Article: Stephen Street discusses Morrissey/Viva Hate - new interview at superdeluxeedition.com

[Worm]

entered the US Billboard charts at #35, with 13,000 units sold the first week.

Thanks.

So, let's see. I'll pull out an envelope and a pen and do some quick math.

In the United States, "Achtung Baby" went 8 times platinum, which is 8 million sold. "Viva Hate" was certified gold, topping 500,000 in sales.

If sales of VH are 1/16 those of AB, then the "Viva Hate" re-issue will be a comparable success if it sells...812 units in the U.S.

Totally achievable!

[Amy]

We're still talking about Morrissey, right? Not Iago?

Building on your thought, it might have been that Morrissey wanted to show Street the door after he realized Johnny wasn't coming back. Though Street might have asked for his full royalties early on in the process, the dispute may not have been relationship-threatening until later in 1988, or even early 1989. I say this because if Street was already angry about his one wittle point he wouldn't have recorded the follow-up singles with Mike and Andy. The matter was probably under discussion. Plus, from Smiths-era stories, I'm guessing business tangles took a long time to sort out. Remember Mike Joyce asking for copies of the financial records and not reviewing them for several months, for example? If anything, he may have wanted to break from Street as a final break from The Smiths, perhaps perceiving that "Viva Hate" was more or less the fifth Smiths album and it was time to make a full break from the past. Maybe that face-to-face conversation was too difficult.

But that's only if you buy the idea that Morrissey is actually that conniving. I don't think he is. His decisions could just as easily be explained by an awkward inability to sustain relationships.

Hmmm. I'm not convinced he really gave up on Johnny until Your Arsenal in '92, so I doubt he'd be elbowing Street out for sounding too Smithsy. It's possible, I guess - but nope, I'm sticking with my theory that he's a tight control freak

[smiler]

Am surpised that Stephen Street seems happy to make the same mistakes again. Firstly it may not be the best re-issue but it is Morrissey's album he can do what he likes and he deserves his full due credit. It appears Street priced himself out of the co-writer picture in the past arguing over fees and credits, which is a shame as they made some good songs. Seems like Streets ego kicked in, but time has showed us (as Streets writing has dried up and Morrissey's success has gone on and on) that he was actually onto a good thing at that point and should not have been greedy as he has surely lost out in the long run. Astonishingly he continues to be disloyal, why does he feel the need to say these thing that grab the headlines? "Butchered"...... "Trying to keep Morrissey happy – as a lot of people have discovered over the years – is quite a difficult thing to do. You’re walking on eggshells a lot of the time. It was draining"....... "contrary"..... - why doesn't he shut up and at the very least be professional. You can have creative differences in the studio but in the end it is Morrissey's album and he has the final creative say. Why bitch about it all in the press when you are meant to be promoting the album? - just say "We discussed it but it is his album and he has the final say but it was great being involved with him again blah blah". Stephen Street has alot to thank Morrissey for - he built his reputation on Morrissey's talent but you have to scan these pages to find a single gracious word.

Finally we can all criticise Morrissey for the way he handled himself personally, for his "contariness" and his tendancy to flounce, but what shouldn't be forgotton is that Morrissey was and perhaps still is, very fragile in terms of his mental health. He has had periods of very serious severe depression which will have made it very difficult to form and maintain "normal" relationships and to even function well on a day to day basis. He has been very candid about this. He is not a well man. The unhappiness, the aloneness, the isolation, it will grip you and shape you and direct your perception of the world and those around you (and inspire you). This is what Morrissey is (or was) like, he spied the world from under a little black cloud - his own personal black cloud and this is why we love him. What seems to have been forgotton is that you must accept the bad with the good - they are the same thing (because sometimes the black cloud illuminates). So don't be surpirsed if people found him difficult to get along with, mistrusting, awkward, singleminded or contary, I personally wouldn't have it any other way. Probably if you can remember those were actually some of the qualities that drew you to Morrissey in the first place (under another name) - because just like him you too were probably shy and sad once and those few who knew you would probably discribe you in similar terms - but then you grew up and you forgot how it feels and you got a job and a brand new trendy clutch bag and you made friends and compromised and started to look down your nose at the world and now you say things like "I am a Smiths fan but not a Morrissey fan" (like that makes sense) or you say "I love the songs but i really don't like the man" (like that makes sense) or you say "he has lost his way and he isn't the same" but the truth is that somewhere along the line you got happy, so you closed your eyes and your ears completely and you forgot how it feels to feel terrified and alone then you got comfy and stopped creating, much to the dismay of those around you and suddenly you woke up to find you'd lost all your compassion and now you can't tell the difference between shyness and aloofness and silence and snobbery anymore and you think people should just get a job and give themselves a shake - without realising it you have changed so much that even the word "sad" has a totally different meaning for you and you spend your days and nights bitching about the one that for some reason you can't shake out of your mind

