Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song composers?

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

New Town Velocity is quite pleasant, isn't it? But the songs on World Peace are so much more alive, they have more variation, they have more emotion and more drama, more light and shade, more interesting structure, they're more infectious and have more melody... and most importantly they have a genius lyricist/vocalist completing the circle.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

i dont know about marr. like someone above said he could and can still write fantastic riffs but i doubt his skill in musical arrangements. what has he released thats anywhere near as good or similar to what he did then with the smiths in terms of song structure. i think hes much more conventional in his musical arrangements without morrisseys insistence and hand involved and i think people wanted to see his hand as be all end all in everything the smiths put out. again whats he released that sounds like that music. morrissey released stuff super quick that mirrored a lot of what he sang to before even if the riffs were less awesome and effortlessly complex. again point to something that sounds similar cause i might just be missing it but i dont see it.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

New Town Velocity is quite pleasant, isn't it? But the songs on World Peace are so much more alive, they have more variation, they have more emotion and more drama, more light and shade, more interesting structure, they're more infectious and have more melody... and most importantly they have a genius lyricist/vocalist completing the circle.

No. What Morrissey's band is a high-profile record producer who has done his best to disguise the lack of musical imagination or invention in the material provided by trying to "freshen up" the overall sound and give it a "contemporary feel". The new album is all surface and no content.

By the way, "genius lyricists" do not serve up lines like, "Police will stun you with their stun guns," or "I'm something much bigger and better than/A man". They really don't.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

No. What Morrissey's band is a high-profile record producer who has done his best to disguise the lack of musical imagination or invention in the material provided by trying to "freshen up" the overall sound and give it a "contemporary feel". The new album is all surface and no content.

By the way, "genius lyricists" do not serve up lines like, "Police will stun you with their stun guns," or "I'm something much bigger and better than/A man". They really don't.

You're looking for 'clever' lyrics, which is a sort of surface showy affectation that Morrissey has clearly grown out of. The lyrics are simpler and more direct, but his lyrics were always a mix of the brilliant and the seemingly amateurish. Genius is often erratic. "Pinned to a crime in Trondheim" is a very simple line that only a great writer could come up with. Again, great writing isn't about being showy, it's about expressiveness, metaphor, 'voice', style etc; all of which is in Morrissey's current writing.

As for the new album being the work of a producer: the producer hasn't come up with the melodies which are in abundance, nor has he come up with the structures which really are incredible. The producer hasn't come up with Morrissey's incredible vocals, which if you listened closely are extremely impressive; nor has he played the instruments, the strings, the accordion, the acoustic guitar, the electric guitar, the drums (listen to One of Our Own).
No, the songwriting on this album is astonishing. The production is too, but it's the icing on the cake - the presentation of a great collection of songs - not the cake itself.
The Johnny Marr album was very enjoyable "and for those who like that sort of thing that is the sort of thing that they like..."

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

...the songwriting on this album is astonishing.

Astonishingly shite.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

I was just listening to New Town Velocity again. It has some great guitarwork on it and at first it has a real atmosphere but you keep wanting it to go somewhere, for the structure to do something and it never does; and the vocals/lyrics are kind of really bland - how many songs in the last twenty years have you heard that have that sound to them? How many vocals have you heard that sound like that? How many videos have you seen of singers/bands walking through streets in a dramatic but pointless fashion? So many. How many songs have you heard that are similar to Scandinavia?
I think Johnny is a great guitar player but he needs inspiration and ideas, he needs someone to spark off.

The Morrissey album has untold depths and is full of life. It has all the qualities that only great songwriters can accomplish. And it has that strain of genius that sets it apart. It may not be what some fans wanted, but there it is and it's a beautiful piece of work by a master of his craft.

 

[Maurice E Maher]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Interesting result - if you'd asked me 18 months ago when Marr was previewing the song The Messenger, and Morrissey was still touting People Are The Same as his the pinnacle of 4 years of post-YOR songwriting, I would've said Marr was better by a mile. But, 3 or 4 songs aside, the Marr album was full of sludge, and the Moz album is full of zing. Who knew!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

I can really only answer this on an emotional level. I saw Johnny on his tour last year, and it was a great, fun show. He's got a whole lot of charisma on stage. Andy came out and played a couple of songs, which was a real rush—I had a feeling it would happen, but standing 5 feet away from half of the Smiths was a pretty thrilling experience.

