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Thread: Holistic Medicine

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsverycold View Post
    I would suggest the book bad science by ben goldacre to anybody who believes in some of the nonsense propogated in this thread.
    Fascinating that you KNOW this after reading a book, I thought these things were based on scientific evidence. Do you have any?

    Maybe some of us wanna try things and see if there is any truth in it or if it works for us. For me oil pulling has worked in that it makes the environment in the mouth cleaner. It feels like after a visit to the dentist every day after they have removed plaque. I haven't done it long enough to see if it whitens the teeth but I am not that interested in having whiter teeth as that can be fixed in other ways and many do these days.

    I read about the importance of using the muscles in the face more and you certainly get a workout with oil pulling which is also good for you. I think what this method does is provide oil and moisture to the gums. We are often told to provide moisture to our skin so why would the gums be any different. This way is better than using those coloured mouthwashes as dental experts have now condemned those as they simply do not work and may even give you darker teeth and that happened to my girlfriend when using mouthwash.

    People have reported better eyesight and without saying too much I have experienced that in the last couple of days. But the best part is that I can now use the toilet every day and feel much better for it as a regular visit is a sign that you are ok. I believe in the proven science but I also believe in simple methods that fall out of that category. If you wanna improve something then try and see if it works for you or not. I did in the case of oil pulling and it helps me to keep my teeth and gums feeling much better than they did before.

    When my girlfriend have visited her dentist in the near future I will come back and report if her dentist found anything or made any comment before we tell her what method we have been using.

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  2. #22
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Fascinating that you KNOW this after reading a book, I thought these things were based on scientific evidence. Do you have any?

    Maybe some of us wanna try things and see if there is any truth in it or if it works for us. For me oil pulling has worked in that it makes the environment in the mouth cleaner. It feels like after a visit to the dentist every day after they have removed plaque. I haven't done it long enough to see if it whitens the teeth but I am not that interested in having whiter teeth as that can be fixed in other ways and many do these days.

    I read about the importance of using the muscles in the face more and you certainly get a workout with oil pulling which is also good for you. I think what this method does is provide oil and moisture to the gums. We are often told to provide moisture to our skin so why would the gums be any different. This way is better than using those coloured mouthwashes as dental experts have now condemned those as they simply do not work and may even give you darker teeth and that happened to my girlfriend when using mouthwash.

    People have reported better eyesight and without saying too much I have experienced that in the last couple of days. But the best part is that I can now use the toilet every day and feel much better for it as a regular visit is a sign that you are ok. I believe in the proven science but I also believe in simple methods that fall out of that category. If you wanna improve something then try and see if it works for you or not. I did in the case of oil pulling and it helps me to keep my teeth and gums feeling much better than they did before.

    When my girlfriend have visited her dentist in the near future I will come back and report if her dentist found anything or made any comment before we tell her what method we have been using.
    Cool. Maybe I should give it another try. I didn't like the dizziness afterward, I think that's why I quit. It only lasts a few seconds but it's eerie that swishing oil in your mouth can cause that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Playcat2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Okay, I tried the oil pulling thing last night. Did anyone else vomit?

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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Swishing oil around my mouth first thing in the morning? I vomited at the idea.

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterb View Post
    Swishing oil around my mouth first thing in the morning? I vomited at the idea.
    No you do it at night before you go to bed, I think very few if any recommend it in the morning. I got dizzy the first few days but not now and it might be that people tend to swish too hard. Just do it relaxed without getting pains in your facial muscles. The dizzy feeling may be the swishing or it may be a reaction to the toxins in your mouth, This is up for debate and no one is really sure.

    If some people keep feeling dizzy then perhaps they have more fillings or have subjected themselves to toxins through what they have eaten or been drinking. For some people the swishing may lead to them having harder to breathe and this may of course be the cause of the dizzy feeling afterwards. For me this method is just a way to clean out the mouth properly without using any mouthwash or other products.

    Too keep your teeth in good condition you have to start with the gums cause they are always a sign if you are doing things right or not. Most people are unaware about the condition of their gums and the importance of it.

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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Fascinating that you KNOW this after reading a book, I thought these things were based on scientific evidence. Do you have any?
    It is fascinating, isn't it? Imagine the temerity of reading something and giving an opinion based on what you've read. Fascinating.

    I don't have any scientific evidence that swirling oil around your mouth will improve your health in all the ways you claim it will, no. Do you?

    Also, what are these "toxins" you keep mentioning? Because i don't think you know.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Uncleskinny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Fascinating that you KNOW this after reading a book, I thought these things were based on scientific evidence. Do you have any?

    Maybe some of us wanna try things and see if there is any truth in it or if it works for us. For me oil pulling has worked in that it makes the environment in the mouth cleaner. It feels like after a visit to the dentist every day after they have removed plaque. I haven't done it long enough to see if it whitens the teeth but I am not that interested in having whiter teeth as that can be fixed in other ways and many do these days.

