The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so good?

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Anonymous

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It will rank, surely, as one of the greatest mysteries of the modern era.
How on earth did a bunch of blokes who'd spent the previous 10 years churning out mediocre, chug-rock indie-pop write an album full of rich and frequently beautiful music with sky-tickling melodies, innovative arrangements and, at times, virtuoso musicianship?
Does a producer really make that much difference?
Was it Gustavo's influence? The early signs were positive. Gustavo is a proper, song-writing musical composer, not just some tokenistic indie-bloke session guitarist who can knock a few chords together, and stick a fuzzy, unmemorable guitar line over the top. But, rather bafflingly, many of the new album's highlights were written by the much maligned J Tobias. How did he manage to up his game so dramatically?
It's obviously great news for us fans - it's what we've longed for, for years. But how did it happen?
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Magic.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Drugs
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Has to be a combination of factors - Gustavo is a new variable thrown into the mix which has to cause influence. As was the new producer, surely he has lots of input too. For Jesse's songs...maybe it's that he had that much more time to really come up with some good stuff and all the chug-rock got consigned to the floor. Growing as an artist? If there is another album after this that will tell us more. For Boz is feels more like a return to form, he went through a reasonably bland patch. Maybe Morrissey pushed them a little harder to up the creativity and was a lot pickier over what they submitted to him?

Otherwise, yeah, magic.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Real answer:

What Pokey said. I will also add that it’s been 5 years since the last album so for all we know there could be a plethora of songs that didn’t make the cut.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

It will rank, surely, as one of the greatest mysteries of the modern era.
How on earth did a bunch of blokes who'd spent the previous 10 years churning out mediocre, chug-rock indie-pop write an album full of rich and frequently beautiful music with sky-tickling melodies, innovative arrangements and, at times, virtuoso musicianship?

Does a producer really make that much difference?

Was it Gustavo's influence? The early signs were positive. Gustavo is a proper, song-writing musical composer, not just some tokenistic indie-bloke session guitarist who can knock a few chords together, and stick a fuzzy, unmemorable guitar line over the top. But, rather bafflingly, many of the new album's highlights were written by the much maligned J Tobias. How did he manage to up his game so dramatically?
It's obviously great news for us fans - it's what we've longed for, for years. But how did it happen?

yes, he does!!
he pushes the 'right buttons', but nothing could be achieved if morrissey doesn't know how to choose such talented partners/coworkers, as well.
my opinion.


p.s. apologies
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Well 95% of the songs I love on this album are cowritten by Boz Boorer.
Only ones not written by Boz that I like are The Bullfighter Dies and Kick The Bride

Can't stand the Gustavo contributions
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

It was the producer and Morrissey's choice of the producer.

In the mid-late 90s Moz started to really love the Smoking Popes. So he made albums that sounded like that, which also sounded like polished generic Green Day poppunk tripe (there wasn't anything indie about that sound) which most here seemed to love.

He had Tony V continue that trend but add in orchestral and choral bombast and high treble, what old men think is cool, percussion.

I think Morrissey has listened to the new (and old) Scott Walker stuff, or some post-punk classics and some MOR music recently. The pace has slowed. The percussion is tasteful, it only comes in as needed. Really cool/weird sound design. The guitars only play jangly hooks or ambient noise/screeches, no more barred rhythm guitar chords chugging throughout the songs. More focus on other instruments, really as much as the guitars. I really can't believe I'd hear another album of Moz's where the melodies from the music are equally as good as his vocals; I haven't heard that since Southpaw Grammar. Bravo. If you add in the bonus tracks this is my favorite album of his since Your Arsenal.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Interesting stuff - I didn't think a producer could make that much difference, and I'm still not really convinced.
The new songs sounded brilliant live especially the jangly Bullfighter and the pleasing flamenco strum of Earth.
Remember, the same person produced Morrissey's most critically acclaimed album (V&I) and two of his most duff (SG and M).
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

It was the producer and Morrissey's choice of the producer.

In the mid-late 90s Moz started to really love the Smoking Popes. So he made albums that sounded like that, which also sounded like polished generic Green Day poppunk tripe (there wasn't anything indie about that sound) which most here seemed to love.

He had Tony V continue that trend but add in orchestral and choral bombast and high treble, what old men think is cool, percussion.