That said, I cannot imagine putting on a JM record just to listen to. I bought the Messenger and it's perfectly fine, but it doesn't have that thing that I need music to have in order for it to become a part of my life. I liked Electronic a lot, but I think that's due more to Bernard than Johnny…and even then, I can't think of the last time I put Electronic on.

But Morrissey…it's never enough. I always want more. His songs have the thing that I need in my life, they always have. I don't know how that breaks down on a technical level in terms of songwriting expertise, but for this gal's ears/heart, it's always going to be Moz.

(And yes, I realize I answered this without taking the musicians into account. That's an honest answer from me, though—it's always going to come down to Morrissey, no matter who's writing the music.)

Pretty much sums it up for me to a T.

dn

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

As for the new album being the work of a producer: the producer hasn't come up with the melodies which are in abundance, nor has he come up with the structures which really are incredible. The producer hasn't come up with Morrissey's incredible vocals, which if you listened closely are extremely impressive; nor has he played the instruments, the strings, the accordion, the acoustic guitar, the electric guitar, the drums (listen to One of Our Own).

You seem not to be very knowledgeable about what a producer actually does. Along with the band and Morrissey himself, the producer will have a HUGE impact on how the finished song sounds, suggesting and arranging the layers of instruments and pulling the mix together. Take a song like 'Neal Cassady Drops Dead'. Take it down to it's basic musical level and it's incredibly threadbare: a very simple and straightforward series of 4 chords that repeats over and over and over. In the hands of a lesser producer this song could have ended up boring as f***, but the manner in which it's been recorded and arranged makes it interesting. How much of this song's success is down to the initial music writer? In this instance, I'd say very little. It sounds like something Gustavo threw together in 60 seconds, and has no intrinsic musical value. but it's been put together and recorded in a very interesting way.

Not all the songs on 'World Peace' are as musically straightforward and basic as that, but there are a number. It would be an overstatement to call them turds that have been lovingly polished by the production until they look (or rather sound) good...but not MUCH of an overstatement.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

You seem not to be very knowledgeable about what a producer actually does. Along with the band and Morrissey himself, the producer will have a HUGE impact on how the finished song sounds, suggesting and arranging the layers of instruments and pulling the mix together. Take a song like 'Neal Cassady Drops Dead'. Take it down to it's basic musical level and it's incredibly threadbare: a very simple and straightforward series of 4 chords that repeats over and over and over. In the hands of a lesser producer this song could have ended up boring as f***, but the manner in which it's been recorded and arranged makes it interesting. How much of this song's success is down to the initial music writer? In this instance, I'd say very little. It sounds like something Gustavo threw together in 60 seconds, and has no intrinsic musical value. but it's been put together and recorded in a very interesting way.

Not all the songs on 'World Peace' are as musically straightforward and basic as that, but there are a number. It would be an overstatement to call them turds that have been lovingly polished by the production until they look (or rather sound) good...but not MUCH of an overstatement.

No, you're overstating the role of the producer (and under-estimating the songs here). The brilliance of 'Neal Cassidy Drops Dead' is in the dynamic between the music (guitars as leading sparse rhythm + basic melody) and Morrissey's vocal, which alternates between that beautiful melodic inflection and picking up the basic rhythm. The beauty is in the interplay between basic rhythm and melody, between vocal and band, and it's all in the songwriting. The producer has given it a nice sheen, nothing more.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

No, you're overstating the role of the producer (and under-estimating the songs here). The brilliance of 'Neal Cassidy Drops Dead' is in the dynamic between the music (guitars as leading sparse rhythm + basic melody) and Morrissey's vocal, which alternates between that beautiful melodic inflection and picking up the basic rhythm. The beauty is in the interplay between basic rhythm and melody, between vocal and band, and it's all in the songwriting. The producer has given it a nice sheen, nothing more.

Alternation, inflection, interplay blah, blah, blah. Try pinpointing something specific, write with clarity and stop waffling.

 

[Jamie]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

You seem not to be very knowledgeable about what a producer actually does. Along with the band and Morrissey himself, the producer will have a HUGE impact on how the finished song sounds, suggesting and arranging the layers of instruments and pulling the mix together. Take a song like 'Neal Cassady Drops Dead'. Take it down to it's basic musical level and it's incredibly threadbare: a very simple and straightforward series of 4 chords that repeats over and over and over. In the hands of a lesser producer this song could have ended up boring as f***, but the manner in which it's been recorded and arranged makes it interesting. How much of this song's success is down to the initial music writer? In this instance, I'd say very little. It sounds like something Gustavo threw together in 60 seconds, and has no intrinsic musical value. but it's been put together and recorded in a very interesting way.

