Just How Great Is Viva Hate?

[Agharta]

The title says it all really - I'd be very interested to hear everyone's views on Morrissey's debut solo album.

Personally, I think it's his finest work as a solo artist. As an ardent 17 year old Smiths fan, I loved it when it was released, and 25 years on, as a broken 42 year old, I still love it. I think it's a timeless, poetic, resonant and evocative masterpiece that he hasn't improved on since.

That said, I do think that the 2012 remaster was very badly handled. Although the sonics were improved somewhat, there was nothing wrong with them in the first place, and the butchering of 'Late Night, Maudlin Street' and replacement of 'Ordinary Boys' with 'Treat Me Like A Human Being' were spectacular misjudgements by Morrissey (as Stephen Street has himself said). I remember reading a hilarious comment at the time that Moz was doing a George Lucas on the album, and I think thats pretty much on the nail.

I'll weigh in with a lot more words on the album shortly, as I want to do it justice and don't have the time right now. But in the meantime, please feel free to air your own opinions - be they good, bad or ugly - on the album.

 

[Thomas__Dunn]

It could be his best work, but it isn't my favourite. I felt he was still finding his solo-career feet, the album itself seemed quite raw to me, maybe that is part of its charm but I have enjoyed some of his other albums more.

 

[Life_Is_A_Pigsty]

Viva Hate is indeed great, probably his 2nd or 3rd best solo album after Vauxhall, I also think it was better than Morrissey's previous involvement with a studio album - Strangeways, Here We Come.

Both Viva Hate and Kill Uncle are opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to quality, but both albums are very different from the albums that followed.

I totally agree with the comments on the re-issue, The Ordinary Boys was a great track!

 

[the raytownian]

The color of the album cover pretty much encapsulates the mood of that record perfectly.
Sleepy, somber and surreal... Icy and isolated... It's also very blue, like a dark cobalt, and sometimes blue-grey, or even a drab cyrillian-seafoam.

To say the least, it's pretty monochromatic.

People complain about Kill Uncle a lot, but I like it for a lot of similar reasons. It's very... Autumnal.
I wouldn't use this word to describe Viva Hate, but it has a comparable emotional and almost supernatural effect on me. Both albums are awfully dreary, but that's a major part of their appeal for me. Listening to them evokes a particular sad, dream-like emotional state.

Beauty of decay, clove cigarettes, walking through cemeteries before dawn. All that jazz.

 

[Agharta]

The color of the album cover pretty much encapsulates the mood of that record perfectly.
Sleepy, somber and surreal... Icy and isolated... It's also very blue, like a dark cobalt, and sometimes blue-grey, or even a drab cyrillian-seafoam.

To say the least, it's pretty monochromatic.

People complain about Kill Uncle a lot, but I like it for a lot of similar reasons. It's very... Autumnal.
I wouldn't use this word to describe Viva Hate, but it has a comparable emotional and almost supernatural effect on me. Both albums are awfully dreary, but that's a major part of their appeal for me. Listening to them evokes a particular sad, dream-like emotional state.

Beauty of decay, clove cigarettes, walking through cemeteries before dawn. All that jazz.

What a lovely description! Thanks so much for sharing those thoughts.

As for the 'colour' of the album, I always associate it with the browns and greys of Britain in the 1970s, since so many of the songs seem steeped in that time frame.

I wonder out loud if the album has more resonance with those of us who grew up in England during that period, or if it still makes sense to Americans or other nationalities, or those from later generations? As a child of the seventies from the Midlands, I can connect instantly with that sense of drab melancholy and outsider-looking-in aspect which permeates the songs like a heavy fog.

 

[the raytownian]

Ha. I was actually on the verge of using "brown" to describe KU.

I can't claim to understand how either album feels to a native Briton, but I grew up in rural southern United States, which has its own charming ugliness, conflicting cultural elements and sense of isolation.

Actually, despite living most of my early life in a very small rural town, I spent a good amount of time in small southern cities as well, and I made a blurb about it elsewhere on the forum (second half of the first post) if you're at all interested:
http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/131421-The-Benjamin-Smoke-quot-Smoke-quot-appreciation-thread

EDIT: I just read the post only to realize I never said much about the actual environment, so I posted a link to the documentary at the end for anyone who's interested. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

I like Viva Hate but I think Vauxhall and Arsenal are better.

 

[Agharta]

Ha. I was actually on the verge of using "brown" to describe KU.

I can't claim to understand how either album feels to a native Briton, but I grew up in rural southern United States, which has its own charming ugliness, conflicting cultural elements and sense of isolation.

Actually, despite living most of my early life in a very small rural town, I spent a good amount of time in small southern cities as well, and I made a blurb about it elsewhere on the forum (second half of the first post) if you're at all interested:
http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/131421-The-Benjamin-Smoke-quot-Smoke-quot-appreciation-thread

EDIT: I just read the post only to realize I never said much about the actual environment, so I posted a link to the documentary at the end for anyone who's interested. Sorry.

Very interesting, thanks for the link. Must check out Ben Smoke's music.

As for Viva Hate, 'Everyday Is Like Sunday' is perhaps the ultimate 'Isn't Britain shit?' song. The way Morrissey transplants Betjeman's Slough to the off-season seaside coast is breathtaking, a triumph of run down melancholy that transcends its parochialism.

 

[FER]

Viva Hate was his best album. Until Vauxhall was released.

Yet, it has still clung to number 2 despite all these years! And no, WPINOYB is not a better album.

