Therapy Group for the Embittered and Disillusioned.

[goinghome]

...
Go Buddhist. All desire leads to suffering.

http://www.noroomtomove.com/

[Skylarker]

I like him, I guess I always will. I go back and forth on the new songs; I don't think any of them are truly inspired but they are all very respectable except for Scandanavia which I still cannot feel any love for. And of course it's the one he thinks is the best.

But there's a certain irony in this thread...anyone reading it, even the most votriolic naysayer, is only able to read this/respond because they are logged into a Morrissey fansite.

How much could anyone who is participating here possibly dislike him? Kind of hard to take the criticism seriously.

[Amy]

I like him, I guess I always will. I go back and forth on the new songs; I don't think any of them are truly inspired but they are all very respectable except for Scandanavia which I still cannot feel any love for. And of course it's the one he thinks is the best.

But there's a certain irony in this thread...anyone reading it, even the most votriolic naysayer, is only able to read this/respond because they are logged into a Morrissey fansite.

How much could anyone who is participating here possibly dislike him? Kind of hard to take the criticism seriously.

I thought he seemed to like People Are The Same Everywhere most out of the batch of new stuff. Scandinavia is the only song I even remotely like - it's the only song that sounds like something different.

[Skylarker]

I thought he seemed to like People Are The Same Everywhere most out of the batch of new stuff. Scandinavia is the only song I even remotely like - it's the only song that sounds like something different.

No, I agree, it does sound different, but different doesn't have to equate with good.

If you like it, that's cool. It's just way too slow and meandering for me. But everything is subjective, man.

I'd just like to hear him record something again; it's been way too long.

[VivaGil]

Watching him scandinavia on the last tour was meh. It really killed the mood in the crowd too. But moz likes it so....

[joe frady]

Well there you go, horses for course an' all that. I was just going to say how I thought 'Scandinavia' was one of those key songs for Morrissey. A game-changer you might say. Each time I saw it on last years tour it just grew in power and stature. Maybe you had to see it live. But I thought it was special even on that Krakow bootleg, before I'd ever heard it in person.
I now hold it in the same high esteem as works like 'I've Changed My Plea To Guilty', 'I'd Love Too', 'Christian Dior' and 'My Dearest Love', amongst a few others; works that were pretty much dismissed at the time but will come to be seen as touchstones for Morrissey fans. And songs that signalled some kind of gear change in his work.

[Amy]

No, I agree, it does sound different, but different doesn't have to equate with good.

If you like it, that's cool. It's just way too slow and meandering for me. But everything is subjective, man.

I'd just like to hear him record something again; it's been way too long.

Yeah, I was going to say that. It's not as easily listenable as "Action" or "Art-Hounds" but I'm clinging to it regardless, because at this stage, I'm grateful for anything that doesn't sound like a Green Day b-side. Morrissey's contribution makes the song, of course - his vocal is very stark and not at all melodic, but something about it keeps drawing me back. It's weird, and I like weird . I hope he locks "People are the Same..." and "Kid's A Looker" in a case and drops it to the bottom of the ocean.

[Amy]

Well there you go, horses for course an' all that. I was just going to say how I thought 'Scandinavia' was one of those key songs for Morrissey. A game-changer you might say. Each time I saw it on last years tour it just grew in power and stature. Maybe you had to see it live. But I thought it was special even on that Krakow bootleg, before I'd ever heard it in person.
I now hold it in the same high esteem as works like 'I've Changed My Plea To Guilty', 'I'd Love Too', 'Christian Dior' and 'My Dearest Love', amongst a few others; works that were pretty much dismissed at the time but will come to be seen as touchstones for Morrissey fans. And songs that signalled some kind of gear change in his work.

Bloody hell, that's high praise! "I've Changed My Plea..." is one of the very best songs he's ever put his name to, in my opinion. A bolt from the blue after Kill Uncle. I wish he'd continued in the vein of "My Dearest Love", but it seemed to be a one-off.

[joe frady]

Bloody hell, that's high praise! "I've Changed My Plea..." is one of the very best songs he's ever put his name to, in my opinion. A bolt from the blue after Kill Uncle. I wish he'd continued in the vein of "My Dearest Love", but it seemed to be a one-off.

