Morrissey's Norway-statement: Animal-rights activism or just self-sabotage?

[SteveG]

Let me start by stating that I have the deepest respect for Morrissey’s contribution to animal welfare. He has converted countless of fans, among which my humble self, to eat less or no meat and has contributed enormously to growth of awareness in many societies.

Now, there have been a lot of discussions on the Norway massacre statement. For me the whole thing boils down to the following question:

Does Morrissey believe his Norway-statement will lead to people eating less meat?

I believe that at some level every human knows that eating animals is wrong. No child will ever look a pig or a rabbit and grab a knife with a watery mouth and a murderous lust in his eyes. A child is much more likely to cuddle with the beast. Killing for food (with enough alternatives on hand) is not a human instinct. In order for a child to become a carnivore, it must be fooled into eating meat, lied to about its intolerable origins and conditioned on the taste. “It’s normal, that is what everybody does, right?”

Based on the above assumption I would argue that everybody who is eating meat is at some level aware of it being wrong. Therefore meat-eaters are constantly applying some kind of technique of justification and/or self-deception.

Now, I wonder if such extreme and alienating statements, as those of Morrissey will not actually allow people to more easily dismiss their doubts on eating meat, arguing that vegetarianism is for crazy extremist who think that them having a “normal” dinner is worse that a human mass murder.

Does Morrissey believe he is changing things for the better with a statement like that or is he committing “unlimited self-sabotage”? See related thread

What do you think?

 

[peptastic]

He would have been better airing images of animal killings at KFC headquarters as a backdrop if that had been his aim.
All he did was piss people off and others to distance themselves.
Kind of how Breveirk probably did with his fellow right wingers...

Personally as a Floridian I wondered to myself why Caylee Anthony's death mattered more than Haleigh Cummings [also from Florida] or millions of other dead kids but I would not trivialize her death all the same.
I feel for all the dead animals but I also feel for humans dying. We're all animals.
I guess I'm a hypocrite though as I don't shed a tear for dead cockroaches.

 

[SteveG]

As the link at the end of your post proves that you are well aware of this subject's existing thread (which has now reached Rosie O'Donnell-like proportions), why make a new thread?

I mean, I know why you did it, but let's hear it from you.

As your post proves, you have read neither this post nor the linked post, so why would you reply to it?

I mean, I know why you did it, but let's hear it from you

 

[SteveG]

I read your post, and your other post, which you linked to in this one. I admit I assumed that link was to the Norway thread, but it doesn't matter. If anything it proves my point further.

Both this thread and the one you made previously are you feeling you have a new angle on a pre-exiting topic which MUST be read immediately and placed in their own, separate threads so that everyone sees them immediately, rather than putting them in any of the applicable threads already dedicated to a discussion of the topic, where there would be a chance they would be looked over as just another post.

There. You heard it from me, just like you asked.

Yes, your assessment of my motives is correct and I admit, considering the number of views and replies, that this post should have better been a reply to the original Norway discussion. I think the other post was OK, at least I found some of the replies rather interesting.

 

[Buzzetta]

He would have been better airing images of animal killings at KFC headquarters as a backdrop if that had been his aim.
All he did was piss people off and others to distance themselves.
Kind of how Breveirk probably did with his fellow right wingers...

Personally as a Floridian I wondered to myself why Caylee Anthony's death mattered more than Haleigh Cummings [also from Florida] or millions of other dead kids but I would not trivialize her death all the same.
I feel for all the dead animals but I also feel for humans dying. We're all animals.
I guess I'm a hypocrite though as I don't shed a tear for dead cockroaches.

The Casey Anthony trial captivated me because from the beginning, I felt it was a bungled prosecution. They aimed too high and at the end of the day her lawyer, (who was by no means a recognized ace attorney) was able to take advantage of it.

 

[Buzzetta]

Let me start by stating that I have the deepest respect for Morrissey’s contribution to animal welfare. He has converted countless of fans, among which my humble self, to eat less or no meat and has contributed enormously to growth of awareness in many societies.

Now, there have been a lot of discussions on the Norway massacre statement. For me the whole thing boils down to the following question:

Does Morrissey believe his Norway-statement will lead to people eating less meat?

