Which Moz' "Hard Rock" album is better, Southpaw Grammar or Years Of Refusal?

Love both but gotta go with "Southpaw"
 
Years of Refusal is not good in my opinion, whereas Southpaw Grammar is excellent, completely unique in style in Morrissey's oeuvre and it's written about the place what I grew up in (Dagenham - in fact, I'm posting this not 5 minutes walk from the pub in which Morrissey begins the video to Dagenham Dave; it's still there) or rather about a culture I know very well.
 
It flies against the prevailing wisdom of today, but I far prefer Years of Refusal. Oddly, I was around when Southpaw was released and practically every Morrissey fan I knew at the time hated it.
 
It flies against the prevailing wisdom of today, but I far prefer Years of Refusal. Oddly, I was around when Southpaw was released and practically every Morrissey fan I knew at the time hated it.

Agreed on both counts. I'm kind of surprised by all the YOR dislike! It's my second favorite out of the last four albums (WPINOYB being the first).

I don't hate Southpaw or anything, but I can't remember the last time I listened to it all the way through. Three or four songs and I'm done. Maybe I should give it another chance.
 
Agreed on both counts. I'm kind of surprised by all the YOR dislike! It's my second favorite out of the last four albums (WPINOYB being the first).

I don't hate Southpaw or anything, but I can't remember the last time I listened to it all the way through. Three or four songs and I'm done. Maybe I should give it another chance.

I love YOR too! But...something about Southpaw just really flows well. I love how it's bookended by the two really long tracks. The title track especially being spectacular. I wish I had the vinyl.
 
years of refusal all the way. southpaw is the only morrissey album i out and out dont like.
 
YOR? I would. Right in the middle of the street, in front of your Grandma and everything.
 
I think Years Of Refusal is a brilliant album. If it had the production of his more successful albums then I think it would be widely loved.

Southpaw Grammar has a much nicer sound but I like Refusal way more.
 
Both have grown on me, but whilst Refusal contains what could be some of the worst songs in Morrissey's catalogue (Black Cloud, Sorry Doesn't Help) nearly every song on Southpaw is great. I especially love Boy Racer.
 
I love YOR too! But...something about Southpaw just really flows well. I love how it's bookended by the two really long tracks. The title track especially being spectacular. I wish I had the vinyl.

It is well worth hearing on vinyl. I agree that it flows and works best as a whole. Whether he fully intended it or not, whether it is completely realized, I think it was a conceptual album. I like how it was recorded and the band's performances. There is a dud lyric here and there, but there are also some of his sharpest and wittiest. The only sticking point is the quality of his vocal, the phlegmy "sick voice" that predominated in his 1994-1995 recordings.

Conversely, Years of Refusal contains great songs (typically, Alain's) but it peters out: the too-long ambiance at the end of You Were Good In Your Time and then the two new Jesse tracks. I also think the album was weakened by having two singles on it that were released nearly a year or more prior. Obviously, in terms of vocal performances, it runs rings around Southpaw.
 
OK, I've been listening to Southpaw (all the way through) since my previous post, and I must say…there's a lot on it to like, more than I've given it credit for in the past. It's worth it for "The Operation" alone!
 
It flies against the prevailing wisdom of today, but I far prefer Years of Refusal. Oddly, I was around when Southpaw was released and practically every Morrissey fan I knew at the time hated it.


I think Southpaw's reputation might be it's strongest thing going for it now. Don't get me wrong, I think it is criminally underrated, but I can't imagine Morrissey releasing Vauxhall and I and than following up with Southpaw. I can see how people at the time would have been less than pleased. But after being maligned for so long when one comes to it now I think they can't help, but be shocked by the negative reputation.

I always considered it to be very similar to YOR in a lot of ways. Both are heavy alternative rock albums that sound very particular to the time period in which they were recored and not very much like what we would expect Morrissey to make. I mean if you took away Moz's vocals and lyrics to Southpaw and listened to it you'd think it was just another mid-90s heavy alt. album. And I think people would appreciate it a lot more since they would not come in with their preconceived notions of what a Morrissey album should sound like.
 
The covers are very instructive and represent the contents of their respective albums.
Southpaw is a very attractive and meaty ruffian, full of youth and vigour.
YOR has a picture of Moz holding a smelly kid's bum.
 
It flies against the prevailing wisdom of today, but I far prefer Years of Refusal. Oddly, I was around when Southpaw was released and practically every Morrissey fan I knew at the time hated it.


I liked Years Of Refusal before I liked Southpaw. That's how long I hated it.
 
There are people in this world who think "Years of Refusal" is a... hard rock album?
 
Hate to be a hater. But these "hard rock" albums don't suit him. The loud wars, the sounds wars, no, no, nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Let me give you an insight. When you throw YOR under the bus as MANY have in that top 10 list "thelewis" started, and put "World Peace..." up in the top 5 which MANY have, it's the minds way of saying 'the album before sucked.' Even if it did not suck. You dig? Stop. Now, if you think "World Peace..." is better than Quarry, that's all fine. No problem. Great. I was listening to Quarry today and a song that isn't one of my favs came on "I Have Forgiven Jesus" and I was like 'there is not one song on "World Peace..." that is this good.' Again, just opinions right, just my 2 cents, 2 pence, 2 shillings, whatever. But to go further, the following songs, in my little opinion are better than EVERY song on "World Peace..." except "Staircase At The University" and "I'm Not a Man"
Don't get me wrong - I love "World Peace..." - I think it towers above YOR and ROTT. But here are those Quarry songs for you that are better than every song on "World Peace..." other than the two I named:

"I Have Forgiven Jesus"

"Come Back to Camden"

"The World Is Full of Crashing Bores"

"First of the Gang to Die"

Quarry 4, World Peace 2, Quarry wins

And I am being real, you know conservative here folks, because most people would have added "Irish Blood, English Heart" and "Let Me Kiss You" to the list.

Quarry 6, World Peace 2, Quarry wins

I personally, me, killed the joy of so many people who loved ROTT and I'm not going to do that now. I bashed them and bashed them. I'm getting this out now. If you see someone agreeing with me, just know I have gotten it out of my system.

p.s. If the new album, and I love it, 3.9 of 5 stars, if it had sold as well as Quarry (over 1 million units World Wide, we wouldn't be in this mess, and a new album would be on the horizon)

p.p.s. "Istanbul" is beautiful lyrically and vocally but the choppy axe of Jesse Tobias cuts into the more poetic qualities of the song. I wish the song had not gotten half-buried under what literally sounds like a guitar doubling as an axe.

p.p.p.s. If Chickpea comments I may lose it.

Rant over.
 
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