Agreed.
But at the time it was dismissed by a large number of fans as a dishwater-weak Jacques Brel knock-off; certainly nothing like the minor classic it's since become. And if you read what Jo Slee says about it in "Peepholism" it's clear that it was a song of some importance for Morrissey at the time ~ a step change.
Of course I may be wrong, but I just get a similar vibe off "Scandinavia".

[Amy]

Agreed.
But at the time it was dismissed by a large number of fans as a dishwater-weak Jacques Brel knock-off; certainly nothing like the minor classic it's since become. And if you read what Jo Slee says about it in "Peepholism" it's clear that it was a song of some importance for Morrissey at the time ~ a step change.
Of course I may be wrong, but I just get a similar vibe off "Scandinavia".

"Dishwater-weak Jacques Brel knock-off", absolute heresy! I don't have Peepholism - would you be kind enough to briefly summarise what she said? I hope Scandinavia does represent some sort of musical gear shifting - it's badly needed. *crosses fingers and toes*

[VivaGil]

It's not a bad song but I think him he could've played it later in the show and it would've gotten a better reaction.

[joe frady]

"Dishwater-weak Jacques Brel knock-off", absolute heresy! I don't have Peepholism - would you be kind enough to briefly summarise what she said? I hope Scandinavia does represent some sort of musical gear shifting - it's badly needed. *crosses fingers and toes*

yeah, I'm starting to think I've been knockin' around with the wrong type of fans all these years!

As for the the Jo Slee angle on "..Guilty", enjoy ~

"The B-side song 'I've Changed My Plea To Guilty' marks out the new territory; on the threshold of change, a sober and reflective acknowledgement of unwitting (or unwilling) collusion in one's own unhappiness, a prelude to understanding that it need not be a life sentence, and the dawning of a new resolve"

It interests me that you referred to it as a bolt from the blue after "Kill Uncle" cos for me it came as the immediate prelude to that LP when he debuted it, unexpectedly, on Jonathan Ross' TV show in December 1990. I remember wearing down my VHS copy over the next couple of months until the release of "Kill Uncle". I loved that LP though, and still do. I know, I know...I'm in treatment for it. Hey Ho!

[Worm]

Agreed.
But at the time it was dismissed by a large number of fans as a dishwater-weak Jacques Brel knock-off; certainly nothing like the minor classic it's since become. And if you read what Jo Slee says about it in "Peepholism" it's clear that it was a song of some importance for Morrissey at the time ~ a step change.
Of course I may be wrong, but I just get a similar vibe off "Scandinavia".

Thirded! "I've Changed My Plea To Guilty" is one of his very best songs.

There's an interview from 1991, I think it was, in which he actually stated that the song was his absolute favorite track and represented a turning point. I can't find the article online ("Interview"?). It's the one with photos of him leaning against a sportscar. He played the song for the journalist, who described it as "stunning", if I recall correctly. I couldn't wait to hear it. When I did, I wasn't disappointed.

All these wonderful memories of fandom in 1991/1992!

[Amy]

yeah, I'm starting to think I've been knockin' around with the wrong type of fans all these years!

As for the the Jo Slee angle on "..Guilty", enjoy ~

"The B-side song 'I've Changed My Plea To Guilty' marks out the new territory; on the threshold of change, a sober and reflective acknowledgement of unwitting (or unwilling) collusion in one's own unhappiness, a prelude to understanding that it need not be a life sentence, and the dawning of a new resolve"

It interests me that you referred to it as a bolt from the blue after "Kill Uncle" cos for me it came as the immediate prelude to that LP when he debuted it, unexpectedly, on Jonathan Ross' TV show in December 1990. I remember wearing down my VHS copy over the next couple of months until the release of "Kill Uncle". I loved that LP though, and still do. I know, I know...I'm in treatment for it. Hey Ho!

Ah, thanks for the quote. Perhaps I was wrong to say "after" Kill Uncle (were they from the same session in late 1990?) - it's just that the first I knew of the song was as one of the "My Love Life" B-sides. I didn't see the Jonathan Ross clip until years and years later, and I found it accidentally whilst trawling through YouTube. It's astounding.

[joe frady]

Thirded! "I've Changed My Plea To Guilty" is one of his very best songs.