I believe that at some level every human knows that eating animals is wrong. No child will ever look a pig or a rabbit and grab a knife with a watery mouth and a murderous lust in his eyes. A child is much more likely to cuddle with the beast. Killing for food (with enough alternatives on hand) is not a human instinct. In order for a child to become a carnivore, it must be fooled into eating meat, lied to about its intolerable origins and conditioned on the taste. “It’s normal, that is what everybody does, right?”

Based on the above assumption I would argue that everybody who is eating meat is at some level aware of it being wrong. Therefore meat-eaters are constantly applying some kind of technique of justification and/or self-deception.

Now, I wonder if such extreme and alienating statements, as those of Morrissey will not actually allow people to more easily dismiss their doubts on eating meat, arguing that vegetarianism is for crazy extremist who think that them having a “normal” dinner is worse that a human mass murder.

Does Morrissey believe he is changing things for the better with a statement like that or is he committing “unlimited self-sabotage”? See related thread

What do you think?

I think you assume too much with your first statement. I remember even out on Long Island, my family did not have a lot of money, so we would take a ride out to SUNY Farmingdale when they had the agriculture school. We would visit the cows. We were immediately shown where hamburgers came from. We pet the live hamburger and fed the live hamburger. I can honestly say it never made a difference to us. To me? It is not, as you put it, 'wrong'. But why? I am asked al the time. You must back up your statement. Just as my moral compass guides me that walking up and throwing a child off a cliff is 'wrong', I find nothing 'wrong' with boiling a crab. Which reminds me...

I just got back from playing nine... I think I will go crabbing down by the water and make some crab cake sandwiches for dinner.

It is a moral compass. It does not upset me when you make statements like that. But it does annoy me to a degree the pretentiousness about some of you that feel that if we all must think like you on some level and if not there is something wrong.

To me, that would be if I was trying to say my views on abortion, gun control, religion, politics and any other topical issue are right and on some level everyone else knows that I am right they are just deluding themselves to think differently.

You have your opinions on my crab cake sandwiches... I have mine..

 

[Shaw]

Let me start by stating that I have the deepest respect for Morrissey’s contribution to animal welfare. He has converted countless of fans, among which my humble self, to eat less or no meat and has contributed enormously to growth of awareness in many societies.

Now, there have been a lot of discussions on the Norway massacre statement. For me the whole thing boils down to the following question:

Does Morrissey believe his Norway-statement will lead to people eating less meat?

I believe that at some level every human knows that eating animals is wrong. No child will ever look a pig or a rabbit and grab a knife with a watery mouth and a murderous lust in his eyes. A child is much more likely to cuddle with the beast. Killing for food (with enough alternatives on hand) is not a human instinct. In order for a child to become a carnivore, it must be fooled into eating meat, lied to about its intolerable origins and conditioned on the taste. “It’s normal, that is what everybody does, right?”

Based on the above assumption I would argue that everybody who is eating meat is at some level aware of it being wrong. Therefore meat-eaters are constantly applying some kind of technique of justification and/or self-deception.

Now, I wonder if such extreme and alienating statements, as those of Morrissey will not actually allow people to more easily dismiss their doubts on eating meat, arguing that vegetarianism is for crazy extremist who think that them having a “normal” dinner is worse that a human mass murder.

Does Morrissey believe he is changing things for the better with a statement like that or is he committing “unlimited self-sabotage”? See related thread

What do you think?

While I agree with your point about a child to a certain extent, there must have been some point where one of our ancestors grew up and did kill something to eat it and our early ancestors most definitely needed the meat to survive and it's stuck with us since. Humanity has gone beyond instinctive living and thus has to bring up children (for a long time in comparison to other living beings) to survive in a man-constructed world and yes, nowadays, we don't need meat. However, I think people get too hung up on "natural". I don't see why if something is natural it is therefore good/ is a good reason to do or like something? Tsunamis, diseases and volcanoes are natural too. Besides, I'm not sure what natural is. People talk about artificial things, like, I don't know, plastic shopping bags but at the end of the day, a plastic shopping bag is still made up of natural elements found in the confines of this little bit of the universe. I don't think as human beings we are really in a position to judge what is natural and what isn't in the grand scheme of things, for how do we know babies and children are acting totally naturally?

As for Morrissey, I don't think it's either or. I think it's inextricably both in the sort of world we live in. I think he clearly is trying to do something worthwhile with regards animal rights but he's acutely aware of how controversial comments like the one made in Warszawa are. He's annoyed it is controversial but also loves controversy.