I think Morrissey has listened to the new (and old) Scott Walker stuff, or some post-punk classics and some MOR music recently. The pace has slowed. The percussion is tasteful, it only comes in as needed. Really cool/weird sound design. The guitars only play jangly hooks or ambient noise/screeches, no more barred rhythm guitar chords chugging throughout the songs. More focus on other instruments, really as much as the guitars. I really can't believe I'd hear another album of Moz's where the melodies from the music are equally as good as his vocals; I haven't heard that since Southpaw Grammar. Bravo. If you add in the bonus tracks this is my favorite album of his since Your Arsenal.

I do often wonder if Jerry Finn was chosen by Moz because of his (excellent) work on “Destination Failure”. However, I know Moz was a fan of “Born To Quit” which wasn’t done with Jerry.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

I think all the factors cited above were influential. I have to believe Morrissey asked for different music - or became more open to fresher, less orthodox compositions. Alain had also been a safety net on the last two albums; without him, I think Boz and Jesse were forced to raise their game.
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

I think all the factors cited above were influential. I have to believe Morrissey asked for different music - or became more open to fresher, less orthodox compositions. Alain had also been a safety net on the last two albums; without him, I think Boz and Jesse were forced to raise their game.[/

Maybe this was the cryptic comment re: finally the follow-up to Viva Hate? (We know Mozzer is not a fan of Kill Uncle)

ie first Album without Mr. whyte?

Anyway after the last 5 or 6 years of mostly drab songs and tired set lists I feared the worst....


Never underestimate the Moz!
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

It was the producer and Morrissey's choice of the producer.

In the mid-late 90s Moz started to really love the Smoking Popes. So he made albums that sounded like that, which also sounded like polished generic Green Day poppunk tripe (there wasn't anything indie about that sound) which most here seemed to love.

He had Tony V continue that trend but add in orchestral and choral bombast and high treble, what old men think is cool, percussion.

I think Morrissey has listened to the new (and old) Scott Walker stuff, or some post-punk classics and some MOR music recently. The pace has slowed. The percussion is tasteful, it only comes in as needed. Really cool/weird sound design. The guitars only play jangly hooks or ambient noise/screeches, no more barred rhythm guitar chords chugging throughout the songs. More focus on other instruments, really as much as the guitars. I really can't believe I'd hear another album of Moz's where the melodies from the music are equally as good as his vocals; I haven't heard that since Southpaw Grammar. Bravo. If you add in the bonus tracks this is my favorite album of his since Your Arsenal.
I made this comment before and no one cared, but I'll swing again -
Since Morrissey came out publicly in support and praise for Young The Giant four or five years ago - they (YTG) have become a 'family' fave band in my house hold. At that time YTG had only one album (self titled debut), which in places (Apartment, Guns Out) sounded very Smith-esque. This album was produced by Joe Chiccarelli. I am convinced (and always will be) that this is when Moz decided who would produce his next album.
YTG - should have stuck w/ Joe for their second album ...
 
Re: The new Morrissey album - how did the music get so ... good?

Never heard Young The Giant but this statement above has me intrigued.
 
Perhaps they were always writing tunes of this quality and Morrissey simply passed them over.
 
It will rank, surely, as one of the greatest mysteries of the modern era.
How on earth did a bunch of blokes who'd spent the previous 10 years churning out mediocre, chug-rock indie-pop write an album full of rich and frequently beautiful music with sky-tickling melodies, innovative arrangements and, at times, virtuoso musicianship?
Does a producer really make that much difference?
Was it Gustavo's influence? The early signs were positive. Gustavo is a proper, song-writing musical composer, not just some tokenistic indie-bloke session guitarist who can knock a few chords together, and stick a fuzzy, unmemorable guitar line over the top. But, rather bafflingly, many of the new album's highlights were written by the much maligned J Tobias. How did he manage to up his game so dramatically?
It's obviously great news for us fans - it's what we've longed for, for years. But how did it happen?

Sorry,but I think your assessment is a bit off.

Some of us who are guitar players, (and I also play piano and can read and write music, I don't just throw fuzzy chords together), but some us guitar players actually like some of the songs with a bit of rocking guitar crunch. Don't forget Morrissey is and has always been more along the lines of Indie pop if not full blown Indie pop. I don't know if its the songwriting or what,but Jessy seems to always be getting picked on. His job isn't that easy. There are a ton of riffs and fills he has to play on most of the songs while playing live. Yes one aspect is the heavy guitar chording from time to time, but a lot of what he plays is coloring around Boz playing rhythm on an acoustic guitar or only slightly crunchy electric. With the amount of fills he has to play it sometimes can almost be like one big long guitar solo in itself. And keep in mind how many songs between older songs of Moz and Smith songs are they playing that Jessy actually had a hand in writing? So for him to play all of the guitar riffs pretty much note for note perfectly, regardless if you think there is too much overdrive to his sound or not is pretty impressive.

