Is Morrissey still the role model he once was to you?

[dicartwright]

Is Morrissey still the role model he once was to you?

No. Not at all. I've always dreamed with the idea of him and I being friends in the 80's, but we would have fallen apart by now anyway.

I don't like that.

[The Seeker of Good Songs]

Morrissey never has been a role model to me, I simply appreciate / enjoy his musical output.

As Kewpie and others have said,
he has never been a role model to me. I was drawn to the music when I heard it on the radio over 25 years ago. It was a combination of the voice and the music. The lyrics came shortly thereafter.

How can someone who hears these words not be drawn to the man who wrote them and wonder what else he thinks and what he might pen next:

"...when you laugh about people who feel so
very lonely
their only desire is to die
well I'm afraid
it doesn't make me smile
I wish I could laugh
but that joke isn't funny anymore
it's too close to home
and it's too near the bone
it's too close to home
and it's too near the bone
more than you'll ever know..."

"...how can they look into my eyes
still they don't believe me
how can they hear me say those words
still they don't believe me
and if they don't believe me now
will they ever believe me?..."

"Please don't cry
for the ghost and the storm outside
will not invade this sacred shrine
nor infiltrate your mind
my life down I shall lie
if the bogey-man should try
to play tricks on your sacred mind
to tease, torment and tantalise...
...when darkness lifts and the room is bright
I'll still be by your side
for you are all that matters
and I'll love you till the day I die
there never need be longing in your eyes
as long as the hand that rocks the cradle is mine..."

compared to other songs of the time:

"...WE built this city,
We built this city on rock and roll
Say you don't know me, or recognize my face
Say you don't care who goes to that kind of place
Knee deep in the hoopla, sinking in your fight
Too many runaways eating up the night..."

"...Girl, I can't understand it why you want to hurt me
After all the things I've done for you
I buy you champagne and roses and diamonds on your finger
(Diamonds on your finger)
Still you hang out all night
what am I to do?
My girl wants to party all the time
Party all the time
party all the time
My girl wants to party all the time
party all the time..."

"Hee...
Sugar pop
Funky pops
Coffee, tea or me, baby, touche ole
My opening line might be a bit passe
But don't think that I don't know what I'm feeling for you
'Cause I got a vibe on you the first time that I saw you, saw you
I need your love and I won't bring no pain
A little birdie told me that you feel the same
I'm for the real and for you I'm true blue
Let's make a deal, sugar, all I want to do is be your one and only lover
I just want to be your lovergirl
I just want to rock your world
Hey...hey...hey..."

No, he has never been my role model. I do not agree with everything he says or all the songs he likes. He has to go to the toilet like the rest of us.
"Omnes una manet nox - The same night awaits us all."

[Maurice E]

compared to other songs of the time:
"...WE built this city,
We built this city on rock and roll
Say you don't know me, or recognize my face
Say you don't care who goes to that kind of place
Knee deep in the hoopla, sinking in your fight
Too many runaways eating up the night..."

hey dude - don't knock Starship!

[Librarian On Fire]

Morrissey has never been a role model for me. I admire the man for many reasons, but the role model would be my father.

At times I dislike Morrissey's childish behaviour. His gudges he carries become tired. We all have to grow up, face things head on and become better for it. Being bitter is not nice.

However I currently admire Morrissey's fashion. I'm copying that as much as possible because I like it that much. Of course the music always remains.

[Eraserhead]

I

I'm with the original poster.

When I was younger (25 years ago) I thought Morrissey was singing about my life. Later I learned it was all a clever and careful persona. For the past decade the persona has been neither all that clever, nor all that carefully constructed. He has built some wonderfully sincere sounding songs over the years but seems to have lost most of the ability to feign either sincerity or being emotionally invested. I'm not even sure that - being so emotionally stunted - the persona could have grown up. In any case it is less subtle, less poetic, less emotionally intelligent and less universal.

Kudos to the apologists who faithfully defend what they must surely be refusing to acknowledge. He was never perfect nor is he incapable of creating interesting verse still, but the quality is not longer there lyrically and it certainly is not musically.

If you think Morrissey has spent his life basically acting then you are a complete fool. It is his dedication to his artistry that makes him so special. Where does his life begin and his art end? You simply can't get greater sincerity or commitment and I actually find what you say incredibly offensive. Shame on you.

[Mmmmmm]

I

If you think Morrissey has spent his life basically acting then you are a complete fool. It is his dedication to his artistry that makes him so special. Where does his life begin and his art end? You simply can't get greater sincerity or commitment and I actually find what you say incredibly offensive. Shame on you.

