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Thread: Smiths are for Kids

  1. #1

    Default Smiths are for Kids

    Here's a rather irritating little Smiths tidbit:

    Three Bands Everyone Pretends to Like More Than They Actually Do:

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/three...y-actually-do/

    Excerpt: "Today hearing 'That Joke Isnít Funny Anymore' is nice for about ten seconds until youíre transported back to being an unloved teenager and then things start to get uncomfortable. Your lip starts to quiver, your eyes start blinking rapidly, a zit begins to form on your chin. Suddenly you get the urge to throw your iPod across the room and smash into a million dejected little pieces. Itís okay. This just means youíre a grownup now who doesnít need to magnify their sadness by listening to some closeted British guy wailing."

    Sonic Youth and Radiohead are debatable, but I think relatively few people pretend to like The Smiths (even fewer people would admit to liking Morrissey ).

    Still, there's a grain of truth here: The Smiths sure do bring back them bad old days.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Anaesthesine View Post
    Here's a rather irritating little Smiths tidbit:

    Three Bands Everyone Pretends to Like More Than They Actually Do:

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/three...y-actually-do/

    Excerpt: "Today hearing 'That Joke Isnít Funny Anymore' is nice for about ten seconds until youíre transported back to being an unloved teenager and then things start to get uncomfortable. Your lip starts to quiver, your eyes start blinking rapidly, a zit begins to form on your chin. Suddenly you get the urge to throw your iPod across the room and smash into a million dejected little pieces. Itís okay. This just means youíre a grownup now who doesnít need to magnify their sadness by listening to some closeted British guy wailing."

    Sonic Youth and Radiohead are debatable, but I think relatively few people pretend to like The Smiths (even fewer people would admit to liking Morrissey ).

    Still, there's a grain of truth here: The Smiths sure do bring back them bad old days.
    I suppose I kind of agree with this in a way. I got into the Smiths when I was about 15, and the lyrics spoke to me like nothing I had heard before or since. But now when I listen to the Smiths, I don't feel that anymore. I don't love the songs any less, I just feel differently about them. In a way, they do sum up that late teens/early twenties stage that most people have moved on from.
    I'm 25 now, and find that the songs Morrissey wrote in the early/mid 90s mean more to me in a way I never quite understood when I was younger. I suppose that's one of the good things about having such a large and long back catalogue - you can find a song/album to suit any mood.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Yes, you're older now, and you're a clever swine
    But they were the only things that ever stood by you....



    (not you Karl, the article author)

  4. #4

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Nowadays it's cool to like The Smiths, & to be seen in shirts with The Smiths/Morrissey on.

    Most people class themself as a 'huge fan' even though they only know a few songs (500 Days of Summer) so I know where the person who wrote the article got the idea from.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by kyleleonard View Post
    Nowadays it's cool to like The Smiths, & to be seen in shirts with The Smiths/Morrissey on.

    Most people class themself as a 'huge fan' even though they only know a few songs (500 Days of Summer) so I know where the person who wrote the article got the idea from.
    I couldn't even be bothered to read this silly thing, there are always things that are considered "cool" that people pretend to like, in music- Dylan,Johnny Cash,Bowie,Stones, Kinks, The Jam etc and so yes the Smiths are one of these.
    This of course says nothing about the Smiths and everything about the shallow followers.
    I don't really think The Smiths are for the kids, the issues we have when we are young don't always go away, when one gets older they still feel lonely and what not, I would also say Morrisseys solo output is,at times, more trivial than in the Smiths.

  6. #6
    spontaneously luminescent Oh my god, it's Robby!'s Avatar
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    Talking Re: Smiths are for Kids

    I just wish the kids would not ask me if I saw "The Smiths"
    I am not that old


    ps: note to self, shave more often

  7. #7

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    I wouldn't say the Smiths speak to me any less now then they did when I was a teenager. If anything, rather the opposite.

    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part I find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience, which is a shame to waste just to get something as banal as a confirmation that you are who you thought you were. If anything, the incessant urge to approach the lyrics personally trivialises them, by tending to transform everything into some sort of external comment on states and phenomena already familiar. What happens to fit you can be used in a way that does not really offer anything you didn't already know, what doesn't is discarded or ignored - it's an intrinsically stupefying way to approach them. I don't understand why almost everybody seems to take it for granted that this is nevertheless the only way to listen to them.

