Johnny Marr: "I'll reform the Smiths"

Re: John Prescott: 'We'll work really hard to help The Smiths reform'

ah apologies I did a search for Prescott and nothing came back.
 
Re: John Prescott: 'We'll work really hard to help The Smiths reform'

How much do you think Johnny regrets saying this now? Not that it'll actually happen, but that now no one will shut up about it.
 
Even if they were writing new songs? It will never happen, of course... but God knows, we need someone to save us from Jesse Tobias.

Why will it never happen, Amy?
It's arguably never looked more likely (and I mean Marr and Morrissey, not with the other two).
Marr has certainly never been keener on the Smiths legacy (e.g. stuffing half his set with Smiths songs), and he sounded pretty wistful when he said he and Morrissey weren't currently communicating. Morrissey is playing tons of Smiths songs, and knows that they are the only ones (plus EDILS) where the whole audience sings along. He also appears to have recently dropped virtually all the new songs from the set.
Morrissey and Marr must feel pretty humiliated by the music industry - no-one's offering them anything that they feel befits their iconic status.
If they got together, there'd be a bidding war among record companies, and it would be Marr and Morrissey calling all the shots.
They'd be selling out arenas (possibly even the odd stadium or two).
The huge success of the John Lewis ad is further evidence of their status as national treasures.
It is surely only a matter of time (and not too much time at that) but it would have to be Marr who instigated proceedings as it was Marr who broke the band up in the first place.
 
Why will it never happen, Amy?
It's arguably never looked more likely (and I mean Marr and Morrissey, not with the other two).
Marr has certainly never been keener on the Smiths legacy (e.g. stuffing half his set with Smiths songs), and he sounded pretty wistful when he said he and Morrissey weren't currently communicating. Morrissey is playing tons of Smiths songs, and knows that they are the only ones (plus EDILS) where the whole audience sings along. He also appears to have recently dropped virtually all the new songs from the set.
Morrissey and Marr must feel pretty humiliated by the music industry - no-one's offering them anything that they feel befits their iconic status.
If they got together, there'd be a bidding war among record companies, and it would be Marr and Morrissey calling all the shots.
They'd be selling out arenas (possibly even the odd stadium or two).
The huge success of the John Lewis ad is further evidence of their status as national treasures.
It is surely only a matter of time (and not too much time at that) but it would have to be Marr who instigated proceedings as it was Marr who broke the band up in the first place.

Because Morrissey is so stubborn it's virtually disabling. His pride gets in the way of everything; pride and that point-blank refusal to compromise with anybody is what has destroyed so many of his professional and personal relationships over the years. In some ways, he is his own worst enemy. Morrissey was deeply grieved by Johnny's departure and he was bitter about it for a long, long time afterwards - that's if he still isn't. For any kind of reunion to happen, Johnny would have to beg, and I don't think he's willing to.

Also - this is purely my opinion - I don't think Morrissey trusts Johnny Marr anymore. I'm sure he has the greatest respect for him, and maybe still loves him after all this time, but I don't think he trusts Johnny's loyalty or his work ethic. His pride wouldn't give Johnny the opportunity to walk out on him a second time, especially when he's spent so many years proving he can be successful on his own.
 
Last edited:
- no-one's offering them anything that they feel befits their iconic status.
Weren't they offered stupid money to reform at Coachella? I think Marr would be into it. If I was Moz, and if he's so bitter that Joyce is still going after his $, I would come up with some side agreement. Stop the lawsuits (or putting liens on his Mom's house, whatever), play for the $25 or $50 million.....and then tell Mike he'd give him $10MM or something and be done with it. Do something on the side for Andy (if they don't let him play).
 
Weren't they offered stupid money to reform at Coachella? I think Marr would be into it. If I was Moz, and if he's so bitter that Joyce is still going after his $, I would come up with some side agreement. Stop the lawsuits (or putting liens on his Mom's house, whatever), play for the $25 or $50 million.....and then tell Mike he'd give him $10MM or something and be done with it. Do something on the side for Andy (if they don't let him play).

