Atheism Thread

[realitybites]

Since this picture is a kind of inverted ad hominem, I'll just say that if the poster-boys (and girls) for supposedly oppositional politics in 2013 are Ayn Rand, Harry Potter and Captain f***ing Kirk, there must be something seriously wrong with contemporary political culture.

Radical.

I see the intention behind the poster very differently. I think it was designed to be a public service message for all closeted atheists and agnostics... letting them know that they are not alone in their beliefs--that these famous, successful, intelligent, creative, respected, funny, and beautiful people are just like them.

I agree that Ayn Rand is not a great role model.

 

[Anonymous]

I see the intention behind the poster very differently.

It basically says, "Atheism is Cool!"

I think it was designed to be a public service message for all closeted atheists and agnostics... letting them know that they are not alone in their beliefs--that these famous, successful, intelligent, creative, respected, funny, and beautiful people are just like them.

I agree that Ayn Rand is not a great role model.

By talking about "closeted atheists and agnostics", you seem to imply that atheism is so threatening to the established order of things that at least some of those who adhere to it conceal their dissent for fear of repression. Isn't this doubly misleading? And where you see, "famous, successful, intelligent, creative, respected, funny, and beautiful people", I see lots of very posh people living very privileged lives; people who have done remarkably well out of said order of things and who want, despite their advantages, to feel (and want others to feel) that they are at least vaguely transgressive.

 

[realitybites]

It basically says, "Atheism is Cool!"



By talking about "closeted atheists and agnostics", you seem to imply that atheism is so threatening to the established order of things that at least some of those who adhere to it conceal their dissent for fear of repression. Isn't this doubly misleading? And where you see, "famous, successful, intelligent, creative, respected, funny, and beautiful people", I see lots of very posh people living very privileged lives; people who have done remarkably well out of said order of things and who want, despite their advantages, to feel (and want others to feel) that they are at least vaguely transgressive.

I think atheism is threatening to the established order. It is threatening to governmental and social policies that receive legitimacy from religious doctrines and texts. The caste system in India is a perfect example of this as is Sharia law in Muslim societies. But even in secular societies such as the US, where there is supposedly a separation of church and state, religion still plays a major part in shaping values and ethics... even public policies. Family planning, stem cell research, and marriage laws are all influenced by religion. If everyone were to toss out their religions and become atheists, these laws, policies, and ethics might change to reflect this. So yes, atheism threatens the established order. And atheism is no cooler than being gay. And not all atheists are good looking, successful, and famous. Just as not all gays are. But just like gays, many atheists feel alone and perhaps like pariahs in their communities. So for them it is comforting and encouraging to realize they are not alone... that non-freaks--people that society values--are atheists as well. And that these atheists can be found in all walks of life... including the upper strata. We could make a giant poster and put my mug on there... and the mugs of every atheist alive and deceased. That would be great... and truly more representative of the global atheist community. But it would seem silly. It would be like making a poster with the faces of every gay person that ever lived. Should we then make one for all Jews, Quakers, left-handed persons. Where does it stop?

I fear if you don't understand the spirit behind this campaign by now--from what I have said--then there is nothing more that I can add to help you see it for what it is.

 

[Anonymous]

I think atheism is threatening to the established order. It is threatening to governmental and social policies that receive legitimacy from religious doctrines and texts. The caste system in India is a perfect example of this as is Sharia law in Muslim societies. But even in secular societies such as the US, where there is supposedly a separation of church and state, religion still plays a major part in shaping values and ethics... even public policies. Family planning, stem cell research, and marriage laws are all influenced by religion. If everyone were to toss out their religions and become atheists, these laws, policies, and ethics might change to reflect this. So yes, atheism threatens the established order. And atheism is no cooler than being gay. And not all atheists are good looking, successful, and famous. Just as not all gays are. But just like gays, many atheists feel alone and perhaps like pariahs in their communities. So for them it is comforting and encouraging to realize they are not alone... that non-freaks--people that society values--are atheists as well. And that these atheists can be found in all walks of life... including the upper strata. We could make a giant poster and put my mug on there... and the mugs of every atheist alive and deceased. That would be great... and truly more representative of the global atheist community. But it would seem silly. It would be like making a poster with the faces of every gay person that ever lived. Should we then make one for all Jews, Quakers, left-handed persons. Where does it stop?

I fear if you don't understand the spirit behind this campaign by now--from what I have said--then there is nothing more that I can add to help you see it for what it is.