And from a guitar player's perspective believe it or not Jessy is considered to get pretty good tone for that particular Alternative Indie distorted guitar style,compared to a lot of other guitar players out there. He uses a lot of boutique hand made small company made guitar effect pedals and the same goes for the amps that he uses. As for Boz I'm pretty sure he has an endorsement deal with Blackstar amps, which at best are mediocre entry priced tube amps. Blackstar doesn't really get into any of the real pricey hand wired stuff that most touring professionals play these days. But I get it,he's pushing there amps. Boz uses mostly vintage amps when they record anyways, which are hand wired.

I've always really liked the Moz sound,(which I;ll explain), more or less hasn't changed that much sine Your Arsenal, (exception being,most of the ballads on Vauxhall). But even those ballads on Vaux sound similar to the mellower songs from each subsequent release. I personally prefer the circa 1994-1997 sounds of songs like Now I am a was,Know body loves us,You must Remember,Lost,Sunny and their two B-sides etc... To me the ultimate perfect blend of both Heavy guitar Moz and more mellow guitar Moz would be the studio version of Triouble Loves Me. It has the haunting piano chord verses and then of course has its moments of exploding guitars. I believe Boz wrote that one. And I highly doubt Boz is out of Ideas. I remember reading an interview where Alain said sometimes he and Boz will send over 30 to 50 instrumental tracks each, and it more or less depends on how many of those inspire melodies for Moz to sing over. So I think your wrong in stating Boz is out of ideas. If anything Moz has lost a bit of vocal range and maybe even some of his ability to keep up with his carter spanning standards of extremely intense,passionate hooks?? As I say in another post, for thje first time ever I wasn't immediately wowed by any of the melodies on this new album. I usually will get those goose bumps and be drawn into at least a couple of tracks straight away on a new Moz album, and I just didn't get it. Most Moz albums always had a few amazing tracks that you loved pretty m,uch the moment you listened,you didn't need time for them to grow on you,which a lot of people are saying myself somewhat included.

But I've always thought even with (Jessy entering the picture) that Morrissey has a particular sound which, more or less has stayed roughly the same since Your Arsenal. The songwriting is so strong that your guaranteed to get a good strong rhythm section of drumming and bass playing. Then I've always enjoyed the typical Moz arrangement of usually an acoustic guitar thumping some rhythm chords in the background, one of the electric guitars playing some filler more notey riffs,(a lot of times with a tremolo effect being used), and then the 2nd electric guitar keeping the rhythm with a bit of distorted guitar, and depending on the song, Jesse (mostly),but sometimes Boz and he will switch when it comes time for a song's guitar solo. On top of all of the beautiful guitar sounds, you then have the keyboards,usually playing some nice acoustic or electric piano, with a few synth stabs here and there overdubbed on top. Besides some of the early solo songs having a bit of synth because it was still the keyboard days of the 80's after all, Morrissey's music has used much more synths from Quarry onward. Ever since was it Mikey? The original Quarry comeback era keyboardist had one of the modern day Moog Voyager analog synths amongst his keyboard rig, there has been loads of synths on every record Quarry and beyond.

I'm also willing to bet with the Gustavo penned Neil Cassidy, and its heavy chunky guitar,that there is a good chance that Gustavo also plays guitar and writes songs on both keys and guitar? Myself being a musician personally the basic chord structures to the new album's songs sound pretty typical Morrissey to me. What seems to be different is just slightly less overdriven guitars and the amount of clean "spanish type", guitar solo's and fills helps to amplify (so to speak), the fact that the sound is less guitar driven. I for one was a bit let down with Art Hounds. The live version was killer,with tons of energy compared to the studio version.

It seems like since the negative reactions to Kill Uncle and the general consensus that it was to tame; I don't know if Moz had intended to follow that album up with a more guitar driven album? But, having coincidentally hooked up with more of a band,(Alain, Boz,Spencer and Gary), rather than session guys from the first two solo albums,and its Bona drag compilation b-sides he now was able to get a more cohesive raw live band sound which subsequently became the guitar heavier Your Arsenal album. Due to Moz's love for guitar driven glam rock the heavier guitar sound worked.

