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Thread: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

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    Senior Member Amy's Avatar
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    Default Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

    We've been without Alain in the band for 8 years now, with Morrissey still using his musical compositions right up until Refusal - so he must still hold him in high regard as a songwriter. What happened between them? Did Alain leave or was he kicked out? Why has Moz never mentioned the departure when Alain was in the band for 13 years? I've never understood this. I read the main page article about Alain working with Madonna, and I'm left wondering where it all went wrong .

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    Default Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

    Not sure, if anything went wrong.

    I remember that Morrissey stated during the Years of Refusal promotion that he has nothing to do with it. I think it was at lest mentioned in an interview with German SPEX-magazine. Alain obviously left early during the YATQ-tour. As far as I remember people mentioned health issues as well as that he wanted to spend more time with his family. On the other hand you're right Moz has never really mentioned him after Alain leabing the lads.

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    Bluff, Ardour & Assoc. Jamie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

    I'm sensing the provision by moderators of links to similar threads in 3, 2, 1...

    In a nutshell, no one has offered the complete story. I expect at this point, no one will. Morrissey probably feels he doesn't owe an answer to anyone - or considers it a private matter, as Alain seems to. Alain is trying different things as a working songwriter and whether he is remaining shtum to not burn a bridge or has generally just got on with life, fair cop to him either way. Morrissey has obviously made his choice, touring- and studio-wise, whatever anyone feels of the results.

    I always cringe on Alain's behalf when someone directly asks him a Morrissey-related question on Facebook.

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    Default Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    We've been without Alain in the band for 8 years now, with Morrissey still using his musical compositions right up until Refusal - so he must still hold him in high regard as a songwriter. What happened between them? Did Alain leave or was he kicked out? Why has Moz never mentioned the departure when Alain was in the band for 13 years? I've never understood this. I read the main page article about Alain working with Madonna, and I'm left wondering where it all went wrong .
    It is interesting and it's not fair to keep fans in the dark about it, as Alain has been a constant and much beloved fixture. But for what it is worth: The evidence suggests that Alain has in fact not left the band, in a writing sense. As of 2009, Alain has contributed music. Obviously, we know that he doesn't tour with Moz anymore and hasn't since 2004. What I do know, Alain doesn't talk about it. Morrissey hasn't said anything about it. My best guess is that Alain didn't want to tour anymore, he got married, he is working in Hollywood, he is still a Morrissey collaborator and perhaps, the rest is none of our business? I typically stay very quiet about any insider information I have, but I'm tired of it, so I'll dangle this out there, for anyone who cares. I spoke with Alain in the Spring of 2007 and while he was complimentary of Moz (as he always is), he also came across to me as "disgruntled". About what, of all things? About how Spencer was dealt with being ousted from the band. Alain's exact quote, "I haven't spoken to Spence in years, I just got reacquainted with him on Facebook(he might've said Myspace). I've missed him, I mean, I'm the one who got him in the band. He was my friend." It's been five years, so forgive me if I've misquoted, but it was something to that degree. True story.

    For those of you that ask why would I hold back insider information? Because I don't feel the fucking lot of you deserve to hear it. So in contrast, we will leave (some of you) in the dark. Especially...the haters, including the Administrator.

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    Last edited by íViva Morrissey!; February 7, 2012 at 07:43 PM.

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    Member Kewpie's Avatar
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    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by íViva Morrissey! View Post
    It is interesting and it's not fair to keep fans in the dark about it, as Alain has been a constant and much beloved fixture. But for what it is worth: The evidence suggests that Alain has in fact not left the band, in a writing sense. As of 2009, Alain has contributed music. Obviously, we know that he doesn't tour with Moz anymore and hasn't since 2004. What I do know, Alain doesn't talk about it. Morrissey hasn't said anything about it. My best guess is that Alain didn't want to tour anymore, he got married, he is working in Hollywood, he is still a Morrissey collaborator and perhaps, the rest is none of our business? I typically stay very quiet about any insider information I have, but I'm tired of it, so I'll dangle this out there, for anyone who cares. I spoke with Alain in the Spring of 2007 and while he was complimentary of Moz (as he always is), he also came across to me as "disgruntled". About what, of all things? About how Spencer was dealt with being ousted from the band. Alain's exact quote, "I haven't spoken to Spence in years, I just got reacquainted with him on Facebook(he might've said Myspace). I've missed him, I mean, I'm the one who got him in the band. He was my friend." It's been five years, so forgive me if I've misquoted, but it was something to that degree. True story.