Huh?! Of course he wrote in other voices other than his own. All song writers do. We constantly explore other personae besides our own. If anything our art is the ability to imagine outside of our own identity - to empathize with others and communicate ideas from our imagined experience. No one is interesting and diverse - or egotistical - enough to spend a career writing in their own voice only what they experience. The artist chooses human behaviours and arranges them in verse. He needn't limit himself to his own life encounters.

It has nothing to do with dedication, nor even with sincerity. Songwriters's gift is to lie sincerely. You believe everything he has written at face value? (Surely the man would not still be alive given the number of times he's opined for his own demise) If you do, I accept ignorance as your reason for insulting me. Otherwise, learn to read before insulting people smarter than you.

[Valjean]

Nobody's perfect and Moz is far from it but that's why I love him. Because he's normal.

[Soil Falling Over]

Well I know nobody here could give 3 shits about my opinion but still, oh well - he's never been a ''role model'' to me. I just don't fit or belong anywhere or to anyone so my lifestyle will pretty much always be like Morrissey describes in some of his lyrics. Alone, lonely and unhappy. Not necessarily by choice, since I was born this way and I'm gonna die this way.
I don't have a role model cos I don't want to be anything in this life, it's utterly worthless and painful... for the love of God - What Is The Point???
I strongly disagree with Librarian on Fire he's not childish at all, you sound like you don't know a fuck about it

He is not a 'role model' for me across the board, but is very much so in a critical area I'd like to see you embrace as well: His example reminds me that the outsider-disposition or being solitary-soul can be a dark & lonely experience, but he refuses to feel shame for it, refuses to keep it to himself, and proves it as the well-spring for some great insights and wonderful creative art. He is passionate where some of us would simply be sad or disappointed in ourselves. Every human disposition offers insight & Morrissey is my 'role model' for the passion, insight, and powerful offered by the solitary-life. It take great courage to parade your "odd" personal ways to the masses, and he does so gladly & with passion. For this example I am grateful!!!

This hits me especially clearly, perhaps, because as a fine art photographer who shoots urban landscapes, I am convinced the stark, un-peopled sites I shoot ring with emotional energy specifically because of this disposition. As I became increasingly isolated, I found emotional energies in the landscape that most people miss. Like Morrissey, I think I've turned this solitary-disposition into something expressive; and he has helped me find pride in it.

And for the record, Cosmic Dancer, while I might not give 3 shits for your opinion, it's worth at least one or two....

[Eraserhead]

Huh?! Of course he wrote in other voices other than his own. All song writers do. We constantly explore other personae besides our own. If anything our art is the ability to imagine outside of our own identity - to empathize with others and communicate ideas from our imagined experience. No one is interesting and diverse - or egotistical - enough to spend a career writing in their own voice only what they experience. The artist chooses human behaviours and arranges them in verse. He needn't limit himself to his own life encounters.

It has nothing to do with dedication, nor even with sincerity. Songwriters's gift is to lie sincerely. You believe everything he has written at face value? (Surely the man would not still be alive given the number of times he's opined for his own demise) If you do, I accept ignorance as your reason for insulting me. Otherwise, learn to read before insulting people smarter than you.

Your arrogance is astounding but you presume too much. Yes, of course the art of songwriting involves fictitious voices aswell as facets of the singer's personality to varying degrees, but to suggest Morrissey has spent his career feigning sincerity reveals a total lack of understanding on your part.

[not_me_not_I]

Your arrogance is astounding but you presume too much. Yes, of course the art of songwriting involves fictitious voices as well as facets of the singer's personality to varying degrees, but to suggest Morrissey has spent his career feigning sincerity reveals a total lack of understanding on your part.

This.
You can be emotionally sincere without every incident in your lyrics being historically and personally accurate.

And I don't believe that Morrissey ever feigned sincerity in interviews. He's been evasive and playful and has outright lied in interviews, but those lies are obvious, are used as a form of parrying, and are completely consistent with the person that he's always presented himself as. To see this though, you need to be able to understand this playful aspect of his personality.

When he becomes serious at moments, like when he discusses loneliness or suicide or how appalling he finds animal cruelty, I believe his sincerity. You can be suicidal for a long time without actually killing yourself. Being alive doesn't mean you don't want to kill yourself.

[Eraserhead]

This.
You can be emotionally sincere without every incident in your lyrics being historically and personally accurate.

And I don't believe that Morrissey ever feigned sincerity in interviews. He's been evasive and playful and has outright lied in interviews, but those lies are obvious, are used as a form of parrying, and are completely consistent with the person that he's always presented himself as. To see this though, you need to be able to understand this playful aspect of his personality.