Sorry - when I said no-one's offering them anything, I meant as individuals.
Yes, the two of them together would be made fantastic offers. Promoters and record companies would be falling over themselves trying to get them on board. Even if a new Morrissey and Marr album wasn't very good, it would still outsell their solo stuff by a huge margin through curiosity value alone.
 
Because Morrissey is so stubborn it's virtually disabling. His pride gets in the way of everything; pride and that point-blank refusal to compromise with anybody is what has destroyed so many of his professional and personal relationships over the years. In some ways, he is his own worst enemy. Morrissey was deeply grieved by Johnny's departure and he was bitter about it for a long, long time afterwards - that's if he still isn't. For any kind of reunion to happen, Johnny would have to beg, and I don't think he's willing to.

Also - this is purely my opinion - I don't think Morrissey trusts Johnny Marr anymore. I'm sure he has the greatest respect for him, and maybe still loves him after all this time, but I don't think he trusts Johnny's loyalty or his work ethic. His pride wouldn't give Johnny the opportunity to walk out on him a second time, especially when he's spent so many years proving he can be successful on his own.

Trouble is, Amy, Morrissey has arguably stopped being successful. Every album since Quarry has sold less than half of the previous one, and he's now returned to the commercial status of a struggling indie band (in terms of record sales). Morrissey's current situation is pretty humiliating. No-one is offering him a substantial record deal, he is frequently ridiculed in the press as a racist (or a completely insensitive bigot), his last single and album (reissues/compilations) achieved his worst ever chart positions, his last 'new' single was totally ignored by the radio. It's hard to imagine his stock could get any lower. The only thing in his favour is that he gets offered prestigious slots at festivals but that's due to his iconic status rather than his recent songs.
Linking up with Marr again would completely turn the tables - the humiliation would be over, and he and Marr would hold all the trump cards. Marr's situation is not quite so bleak but it's not far off. The question is how long can they resist the enormous temptation to get back together (I give them a year, tops), and how would they present themselves e.g. keep Boz, bring in Rourke etc - obviously no prospect of Joyce being involved.
It would have to be Marr, though, who instigated the whole thing having rejected Morrissey and split the Smiths in the first place, but I don't agree that Marr would have to beg. Also, if Marr could send some demos to Morrissey which were clearly better than anything else Morrissey's received in the last 5 years, that would help speed things up a little. To save the humiliation of being rejected again, it would need to be made clear that they were (at least initially) getting back for a fixed period of time and for fixed activities e.g. 18 months to include writing and releasing a new album and completing a world tour (a bit like the Police did fairly recently) rather than an open-ended arrangement.
 
Trouble is, Amy, Morrissey has arguably stopped being successful. Every album since Quarry has sold less than half of the previous one, and he's now returned to the commercial status of a struggling indie band (in terms of record sales). Morrissey's current situation is pretty humiliating. No-one is offering him a substantial record deal, he is frequently ridiculed in the press as a racist (or a completely insensitive bigot), his last single and album (reissues/compilations) achieved his worst ever chart positions, his last 'new' single was totally ignored by the radio. It's hard to imagine his stock could get any lower. The only thing in his favour is that he gets offered prestigious slots at festivals but that's due to his iconic status rather than his recent songs.
Linking up with Marr again would completely turn the tables - the humiliation would be over, and he and Marr would hold all the trump cards. Marr's situation is not quite so bleak but it's not far off. The question is how long can they resist the enormous temptation to get back together (I give them a year, tops), and how would they present themselves e.g. keep Boz, bring in Rourke etc - obviously no prospect of Joyce being involved.
It would have to be Marr, though, who instigated the whole thing having rejected Morrissey and split the Smiths in the first place, but I don't agree that Marr would have to beg. Also, if Marr could send some demos to Morrissey which were clearly better than anything else Morrissey's received in the last 5 years, that would help speed things up a little. To save the humiliation of being rejected again, it would need to be made clear that they were (at least initially) getting back for a fixed period of time and for fixed activities e.g. 18 months to include writing and releasing a new album and completing a world tour (a bit like the Police did fairly recently) rather than an open-ended arrangement.

