Do you believe that the MEN show will be Morrissey's only UK date of the year?

[Iona Mink]

If, for example, Morrissey said something about Madonna that could be seen as damaging to her character, should that opinion be censored?

On the whole I actually agree with you but this statement is pretty weak. The differences are

• This is a site which is about Morrissey. And as such his words would and should have greater value/importance/interest than that of a random anonymous poster
• that Madonna is a public figure and so is subject to more scrutiny than a private person.

It's apples and oranges when comparing the two.

[davidt]

On the whole I actually agree with you but this statement is pretty weak. The differences are

• This is a site which is about Morrissey. And as such his words would and should have greater value/importance/interest than that of a random anonymous poster
• that Madonna is a public figure and so is subject to more scrutiny than a private person.

It's apples and oranges when comparing the two.

I see what you are saying, things said about public figures are different. I just used it as an example of the type of thinking regarding censorship and 'damage to reputation'.

[CrystalGeezer]

If, for example, Morrissey said something about Madonna that could be seen as damaging to her character, should that opinion be censored?

If Morrissey's stage had a TOS that said things uploaded couldn't be "defamatory, vulgar and obscene," these are your words stipulated in section 1 of the TOS. The anonymous post is inappropriate by your definition, regardless of the parties involved. Free speech within the confines of not defaming another person.

[joe frady]

I don't know why but I always thought Joe was not a he but rather a she.

Troll!

What I am getting at is if what something someone said actually bothers you, or touches a nerve perhaps they are on to something. If it doesn't bother you at all and easily ignored or dismissed, then there wasn't any substance in it to begin with.

Trolls are effective if they cause a reaction which this post certainly did.

Sorry David, maybe this is the kind of rationale that message board moderators must deal in, but I've read this multiple times and it's just the most surreal logic.

[davidt]

If Morrissey's stage had a TOS that said things uploaded couldn't be "defamatory, vulgar and obscene," these are your words stipulated in section 1 of the TOS. The anonymous post is inappropriate by your definition, regardless of the parties involved. Free speech within the confines of not defaming another person.

Part of the post was obscene, part of it wasn't. I suppose I can add spoiler tags around the offensive parts if that would make the most sense as a compromise.

[CrystalGeezer]

Part of the post was obscene, part of it wasn't. I suppose I can add spoiler tags around the offensive parts if that would make the most sense as a compromise.

What part of the post was not obscene? How would you edit the post to reflect opinion?

[davidt]

What part of the post was not obscene? How would you edit the post to reflect opinion?

Do you see the edited post now?

[CrystalGeezer]

Do you see the edited post now?

Great. But the damage has been done to Joe's character since its been quoted. Your edit does not effect the quotes.

[davidt]

Great. But the damage has been done to Joe's character since its been quoted. Your edit does not effect the quotes.

Those who quoted are free to edit their own posts.

I don't understand this going on about 'character damage'. How can an anonymous post damage someone if there is nothing behind it? If I were to monitor and edit every post that had some sort of insult hurled at someone I would probably get little else done.

[Anonymous]

...damage has been done to Joe's character since its been quoted. Your edit does not effect the quotes.

Well David, while I certainly applaud and appreciate the venue you have provided that allows for free speech, I find this post was damaging to Joe Frady's reputation and not just an opinion, but an attack.

That is my opinion.

Here's my opinion: you need to get a fucking grip on yourself. Now that a handful of people have read a rude comment about somebody who posts on a message board, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think any of those people are going to go to bed tonight and lie awake into the small hours mulling it all over? Will they deliberate over the question of whether it is literally true that some otherwise anonymous character calling himself "Joe Frady" on the Internet would be a willing human toilet for Morrissey? Maybe they'll discuss it with friends and canvass their opinions? Perhaps, from that one post on a message board, a universal consensus will develop and Joe will be shunned by peers and acquaintances! Maybe he'll have to up sticks, move elsewhere and be forced to reinvent himself to avoid the ignominy of it all!

Yeah, it's possible. Maybe it's more realistic, though, to think that whoever read what I posted might take it as an exaggerated criticism of somebody whose love for a celebrity tends toward embarrassing obsequiousness and then move on.

