Morrissey-s-opinion-of-Marilyn-Manson

I don't doubt that. Ha. Morrissey doesn't like a lot things either.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Interesting interview. I think like Manson, Morrissey too feels trapped by his public persona. How many years did he have to pretend to be celibate after mentioning it in the press? Or even now, perhaps he wants to be 'out' but fears he'd lose his drooling, lustful female fanbase. Would the frink thread cease to exist if he admitted he was gay? (Btw, notice how the most ardent sycofemmes are all plump, childless, and neurotic? With the exception of Julia being thin, of course. I have.)

Amendment: Male Morrissey fans seem so much more well adjusted on the whole. Anyone else agree?

Derail much? This has nothing to do with Marilyn Manson's comment, it just reveals your forced adulation of your anorexia. The frink thread has been crickets and cobwebs for years.

 

[Anonymous]

manson satirizes and speaks to a lot pf superficiality in a way that some artist would be afraid to. theyd be to embarrassed. he also has a much deeper side and like all people is somewhat conflicted. he doesnt hide his conflictions though or his mistakes which i think is pretty cool. i agree very honest. i do like manson and am a huge fan though albums go up and down but for the most part hes very consistent. i dont think hes really a shock rocker at least in the sense that i dont think he wants to shock in any way and i dont think he places that aspect of himself to high in the whole of it. he wouldnt compromise certain things about himself just to shock. i mean his whole point for a bit was stupid people are shocked by satanism and they will pay him for it. thats a nice revenge against the stupid religious people he grew up with. same with gender and sexual preference. i mean, hes an athiest non believer. anyways, heres my taste in manson albums in order from fav to least fav

antichrist superstar
holywood
golden age of grotesque
eat me drink me
the high end of low
mechanical animals
portrait of an american family
born villan
smells like children

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I just liked his cameo in Eastbound and Down.

 

[Famous when dead]

If I recall, 'The Long Hard Road Out of Hell' had a guide to 'gayness' that was made up of a lot of mildly negative Smith's references.
I can appreciate the emo/industrial reinvented Ziggy for disaffected and disenfranchised 'muricans, but the musicality often gives way to the 'shock' aspect and it puts me off. Since the wax crayon incident, I think I lost interest.
Regards,
FWD
Post script:
The internet provides... Said bit of the book:
http://projectmaddness.tumblr.com/post/24946516718/marilyn-manson-the-rules-part-ii

 

[hand in glove]

Good interview, I like Manson but not his music. He's always come across as very honest.

I agree. He does seem to be quite honest and straight forward at times, but I watched him in an interview late last year and he was all over the place. His concentration level was very low and he didn't seem to fully understand the questions or follow what others had to say. I think he's slightly interesting but very transparent and simple.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. He does seem to be quite honest and straight forward at times, but I watched him in an interview late last year and he was all over the place. His concentration level was very low and he didn't seem to fully understand the questions or follow what others had to say. I think he's slightly interesting but very transparent and simple.

he does a lot of drugs and does interviews high at times so thats probably it. he also had fueds with a lots of long time friends in the recent past and this made him very sad and in his own words scared. thats another thing i like about him, he publically tsalks about being afraid which is something i dont see a lot of recording artist say ya knwo because of sales. i liked when he was asked why born villan didnt do as well and his response was i dont know for sure, i guess i didnt put enough hooks in it. any other artist would say people didnt get it, claim it to be there best and favorite album yet to protect there image and potential future sales and he said he didnt make the music good enough which is pretty classy. in long hard road out of hell he did have list of gayness that said if you listen to morrissey or the smiths you are gay. he also had a list of rules hes broken which was liking morrissey and the smiths (which he said must make him gay. he was accepting that , and throwing back in the face of idiots, that of course he was gay because he listened to morriseey which is an insult you get over here in certain places environments. the stuff he wrote for the columbine kids was really really good and no one else i can think of said anything about it (sales you know). disposible teens with its beatles references and the nobodies was great. his song about youth christian groups harassing you into recruitment using focus groups (another thing i had to deal with growing up), sorry for your sales and that your Crucifixion commercials failed. that song speaks to me and matches my frustration anger. if you wanna see the really angry interviews try manson interviews before he was famous. the phil donahue one is great imo. i think some people fail to realize how much success he had after mechanical animals. hollywood and golden age (which is a straight up uptempo angry industrial album that uses 30s and 40s propaganda techniques and language mixed in) and eat me drink me is a blues rock album with a serious blues rock guitar solo in like every song. also has his start of electronic pop there with heart shaped glasses which continued in songs like wow (i love the line "dont be surprised i can look you in the eye). he seriously pissed of and influenced a lot of people who probably wouldnt ever even hear pils religion and while i love that song his music has effect peoples thought on organized christianity than any pill song and i think thats important. like skinny said above hes also very very rich and not from record sales concerts, which is pretty lucrative, hes rich from his personal investments and investment choices. hes like the richest musical artist going at the moment. one last good thing i like about brian is his love for his family and parents whom he lavishes and spoils. thats a good son.