[Anonymous]

The key phrase that Street uses here is "walking on eggshells". That is Streets' description of interacting with Morrissey.

That phrase is almost a diagnosis of "Borderline Personality Disorder". Walking on eggshells is such a common experience of those who have to deal with family or friends with BPD that a psychologist has written a book about BPD with that very title.

Google "Borderline Personality Disorder".

[FROSTY]

Thanks.

So, let's see. I'll pull out an envelope and a pen and do some quick math.

In the United States, "Achtung Baby" went 8 times platinum, which is 8 million sold. "Viva Hate" was certified gold, topping 500,000 in sales.

If sales of VH are 1/16 those of AB, then the "Viva Hate" re-issue will be a comparable success if it sells...812 units in the U.S.

Totally achievable!

HA HA HA!!! Brilliant! ..I know a few on the "collectors corner' that might buy all 812! ~Frost

[Worm]

Hmmm. I'm not convinced he really gave up on Johnny until Your Arsenal in '92, so I doubt he'd be elbowing Street out for sounding too Smithsy. It's possible, I guess - but nope, I'm sticking with my theory that he's a tight control freak

Except he felt "lost" before the ill-fated "Bona Drag" sessions. He changed his plea to guilty, for heaven's sake. Sounds like he gave up on Marr then.

I don't know why we are rehashing this stuff. Slow news decade, I guess.

[Anonymous]

If sales of VH are 1/16 those of AB, then the "Viva Hate" re-issue will be a comparable success if it sells...812 units in the U.S.

This V/H reissue is not being released in the US. If you're going to do a comparison it'll have to be against one that was considered a success in the UK. How did those Cure reissued albums do in the UK? Bob Smith did a pretty good job with those. Each one had a 2nd disc full of stuff. I believe the consensus at the time from that fanbase was that it was worth it to re-purchase those albums cause of all the extra goodies included. Anyone know how well those did at the register?

[CrookedLittleVein]

Am surpised that Stephen Street seems happy to make the same mistakes again. Firstly it may not be the best re-issue but it is Morrissey's album he can do what he likes and he deserves his full due credit. It appears Street priced himself out of the co-writer picture in the past arguing over fees and credits, which is a shame as they made some good songs. Seems like Streets ego kicked in, but time has showed us (as Streets writing has dried up and Morrissey's success has gone on and on) that he was actually onto a good thing at that point and should not have been greedy as he has surely lost out in the long run. Astonishingly he continues to be disloyal, why does he feel the need to say these thing that grab the headlines? "Butchered"...... "Trying to keep Morrissey happy – as a lot of people have discovered over the years – is quite a difficult thing to do. You’re walking on eggshells a lot of the time. It was draining"....... "contrary"..... - why doesn't he shut up and at the very least be professional. You can have creative differences in the studio but in the end it is Morrissey's album and he has the final creative say. Why bitch about it all in the press when you are meant to be promoting the album? - just say "We discussed it but it is his album and he has the final say but it was great being involved with him again blah blah". Stephen Street has alot to thank Morrissey for - he built his reputation on Morrissey's talent but you have to scan these pages to find a single gracious word.