    Approach the Smiths era lyrics as something that has nothing to do with you or your life (that is in the very specific sense of "you or your life" - rather, they have a lot to tell anyone), and what you'll find is that all kinds of new and unexpected vistas and twists and turns open up. There's so much there to appreciate and love. The humour, the wit, the characters, the attitude. The marvellous microcosm of Rusholme Ruffians (a lyric the appreciation of which any previous personal strong memories of fairs can only obstruct) - arguably a more than decent stab at accomplishing within a 3-minute pop song something not too different from what John Dos Passos did in 500 pages in Manhattan Transfer. Or the very nearly nauseating indeterminacy of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. The almost biblical punch of a line like See how words as old as sin fit me like a glove. The way melody practically grows out of words like but fresh-lilaced moorland fields cannot hide the stolid stench of death (try saying that line out loud without breaking into melody of some sort: You will find it is almost impossible).

    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    Last edited by Qvist; January 15, 2011 at 07:51 PM.

  8. #8
    Vile Refusenik joe frady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by qvist View Post
    i wouldn't say the smiths speak to me any less now then they did when i was a teenager. If anything, rather the opposite.

    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part i find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience, which is a shame to waste just to get something as banal as a confirmation that you are who you thought you were. If anything, the incessant urge to approach the lyrics personally trivialises them, by tending to transform everything into some sort of external comment on states and phenomena already familiar. What happens to fit you can be used in a way that does not really offer anything you didn't already know, what doesn't is discarded or ignored - it's an intrinsically stupefying way to approach them. I don't understand why almost everybody seems to take it for granted that this is nevertheless the only way to listen to them.

    Approach the smiths era lyrics as something that has nothing to do with you or your life (that is in the very specific sense of "you or your life" - rather, they have a lot to tell anyone), and what you'll find is that all kinds of new and unexpected vistas and twists and turns open up. There's so much there to appreciate and love. The humour, the wit, the characters, the attitude. The marvellous microcosm of rusholme ruffians (a lyric the appreciation of which any previous personal strong memories of fairs can only obstruct) - arguably a more than decent stab at accomplishing within a 3-minute pop song something not too different from what john dos passos did in 500 pages in manhattan transfer. Or the very nearly nauseating indeterminacy of the hand that rocks the cradle. The almost biblical punch of a line like see how words as old as sin fit me like a glove. The way melody practically grows out of words like but fresh-lilaced moorland fields cannot hide the stolid stench of death (try saying that line out loud without breaking into melody of some sort: You will find it is almost impossible).

    Sure the smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when i was 16. But that was because i was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because i'm a different person, of course. But what i heard then was not what the smiths were about, it was just what i was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    Marry me!
    "Morrissey is wearing a pair of vintage jeans and sipping from a can of Red Bull."
    Mon Coeur ne bat que pour Morrissey

  9. #9
    Junior Member billybu69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    The most obvious contender has been completely ignored here. The Ramones, There T-shirts are seen constantly in the media adorning young fasionistas, faces which its so obvious would not know a Gabba gabba Hey! if they tripped over it. I can only put it down to the strength of the graphic.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    In 2008, the Sid & Nancy vest-tops which Topshop were selling, I knew about 5 girls who owned & wore one regularly, but none of them knew who Sid & Nancy were....
    Last edited by kyleleonard; January 16, 2011 at 01:40 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Next were selling Ramones, Rolling Stones, Motorhead and GN'R t-shirts the last time I was in. It annoyed me a bit that the majority of people who buy these probably think Lady Gaga and the Fast Food Rockers are the height of musical greatness. But music snobs annoy me even more, so I don't really care any more. They're only t-shirts.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Interesting observations.

    I suppose we all process music in a different way, and mileage may vary.

    Personally, the only '80s band that I found myself missing at the turn of the century was The Smiths. I found, however, that I just couldn't listen to them for very long - the memories and associations were too strong. Listening to The Smiths brought back a time and a place that I didn't care to revisit (for many reasons). So, the music is timelessly great, but for me the ghosts are simply too much. The same goes for Siouxsie and a handful of other bands who really made their mark.

    I guess I missed the more recent cultural moment when The Smiths once again became flavor-of-the-month (I thought they were eternally the band that people loved to hate). Still, as long as the music is heard, that's all that matters.

    As for the bands everyone pretends to like, I think The Ramones (as has been observed) really do deserve to be somewhere near the top of that list. I'm going to throw in John Cage, too (not a band, I know). No one will admit that they've never heard of him (or listened to his music), and no one will admit that they don't like him, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    Amen.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Posers h8.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    a positive spin on that article is that there is an underlying recognition that The Smiths are a hugely credible band, because you are 'supposed to like them'...
    so what if folk say they like them and can't recite all their songs - there's different levels of fandom, some folk are just a tad more fanatical than others.