p.s i love pil. one of my favs. also love lydon

p.p.s the article really made me wanna listen to the jesus and marychains honeys dead. "i wanna die just like j.f.k, i wanna die just like jesus christ"

 

[R E Howard]

"He is a handful. He has interesting things to say, but his talk is all over the shop. His stories are charged with symbolism and coincidence and, I suspect, hyperbole. He jumps from topic to topic and, especially, filmic reference to filmic reference. An ardent cinephile, he’s steeped in the language and history of film, and the visual imagery of the cinema seems as real to him as real life is to most people."

This a very revealing section of the interview. Like Morrissey, Manson is an artist not an intellectual. We are human animals and symbolic creatures and this creates the paradox of our lives. When Manson compares what he does on stage touring to what his father did in Vietnam, Killing people, it makes sense on a symbolic and visceral level. You know what I'm saying. A great compliment to an artist is, "You killed it man, that was great." Let's Rock!

 

[Anonymous]

he is a show and his show never stops which is also a really interesting thing. i think most people think films are reflections of real life and take the vast majority of there knowledge from film and media. more so than ever in younger generations. also there are interviews that will surprise you with his knowledge of certain things and his ideas on them. its just hard to find interviews where hes not totally in character but they do exist. i liked what he had to say in bowling for columbine. i liked what he had to say about dada in certain interviews. his thoughts on ethics and gender were also pretty interesting at times. talking about manson just makes me think of certain lines i really like. i wanna celibate i wanna sell your hatred. man when the whole theyre gonna take away our guns, bush in power etc happened his first song on hollywood (the columbine album) was do you love your guns, yeah guns yeah your government, well f#ck you". what other artist had the balls to say that to the general public at large. no one. i think hes more of an intellectual than you might think he is but like i said his shows always on except for rare instances you have to dig look for and invest time in which most people dont do.

as for film references or films hes been in, i liked lost highway, party monster (no one looked as messed up giggling than he did in that whole film), jawbreaker, the heart is deceitful above all things (dont get me started on that author but the film was good), voice actor in the video game area 51 which i played a lot, tim and eric awesome show (an adult swim show for people who what that is), east bound and down which was hilarious, and now sons of anarchy. thats not a bad acting resume for a famous musician.

i dont know, its kinda pointless to try to hard to convince people but his music and persona have effected a lot of people long long after the "shock" wore off and, like morrissey, hes changed little in that time. use your fist and not your mouth are words i think a lot of intellectuals could standf to hear if affecting change is what theyre about. also like morrissey he started his professional life writing about bands and music. fun fact

 

[hand in glove]

he does a lot of drugs and does interviews high at times so thats probably it.

Fair point, I suppose, but if that's the case, he should reconsider doing that as it makes him look like an idiot.

he also had fueds with a lots of long time friends in the recent past and this made him very sad and in his own words scared. thats another thing i like about him, he publically tsalks about being afraid which is something i dont see a lot of recording artist say ya knwo because of sales.

Yes, that is an admirable thing. I believe he has a good heart, and I can completely identify with this.

i liked when he was asked why born villan didnt do as well and his response was i dont know for sure, i guess i didnt put enough hooks in it. any other artist would say people didnt get it, claim it to be there best and favorite album yet to protect there image and potential future sales and he said he didnt make the music good enough which is pretty classy.

We are always our own worst critics, and this is an example of MM being pure and honest publicly about his work, yet he should also keep in mind that there are quite a few of his biggest fans who enjoy Born Villain and think it's perhaps his best work. Much like some Morrissey fans absolutely love Kill Uncle, though, if I recall correctly, Morrissey isn't terribly fond of it. When asked if he would say why, he wouldn't elaborate and said (along these lines), "Well, someone may actually like it." Meaning, he would rather keep quiet than insult those who held it in high standards. Which, in itself, is very honest and polite, but at the same time, quite revealing.

in long hard road out of hell he did have list of gayness that said if you listen to morrissey or the smiths you are gay. he also had a list of rules hes broken which was liking morrissey and the smiths (which he said must make him gay. he was accepting that , and throwing back in the face of idiots, that of course he was gay because he listened to morriseey which is an insult you get over here in certain places environments.

Using the term "gay" to reference anything is the sort of thing that I hate and have no tolerance for at all. AT ALL. Idiocy at it's finest.

the stuff he wrote for the columbine kids was really really good and no one else i can think of said anything about it (sales you know). disposible teens with its beatles references and the nobodies was great.