[Maurice E]

There now, did that feel good?
I wasn't 'conned' into buying my tickets for the Manchester concert, because I never believed for a second that this would be the only UK date of 2012. Neither did you. And neither should any Morrissey fan who's been aware and around for the last 10 - 20 years.
I lie. You lie. "Everyone lies". Grow up and get used to it

This is a pretty new trick of Morrissey's. In 30 years of concerts, until 2011 he'd never claimed that the first announced date is to be the only one of the year and then gone back on his word.
The following quote is from Uncle Skinny, not me.
'I think there may be a lot of fan anger if it turns out not to be, seeing as the poster, TTY and the Facebook page have all said it is the only date.'
It's one extra concert that's been announced, rather than a whole string of dates, so I guess it could be worse.
But I'm getting really sick of Morrissey, having followed him closely for 22 years, which is why I hardly post here anymore.
I do still hope, however, that he manages to turn things around.

[CrystalGeezer]

Those who quoted are free to edit their own posts.

I don't understand this going on about 'character damage'. How can an anonymous post damage someone if there is nothing behind it? If I were to monitor and edit every post that had some sort of insult hurled at someone I would probably get little else done.

I understand what you're saying and I agree. It doesn't take a doctorate in linguistics to see that the intent of the post was not offered as an opinion, but rather malicious. That is what I have a problem with, justifying maliciousness as free speech. I'm not talking an insult, I'm talking about painting a very twisted picture for us to ponder that defames Joe's name. Joe is "the one whose mouth Morrissey pooped in" now. That is not free speech David. Surely you must see that.

[Maurice E]

I trust that joe won't be upset about such a petty insult.

*EDIT*
Personally I'm not happy reading Maurice E's post which he used a word deceived.
When Manchester Arena date announcement was made it was said that the only UK date in 2012, but Morrissy is entitled to change his mind.

And, personally, I'm not particularly happy that a moderator on this site can't even spell Morrissey's name correctly.
Morrissey tells everyone, using a number of different media, that Manchester will be his only show.
He then announces an extra concert, and you think the word 'deceived' is inappropriate.
Do you really, honestly, believe that you are fit to be a moderator?

[Kewpie]

And, personally, I'm not particularly happy that a moderator on this site can't even spell Morrissey's name correctly.
Morrissey tells everyone, using a number of different media, that Manchester will be his only show.
He then announces an extra concert, and you think the word 'deceived' is inappropriate.
Do you really, honestly, believe that you are fit to be a moderator?

OMG, just because I didn't use spell checker and misspelt Morrissey's name which upset a grumpy forum user.

I have to get a new pair of glasses.

It's not up to you to decide who is fit to be a forum moderator.

[smiler]

I suspect the reason you have allowed unregistered posting suddenly was because the forum/site has been rather quiet of late and the lack of traffic was putting you in a spin. Now banned posters can continue to post and you can make a handful of people appear like many more, alas i think you are probably slowly killing the site in the process.

It a shame to visit this site (which prides itself on being "free") and see it dominated by a handful of people who are fixed on picking and knocking Morrissey, always looking for the bad and the negative, baying for his retirement, enjoying his slightest misfortune and wishing him ill. Its always the same obsessed people and they usually claim to feel "let down" which is laughable, many of them are even moderators on this site. Look at the forums - this isn't freedom of speech and it isn't reflective of Morrissey fans, its become an anti-morrissey site and Davidt and co have shaped the content this way (perhaps without realising) probably because they can't get there own way, because Morrissey won't be their "friend" they stamp their feet and cry. The tone is far from "free" on this site and the front page leads the way and the TandC's are ignored when it suits. The moderators claim they haven't the time to moderate properly and yet they are always on here especially when there is something negative to say.

[davidt]

And, personally, I'm not particularly happy that a moderator on this site can't even spell Morrissey's name correctly.
Morrissey tells everyone, using a number of different media, that Manchester will be his only show.
He then announces an extra concert, and you think the word 'deceived' is inappropriate.
Do you really, honestly, believe that you are fit to be a moderator?

Typos on Morrissey's name and also personal opinions aren't a factor in moderation. Opposing opinions can be good. I agree with you on your point, the Manchester show was promoted as the only UK show, then suddenly a few months after tickets had gone on sale, it's not.

He could have at least acknowledged the previous statement, similar to how he acknowledged that he had broken the promise of never mentioning record labels again in his last statement.

[Anonymous]

I suspect the reason you have allowed unregistered posting suddenly was because the forum/site has been rather quiet of late and the lack of traffic was putting you in a spin. Now banned posters can continue to post and you can make a handful of people appear like many more, alas i think you are probably slowly killing the site in the process.