Oh, I'm aware that his current status is somewhere between mediocre and dire, but that doesn't destroy what he's built for himself in the years between 1987 and now. His success stalled majorly after Maladjusted - to the point where even the diehards were thinking he was done for- but he resisted the temptation to crawl back to Johnny then, and I'm certain he'll resist it now. Nobody expected "Quarry", just like they didn't expect Your Arsenal after the dud that was Kill Uncle, but it bolted out of nowhere with such ferocity that people wondered why they'd ever given up on him. I'm hoping and praying that there is life in the old dog yet, because I love Morrissey enormously despite my criticism. I just don't think a Marr reunion holds all the answers.

If anything, linking up with Marr would be the ultimate humiliation; it would be a symbol of defeat. It's saying, "Everything I've been through in the past 25 years - highs, lows, court cases, the Finsbury Park fiasco, exile to LA, comeback...is ultimately worthless, so I'll go right back where I started and get Johnny to kickstart my career". Morrissey has faced all the major bullshit in his career by himself, and when the glory has come to him, he took that on his own as well. He doesn't deserve to have other people riding on his name.

*Ugly bitterness edited out*
 
Last edited:
Oh, I'm aware that his current status is somewhere between mediocre and dire, but that doesn't destroy what he's built for himself in the years between 1987 and now. His success stalled majorly after Maladjusted - to the point where even the diehards were thinking he was done for- but he resisted the temptation to crawl back to Johnny then, and I'm certain he'll resist it now. Nobody expected "Quarry", just like they didn't expect Your Arsenal after the dud that was Kill Uncle, but it bolted out of nowhere with such ferocity that people wondered why they'd ever given up on him. I'm hoping and praying that there is life in the old dog yet, because I love Morrissey enormously despite my criticism. I just don't think a Marr reunion holds all the answers.

If anything, linking up with Marr would be the ultimate humiliation; it would be a symbol of defeat. It's saying, "Everything I've been through in the past 25 years - highs, lows, court cases, the Finsbury Park fiasco, exile to LA, comeback...is ultimately worthless, so I'll go right back where I started and get Johnny to kickstart my career". Morrissey has faced all the major bullshit in his career by himself, and when the glory has come to him, he took that on his own as well. He doesn't deserve to have other people riding on his name.

You said that Marr's situation isn't "quite as bleak" as Morrissey's, and it hit a nerve with me so allow me a little rant. Morrissey has had a solo career - some great albums, some poor, some mediocre, but they're there. Marr? In the last 25 years the man has done virtually nothing except sit in a studio getting stoned and adding a bit of ornamental flair to Matt Johnson and Bernard Sumner's abysmal lyrics. His solo album was shameful; his band-hopping just embarrassing. I could name Maladjusted B-sides that are leagues above the very best of his post-Smiths output, and yet this drugged-up, back-stabbing people-pleaser gets the kind of critical respect that Morrissey could only dream of. Why? Because he wrote wonderful songs decades ago and has been trading on it ever since? The reason Morrissey gets criticised heavily by fans (me included), is because we have come to expect better from him than what we are currently seeing. We know he is still capable of greatness. The reason that none of Johnny's "solo" projects are criticised is because nobody took them seriously for a second. Morrissey's career might be stalling, it might even be over, but it would be a sad day when he felt the need to go back to that two-faced has-been.

Wow! Just Wow!
Perhaps you might like to consider changing your avatar photo if you feel that strongly about Johnny... :confused:
 