I think you have a little too much faith in atheism.

 

[realitybites]

I think you have a little too much faith in atheism.

I have no faith in atheism. I have non-belief in a god(s)

 

[Anonymous]

I have no faith in atheism. I have non-belief in a god(s)

Your previous post suggests otherwise.

I have non-belief in a god(s)

Yes. You've already said that. Contrary to what you seem to think, nobody cares.

 

[realitybites]

Your previous post suggests otherwise.



Yes. You've already said that. Contrary to what you seem to think, nobody cares.

If nobody cares, does that make you a nobody. See the irony here?

 

[Anonymous]

If nobody cares, does that make you a nobody. See the irony here?

No, but I see a really bad attempt at humour. Why do you think I care if you're an atheist?

 

[realitybites]

No, but I see a really bad attempt at humour. Why do you think I care if you're an atheist?

I wasn't trying to be funny. I was being my usual serious self. I don't think that you care if I am an atheist. But surely you have an interest in this subject. And before you say otherwise, let me overcome your objection. The Internet is a huge playground, this website is vast... has many threads... and the amount of posts here number in the hundreds--daily. So if you didn't care about atheism/religion, why take the time to read posts in this thread? There are so many other things to read and respond to out there.

 

[Anonymous]

I wasn't trying to be funny.

Ah. Just a straightforward ad hominem this time then. Cool.

I was being my usual serious self.

And I do take you seriously, I promise.

I don't think that you care if I am an atheist.

Of course you do. You think that people not only care when you say "God doesn't exist" etc. etc., but that they are shocked and upset by those sentiments. They aren't.

But surely you have an interest in this subject. And before you say otherwise, let me overcome your objection. The Internet is a huge playground, this website is vast... has many threads... and the amount of posts here number in the hundreds--daily. So if you didn't care about atheism/religion, why take the time to read posts in this thread? There are so many other things to read and respond to out there.

I'm not really sure why you would presume that I was going to say that I have no interest in the subject. In any event, if amusement at how seriously you take this trivia counts as "interest", then I plead guilty as charged.

 

[Black]

Oooh, good stuff in this thread.

 

[realitybites]

Ah. Just a straightforward ad hominem this time then. Cool.

Was I attacking your personhood? I aimed to point out the hairline fracture in your previous statement.

And I do take you seriously, I promise.

Do I detect a little sarcasm there?

Of course you do. You think that people not only care when you say "God doesn't exist" etc. etc., but that they are shocked and upset by those sentiments. They aren't.

I think you misread what I wrote. I said, I don't think that you care if I am an atheist.

I don't think you care if I believe in a god or not. You have nothing to gain or lose by my lack of belief. And this may be hard for you to believe, but I really do not post things in this thread to shock people. I don't think anything I have posted so far is shocking at all. If I wanted to get a visceral reaction from strangers I would flash them from the passenger side of a moving vehicle. Now that would be something! Ha!

I'm not really sure why you would presume that I was going to say that I have no interest in the subject. In any event, if amusement at how seriously you take this trivia counts as "interest", then I plead guilty as charged.

Well, obviously we both have an interest in the subject. I think we can agree on that.

 

[Anonymous]

Was I attacking your personhood? I aimed to point out the hairline fracture in your previous statement.

When you said, "If nobody cares, does that make you a nobody. See the irony here?", you certainly seemed to be saying, that I care about whether you're an atheist and that I - according to what I'd said in the preceding post - am a nobody, so I think the answer to your question is yes.

Do I detect a little sarcasm there?

Well, yes and no. I was just being rude for the sake of it really, which isn't very Christian of me, I know. (People are complicated and often inconsistent. For example, I read the Bible, but I also use electricity without experiencing any degree of moral or cognitive dissonance.) You're obviously very intelligent and well-read etc., but I just can't take this evangelical atheism seriously.

I think you misread what I wrote. I said, I don't think that you care if I am an atheist.

I don't think you care if I believe in a god or not. You have nothing to gain or lose by my lack of belief. And this may be hard for you to believe, but I really do not post things in this thread to shock people. I don't think anything I have posted so far is shocking at all.

Admittedly, I haven't read very much of this thread, but I don't think anything you've said (that I've seen) is shocking. However, I do think that you think other people find your beliefs shocking and, more than that, I think you want them to be shocked. For example, when, on the previous page, you used a pejorative phrase like "silly superstitions" to describe Christian beliefs, or when you depicted hell in positive terms with references to being allowed to "have sex on Sundays with people of the same sex", it's pretty clear that you were aiming to be - at the very least - inflammatory.