Perhaps on this new album between the producer and Moz/Boz, (I include Boz because he is the musical director and probably has a say in some of the arrangements or at least its his job to get as close to whatever sound Morrissey probably describes he wants to try and go for per song). But I'm sure they consciously said lets go a little less guitar heavy since the last few records were all very guitar mad. To me perhaps because the album's overall feel could have consciously been discussed some of the arrangements sound a little forced and too busy; I think for some of the songs the more stripped back guitar driven sound would have suited them better. Keep in mind too, a lot of songwriters will make a sketch demo of a song first which a lot of the times will be stripped down and feature pretty much acoustic instruments. Even some of the more guitar heavy songs off the last few albums could have gotten their start being more on the mellow side,and sometimes vice versa. Sometimes too song arrangements can be spontaneously changed just before they are recorded. Lots of variables,so who knows without asking them if they had an overall sound they were going for or if they just took the recording of the album song by song and it ended up the way that it did?

In the end I like an album that is a happy medium of both guitar driven songs and more mellower songs. And agree with me or not, I think the album that best does that is You are the Quarry. I don't know how much of those recordings if any Jessy was involved in as I'm pretty sure Alain Whyte despite not touring with the group anymore still had a heavy hand writing a bunch of the Quarry songs,no? I got rid of all my Cd's and booklets when I went completely digital a few years back so I can't look up Jessy's recording involvement on Quarry,but I'm sure someone will know? I do think Alain played on the album though if I remember right?

But I think your assessment was slightly off.
 
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Sorry,but I think your assessment is a bit off.

Some of us who are guitar players, (and I also play piano and can read and write music, I don't just throw fuzzy chords together), but some us guitar players actually like some of the songs with a bit of rocking guitar crunch. Don't forget Morrissey is and has always been more along the lines of Indie pop if not full blown Indie pop. I don't know if its the songwriting or what,but Jessy seems to always be getting picked on. His job isn't that easy. There are a ton of riffs and fills he has to play on most of the songs while playing live. Yes one aspect is the heavy guitar chording from time to time, but a lot of what he plays is coloring around Boz playing rhythm on an acoustic guitar or only slightly crunchy electric. With the amount of fills he has to play it sometimes can almost be like one big long guitar solo in itself. And keep in mind how many songs between older songs of Moz and Smith songs are they playing that Jessy actually had a hand in writing? So for him to play all of the guitar riffs pretty much note for note perfectly, regardless if you think there is too much overdrive to his sound or not is pretty impressive.

And from a guitar player's perspective believe it or not Jessy is considered to get pretty good tone for that particular Alternative Indie distorted guitar style,compared to a lot of other guitar players out there. He uses a lot of boutique hand made small company made guitar effect pedals and the same goes for the amps that he uses. As for Boz I'm pretty sure he has an endorsement deal with Blackstar amps, which at best are mediocre entry priced tube amps. Blackstar doesn't really get into any of the real pricey hand wired stuff that most touring professionals play these days. But I get it,he's pushing there amps. Boz uses mostly vintage amps when they record anyways, which are hand wired.

I've always really liked the Moz sound,(which I;ll explain), more or less hasn't changed that much sine Your Arsenal, (exception being,most of the ballads on Vauxhall). But even those ballads on Vaux sound similar to the mellower songs from each subsequent release. I personally prefer the circa 1994-1997 sounds of songs like Now I am a was,Know body loves us,You must Remember,Lost,Sunny and their two B-sides etc... To me the ultimate perfect blend of both Heavy guitar Moz and more mellow guitar Moz would be the studio version of Triouble Loves Me. It has the haunting piano chord verses and then of course has its moments of exploding guitars. I believe Boz wrote that one. And I highly doubt Boz is out of Ideas. I remember reading an interview where Alain said sometimes he and Boz will send over 30 to 50 instrumental tracks each, and it more or less depends on how many of those inspire melodies for Moz to sing over. So I think your wrong in stating Boz is out of ideas. If anything Moz has lost a bit of vocal range and maybe even some of his ability to keep up with his carter spanning standards of extremely intense,passionate hooks?? As I say in another post, for thje first time ever I wasn't immediately wowed by any of the melodies on this new album. I usually will get those goose bumps and be drawn into at least a couple of tracks straight away on a new Moz album, and I just didn't get it. Most Moz albums always had a few amazing tracks that you loved pretty m,uch the moment you listened,you didn't need time for them to grow on you,which a lot of people are saying myself somewhat included.