I like what he said in the interview that people should have listened to them instead of ignoring them. But then, 98% of people who are like that are usually blowing hot air and remain faceless. No one really thought those boys were capable of doing what transpired. Sadly, it takes a massive tragedy to make people aware there's a problem.

Sorry, I didn't follow your "disposable teens with its Beatles references" comment. What did he say?

his song about youth christian groups harassing you into recruitment using focus groups (another thing i had to deal with growing up), sorry for your sales and that your Crucifixion commercials failed. that song speaks to me and matches my frustration anger. if you wanna see the really angry interviews try manson interviews before he was famous. the phil donahue one is great imo. i think some people fail to realize how much success he had after mechanical animals. hollywood and golden age (which is a straight up uptempo angry industrial album that uses 30s and 40s propaganda techniques and language mixed in) and eat me drink me is a blues rock album with a serious blues rock guitar solo in like every song. also has his start of electronic pop there with heart shaped glasses which continued in songs like wow (i love the line "dont be surprised i can look you in the eye). he seriously pissed of and influenced a lot of people who probably wouldnt ever even hear pils religion and while i love that song his music has effect peoples thought on organized christianity than any pill song and i think thats important. like skinny said above hes also very very rich and not from record sales concerts, which is pretty lucrative, hes rich from his personal investments and investment choices. hes like the richest musical artist going at the moment. one last good thing i like about brian is his love for his family and parents whom he lavishes and spoils. thats a good son.

p.s i love pil. one of my favs. also love lydon

p.p.s the article really made me wanna listen to the jesus and marychains honeys dead. "i wanna die just like j.f.k, i wanna die just like jesus christ"

Well, PIL isn't as well known as MM to today's youth, so it's good that he can reach people through his work. I don't necessarily think pissing people off is the best way to go about it, but whatever works

Great choices, by the way. Love both PIL and TJAMC.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair point, I suppose, but if that's the case, he should reconsider doing that as it makes him look like an idiot.



Yes, that is an admirable thing. I believe he has a good heart, and I can completely identify with this.



We are always our own worst critics, and this is an example of MM being pure and honest publicly about his work, yet he should also keep in mind that there are quite a few of his biggest fans who enjoy Born Villain and think it's perhaps his best work. Much like some Morrissey fans absolutely love Kill Uncle, though, if I recall correctly, Morrissey isn't terribly fond of it. When asked if he would say why, he wouldn't elaborate and said (along these lines), "Well, someone may actually like it." Meaning, he would rather keep quiet than insult those who held it in high standards. Which, in itself, is very honest and polite, but at the same time, quite revealing.



Using the term "gay" to reference anything is the sort of thing that I hate and have no tolerance for at all. AT ALL. Idiocy at it's finest.



I like what he said in the interview that people should have listened to them instead of ignoring them. But then, 98% of people who are like that are usually blowing hot air and remain faceless. No one really thought those boys were capable of doing what transpired. Sadly, it takes a massive tragedy to make people aware there's a problem.

Sorry, I didn't follow your "disposable teens with its Beatles references" comment. What did he say?





Well, PIL isn't as well known as MM to today's youth, so it's good that he can reach people through his work. I don't necessarily think pissing people off is the best way to go about it, but whatever works

Great choices, by the way. Love both PIL and TJAMC.

i dont think he cares if he looks like an idiot or not. thats part of why i like him. he doesnt care if people like this work or that the most, hes honest. if i want honesty from an artist that means i have to accept different opinions and not be mad at them. as for columbine, he been saying that since he released his first single lunchbox about the real life phenomenon of them being banned in schools as kids were using them as weapons some against being bullied which is a cool irony. maybe more people should have listen to manson. as for the beatles reference he basically said you say that you want a revolution the ape was a great big hit, you say you want a revolution well i say that youre full of sh!t. you know the line references a lennon song etc kinda showing that there cultural revolution was kinda full of it and not much has changed yet. its on holywood which is considered by critics to be his best. i think the popularity is what im talking about though. if he acted like to much of an intellectual some of the people he wants to reach who live among the people he hates wouldnt hear his voice. thats for sure a conscious choice.

 

[hand in glove]

i dont think he cares if he looks like an idiot or not. thats part of why i like him. he doesnt care if people like this work or that the most, hes honest. if i want honesty from an artist that means i have to accept different opinions and not be mad at them. as for columbine, he been saying that since he released his first single lunchbox about the real life phenomenon of them being banned in schools as kids were using them as weapons some against being bullied which is a cool irony. maybe more people should have listen to manson. as for the beatles reference he basically said you say that you want a revolution the ape was a great big hit, you say you want a revolution well i say that youre full of sh!t. you know the line references a lennon song etc kinda showing that there cultural revolution was kinda full of it and not much has changed yet. its on holywood which is considered by critics to be his best. i think the popularity is what im talking about though. if he acted like to much of an intellectual some of the people he wants to reach who live among the people he hates wouldnt hear his voice. thats for sure a conscious choice.