    For those of you that ask why would I hold back insider information? Because I don't feel the fucking lot of you deserve to hear it. So in contrast, we will leave (some of you) in the dark. Especially...the haters, including the Administrator.
    Your opinion of site administrator is totally wrong.

    If he hates Morrissey, how come he is still running this site?


    You are one of the lazy moaning spoilt sods who never stop poking at others for without valid reasons.

    If you don't like the policy of this site, start your own fan site and tell others what you know.


    Possibly Alain wants to pursue some other channels in order to expand his musical career.

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    Last edited by Kewpie; February 7, 2012 at 08:47 PM.

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    Default Re:

    If I may add something to this discussion then I would suggest that Moz suffers a bit from not handling men that are more good looking than himself. I think he feels threatened by good looking men and cannot handle his obvious sexual desire for them as in the case of Marr and Whyte. All the battles he had with Marr were full of sexual frustration and I suspect that is the case with Whyte as well.

    A more deeply lying reason can be that Moz has a hard time accepting himself and his looks and therefor closes people off and distances himself from them. I don't know if the american secret intelligence has any files on the man but I would suspect so after his songs about Maggie and it would be interesting to read their take on the man and how he works psychologically. His homosexuality shouldn't be any news to them as they are not restricted by being fans or having personal preferences or hangups.

    Morrissey always end up having conflicts with men that were good looking or maybe Whyte offended Moz by saying bad things about swedes and how they dress when on holiday abroad cause for Moz Sweden is a sacred place cause it gave him a number one spot in the album charts.

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    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban the swede View Post
    If I may add something to this discussion then I would suggest that Moz suffers a bit from not handling men that are more good looking than himself. I think he feels threatened by good looking men and cannot handle his obvious sexual desire for them as in the case of Marr and Whyte. All the battles he had with Marr were full of sexual frustration and I suspect that is the case with Whyte as well.

    A more deeply lying reason can be that Moz has a hard time accepting himself and his looks and therefor closes people off and distances himself from them. I don't know if the american secret intelligence has any files on the man but I would suspect so after his songs about Maggie and it would be interesting to read their take on the man and how he works psychologically. His homosexuality shouldn't be any news to them as they are not restricted by being fans or having personal preferences or hangups.

    Morrissey always end up having conflicts with men that were good looking or maybe Whyte offended Moz by saying bad things about swedes and how they dress when on holiday abroad cause for Moz Sweden is a sacred place cause it gave him a number one spot in the album charts.
    LOL!!

    What a load of rubbish, you have a wild imagination.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Amy's Avatar
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    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban the swede View Post
    If I may add something to this discussion then I would suggest that Moz suffers a bit from not handling men that are more good looking than himself. I think he feels threatened by good looking men and cannot handle his obvious sexual desire for them as in the case of Marr and Whyte. All the battles he had with Marr were full of sexual frustration and I suspect that is the case with Whyte as well.

    A more deeply lying reason can be that Moz has a hard time accepting himself and his looks and therefor closes people off and distances himself from them. I don't know if the american secret intelligence has any files on the man but I would suspect so after his songs about Maggie and it would be interesting to read their take on the man and how he works psychologically. His homosexuality shouldn't be any news to them as they are not restricted by being fans or having personal preferences or hangups.