But I've always thought even with (Jessy entering the picture) that Morrissey has a particular sound which, more or less has stayed roughly the same since Your Arsenal. The songwriting is so strong that your guaranteed to get a good strong rhythm section of drumming and bass playing. Then I've always enjoyed the typical Moz arrangement of usually an acoustic guitar thumping some rhythm chords in the background, one of the electric guitars playing some filler more notey riffs,(a lot of times with a tremolo effect being used), and then the 2nd electric guitar keeping the rhythm with a bit of distorted guitar, and depending on the song, Jesse (mostly),but sometimes Boz and he will switch when it comes time for a song's guitar solo. On top of all of the beautiful guitar sounds, you then have the keyboards,usually playing some nice acoustic or electric piano, with a few synth stabs here and there overdubbed on top. Besides some of the early solo songs having a bit of synth because it was still the keyboard days of the 80's after all, Morrissey's music has used much more synths from Quarry onward. Ever since was it Mikey? The original Quarry comeback era keyboardist had one of the modern day Moog Voyager analog synths amongst his keyboard rig, there has been loads of synths on every record Quarry and beyond.

I'm also willing to bet with the Gustavo penned Neil Cassidy, and its heavy chunky guitar,that there is a good chance that Gustavo also plays guitar and writes songs on both keys and guitar? Myself being a musician personally the basic chord structures to the new album's songs sound pretty typical Morrissey to me. What seems to be different is just slightly less overdriven guitars and the amount of clean "spanish type", guitar solo's and fills helps to amplify (so to speak), the fact that the sound is less guitar driven. I for one was a bit let down with Art Hounds. The live version was killer,with tons of energy compared to the studio version.

It seems like since the negative reactions to Kill Uncle and the general consensus that it was to tame; I don't know if Moz had intended to follow that album up with a more guitar driven album? But, having coincidentally hooked up with more of a band,(Alain, Boz,Spencer and Gary), rather than session guys from the first two solo albums,and its Bona drag compilation b-sides he now was able to get a more cohesive raw live band sound which subsequently became the guitar heavier Your Arsenal album. Due to Moz's love for guitar driven glam rock the heavier guitar sound worked.

Perhaps on this new album between the producer and Moz/Boz, (I include Boz because he is the musical director and probably has a say in some of the arrangements or at least its his job to get as close to whatever sound Morrissey probably describes he wants to try and go for per song). But I'm sure they consciously said lets go a little less guitar heavy since the last few records were all very guitar mad. To me perhaps because the album's overall feel could have consciously been discussed some of the arrangements sound a little forced and too busy; I think for some of the songs the more stripped back guitar driven sound would have suited them better. Keep in mind too, a lot of songwriters will make a sketch demo of a song first which a lot of the times will be stripped down and feature pretty much acoustic instruments. Even some of the more guitar heavy songs off the last few albums could have gotten their start being more on the mellow side,and sometimes vice versa. Sometimes too song arrangements can be spontaneously changed just before they are recorded. Lots of variables,so who knows without asking them if they had an overall sound they were going for or if they just took the recording of the album song by song and it ended up the way that it did?

In the end I like an album that is a happy medium of both guitar driven songs and more mellower songs. And agree with me or not, I think the album that best does that is You are the Quarry. I don't know how much of those recordings if any Jessy was involved in as I'm pretty sure Alain Whyte despite not touring with the group anymore still had a heavy hand writing a bunch of the Quarry songs,no? I got rid of all my Cd's and booklets when I went completely digital a few years back so I can't look up Jessy's recording involvement on Quarry,but I'm sure someone will know? I do think Alain played on the album though if I remember right?

But I think your assessment was slightly off.


I forgot to add, if the last ten years was just turning out mediocre chug rock, why did you continue to listen and remain an active fan as a member of Morrissey-Solo? If thats all it was, there surely must have been better stuff you would have rather listened to? I think there has been a lot of amazing songs in the past ten years that are right on par and just as good as some of the best Pre Quarry material. Every album is going to have a few dogs or fillers but you can't tell me everything over the last ten years was mediocre??
 
Jesse had nothing to do with 'You Are The Quarry' - it was before he joined the band, so that was all Alain & Boz.
 
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