It a shame to visit this site (which prides itself on being "free") and see it dominated by a handful of people who are fixed on picking and knocking Morrissey, always looking for the bad and the negative, baying for his retirement, enjoying his slightest misfortune and wishing him ill. Its always the same obsessed people and they usually claim to feel "let down" which is laughable, many of them are even moderators on this site. Look at the forums - this isn't freedom of speech and it isn't reflective of Morrissey fans, its become an anti-morrissey site and Davidt and co have shaped the content this way (perhaps without realising) probably because they can't get there own way, because Morrissey won't be their "friend" they stamp their feet and cry. The tone is far from "free" on this site and the front page leads the way and the TandC's are ignored when it suits. The moderators claim they haven't the time to moderate properly and yet they are always on here especially when there is something negative to say.

Here, borrow my hanky.

[davidt]

I suspect the reason you have allowed unregistered posting suddenly was because the forum/site has been rather quiet of late and the lack of traffic was putting you in a spin. Now banned posters can continue to post and you can make a handful of people appear like many more, alas i think you are probably slowly killing the site in the process.

It a shame to visit this site (which prides itself on being "free") and see it dominated by a handful of people who are fixed on picking and knocking Morrissey, always looking for the bad and the negative, baying for his retirement, enjoying his slightest misfortune and wishing him ill. Its always the same obsessed people and they usually claim to feel "let down" which is laughable, many of them are even moderators on this site. Look at the forums - this isn't freedom of speech and it isn't reflective of Morrissey fans, its become an anti-morrissey site and Davidt and co have shaped the content this way (perhaps without realising) probably because they can't get there own way, because Morrissey won't be their "friend" they stamp their feet and cry. The tone is far from "free" on this site and the front page leads the way and the TandC's are ignored when it suits. The moderators claim they haven't the time to moderate properly and yet they are always on here especially when there is something negative to say.

Wrong about the traffic, I haven't made any decisions on the way the site works based on that.

And as for it not being free, are you suggesting I delete 'positive' posts from the site?

[smiler]

Typos on Morrissey's name and also personal opinions aren't a factor in moderation. Opposing opinions can be good. I agree with you on your point, the Manchester show was promoted as the only UK show, then suddenly a few months after tickets had gone on sale, it's not.

He could have at least acknowledged the previous statement, similar to how he acknowledged that he had broken the promise of never mentioning record labels again in his last statement.

Another good example of your negativity. Morrissey has made it very clear that he doesn't make long term plans, things change. He never directly made a promise (unlike in the example you chose when he actually stated "i promise not to mention it again" *record companies). In this instance (the only uk gig) it was just part of the announcement for the Manchester gig and wasn't a direct quote. Who knows who said it and if it was true at the time. yet you lot jump on this news with delight - look see he's a liar! The telling thing is that you appear to have missed the news that we get an extra gig! - thats good news right? Or would you rather have it that he never plays again. Has anyone actually come forward and said "i feel cheated i got a ticket and he lied". I am sure (if there really is someone like that out there) that they could get a refund if you ask or just sell the ticket on ebay they might make some money. But i am guessing that there is no such person and this is a none story created and nutured by the mods to make a (mute) point.

[Kewpie]

Another good example of your negativity. Morrissey has made it very clear that he doesn't make long term plans, things change. He never directly made a promise (unlike in the example you chose when he actually stated "i promise not to mention it again" *record companies). In this instance (the only uk gig) it was just part of the announcement for the Manchester gig and wasn't a direct quote. Who knows who said it and if it was true at the time. yet you lot jump on this news with delight - look see he's a liar! The telling thing is that you appear to have missed the news that we get an extra gig! - thats good news right? Or would you rather have it that he never plays again. Has anyone actually come forward and said "i feel cheated i got a ticket and he lied". I am sure (if there really is someone like that out there) that they could get a refund if you ask or just sell the ticket on ebay they might make some money. But i am guessing that there is no such person and this is a none story created and nutured by the mods to make a (mute) point.

joe frady posted that he didn't find Morrissey deceived him.

An anonymous user insulted him that he's a sycophant using derogatory language.

Some users demanded this particular derogatory comment should be deleted.

Then you jumped on the band wagon and started criticising site administrator and moderators.