    Morrissey always end up having conflicts with men that were good looking or maybe Whyte offended Moz by saying bad things about swedes and how they dress when on holiday abroad cause for Moz Sweden is a sacred place cause it gave him a number one spot in the album charts.
    Wait a minute..you're saying Morrissey kicked Whyte out because he was just too good-looking? !!! Wow, he waited an awful long time to do that didn't he? 13 years! I agree about Marr, but I never saw even the vaguest hint of physical attraction between Moz and Alain. As for the stuff about Sweden....you're stark raving mad!

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kewpie View Post
    Your opinion of site administrator is totally wrong.

    If he hates Morrissey, how come he is still running this site?
    Out of spite, revenge, to have a forum for him to "strike back" against Morrissey as he pleases, to still be, in a small way, an "insider" of sorts. Who knows? You'd have to ask HIM, the administrator, that question. I think you're wrong. So much for what you and I think. He claims he's "still interested" and as long as he his, he'll continue to maintain the website, but to what degree? He's never written a mission statement, we don't really know what his motives ARE or have ever been. We know, possibly what his motives were, which are: He USED to love Morrissey, He USED to want to be an insider and he shows desires to be a "quasi-journalist" and we also know that David has had a penchant in the past to giving a "voice" to former Morrissey associates and detractors. Being banned for life from Morrissey shows should tell you a lot, but you still don't seem to see it. The truth is, I appreciate a great deal what David has done over the years (as a fan of MORRISSEY) and I also think he has failed Morrissey in many ways as well. Not all of it, is his fault, I agree. But, if we are being honest, in some sense, he has always been in over his head. And that is O.K. See, Kewpie, what you don't know is, I have supported David for many years, probably longer than you have, so you don't really know who you are talking to and your emotional outburst is fairly infantile. I took issue in the later years of Morrissey's career to a certain specific things that David did and those issues, along with Morrissey's lack of support for this website, are why my opinion of the site administrator are what they are. There's no need for you, having a lack of knowledge on my personal perspective on what David does, to chime in and it doesn't make my presence here less valuable. In fact, it's a credit to David that I continue here, in that, even in spite of his shortcomings, I forgive him and on the whole, he does a decent work or at least passable. Or maybe I just like to come here to cause trouble, like you think. I'll let the people decide. Whatever. But he has to realise there are consequences, just like the consequences that you (a moderator of this forum) and he (the administrator) give us when we break your silly forum "rules." You can't have it both ways.

    You are one of the lazy moaning spoilt sods who never stop poking at others for without valid reasons.
    You should reserve your pointless insults for the Pigsty because you don't even know me, what I've done or WHY I've done what I've done. Your sentence doesn't make much sense. Part of your problem is you don't follow your own rules, in fact, you and your clan break them at every turn as you please. Also, it could be said that what you do, merging threads in your purely personal way without rhyme or reason, hurts this website AND Morrissey more than anyone else. I don't "poke" anyone without a valid reason. In fact, I don't do much at all without a VERY GOOD reason. The fact that you're unaware of the reasons is not MY fault, it's yours. I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this as, again, your sentence doesn't make sense. Lazy? Where do you get this? Moaning? Perhaps, but there are many people here who "moan" and are far more annoying and in fact, HATEFUL towards Morrissey. You'd think you would be more interested in those people but you're not, which proves my case again and again and again. Spoilt? Hardly. In fact, I'm quite humble. Kewpie, if you're going to stand up for someone, like the administrator, don't you think you would serve him better making actual points instead of just slinging insults, which according to you, are supposed to belong in the Pigsty? I'm all for a good mudslinging, in fact, most of the time, I'm up for it! But there has to be a valid reason and there doesn't seem to be one here.

    If you don't like the policy of this site, start your own fan site and tell others what you know.
    Why would I do that, when I can have other's do it for me? Yes, I don't like the policy of this website. Fact. I have that right. I can dislike or like anything I want. It doesn't mean I have to run off and "start my own fan site" as you say. I let you and others do it for me, then, from my ivory tower, I judge you and tell you with various nods, scripts and hand jestures whether or not I think what you doing is right, valid or not. Then, with my majestic scepter, I shall dismiss you. Like I'm doing now.