When he becomes serious at moments, like when he discusses loneliness or suicide or how appalling he finds animal cruelty, I believe his sincerity. You can be suicidal for a long time without actually killing yourself. Being alive doesn't mean you don't want to kill yourself.

Very well articulated.

[JoanOfArc]

Spot on. I'd rather be Johnny Marr than Morrissey anyway

So what are you doing on this website moron?It is called Morrissey-solo,not Marr-solo.

[JoanOfArc]

I'm with the original poster.

When I was younger (25 years ago) I thought Morrissey was singing about my life. Later I learned it was all a clever and careful persona. For the past decade the persona has been neither all that clever, nor all that carefully constructed. He has built some wonderfully sincere sounding songs over the years but seems to have lost most of the ability to feign either sincerity or being emotionally invested. I'm not even sure that - being so emotionally stunted - the persona could have grown up. In any case it is less subtle, less poetic, less emotionally intelligent and less universal.

Kudos to the apologists who faithfully defend what they must surely be refusing to acknowledge. He was never perfect nor is he incapable of creating interesting verse still, but the quality is not longer there lyrically and it certainly is not musically.

Blah blah and blah
Lyrics:"you're older now
And you're a clever swine"were written about you.

[marred]

After taking another look at this thread it has just dawned on me that the people that have been listening to Morrissey all these years and think that he has been feigning sincerity haven't gotten him all along. It's time to cash in your Moz chips and start up that Robbie Williams Collection you've been thinking of. You never know he may have been singing about your life this whole time?

[Dave]

"The teenagers who love you will wake up, yawn, and kill you" is another good one.

this whole idea of a celebrity being a role model is not healthy, is it? I think that if you have something in common with them and you can learn from them, that's great, but it's very strange to think that because you buy records and think about someone you don't know more than you should, that they should somehow owe you something more than they've given.

If Morrissey had retired when The Smiths ended and turned into a recluse, like Syd Barrett, many people would be happier. He wouldn't be around to crash into your illusions, and you would have your memories, perfectly preserved.

I think that there are some celebrities that might be good role models in some ways, but they are ultimately all flawed, and all come from a unique perspective that no one else could possibly share anyway. The work he did in the past did not constitute a contract that he would continue to please you now or in the future. He's quite aware of this, and has stated it plainly more than once or twice.

[murder and desire]

5'8" is average not short though i'm 6'3".

I'd rather have Johnny's lifestyle than Mozzer's.

I would rather have Bowies than both of them but where does that get us?

if johnny is 5' 8 then I am Pat Butcher.....,I am not Pat Butcher

[marred]

Human beings make terrible role models anyway.

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

It has nothing to do with dedication, nor even with sincerity. Songwriters's gift is to lie sincerely. You believe everything he has written at face value? (Surely the man would not still be alive given the number of times he's opined for his own demise) If you do, I accept ignorance as your reason for insulting me. Otherwise, learn to read before insulting people smarter than you.

That really is a ridiculously arrogant and unpleasant response.

He is not a 'role model' for me across the board, but is very much so in a critical area I'd like to see you embrace as well: His example reminds me that the outsider-disposition or being solitary-soul can be a dark & lonely experience, but he refuses to feel shame for it, refuses to keep it to himself, and proves it as the well-spring for some great insights and wonderful creative art. He is passionate where some of us would simply be sad or disappointed in ourselves. Every human disposition offers insight & Morrissey is my 'role model' for the passion, insight, and powerful offered by the solitary-life. It take great courage to parade your "odd" personal ways to the masses, and he does so gladly & with passion. For this example I am grateful!!!

This hits me especially clearly, perhaps, because as a fine art photographer who shoots urban landscapes, I am convinced the stark, un-peopled sites I shoot ring with emotional energy specifically because of this disposition. As I became increasingly isolated, I found emotional energies in the landscape that most people miss. Like Morrissey, I think I've turned this solitary-disposition into something expressive; and he has helped me find pride in it.

And for the record, Cosmic Dancer, while I might not give 3 shits for your opinion, it's worth at least one or two....

I feel exactly the same. May add more later.

[Mmmmmm]

That really is a ridiculously arrogant and unpleasant response.

I'll call it a success then, shall I?

Of course it's all a persona. Ridiculous, arrogant and unpleasant... reminds me of someone. Someone's persona anyhow.

[joe frady]

I'll call it a success then, shall I?

Of course it's all a persona. Ridiculous, arrogant and unpleasant... reminds me of someone. Someone's persona anyhow.

Hitler?