    I read about the importance of using the muscles in the face more and you certainly get a workout with oil pulling which is also good for you. I think what this method does is provide oil and moisture to the gums. We are often told to provide moisture to our skin so why would the gums be any different. This way is better than using those coloured mouthwashes as dental experts have now condemned those as they simply do not work and may even give you darker teeth and that happened to my girlfriend when using mouthwash.

    People have reported better eyesight and without saying too much I have experienced that in the last couple of days. But the best part is that I can now use the toilet every day and feel much better for it as a regular visit is a sign that you are ok. I believe in the proven science but I also believe in simple methods that fall out of that category. If you wanna improve something then try and see if it works for you or not. I did in the case of oil pulling and it helps me to keep my teeth and gums feeling much better than they did before.

    When my girlfriend have visited her dentist in the near future I will come back and report if her dentist found anything or made any comment before we tell her what method we have been using.
    You haven't got the first idea what you are talking about. You use vague terms rather than scientific fact. The thing about gums being moisturised just show the depth of your ignorance. It's quite plainly utterly ridiculous. Seems you have constructed your own truth because science didn't fit your worldview.

    P.

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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    You haven't got the first idea what you are talking about. You use vague terms rather than scientific fact. The thing about gums being moisturised just show the depth of your ignorance. It's quite plainly utterly ridiculous. Seems you have constructed your own truth because science didn't fit your worldview.

    P.

    Exactly that , Skin. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence at all ....

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    You haven't got the first idea what you are talking about. You use vague terms rather than scientific fact. The thing about gums being moisturised just show the depth of your ignorance. It's quite plainly utterly ridiculous. Seems you have constructed your own truth because science didn't fit your worldview.

    P.
    But I said all along I do trust science but that I also wanna prove methods that may one day be based on science. I do this cause others tried it and noticed an improvement. I don't know why people get so upset but it seems many people live in fear on the untried and no one is forced to use these methods but some of us gladly do to see if it works or not. Trial and error was the start of all scientific studies that later became scientific facts.

    In the case of the gums and moisture that is one explanation that still might be true or it may not. I was merely speculating and one day maybe they will prove I was right or that I was wrong. Since I know you work in the scientific field more or less I am shocked at your own ignorance and one would think you'd be more open to scientific challenges but I guess not.

    You say it is ridiculous which means you claim to know it does not work so please present the evidence and I will believe you.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Uncleskinny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    But I said all along I do trust science but that I also wanna prove methods that may one day be based on science. I do this cause others tried it and noticed an improvement. I don't know why people get so upset but it seems many people live in fear on the untried and no one is forced to use these methods but some of us gladly do to see if it works or not. Trial and error was the start of all scientific studies that later became scientific facts.

    In the case of the gums and moisture that is one explanation that still might be true or it may not. I was merely speculating and one day maybe they will prove I was right or that I was wrong. Since I know you work in the scientific field more or less I am shocked at your own ignorance and one would think you'd be more open to scientific challenges but I guess not.

    You say it is ridiculous which means you claim to know it does not work so please present the evidence and I will believe you.
    Evidence for what? I'm not claiming anything works, you are. Goalpost shifting. You're asking me to prove something undefined doesn't work when you say that something undefined does. Set some parameters, lay out your materials, concentrations, ingredients, contact times - you know, normal experimental stuff, then we can talk. Otherwise it's pointless.

    P.

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  11. #31
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    Evidence for what? I'm not claiming anything works, you are. Goalpost shifting. You're asking me to prove something undefined doesn't work when you say that something undefined does. Set some parameters, lay out your materials, concentrations, ingredients, contact times - you know, normal experimental stuff, then we can talk. Otherwise it's pointless.

    P.
    I can't find the link (read: I'm not looking very hard for it bc I have other stuff to do irl) but there was a "scientific" study done at the request of some dentists that indicated that the long exposure of the oil on the PLAQUE build-up broke down the plaque and as it was sloughed away it slowed the gums rate of recession. I think by "moisture" this anonymous poster means that the plaque is moisturized by the oil and it softens the plaque allowing it to dissolve. It doesn't happen in a day though, it take weeks, but the study was conclusive that oil pulling broke down plaque which is the leading cause of gum disease so IS effective in that regard. The test results were inconclusive regarding toxicity and other ailments not related directly to teeth and gums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

  12. #32
    Senior Member Uncleskinny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalGeezer View Post
    I can't find the link (read: I'm not looking very hard for it bc I have other stuff to do irl) but there was a "scientific" study done at the request of some dentists that indicated that the long exposure of the oil on the PLAQUE build-up broke down the plaque and as it was sloughed away it slowed the gums rate of recession. I think by "moisture" this anonymous poster means that the plaque is moisturized by the oil and it softens the plaque allowing it to dissolve. It doesn't happen in a day though, it take weeks, but the study was conclusive that oil pulling broke down plaque which is the leading cause of gum disease so IS effective in that regard. The test results were inconclusive regarding toxicity and other ailments not related directly to teeth and gums.
    The only thing that moisturises something is water. Any claims to the contrary are bullplop. Emulsions of glyceryl esters as lotions trap water which does the same job causing to hang around longer. Oil on its own, in an enviroment with a constantly replenishing water source, will not. You need a peer reviewed study on these things or no scientist will take the slightest bit of notice.