    Possibly Alain wants to pursue some other channels in order to expand his musical career.
    OK. Your point?

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    Last edited by íViva Morrissey!; February 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Alain Whyte and Moz. What happened? (I also don't like it when you change titles)

    Quote Originally Posted by íViva Morrissey! View Post
    Out of spite, revenge, to have a forum for him to "strike back" against Morrissey as he pleases, to still be, in a small way, an "insider" of sorts. Who knows? You'd have to ask HIM, the administrator, that question. I think you're wrong. So much for what you and I think. He claims he's "still interested" and as long as he his, he'll continue to maintain the website, but to what degree? He's never written a mission statement, we don't really know what his motives ARE or have ever been. We know, possibly what his motives were, which are: He USED to love Morrissey, He USED to want to be an insider and he shows desires to be a "quasi-journalist" and we also know that David has had a penchant in the past to giving a "voice" to former Morrissey associates and detractors. Being banned for life from Morrissey shows should tell you a lot, but you still don't seem to see it. The truth is, I appreciate a great deal what David has done over the years (as a fan of MORRISSEY) and I also think he has failed Morrissey in many ways as well. Not all of it, is his fault, I agree. But, if we are being honest, in some sense, he has always been in over his head. And that is O.K. See, Kewpie, what you don't know is, I have supported David for many years, probably longer than you have, so you don't really know who you are talking to and your emotional outburst is fairly infantile. I took issue in the later years of Morrissey's career to a certain specific things that David did and those issues, along with Morrissey's lack of support for this website, are why my opinion of the site administrator are what they are. There's no need for you, having a lack of knowledge on my personal perspective on what David does, to chime in and it doesn't make my presence here less valuable. In fact, it's a credit to David that I continue here, in that, even in spite of his shortcomings, I forgive him and on the whole, he does a decent work or at least passable. Or maybe I just like to come here to cause trouble, like you think. I'll let the people decide. Whatever. But he has to realise there are consequences, just like the consequences that you (a moderator of this forum) and he (the administrator) give us when we break your silly forum "rules." You can't have it both ways.



    You should reserve your pointless insults for the Pigsty because you don't even know me, what I've done or WHY I've done what I've done. Your sentence doesn't make much sense. Part of your problem is you don't follow your own rules, in fact, you and your clan break them at every turn as you please. Also, it could be said that what you do, merging threads in your purely personal way without rhyme or reason, hurts this website AND Morrissey more than anyone else. I don't "poke" anyone without a valid reason. In fact, I don't do much at all without a VERY GOOD reason. The fact that you're unaware of the reasons is not MY fault, it's yours. I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this as, again, your sentence doesn't make sense. Lazy? Where do you get this? Moaning? Perhaps, but there are many people here who "moan" and are far more annoying and in fact, HATEFUL towards Morrissey. You'd think you would be more interested in those people but you're not, which proves my case again and again and again. Spoilt? Hardly. In fact, I'm quite humble. Kewpie, if you're going to stand up for someone, like the administrator, don't you think you would serve him better making actual points instead of just slinging insults, which according to you, are supposed to belong in the Pigsty? I'm all for a good mudslinging, in fact, most of the time, I'm up for it! But there has to be a valid reason and there doesn't seem to be one here.



    Why would I do that, when I can have other's do it for me? Yes, I don't like the policy of this website. Fact. I have that right. I can dislike or like anything I want. It doesn't mean I have to run off and "start my own fan site" as you say. I let you and others do it for me, then, from my ivory tower, I judge you and tell you with various nods, scripts and hand jestures whether or not I think what you doing is right, valid or not. Then, with my majestic scepter, I shall dismiss you. Like I'm doing now.





    OK. Your point?
    good post lol - well said

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  11. #11

    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    Wait a minute..you're saying Morrissey kicked Whyte out because he was just too good-looking? !!! Wow, he waited an awful long time to do that didn't he? 13 years! I agree about Marr, but I never saw even the vaguest hint of physical attraction between Moz and Alain. As for the stuff about Sweden....you're stark raving mad!
    The bit about Sweden is actually true but the other things are up for debate and I never presented it as facts.