Yeah. I agree.

 

[Chip]

If I recall, 'The Long Hard Road Out of Hell' had a guide to 'gayness' that was made up of a lot of mildly negative Smith's references.
I can appreciate the emo/industrial reinvented Ziggy for disaffected and disenfranchised 'muricans, but the musicality often gives way to the 'shock' aspect and it puts me off. Since the wax crayon incident, I think I lost interest.
Regards,
FWD
Post script:
The internet provides... Said bit of the book:
http://projectmaddness.tumblr.com/post/24946516718/marilyn-manson-the-rules-part-ii

I know he is trying to be funny and that his description is possibly self-deprecating (maybe), but I really find his humor on that list to be quite juvenile at best (or perhaps it some kind of meta parody of such lists in general--though still juvenile and I question which percent of his fanbase circa that time took it seriously). And I also question the cultural awareness of the Smiths/Morrissey amongst his target audience of Morrissey/The Smiths.

The number of Smiths/Morrissey references is really odd.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah. I agree.

also you wont hear me call anything gay ever

 

[hand in glove]

also you wont hear me call anything gay ever

I know

 

[Famous when dead]

I know he is trying to be funny and that his description is possibly self-deprecating (maybe), but I really find his humor on that list to be quite juvenile at best (or perhaps it some kind of meta parody of such lists in general--though still juvenile and I question which percent of his fanbase circa that time took it seriously). And I also question the cultural awareness of the Smiths/Morrissey amongst his target audience of Morrissey/The Smiths.

The number of Smiths/Morrissey references is really odd.

Totally agree.
This:
"Please note that this list only pertains to guys: All women are by nature lesbians."
is just inviting a 'fembot' attack
I get some of the humour and deprecation, but his fan base isn't really renowned for belly laughs... even Brian is having a chuckle at their expense at times.
Regards,
Now sober,
FWD

 

[Chip]

Totally agree.
This:
"Please note that this list only pertains to guys: All women are by nature lesbians."
is just inviting a 'fembot' attack
I get some of the humour and deprecation, but his fan base isn't really renowned for belly laughs... even Brian is having a chuckle at their expense at times.
Regards,
Now sober,
FWD

Yes. That part in particular. I mean, on the one hand, the entire thing could be some kind of scathingly subversive skewering of traditional notions of masculinity and how absurdly insecure seemingly "macho" men are--having to come up with and obsesses over stupid and clearly contradictory rules of what is and is not acceptable behavior, with even the most trivial offense having dire consequences. On the other hand, it reads like very juvenile 8th grade "hahahaha I just said 'cum'" type humor which Manson seems a little old for (though probably not his fan base).

He is apparently on tour and playing somewhat nearish to me. I am curious to know what kind of a fan base he still has circa 2015. Mostly age range.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

"He is a handful. He has interesting things to say, but his talk is all over the shop. His stories are charged with symbolism and coincidence and, I suspect, hyperbole. He jumps from topic to topic and, especially, filmic reference to filmic reference. An ardent cinephile, he’s steeped in the language and history of film, and the visual imagery of the cinema seems as real to him as real life is to most people."

This a very revealing section of the interview. Like Morrissey, Manson is an artist not an intellectual. We are human animals and symbolic creatures and this creates the paradox of our lives. When Manson compares what he does on stage touring to what his father did in Vietnam, Killing people, it makes sense on a symbolic and visceral level. You know what I'm saying. A great compliment to an artist is, "You killed it man, that was great." Let's Rock!

Yesterday I went to a show and had to soak up some booze with food and stopped at a diner and got a grilled cheese and took a pic bc at the time I had some thought about ordering cheddar and getting jack but being okay with it or something. At any rate, Barney photobombed the picture but I hardly noticed because this is what Barney does EVERY TIME I sit and eat anything so I don't notice it really. But when I looked over the pictures when I got home, Barney reminded me of Julia (but way cuter) and how they beg for him to feed them, that he's working a crowd of hungry animals begging him to feed them with songs and handshakes, and in a way it's like a death exchange, they wait for hours in miserable stockyard conditions for a sliver of ecstasy equatable only to death, like he kills the crowd and that's the draw, the power to be a minstrel abbatoir in a way to a flock of starving sheep ready to die for a bite from him. (Barney got half my grilled cheese. I'm not a monster. Dat face.)