    P.

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  13. #33
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    The only thing that moisturises something is water. Any claims to the contrary are bullplop. Emulsions of glyceryl esters as lotions trap water which does the same job causing to hang around longer. Oil on its own, in an enviroment with a constantly replenishing water source, will not. You need a peer reviewed study on these things or no scientist will take the slightest bit of notice.

    P.
    Goo-b-gone is oil that breaks down sticky stuff. Plaque is sticky stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

  14. #34
    Senior Member Uncleskinny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalGeezer View Post
    Goo-b-gone is oil that breaks down sticky stuff. Plaque is sticky stuff.
    Yes, but all kinds of things can be sticky. They can be polysaccharides like bacterial breakdown products, slightly emulsified fats, fats themselves, hydrocolloids - some of which are hydrophobic and some of which are hydrophilic, so it doesn't necessarily follow that a fat dissolver will dissolve all gel-like substances - in fact this is precisely why washing powders and tablets contain lipases and protease enzymes - to break down the substances the surfactants can't emulsify or the alkalis can't hydrolyse.

    P.

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  15. #35
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holistic Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    Yes, but all kinds of things can be sticky. They can be polysaccharides like bacterial breakdown products, slightly emulsified fats, fats themselves, hydrocolloids - some of which are hydrophobic and some of which are hydrophilic, so it doesn't necessarily follow that a fat dissolver will dissolve all gel-like substances - in fact this is precisely why washing powders and tablets contain lipases and protease enzymes - to break down the substances the surfactants can't emulsify or the alkalis can't hydrolyse.

    P.
    Yeah...well there's that too. I mean, hello?

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

  16. #36
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    And with that I end my participation in this debate as it has ended with anger and animosity and that is not worth it for me. I wanna thank CG who opened my eyes to this and oil pulling was just the start of finding many other methods that I will try in the near future as an alternative to other more proven methods that often cost more and includes a visit to a doctor. I avoid doctors and hospitals and pharmacies as long as I can as they simply do not work like they once did due to modern demands that lowered the quality. I went with my girlfriend to a doctor that gave her the wrong prescription and when we asked her why she felt we should be grateful to get any help at all as that was how it was like in her home country.

    I don't think I like the term holistic medicine as the medicine part has to do with science and this is not until it is proven to work and then it becomes something else. I prefer to call it holistic methods or alternatives as that is what it is. It is not medicine and when it becomes medicine then it is not in the holistic field anymore so just forget the medicine part. You do not clean teeth with medicine.

    Take care all and have a nice weekend.

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncleskinny View Post
    Yes, but all kinds of things can be sticky. They can be polysaccharides like bacterial breakdown products, slightly emulsified fats, fats themselves, hydrocolloids - some of which are hydrophobic and some of which are hydrophilic, so it doesn't necessarily follow that a fat dissolver will dissolve all gel-like substances - in fact this is precisely why washing powders and tablets contain lipases and protease enzymes - to break down the substances the surfactants can't emulsify or the alkalis can't hydrolyse.

    P.
    I don't wanna eat what you eat P.

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  18. #38
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    Having used the oil swishing method for many weeks now I have to inform you of a new phenomenon. I spit it out in the toilet after I am done and in the toilet by the waterlevel there are growing absolute black germs or bacteria. This did not happen before and I have not done any other changes. Since i flush the toilet well after spitting it out I doubt the oil can make things grow so I am baffled by what it can be.

    I now have to clean the toilet more often as this black layer turns up every now and then and I have no idea what it is.

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  19. #39
    My secret's my enzyme. CrystalGeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Having used the oil swishing method for many weeks now I have to inform you of a new phenomenon. I spit it out in the toilet after I am done and in the toilet by the waterlevel there are growing absolute black germs or bacteria. This did not happen before and I have not done any other changes. Since i flush the toilet well after spitting it out I doubt the oil can make things grow so I am baffled by what it can be.

    I now have to clean the toilet more often as this black layer turns up every now and then and I have no idea what it is.
    The two times I did it I spit it in the sink because I wanted to "see" the toxins. All I saw was foamy oil...but it removed the enamel from the sink. No joke. I discovered this the other day when I went to clean the sink and there was a trail where I rinsed it down the sink but apparently not thoroughly enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalGeezer View Post
    The two times I did it I spit it in the sink because I wanted to "see" the toxins. All I saw was foamy oil...but it removed the enamel from the sink. No joke. I discovered this the other day when I went to clean the sink and there was a trail where I rinsed it down the sink but apparently not thoroughly enough.
    You see the same thing in the toilet and I do not think the sink is the place to spit it out. You have to use the toilet to flush it away properly but like I said before it does mean that something black will grow by the waterline in the toilet. So one needs to clean the toilet out more often.

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