    ...and, wearing a t-shirt isn't always a political or musical statement - it's sometimes just a fashion statement (sadly)


    Quote Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part I find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience.....


    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    wise words, Qvist

    .

    Luv Nightie
    x

  15. #15

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    I am glad that I listened to the Smiths because I wanted to and not to satiate some morbid teen angst phase. The Smiths is everything to me, so I will continue to appreciate their artistry and impact as i continue to age. I won't let poseurs ruin it for me.

    I wouldn't say the Smiths speak to me any less now then they did when I was a teenager. If anything, rather the opposite.

    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part I find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience, which is a shame to waste just to get something as banal as a confirmation that you are who you thought you were. If anything, the incessant urge to approach the lyrics personally trivialises them, by tending to transform everything into some sort of external comment on states and phenomena already familiar. What happens to fit you can be used in a way that does not really offer anything you didn't already know, what doesn't is discarded or ignored - it's an intrinsically stupefying way to approach them. I don't understand why almost everybody seems to take it for granted that this is nevertheless the only way to listen to them.

    Approach the Smiths era lyrics as something that has nothing to do with you or your life (that is in the very specific sense of "you or your life" - rather, they have a lot to tell anyone), and what you'll find is that all kinds of new and unexpected vistas and twists and turns open up. There's so much there to appreciate and love. The humour, the wit, the characters, the attitude. The marvellous microcosm of Rusholme Ruffians (a lyric the appreciation of which any previous personal strong memories of fairs can only obstruct) - arguably a more than decent stab at accomplishing within a 3-minute pop song something not too different from what John Dos Passos did in 500 pages in Manhattan Transfer. Or the very nearly nauseating indeterminacy of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. The almost biblical punch of a line like See how words as old as sin fit me like a glove. The way melody practically grows out of words like but fresh-lilaced moorland fields cannot hide the stolid stench of death (try saying that line out loud without breaking into melody of some sort: You will find it is almost impossible).

    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Anaesthesine View Post
    Here's a rather irritating little Smiths tidbit:

    Three Bands Everyone Pretends to Like More Than They Actually Do:

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/three...y-actually-do/

    Excerpt: "Today hearing 'That Joke Isnít Funny Anymore' is nice for about ten seconds until youíre transported back to being an unloved teenager and then things start to get uncomfortable. Your lip starts to quiver, your eyes start blinking rapidly, a zit begins to form on your chin. Suddenly you get the urge to throw your iPod across the room and smash into a million dejected little pieces. Itís okay. This just means youíre a grownup now who doesnít need to magnify their sadness by listening to some closeted British guy wailing."

    Sonic Youth and Radiohead are debatable, but I think relatively few people pretend to like The Smiths (even fewer people would admit to liking Morrissey ).

    Still, there's a grain of truth here: The Smiths sure do bring back them bad old days.
    Did anyone else feel that the author horridly unqualified to speak of the Smiths in such a fashion, when the author obviously doesn't understand the complexity if Morrissey's sexuality to begin with?

  17. #17
    Go failure! KenzieW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
    I wouldn't say the Smiths speak to me any less now then they did when I was a teenager. If anything, rather the opposite.

    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part I find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience, which is a shame to waste just to get something as banal as a confirmation that you are who you thought you were. If anything, the incessant urge to approach the lyrics personally trivialises them, by tending to transform everything into some sort of external comment on states and phenomena already familiar. What happens to fit you can be used in a way that does not really offer anything you didn't already know, what doesn't is discarded or ignored - it's an intrinsically stupefying way to approach them. I don't understand why almost everybody seems to take it for granted that this is nevertheless the only way to listen to them.

    Approach the Smiths era lyrics as something that has nothing to do with you or your life (that is in the very specific sense of "you or your life" - rather, they have a lot to tell anyone), and what you'll find is that all kinds of new and unexpected vistas and twists and turns open up. There's so much there to appreciate and love. The humour, the wit, the characters, the attitude. The marvellous microcosm of Rusholme Ruffians (a lyric the appreciation of which any previous personal strong memories of fairs can only obstruct) - arguably a more than decent stab at accomplishing within a 3-minute pop song something not too different from what John Dos Passos did in 500 pages in Manhattan Transfer. Or the very nearly nauseating indeterminacy of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. The almost biblical punch of a line like See how words as old as sin fit me like a glove. The way melody practically grows out of words like but fresh-lilaced moorland fields cannot hide the stolid stench of death (try saying that line out loud without breaking into melody of some sort: You will find it is almost impossible).