Trouble is, Amy, Morrissey has arguably stopped being successful. Every album since Quarry has sold less than half of the previous one, and he's now returned to the commercial status of a struggling indie band (in terms of record sales). Morrissey's current situation is pretty humiliating. No-one is offering him a substantial record deal, he is frequently ridiculed in the press as a racist (or a completely insensitive bigot), his last single and album (reissues/compilations) achieved his worst ever chart positions, his last 'new' single was totally ignored by the radio. It's hard to imagine his stock could get any lower. The only thing in his favour is that he gets offered prestigious slots at festivals but that's due to his iconic status rather than his recent songs.
Linking up with Marr again would completely turn the tables - the humiliation would be over, and he and Marr would hold all the trump cards. Marr's situation is not quite so bleak but it's not far off. The question is how long can they resist the enormous temptation to get back together (I give them a year, tops), and how would they present themselves e.g. keep Boz, bring in Rourke etc - obviously no prospect of Joyce being involved.
It would have to be Marr, though, who instigated the whole thing having rejected Morrissey and split the Smiths in the first place, but I don't agree that Marr would have to beg. Also, if Marr could send some demos to Morrissey which were clearly better than anything else Morrissey's received in the last 5 years, that would help speed things up a little. To save the humiliation of being rejected again, it would need to be made clear that they were (at least initially) getting back for a fixed period of time and for fixed activities e.g. 18 months to include writing and releasing a new album and completing a world tour (a bit like the Police did fairly recently) rather than an open-ended arrangement.

Although this is all true, I personally think that Morrissey doesn't see it this way in the slightest. He'd never take the blame for his albums not selling well, and he wouldn't put the blame on his songwriters, either. And it's not entirely his fault, either. I think most artists are this way. He genuinely feels strongly about what he is doing now, and although perhaps a majority of his fans on here might dislike the quality of his recent output, he's not going to blame the decreasing record sales on the quality of his work. Which is why (coupled with the press [though often unfavorable] he gets and the big festival slots) HE doesn't think he's stopped being successful, and thus why any reunion with Marr seems most unlikely.
 
Wow! Just Wow!
Perhaps you might like to consider changing your avatar photo if you feel that strongly about Johnny... :confused:

I feel sick after typing that out. I allowed anger to get the best of me and it was out of character. I've criticised Morrissey's recent career quite harshly in the past, but I feel protective of him when people begin to portray Marr as some kind of miracle solution. Truthfully, I have great affection for Johnny Marr. I went to his Manchester shows in October and stood in awe in the front row. I just don't think his post-Smiths career deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Morrissey's. As I said - it hit a nerve, hence my reaction.
 
Last edited:
While I don't agree with some of the more bitter sounding comment, not saying they were bitter rsonal personally, it has a nugget of truth,.we judge our poor stephen much too harshly. Much more than we judge johnny.vb I just want to see the lads happy together. If it's not in the cards them do be it. I just want to witness a glimpse of the old magic. I love seeing morrissey solo. Moz and marr could possibly be sublime
 
Oh, I'm aware that his current status is somewhere between mediocre and dire, but that doesn't destroy what he's built for himself in the years between 1987 and now. His success stalled majorly after Maladjusted - to the point where even the diehards were thinking he was done for- but he resisted the temptation to crawl back to Johnny then, and I'm certain he'll resist it now. Nobody expected "Quarry", just like they didn't expect Your Arsenal after the dud that was Kill Uncle, but it bolted out of nowhere with such ferocity that people wondered why they'd ever given up on him. I'm hoping and praying that there is life in the old dog yet, because I love Morrissey enormously despite my criticism. I just don't think a Marr reunion holds all the answers.

If anything, linking up with Marr would be the ultimate humiliation; it would be a symbol of defeat. It's saying, "Everything I've been through in the past 25 years - highs, lows, court cases, the Finsbury Park fiasco, exile to LA, comeback...is ultimately worthless, so I'll go right back where I started and get Johnny to kickstart my career". Morrissey has faced all the major bullshit in his career by himself, and when the glory has come to him, he took that on his own as well. He doesn't deserve to have other people riding on his name.

You said that Marr's situation isn't "quite as bleak" as Morrissey's, and it hit a nerve with me so allow me a little rant. Morrissey has had a solo career - some great albums, some poor, some mediocre, but they're there. Marr? In the last 25 years the man has done virtually nothing except sit in a studio getting stoned and adding a bit of ornamental flair to Matt Johnson and Bernard Sumner's abysmal lyrics. His solo album was shameful; his band-hopping just embarrassing. I could name Maladjusted B-sides that are leagues above the very best of his post-Smiths output, and yet this drugged-up, back-stabbing people-pleaser gets the kind of critical respect that Morrissey could only dream of. Why? Because he wrote wonderful songs decades ago and has been trading on it ever since? The reason Morrissey gets criticised heavily by fans (me included), is because we have come to expect better from him than what we are currently seeing. We know he is still capable of greatness. The reason that none of Johnny's "solo" projects are criticised is because nobody took them seriously for a second. Morrissey's career might be stalling, it might even be over, but it would be a sad day when he felt the need to go back to that two-faced has-been.