Finally we can all criticise Morrissey for the way he handled himself personally, for his "contariness" and his tendancy to flounce, but what shouldn't be forgotton is that Morrissey was and perhaps still is, very fragile in terms of his mental health. He has had periods of very serious severe depression which will have made it very difficult to form and maintain "normal" relationships and to even function well on a day to day basis. He has been very candid about this. He is not a well man. The unhappiness, the aloneness, the isolation, it will grip you and shape you and direct your perception of the world and those around you (and inspire you). This is what Morrissey is (or was) like, he spied the world from under a little black cloud - his own personal black cloud and this is why we love him. What seems to have been forgotton is that you must accept the bad with the good - they are the same thing (because sometimes the black cloud illuminates). So don't be surpirsed if people found him difficult to get along with, mistrusting, awkward, singleminded or contary, I personally wouldn't have it any other way. Probably if you can remember those were actually some of the qualities that drew you to Morrissey in the first place (under another name) - because just like him you too were probably shy and sad once and those few who knew you would probably discribe you in similar terms - but then you grew up and you forgot how it feels and you got a job and a brand new trendy clutch bag and you made friends and compromised and started to look down your nose at the world and now you say things like "I am a Smiths fan but not a Morrissey fan" (like that makes sense) or you say "I love the songs but i really don't like the man" (like that makes sense) or you say "he has lost his way and he isn't the same" but the truth is that somewhere along the line you got happy, so you closed your eyes and your ears completely and you forgot how it feels to feel terrified and alone then you got comfy and stopped creating, much to the dismay of those around you and suddenly you woke up to find you'd lost all your compassion and now you can't tell the difference between shyness and aloofness and silence and snobbery anymore and you think people should just get a job and give themselves a shake - without realising it you have changed so much that even the word "sad" has a totally different meaning for you and you spend your days and nights bitching about the one that for some reason you can't shake out of your mind

I like.

[Anonymous]

I have a theory on why Morrissey replaced Ordinary Boys. The band called The Ordinary Boys, after the song, annoyed Morrissey, and he now has a bad association with the track. They are fronted by z lister, Preston, who never hit it off with Morrissey when he met him. Morrissey can be quite child-like because he let's his emotions rule his head.

[Gentler Words]

Great interview!

Too bad Morrissey probably won't work with Street again. I think Morrissey's voice and lyrics are still quite strong and Street would be a breath of fresh air, musically, for him. I also love Street's comments about the "loudness wars". This is my main problem with Morrissey's last couple albums. The songs are strong, but the production is too "in your face".

[goinghome]

I like.

Me too.

[Anonymous]

I could listen to Viva Hate on an old worn out cassette and still fall in love with it. Remastering is a crock.

[Giselle]

This V/H reissue is not being released in the US. If you're going to do a comparison it'll have to be against one that was considered a success in the UK. How did those Cure reissued albums do in the UK? Bob Smith did a pretty good job with those. Each one had a 2nd disc full of stuff. I believe the consensus at the time from that fanbase was that it was worth it to re-purchase those albums cause of all the extra goodies included. Anyone know how well those did at the register?

I did a little Googling- of the Cure's remastered albums, it seems from what I found, that only the "Disintegration" deluxe edition remaster (3 CDs worth of stuff!!), that came out in May 2010, made it into the Official British Charts.http://www.officialcharts.com/ It debuted at #68. I couldn't find exact sales figures. And, I also did check how U2's Achtung Baby 20th Anniversary reissue did in the UK charts, and it debuted at #35, back in November of the past year, similar to how it did in the USA, chart-wise.

[CrystalGeezer]

You mean the relationship foundered over Morrissey being a tunnel-visioned, uncompromising twat, as it had with the Smiths. Blaming an absent manager is too easy. Morrissey could have easily co-ordinated the royalties issue himself if he'd had the inclination to do it; he just didn't want to give Street more money than he felt was necessary. He's a tight bastard reluctant to give anybody else money or artistic control, and it's really as simple as that.