There's an interview from 1991, I think it was, in which he actually stated that the song was his absolute favorite track and represented a turning point. I can't find the article online ("Interview"?). It's the one with photos of him leaning against a sportscar. He played the song for the journalist, who described it as "stunning", if I recall correctly. I couldn't wait to hear it. When I did, I wasn't disappointed.

All these wonderful memories of fandom in 1991/1992!

Wow, I'd forgotten about that interview! It was 'Creem' April/May 1991 ~ a classic! I recall finding out about it from a single 'quote of the week' mention in a 'Melody Maker' of the time ~ "Just imagine, Emily Bronte on the cover of 'Kerrang'; that'd have been great". I thought, I must read that interview, which I did, eventually. 'Creem' was very hard to track down in those good olde days, in good olde Blighty. It didn't disappoint; quintessential Morrissey.

Anyway, here's the relevant sections featuring 'I've Changed My Plea To Guilty' and it's Hook End recording on a dark Friday night in December 1990 (which is where and when this interview with Ara Corbett was conducted). Another single that never was....





~ Scanned and uploaded right here by The Seeker of Good Songs in September of 2006.

And just because it's beautiful...



Thank you for the mammaries

[Worm]

Wow, I'd forgotten about that interview! It was 'Creem' April/May 1991 ~ a classic!

Indeed! I'd forgotten about that silly, narrow-columned text. But the photos were marvelous.

This is a great example of what I was talking about. If you read this article in May 1991, as I did, you were aware of a song which Morrissey called his best-ever. (I hadn't seen the Jonathan Ross TV show.) And he left it off of "Kill Uncle"-- why?-- to save and release as a B-side later in the year. There's always this feeling that he's just one song away from releasing his greatest work to date. If there were maybe a dozen of his songs that I regarded as classics, "Guilty" was going to be one more to add to the list. That's why each new release was greeted with breathless anticipation. He came off as a genius who could casually, seemingly almost carelessly, record a song to change your life forever ("This was just something we did in the studio Friday night"). The Smiths gave off the same air of casual brilliance. And you never knew if he was saving the best of the bunch for a B-side (the surprise that spring, for me, was "The Loop", which I loved immediately).

I think this partly accounts for why a lot of fans seem cranky and disappointed with his new material, at first. In real time, you're desperately hoping for the next "There Is A Light" or "Now My Heart Is Full". Most of the time, of course, you don't get it. Masterpieces are few and far between. Only after repeated listenings, over time, do the merits of the song rise above the initial disappointment and allow for proper judgment. I know I've grown to love plenty of songs only after playing them over and over again, across several years. It's not because I'm hypercritical, it's just that-- unrealistically-- I want every new song to reach the same heights as others have in the past.

[Happy Maudlin]

I think this partly accounts for why a lot of fans seem cranky and disappointed with his new material, at first. In real time, you're desperately hoping for the next "There Is A Light" or "Now My Heart Is Full". Most of the time, of course, you don't get it. Masterpieces are few and far between. Only after repeated listenings, over time, do the merits of the song rise above the initial disappointment and allow for proper judgment. I know I've grown to love plenty of songs only after playing them over and over again, across several years. It's not because I'm hypercritical, it's just that-- unrealistically-- I want every new song to reach the same heights as others have in the past.

Same thing happened with Ringleader of the Tormentors. I focused on the strongest tracks, while over-looking others. It was only with repeated listenings and some existential realizations, that I began loving the songs I previously skipped like "The Father who Must Be Killed", "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now" and the semi-autobiographical "On the Streets I Ran", which I love by the way. And lastly the crown jewel of it all, "At Last I Am Born". Beautiful song!

[Amy]

.... the semi-autobiographical "On the Streets I Ran", which I love by the way

Only semi?

[Happy Maudlin]

Only semi?

Morrissey seems to write about himself in an omnipresent fashion, as if he is removed from his own experiences. His songs maintain autobiographical air to it, but he has the unique ability to transcend that and meld his emotions with the plight others, without having to experience it himself. My favorite songs are the others about himself usually.

[CrystalGeezer]

I just heard Sing Your Life on the radio today for the first time in I don't know how long, it was like hearing it for the first time it's been so long...God DAMN that's a good song.