Not all the songs on 'World Peace' are as musically straightforward and basic as that, but there are a number. It would be an overstatement to call them turds that have been lovingly polished by the production until they look (or rather sound) good...but not MUCH of an overstatement.

After a few weeks of listening, I think these are very valid points. Even if one had not read the recent Joe Chiccarelli interview, it's patently obvious that a great deal of the album was built up and transformed in the studio. Neal Cassady is the exemplar of this. I wonder what the "Five Star Club" would say if the songs were stripped down to just his voice and two-three minutes of beating an acoustic guitar. I'm afraid some of these songs would seem quite thin. I've begun to have second thoughts about the efficacy of some of the production; I'm ready to step away from the album for a while.

 

[A none E mouse]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Retarded f***s voting for morrisseys tag alongs. They'll never be anybody's heroes.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Alternation, inflection, interplay blah, blah, blah. Try pinpointing something specific, write with clarity and stop waffling.

It's fairly plain English, my love. Can you not google the words you're having trouble with? If you don't like the song, fine. If you can't recognise a beautifully written song using only the most basic elements and the dynamic between them, fine. It's nothing to be ashamed of or get angry about. Some people just really want good old fashioned meat and potatoes conventional stuff that they can easily recognise as A SONG because they've heard the formula a million times from countless '80s/'90s indie rock outfits; and they want only this from Morrissey; while others are relishing this much more sophisticated and confident approach to trying new things, and writing awesome songs in the process.
He has a team of songwriters now who have proven on this album how far ahead of the game they are and how thrilling it is to hear!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Retarded f***s voting for morrisseys tag alongs. They'll never be anybody's heroes.

Your attempts to not come across as a 12 year old, which only make you come across as every other 12 year old trying not to seem like one is so endearing. x

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

it's patently obvious that a great deal of the album was built up and transformed in the studio. Neal Cassady is the exemplar of this. I wonder what the "Five Star Club" would say if the songs were stripped down to just his voice and two-three minutes of beating an acoustic guitar. I'm afraid some of these songs would seem quite thin.

I'm a fan of the album, but the production sheen adds a lot. If Morrissey performed an acoustic version of 'Neal Cassady' you'd soon realise that, musically, there's practically nothing there. What works, works only because of the production tricks, and Morrissey's voice.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

I'm a fan of the album, but the production sheen adds a lot. If Morrissey performed an acoustic version of 'Neal Cassady' you'd soon realise that, musically, there's practically nothing there. What works, works only because of the production tricks, and Morrissey's voice.

If you performed The Rite of Spring on an acoustic guitar you'd realise there was 'nothing there' - it's all dressed up in the orchestra.
No wonder they got some ballet dancers to prance around on stage to divert attention.

 

[A none E mouse]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Your attempts to not come across as a 12 year old, which only make you come across as every other 12 year old trying not to seem like one is so endearing. x

Well that's the nicest thing anybody's ever said to me

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

Well that's the nicest thing anybody's ever said to me

No, seriously. Stop trying too hard, love. No one your age realises it at the time, but it's always so painfully obvious, as it's just so common.
Relax. Be yourself.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Who, in 2014, has the best musical songwriting skills? Johnny Marr or the Morrissey song compose

It's fairly plain English, my love. Can you not google the words you're having trouble with? If you don't like the song, fine. If you can't recognise a beautifully written song using only the most basic elements and the dynamic between them, fine. It's nothing to be ashamed of or get angry about. Some people just really want good old fashioned meat and potatoes conventional stuff that they can easily recognise as A SONG because they've heard the formula a million times from countless '80s/'90s indie rock outfits; and they want only this from Morrissey; while others are relishing this much more sophisticated and confident approach to trying new things, and writing awesome songs in the process.
He has a team of songwriters now who have proven on this album how far ahead of the game they are and how thrilling it is to hear!

"Sophisticated", "confident" and "awesome". So nothing specific, then? Great.

The music on this record could hardly be more "conventional". It isn't exactly Stockhausen.

(Also, if you want to affect lofty disdain convincingly, you need to find out more about semi-colons to avoid their misuse.)