I know there is a hundred possibilities to tear a thousand holes in my stupid theories, but I really think the Morrissey that is portrayed by his awkward interactions involving his artistic output which he holds VERY dear because of his quiet agenda to communicate to something specific and ANY interaction involving money is VERY different from the real Morrissey who is not the twat you easily assume he is. There's stuff going on upstairs that is lightyears complicated to wrap one's mind around. He's not a dick, he's just not good at juggling two worlds I think. I'm holding out hope he's not a dick anyway.

I appreciate Street's honest opinion. Kind of rare, most people are ass-lickers in the entertainment industry it seems.

[peptastic]

Perhaps Moz thought

The folks over at one of the u2 message boards had a similar discussion back in November, when U2 re-released Achtung Baby for the 20th Anniversary. U2, being as ambitious as they are, offered 3 different versions of this repackage- the most expensive one costing as much as $400 USD! Anyway, the "basic" version of the rereleased Achtung Baby (2 CDs, approx. $25 USD) apparently entered the US Billboard charts at #35, with 13,000 units sold the first week.
http://u2.interference.com/f225/ab-2...es-212708.html

People are suckers. $400 dollars for a remastered version?
I read an article about remastered cds that said Bob Dylan had to reissue albums a couple of times due to mistakes or cutting songs to fit them onto cd.
Also that Japan gets better quality cds than America.

But that's only if you buy the idea that Morrissey is actually that conniving. I don't think he is. His decisions could just as easily be explained by an awkward inability to sustain relationships.

He might just be self destructive and finds the easiest way to chase people away before they leave him?
Who knows.
It would explain his lack of a record deal by burning so many bridges.

[joe frady]

Short version ~

But that's only if you buy the idea that Morrissey is actually that conniving. I don't think he is. His decisions could just as easily be explained by an awkward inability to sustain relationships.

Long version ~

Finally we can all criticise Morrissey for the way he handled himself personally, for his "contariness" and his tendancy to flounce, but what shouldn't be forgotton is that Morrissey was and perhaps still is, very fragile in terms of his mental health. He has had periods of very serious severe depression which will have made it very difficult to form and maintain "normal" relationships and to even function well on a day to day basis. He has been very candid about this. He is not a well man. The unhappiness, the aloneness, the isolation, it will grip you and shape you and direct your perception of the world and those around you (and inspire you). This is what Morrissey is (or was) like, he spied the world from under a little black cloud - his own personal black cloud and this is why we love him. What seems to have been forgotton is that you must accept the bad with the good - they are the same thing (because sometimes the black cloud illuminates). So don't be surpirsed if people found him difficult to get along with, mistrusting, awkward, singleminded or contary, I personally wouldn't have it any other way. Probably if you can remember those were actually some of the qualities that drew you to Morrissey in the first place (under another name) - because just like him you too were probably shy and sad once and those few who knew you would probably discribe you in similar terms - but then you grew up and you forgot how it feels and you got a job and a brand new trendy clutch bag and you made friends and compromised and started to look down your nose at the world and now you say things like "I am a Smiths fan but not a Morrissey fan" (like that makes sense) or you say "I love the songs but i really don't like the man" (like that makes sense) or you say "he has lost his way and he isn't the same" but the truth is that somewhere along the line you got happy, so you closed your eyes and your ears completely and you forgot how it feels to feel terrified and alone then you got comfy and stopped creating, much to the dismay of those around you and suddenly you woke up to find you'd lost all your compassion and now you can't tell the difference between shyness and aloofness and silence and snobbery anymore and you think people should just get a job and give themselves a shake - without realising it you have changed so much that even the word "sad" has a totally different meaning for you and you spend your days and nights bitching about the one that for some reason you can't shake out of your mind

Either way, this is the Truth and I endorse these messages

[Amy]

I know there is a hundred possibilities to tear a thousand holes in my stupid theories, but I really think the Morrissey that is portrayed by his awkward interactions involving his artistic output which he holds VERY dear because of his quiet agenda to communicate to something specific and ANY interaction involving money is VERY different from the real Morrissey who is not the twat you easily assume he is. There's stuff going on upstairs that is lightyears complicated to wrap one's mind around. He's not a dick, he's just not good at juggling two worlds I think. I'm holding out hope he's not a dick anyway.