    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    Excuse me, I am making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up. - The Doctor

  18. #18

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
    I wouldn't say the Smiths speak to me any less now then they did when I was a teenager. If anything, rather the opposite.

    People tend to relate to lyrics in an unneccessarily personal way. For my part I find that you tend to miss most of what a lyric has to offer if you go into it listening to it as if it was a comment to your own life and your own existence - it isn't. It is something far more interesting, namely somebody else's, transmuted into a form that is generally accessible. It gives you something that is beyond your own experience, which is a shame to waste just to get something as banal as a confirmation that you are who you thought you were. If anything, the incessant urge to approach the lyrics personally trivialises them, by tending to transform everything into some sort of external comment on states and phenomena already familiar. What happens to fit you can be used in a way that does not really offer anything you didn't already know, what doesn't is discarded or ignored - it's an intrinsically stupefying way to approach them. I don't understand why almost everybody seems to take it for granted that this is nevertheless the only way to listen to them.

    Approach the Smiths era lyrics as something that has nothing to do with you or your life (that is in the very specific sense of "you or your life" - rather, they have a lot to tell anyone), and what you'll find is that all kinds of new and unexpected vistas and twists and turns open up. There's so much there to appreciate and love. The humour, the wit, the characters, the attitude. The marvellous microcosm of Rusholme Ruffians (a lyric the appreciation of which any previous personal strong memories of fairs can only obstruct) - arguably a more than decent stab at accomplishing within a 3-minute pop song something not too different from what John Dos Passos did in 500 pages in Manhattan Transfer. Or the very nearly nauseating indeterminacy of The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. The almost biblical punch of a line like See how words as old as sin fit me like a glove. The way melody practically grows out of words like but fresh-lilaced moorland fields cannot hide the stolid stench of death (try saying that line out loud without breaking into melody of some sort: You will find it is almost impossible).

    Sure the Smiths felt like it addressed me uniquely when I was 16. But that was because I was 16. Nearly everything that mattered to me felt that way - you're hard-wired to focus in that direction at that age. It doesn't in the same way now because I'm a different person, of course. But what I heard then was not what the Smiths were about, it was just what I was capable of absorbing at that time. And there's more. Plenty of it. Embrace the fact that the music doesn't reach you in the same way anymore as an advantage - the unleashing of great art from the fetters of your sordid teenage existence. It never was about you. And these lyrics are much to be good to be wasted on mere self-recognition.
    I agree with the general flow of this, my only real niggle is holding Rusholme Ruffians up as an example of Morrissey constructing a great story, as this song is basically a rip off of a Victoria Wood song- 14 again, if memory serves me correctly.
    I also, feel you are somewhat belittling the power of the personal. All good art is personal (in my mind, at least) and pop art is as much about the listener as the writer- thus it is about us as well as him, in short it's to do with human connection and a shared knowing (this is what made a Smiths concert such an event)
    Some may not quite get The Smiths in their youth but then a lot don't get it in adulthood.
    Self recognition is very powerful, it is never "mere".
    Last edited by murder and desire; January 20, 2011 at 09:59 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    Quote Originally Posted by murder and desire View Post
    I agree with the general flow of this, my only real niggle is holding Rusholme Ruffians up as an example of Morrissey constructing a great story, as this song is basically a rip off of a Victoria Wood song- 14 again, if memory serves me correctly.
    I didn't know that actually, thanks for the heads-up. Not that it makes the lyric less great.

    I also, feel you are somewhat belittling the power of the personal. All good art is personal (in my mind, at least) and pop art is as much about the listener as the writer- thus it is about us as well as him, in short it's to do with human connection and a shared knowing (this is what made a Smiths concert such an event)
    Some may not quite get The Smiths in their youth but then a lot don't get it in adulthood.
    Self recognition is very powerful, it is never "mere".
    Well spotted and fair points all, I was half expecting someone to make them. You're right, of course. I was piling it on a bit, but my point was mainly that the relationship to a piece of music doesn't need to stop at the personal level, and that the waning of the personal circumstances that fed the connection originally does not need to imply the waning of the music. I didn't intend to put the Smiths up on some lofty pedestal of great, olympian art to be admired at a distance. I wouldn't dream of poo-pooing the significance of human and utterly subjective connection, youthful or otherwise. But I do think it ultimately turns out to be not the most important thing when it comes to truly great stuff - part of it though it may be. A time and place for everything, perhaps?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Smiths are for Kids

    I think the fact that lyrics that can seem to be so intensely personal at age 14 yet turn out to have so many more broader and signficant layers of meaning as one grows up is just one more reason that Morrissey's lyrics are genius.

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