 

[Bona Drag]

Personally, I don't think our man said what he said because this way he will convert more people into vegetarianism or convice them about anything really... He said what he said because he believes it and its a way of making clear that for him (and many others), there's no real difference between human and animal life... I might be wrong though... I usually am...

 

[The_Myth]

Personally, I don't think our man said what he said because this way he will convert more people into vegetarianism or convice them about anything really... He said what he said because he believes it and its a way of making clear that for him (and many others), there's no real difference between human and animal life... I might be wrong though... I usually am...

I agree with you completely, which is why I find his statements so heinous.

He made this statement for his own opportunistic reasons, thus dismissing the supposedly voiceless animals he claims to be defending. If he truly cared, he would be more concerned with PERSUASION as a means of encouraging people to agree with his position and not alienating them into completely opposing him out of spite and anger.

So, in effect, he's not only shot himself in the foot with his "statement" but also aided and abetted in the slaughter of several more billion livestock.

Well done, Morrissey?

 

[Maurice E]

What do you actually mean by Morrissey's 'Norway statement'?
Do you mean his off-the-cuff 'banter' between songs about KFC and McDonald? Watch the actual video footage and you'll hear a different message to the one the media have reported. He never actually said that the Norwegian murders were 'nothing'.
Or do you mean his clarification? His clarification sought to defuse the furore by stating that he was actually horrified by the murders and repulsed by the media's response.
You seem to be implying that he published a clear statement belittling the Norwegian murders and promoting vegetarianism, which is clearly nonsense. The whole purpose of his 'statement' was to express his horror at the murders and to give some context to his KFC/McDonalds comment.

Let me start by stating that I have the deepest respect for Morrissey’s contribution to animal welfare. He has converted countless of fans, among which my humble self, to eat less or no meat and has contributed enormously to growth of awareness in many societies.

Now, there have been a lot of discussions on the Norway massacre statement. For me the whole thing boils down to the following question:

Does Morrissey believe his Norway-statement will lead to people eating less meat?

I believe that at some level every human knows that eating animals is wrong. No child will ever look a pig or a rabbit and grab a knife with a watery mouth and a murderous lust in his eyes. A child is much more likely to cuddle with the beast. Killing for food (with enough alternatives on hand) is not a human instinct. In order for a child to become a carnivore, it must be fooled into eating meat, lied to about its intolerable origins and conditioned on the taste. “It’s normal, that is what everybody does, right?”

Based on the above assumption I would argue that everybody who is eating meat is at some level aware of it being wrong. Therefore meat-eaters are constantly applying some kind of technique of justification and/or self-deception.

Now, I wonder if such extreme and alienating statements, as those of Morrissey will not actually allow people to more easily dismiss their doubts on eating meat, arguing that vegetarianism is for crazy extremist who think that them having a “normal” dinner is worse that a human mass murder.

Does Morrissey believe he is changing things for the better with a statement like that or is he committing “unlimited self-sabotage”? See related thread

What do you think?

 

[gwen]

I agree with you completely, which is why I find his statements so heinous.

He made this statement for his own opportunistic reasons, thus dismissing the supposedly voiceless animals he claims to be defending. If he truly cared, he would be more concerned with PERSUASION as a means of encouraging people to agree with his position and not alienating them into completely opposing him out of spite and anger.

So, in effect, he's not only shot himself in the foot with his "statement" but also aided and abetted in the slaughter of several more billion livestock.

Well done, Morrissey?

Poor boy. Obviously reasoning isn't your forte.

 

[The_Myth]

Poor boy. Obviously reasoning isn't your forte.

And your expert reasoning demonstrates ... oh wait, you didn't reason anything except your utter lack of intelligence.

Poor child, next time explain and show instead of tossing out an empty ad hominem that only makes you look like a dunce.

You know what, nevermind. Mission accomplished.

 

[gwen]

And your expert reasoning demonstrates ... oh wait, you didn't reason anything except your utter lack of intelligence.

Poor child, next time explain and show instead of tossing out an empty ad hominem that only makes you look like a dunce.

You know what, nevermind. Mission accomplished.

u mad bro?

 

[Dave]

it all makes sense when you remember that Morrissey is a lifelong InRealLife troll.

 

[bagface]

animal rights sabotage and self sabotage

 

[Will_Never_Marry]

I guess I'm a hypocrite though as I don't shed a tear for dead cockroaches.

Who would?!!!