Morrissey & Gender

[Anonymous]

Will Self, from The Importance Of Being Morrissey: "I think alot of men respond to it at a homoerotic level. I think it speaks to the homosexual aspect in a lot of heterosexual men."

Perhaps because of his comments on feminism and masculinism a lot has been said and written about Morrissey's specific appeal to heterosexual men. Is this a romantic myth that has arisen around him? What effect, if any, do you think feminist thought has had on his work & persona? Considering he once said 'I feel closer to transgenderism than anything else' do you think Morrissey could be described as a female artist? I remember an article written by Christopher Hitchens in Vanity Fair here* where he discusses solemnity as a female trait in arguing that women aren't funny. Morrissey uses dirty puns and wordplay in his writing, often with homoerotic overtones - yet a large part of his appeal seems to be his claim to seriousness and sensitivity. Therein lies an aspect of his irony. In Gavin Hopp's recent book he describes Camp as being 'a disguise that fails' - what relation do you think this has to Morrissey's approach to gender? Discuss.

*http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...hitchens200701

Please define what you mean by the term "gender". You are mixing feminin, masculin, female and male up so that the term needs definition from your part to make clearer what you mean and what you want to discuss. You also add sex into the equation so that you'd have to tell us what you mean by homoerotic and homosexual aspect.

[Worm]

Will Self, from The Importance Of Being Morrissey: "I think alot of men respond to it at a homoerotic level. I think it speaks to the homosexual aspect in a lot of heterosexual men."

Perhaps because of his comments on feminism and masculinism a lot has been said and written about Morrissey's specific appeal to heterosexual men. Is this a romantic myth that has arisen around him? What effect, if any, do you think feminist thought has had on his work & persona? Considering he once said 'I feel closer to transgenderism than anything else' do you think Morrissey could be described as a female artist? I remember an article written by Christopher Hitchens in Vanity Fair here* where he discusses solemnity as a female trait in arguing that women aren't funny. Morrissey uses dirty puns and wordplay in his writing, often with homoerotic overtones - yet a large part of his appeal seems to be his claim to seriousness and sensitivity. Therein lies an aspect of his irony. In Gavin Hopp's recent book he describes Camp as being 'a disguise that fails' - what relation do you think this has to Morrissey's approach to gender? Discuss.

*http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...hitchens200701

Feminist thought has influenced him tremendously, but mainly as a paradigm for what masculinity can be. Even in a fanciful, figurative sense, he cannot be called a "female". Also, you're forgetting that whereas, at different times in his adventures with the media, Morrissey might flirt with revealing a dominant female side, he also frequently flirts with "revealing" another secretive side, a "true" side that isn't male or female but monstrous, or unhuman, or "papier-mache". I think Morrissey would say the "disguise that fails" is not his "costume" as a man, but his costume as a human being. Ironically, of course, but then your question assumes a strong dose of irony in play.

Hitchens' essay on women (one of his more fatuous and ungenerous efforts, by the way) is irrelevant because of the simple fact that Morrissey is extremely funny.

[Anonymous]

Feminist thought has influenced him tremendously, but mainly as a paradigm for what masculinity can be. Even in a fanciful, figurative sense, he cannot be called a "female". Also, you're forgetting that whereas, at different times in his adventures with the media, Morrissey might flirt with revealing a dominant female side, he also frequently flirts with "revealing" another secretive side, a "true" side that isn't male or female but monstrous, or unhuman, or "papier-mache". I think Morrissey would say the "disguise that fails" is not his "costume" as a man, but his costume as a human being. Ironically, of course, but then your question assumes a strong dose of irony in play.

Hitchens' essay on women (one of his more fatuous and ungenerous efforts, by the way) is irrelevant because of the simple fact that Morrissey is extremely funny.

You claim that Morrissey might flirt with revealing a dominant female side. What do you mean by "female side"? Please also define the terms gender, feminine, masculine, female and male and please add what you think feminist thought and masculinity means.

[Anonymous]

I want to add that this website is used by people from all around the world and the understanding of the term gender varies. I learned it totally differently in my sociology seminars on the social construction of gender than anybody uses it here on this website. However I had a brief thought exchange via PM three years ago which revealed that the term has the same meaning to somebody at a Scandinavian university.

[Worm]

You claim that Morrissey might flirt with revealing a dominant female side. What do you mean by "female side"? Please also define the terms gender, feminine, masculine, female and male and please add what you think feminist thought and masculinity means.

[CrystalGeezer]

Are you suggesting that Morrissey's special purpose should be discussed outside the confines of gender identification?

[Worm]

Are you suggesting that Morrissey's special purpose should be discussed outside the confines of gender identification?

I'm saying that once again I have proven pathetically incapable of defending myself against the Internet and, since common sense won't save me, only a religious icon can rescue me from the forces of darkness.

Plus: remember when Steve Martin was funny?

[CrystalGeezer]

I'm saying that once again I have proven pathetically incapable of defending myself against the Internet and, since common sense won't save me, only a religious icon can rescue me from the forces of darkness.

Plus: remember when Steve Martin was funny?

Steve Martin's still funny...funny looking.

You know what's torture a little bit? Reading the comments on Steve Martin's facebook page. People use it to feed HIS LINES back at him to prove how funny THEY are, it's like a corner of hell. If I had a dollar for every time somebody posted "Welll Excuuuuuuuuuuse me!" on his facebook page I'd have enough gas money to drive to Bakersfield and try to pick up a scalped ticket. AND dinner too.

[prisoner77]

I believe Morrissey is developed and influenced by mostly feminine figures. Especially his reading matter during his teenage years. Woolf especially critisised man as self important and ludicrous. He seems close to his mother and her influence appears to be all affirming. The male charachters in his life are all encompassing of mummy boy killers, self loathers or effemimate outsiders

[stephsteph]

Dont know much about 'feminist thought' but I am a woman, and generally, Women dig Morrissey. Yes, homoerotic overtones , seriousness and sensitivity, he's camp, feminist, transgender. It's all good. Amen to this thread. How many times do we talk about gender on this goddamn site.