 

[Agharta]

Viva Hate was his best album. Until Vauxhall was released.

Yet, it has still clung to number 2 despite all these years! And no, WPINOYB is not a better album.

I like Vauxhall a lot, but find it too patchy and lacking in the lyrical bite and precision that VH displays.

 

[Jamie]

The US edition was strengthened by having Hairdresser On Fire on side two, but I suspect that was a disservice to the arc of the album as intended by Morrissey. Side two feels like one character's memories advancing through his life, from primary school to young adulthood - or, at least, looking back at those portions of his life. If this were valid, the same narrator/character appears to age from Break Up The Family to The Ordinary Boys to Dial-a-Cliche.

However, if Morrissey had put Hairdresser on the original album, the album could have ended on a higher note by flipping Dial-a-Cliche before I Don't Mind If You Forget Me and switching out Margaret On The Guillotine (a B-side, if ever there was one) for I Know Very Well How I Got My Name. It loses the punchline of the blade falling, but adds a wistful note keeping in tone with much that preceded.

I know the misinterpretation - or loose, agenda-serving interpretations, to be kind - of Bengali in Platforms has done the song hard by in his canon, but I've always loved it. The notes Vini Reilly plays with the bounce-back echo on the chorus are very beautiful. So much has already been said about the other, many high-water marks. I was disgusted that he removed The Ordinary Boys - far from the weakest track on side two - for Treat Me Like a Human Being on the reissue.

 

[Nikita]

I always thought the B side is weak. The album sounds great until Suedehead, and suddenly the level goes down although I kinda like the other songs too, but it does not really work.

I have the same problem with Ringleader, great until Life is a Pigsty and then ...

 

[Librarian On Fire]

I went searching to find a girlfriend who looked just like Lucette in the "Everyday Is Like Sunday" video. I never found her, but I did once own a rainjacket like the one she wore in the video. I lived within that album in only the way you can do when younger. Before adulthood came along. I would play it daily. Side one, flip the record side two. Over and ove. Days sitting in a cold lounge of my parent's house where the stereo was. The jewel of that album is "Late Night Mauldin Street". The sheer beauty, loneliness and forlen hope in Morrissey's most moving song. It still remains my favourite Morrissey album and is miles better than "Vauxhall and I".

An album to be cremated with.

 

[fredkocherpepsi]

Viva Hate is an excellent album. On the other thread where his LP's were ranked, I put it 3rd behind Arsenal and Vauxhall. I never understood why Moz was so intent on re-jiggering the tracklist when he does these reissues. But at the same time, I like it because it gives me extra reason not to get rid of the original!

 

[eyeball]

I'm meh about the slower songs like dial a cliche, margaret on the guillotine, bengali in platforms
I love alsatian cousin (but the guitar annoys me) and ordinary boys
angel angel and every day is like sunday are the best songs in the history of songs period
"rejection is one thing but rejection from a fool is cruel" one of my favorite morrissey lyrics : )
I'm sick of suedehead I've heard it so. many. times.

that is all.

 

[FER]

I like Vauxhall a lot, but find it too patchy and lacking in the lyrical bite and precision that VH displays.

Respectfully, I have to completely disagree with your assertion that Vauxhall "lacks the lyrical bite and precision..." To me its an almost perfect album that saw him at the height of his powers. He wrote and sang with control, confidence and maturity. Not to say he had not done anything great previously but there was not a consistency. (Seasick would be a good example of work that stands head and shoulders above everything else he did within a period) Above all, it really serves to show just how bad his decline has been. I mean have you heard the new album? Some of his writing is absolutely ghastly. "Beefaroni" - seriously!?!?! It completely lacks the wit and humor he once had.

Anyways, back to the topic. If anything, "Late Night, Maudlin Street" on its own makes VH one of his best albums, I just consider that Vauxhall as a whole reaches higher highs.

Thats my two cents.

 

[Orson Swells]

Viva Hate is a good album, 3/4 of a great one. I remember standing in the queue at Wolverhampton listening to fans absolutely slating it! It has two classic singles and one great album track in Maudlin Street. The second half dips and desperately needs Hairdersser and I Know Very Well. Post-Suedehead its a slow decline, the last three tracks in particular not being up to the quality of the rest. An entertaingly flawed album. Not as good as Arsenal, Vauxhall, Quarry, or World Peace, of course.

 

[fredkocherpepsi]

Viva Hate is a good album, 3/4 of a great one. I remember standing in the queue at Wolverhampton listening to fans absolutely slating it! It has two classic singles and one great album track in Maudlin Street. The second half dips and desperately needs Hairdersser and I Know Very Well. Post-Suedehead its a slow decline, the last three tracks in particular not being up to the quality of the rest. An entertaingly flawed album. Not as good as Arsenal, Vauxhall, Quarry, or World Peace, of course.

I am curious where, over time, I will rank WPINOYB.

 

[Orson Swells]

I am curious where, over time, I will rank WPINOYB.

Me too! I just know I find it fantastically enjoyable. But these things can often change over time.

 

[Anonymous]

him good question. its probably around my fourth fav morrissey solo album. i really like the music and the guitar playing is superb but the lyrics never really resonated though i thought them extremely well done. i guess i just never saw myself in any of viva hates songs or characters the way i do other albums like arsenal or even bona drag. im an american though and i didnt get into the smiths, morrissey solo, until i was twenty two and thats in the early oo's so i might have generated an appreciation for, or attachment to, a different side of morrissey i. e. the more angry extroverted v.s the lonely disappointed lover (though of course i love those songs as well)