Gosh Amy! I'm a little shocked by the anti-Marr vitriol! Most of his post Smiths stuff just hasn't really been my cuppa tea but I loved the Maccoll and Bragg songs he co-wrote, and some of the Electronic singles were genius. And although I can't stand the lyrics or the singing to the Cribs songs, I thought the songs I heard that Marr had co-written were set to great pieces of music.
The essence of what I've been saying is that, of course, Morrissey would never crawl back to Marr (and face humiliation/rejection once again) for all the reasons you outlined. It can only work if Marr is the instigator i.e. effectively he is the one who does the crawling.
Morrissey and Marr will have noticed that the success of the Stone Roses reunion is absolutely phenomenal and we haven't even heard a note of new music. Squire and Brown were struggling with their solo careers even more than Morrissey and Marr are, and although I'm a fan of the Stone Roses, they only really have 10 brilliant songs whereas the Smiths have 35 to 45. Stone Roses do have a little more mainstream appeal than the Smiths (there's no love it or hate it singing voice to deal with) but Morrissey and Marr together would undoubtedly be a phenomenal success, commercially (over the first album/tour at least). As I said before, I seriously do not think they will be able to resist the temptation to reform for much longer. And I hope they don't too!
 
Stone Roses do have a little more mainstream appeal than the Smiths (there's no love it or hate it singing voice to deal with)

Are we talking at cross purposes about two different bands both called the Stone Roses?

Spool this forward to about 3 mins 20. You'll be so glad you did. Then keep watching, because it actually gets worse.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are we talking at cross purposes about two different bands both called the Stone Roses?
Spool this forward to about 3 mins 20. You'll be so glad you did. Then keep watching, because it actually gets worse.


Don't need to remind me of the Stone Roses at Reading 96 - I was there! Except it wasn't really the Stone Roses. The drummer and the main songwriter/lead guitarist had left. The point is that the SR reunion has proved unbelievably successful, commercially with 250,000 tickets sold for 3 Manchester dates alone. Marr and Morrissey will be intrigued by this success, as Brown and Squire's solo careers had all but fizzled out...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gosh Amy! I'm a little shocked by the anti-Marr vitriol! Most of his post Smiths stuff just hasn't really been my cuppa tea but I loved the Maccoll and Bragg songs he co-wrote, and some of the Electronic singles were genius. And although I can't stand the lyrics or the singing to the Cribs songs, I thought the songs I heard that Marr had co-written were set to great pieces of music.
The essence of what I've been saying is that, of course, Morrissey would never crawl back to Marr (and face humiliation/rejection once again) for all the reasons you outlined. It can only work if Marr is the instigator i.e. effectively he is the one who does the crawling.
Morrissey and Marr will have noticed that the success of the Stone Roses reunion is absolutely phenomenal and we haven't even heard a note of new music. Squire and Brown were struggling with their solo careers even more than Morrissey and Marr are, and although I'm a fan of the Stone Roses, they only really have 10 brilliant songs whereas the Smiths have 35 to 45. Stone Roses do have a little more mainstream appeal than the Smiths (there's no love it or hate it singing voice to deal with) but Morrissey and Marr together would undoubtedly be a phenomenal success, commercially (over the first album/tour at least). As I said before, I seriously do not think they will be able to resist the temptation to reform for much longer. And I hope they don't too!

I've removed the anti-Marr tirade; it was bitter and it made me feel uneasy. I just can't help feeling that any kind of reunion would be a disappointment - doomed from the very beginning by the weight of their past. The Smiths were beautiful, almost perfect. It would be almost impossible for Morrissey & Marr to re-capture that greatness in 2012, and I'm not sure I'd want them to tarnish their legacy by trying.
 
Back
Top Bottom