If I wanted to get a visceral reaction from strangers I would flash them from the passenger side of a moving vehicle. Now that would be something! Ha!

It might be a better use of your time; I'm sure there are Christians who'd pay good money to see that.

Well, obviously we both have an interest in the subject. I think we can agree on that.

I think I'm interested in the subject, but only tangentially.

Anyhow, I must now to bed. Uncle Fred is calling me

 

[realitybites]

When you said, "If nobody cares, does that make you a nobody. See the irony here?", you certainly seemed to be saying, that I care about whether you're an atheist and that I - according to what I'd said in the preceding post - am a nobody, so I think the answer to your question is yes.

OK, guilty as charged. I did attack you... and your position. Can you blame me? Wasn't it the perfect set up? Tell me you wouldn't have done the same.

Well, yes and no. I was just being rude for the sake of it really, which isn't very Christian of me, I know. (People are complicated and often inconsistent. For example, I read the Bible, but I also use electricity without experiencing any degree of moral or cognitive dissonance.) You're obviously very intelligent and well-read etc., but I just can't take this evangelical atheism seriously.

Well, that is what cherry picking is for... to help with the cognitive dissonance. Most religious practitioners are quite adept at this... they take what works and ignore the rest. Only the fundamentalists seem to be unable or unwilling to do this. I take it you are not a fundamentalist. Good to know. There is some flexibility in you... and me as well. I am not a fundamentalist or evangelical... not at all. I have no doctrine, no code, no goal, no agenda... and do not wish to convert a single soul.

Admittedly, I haven't read very much of this thread, but I don't think anything you've said (that I've seen) is shocking. However, I do think that you think other people find your beliefs shocking and, more than that, I think you want them to be shocked. For example, when, on the previous page, you used a pejorative phrase like "silly superstitions" to describe Christian beliefs, or when you depicted hell in positive terms with references to being allowed to "have sex on Sundays with people of the same sex", it's pretty clear that you were aiming to be - at the very least - inflammatory.

All this talk... really, if I am to be honest, is more out of a need to express myself. I don't want to shock, offend, hurt, or humiliate anyone. At the same time, I don't try to be politically correct. I feel that religiosity should be open to criticism because it is an achieved status not an acquired one. The believer has chosen to believe. And traits that are chosen are fair game for critique and even scorn. If I dye my hair purple, you are free to laugh as hard as you like. But if I am left with one arm, laughter seems cruel and inappropriate. You get the picture, I'm sure. But something tells me you don't agree.

Anyhow, if there is any purpose to my posts, it is simply to inform and educate... to pass on information... to be a transmitter... a messenger. People can take it or leave it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter... to me and my life.

It might be a better use of your time; I'm sure there are Christians who'd pay good money to see that.

Yes, weren't those Roman ticket holders who paid good money to watch the gladiators tear each other to pieces in the Colosseum arena, Christians? They did/do like a good, gory, titillating show. I'll keep that in mind. Of course, they will have to be cherry picking Christians.

I think I'm interested in the subject, but only tangentially.

Anyhow, I must now to bed. Uncle Fred is calling me

Tell Fred that Jeeves says, hello.

 

[realitybites]

 

[realitybites]

 

[Anonymous]

Last I checked Hitler was "stopped." Now that doesn't mean Jesus, Apollo, or the Easter Bunny stopped him any more than that picture you found means anything. Sometimes I feel sorry for you but you're quite annoying.

 

[realitybites]

Last I checked Hitler was "stopped." Now that doesn't mean Jesus, Apollo, or the Easter Bunny stopped him any more than that picture you found means anything. Sometimes I feel sorry for you but you're quite annoying.

At least I'm not anonymous.

 

[Skylarker]

Last I checked Hitler was "stopped." Now that doesn't mean Jesus, Apollo, or the Easter Bunny stopped him any more than that picture you found means anything. Sometimes I feel sorry for you but you're quite annoying.

Well, yes, he was "stopped"...after he killed millions of people. God's chosen people, if you want to be technical, not to mention biblical, about it.

Anyway, I think that was the point of her post.

 

[realitybites]

Well, yes, he was "stopped"...after he killed millions of people. God's chosen people, if you want to be technical, not to mention biblical, about it.

Anyway, I think that was the point of her post.

Thanks!