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kewpie View Post
    LOL!!

    What a load of rubbish, you have a wild imagination.
    And you have not as you never add to a discussion but instead uses this emperors technique to discard other peoples views but we wait for your own analysis if you have any.

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    Back on the topic of Alain, when he wasn't allowed to play on his own tracks during the Years sessions and started working with Will.I.Am and more mainstream American acts (and enjoying it very much) I began to feel the chances of him returning to the fold rapidly decreasing. Now he's contributing to Madonna's latest album?

    He's not coming back...

    By the way, it was a bit of a blip in the overall scheme of themes but didn't Morrissey dedicate a live rendition of "No One Compares..." to Alain as sort of a goodbye?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban the swede View Post
    If I may add something to this discussion then I would suggest that Moz suffers a bit from not handling men that are more good looking than himself.
    By your rationale someone ought to tell Solomon Walker his days are numbered.


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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

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    Bluff, Ardour & Assoc. Jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Leer View Post
    He's not coming back...

    By the way, it was a bit of a blip in the overall scheme of themes but didn't Morrissey dedicate a live rendition of "No One Compares..." to Alain as sort of a goodbye?
    He dedicated "No One Can Hold a Candle To You" on Alain's birthday when playing the Roskilde Festival on 3 July 2004. The comments in the Tour Archive don't indicate a context for "goodbye" but who knows? This was before Jesse arrived so I suspect Morrissey anticipated "business as usual" would return.

    And, really, beyond concert appearances, it's looking more and more like there's not much to come back for.

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    Thanks for the correction. "No One Compares"? Must've had Prince half on the brain.

    Please remind me, what was the date of Alain's final live show?

    Sad to say, but it looks as if there won't be any songwriting contributions from Alain but I'm still holding out for an album from various contributors who "fight" for a spot on what could be Moz' swansong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    He dedicated "No One Can Hold a Candle To You" on Alain's birthday when playing the Roskilde Festival on 3 July 2004. The comments in the Tour Archive don't indicate a context for "goodbye" but who knows? This was before Jesse arrived so I suspect Morrissey anticipated "business as usual" would return.

    And, really, beyond concert appearances, it's looking more and more like there's not much to come back for.

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    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban the swede View Post
    If I may add something to this discussion then I would suggest that Moz suffers a bit from not handling men that are more good looking than himself. I think he feels threatened by good looking men and cannot handle his obvious sexual desire for them as in the case of Marr and Whyte. All the battles he had with Marr were full of sexual frustration and I suspect that is the case with Whyte as well.

    A more deeply lying reason can be that Moz has a hard time accepting himself and his looks and therefor closes people off and distances himself from them. I don't know if the american secret intelligence has any files on the man but I would suspect so after his songs about Maggie and it would be interesting to read their take on the man and how he works psychologically. His homosexuality shouldn't be any news to them as they are not restricted by being fans or having personal preferences or hangups.

    Morrissey always end up having conflicts with men that were good looking or maybe Whyte offended Moz by saying bad things about swedes and how they dress when on holiday abroad cause for Moz Sweden is a sacred place cause it gave him a number one spot in the album charts.
    This post should forever be on the front page of the website, fucking gold! lol

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    Well, Alain's disappearance from live performance obviously wasn't planned as one minute he was there and the next Little Barrie was drafted in. I can't imagine Alain upset Morrissey - so no, I don't believe he was 'kicked out' - he was absent and he just never came back, and we don't know exactly why.

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    Does anyone know how many line up changes there have been since 'Your Arsenal'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokey View Post
    This post should forever be on the front page of the website, fucking gold! lol
    Now this is fucking gold.



    Arrrrrrrrrrrrrht hounds. You have to say it like a pirate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by !Viva Hate! View Post
    Maybe Geezer can give us advice seeing as she is an upstanding citizen in her community, trusted confidant to her friends, is extremely intelligent and properly educated, & just generally has her shit together in ways we could never hope to?

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