I appreciate Street's honest opinion. Kind of rare, most people are ass-lickers in the entertainment industry it seems.

I agree that "Business" Morrissey is probably very separate to private Morrissey - by necessity, really - but that doesn't give him the right to screw people over when they ask for decent pay. He's a grown man and he should be able to deal with that side of the industry if he wants to keep working in it, instead of metaphorically putting his hands over his ears and saying "la la la" when he's faced with the dirtier sides of the job. Or, he could just be fair, which isn't that difficult.

As for whats 'going on upstairs', I don't want to get involved in that issue again because it always provokes me to try and "rationalise" you and I'm starting to realise that's simply impossible.There's no way on earth you (or anyone else) could know what's really going on in his mind from one day to the next, because he doesn't show "the real Morrissey" to the fans and for good reason. All this stuff about 'juggling two worlds' is you projecting your own struggles/psychological neuroses onto him and trying to make him an extension of yourself and your own experience. As I've said before, the result of this is that Morrissey continues living his life regardless (going to the pub, meeting friends/lovers, travelling etc) and you deliberately stall your own life to pursue a delusion.

And there I go again, wasting precious minutes of my life wrestling with the impossible

[Anonymous]

Morrissey could have easily co-ordinated the royalties issue himself if he'd had the inclination to do it; he just didn't want to give Street more money than he felt was necessary. He's a tight bastard reluctant to give anybody else money or artistic control, and it's really as simple as that.

Possibly the most ridiculous post ever written on here (and that's saying something). When would an artist ever conduct negotiations like that? And why would an artist EVER give artistic control to anyone else? Substitute "Bowie" for "Morrissey" and perhaps you'll realise just what a twat you sound. But hey, so long as it fits this site's Moz-bashing agenda, reason, logic and common sense have no place.

[Anonymous]

Stephen Street: "It's not my album - it's his".

And yet still people come here to moan.

[Anaesthesine]

Fascinating how an interview with Stephen Street devolves into a psychiatric session wherein Morrissey is diagnosed as severely depressed, socially inept, self-destructive and hopelessly disengaged from his own emotions and the real world. And that's from his admirers!

I find myself in disagreement with most of the people I normally agree with. Stephen Street has given a fairly straightforward account of the creation of the album and its subsequent reissue. It sounds like the squabble over money was a matter of Morrissey being rather ungenerous. Street was asking for a royalty rate that was greater than one percent. Any reasonable artist working with a valued, respected collaborator would have complied. It was Morrissey who wanted Street to accept the one percent (according to this account) not a manager, and I have to surmise that it was Morrissey who made negotiations difficult and "tarnished" the relationship. I'm going to hazard a guess that Morrissey was insecure at this point in his career and (as always) controlling, and he didn't feel comfortable with another collaboration. Morrissey probably saw an increased fee as an acknowledgement that Street was more than a producer, and it just didn't sit right. I don't think Street is attacking Morrissey here, as a matter of fact I think he's being rather diplomatic. It sounds like it could have been a successful partnership, but that's not what Morrissey really wanted.

As for his creative choices yes, it's entirely Morrissey's album to ruin his own way. I obviously haven't heard it, but I don't really want to. As Street himself says, "contrary" is the name of the game with Morrissey. Morrissey says and does inexplicable things fairly regularly, and that's just the nature of the beast. I would say that if Morrissey has a fatal flaw it's that he lacks a certain generosity of spirit; he is (by his own description) a closed system. This is both a strength and a weakness: he's got an incredibly vivid personality that expresses itself without compromise, but he cannot be corrected when he goes off course. One of Morrissey's saving graces is that he is also critically self-aware, which lends a certain pathos to the proceedings. Such are the pitfalls of fame and genius.