Morrissey & the Oscar Wilde Influence

G

goinghome

Guest
Since the early days of The Smiths up to Morrissey's most recent radio intervew on 'Desert Island Discs' where he chose the complete works to take to the island, the writings of Oscar Wilde figure prominently in any list of influences on Morrissey. There are others on that list too whose impact might be clearer when examining Morrissey the artist, so I wonder where we can see the parallels best. Another possibility is that traces are few, given the opinion that Wilde put in the mouth of one of his characters in '...Dorian Grey' who, ironically, was most definitely aiming to manipulate through his words:

From ch. 2 of Dorian Grey;
'"There is no such thing as a good influence, Mr. Gray. All influence is immoral--immoral from the scientific point of view."

"Why?"

"Because to influence a person is to give him one's own soul. He does not think his natural thoughts, or burn with his natural passions. His
virtues are not real to him. His sins, if there are such things as sins, are borrowed. He becomes an echo of some one else's music, an
actor of a part that has not been written for him. The aim of life is self-development. To realize one's nature perfectly--that is what each
of us is here for. People are afraid of themselves, nowadays. They have forgotten the highest of all duties, the duty that one owes to
one's self. Of course, they are charitable. They feed the hungry and clothe the beggar. But their own souls starve, and are naked. Courage
has gone out of our race. Perhaps we never really had it. The terror of society, which is the basis of morals, the terror of God, which is
the secret of religion--these are the two things that govern us. And yet--"

"Just turn your head a little more to the right, Dorian, like a good boy," said the painter, deep in his work and conscious only that a look
had come into the lad's face that he had never seen there before.

"And yet," continued Lord Henry, in his low, musical voice, and with that graceful wave of the hand that was always so characteristic of
him, and that he had even in his Eton days, "I believe that if one man were to live out his life fully and completely, were to give form to
every feeling, expression to every thought, reality to every dream--I believe that the world would gain such a fresh impulse of joy that we
would forget all the maladies of mediaevalism, and return to the Hellenic ideal--to something finer, richer than the Hellenic ideal, it
may be. But the bravest man amongst us is afraid of himself. The mutilation of the savage has its tragic survival in the self-denial
that mars our lives. We are punished for our refusals. Every impulse that we strive to strangle broods in the mind and poisons us. The body
sins once, and has done with its sin, for action is a mode of purification. Nothing remains then but the recollection of a pleasure,
or the luxury of a regret. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for
the things it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful. It has been said that
the great events of the world take place in the brain. It is in the brain, and the brain only, that the great sins of the world take place
also..."'

To digress a little, Wilde's only novel set out to show that there are some alarming consequences lying at the end of this road. Most bizarrely to my mind, he repeated in his own life much of the Grey character's socially risky behaviour despite sketching in the book the horrific potential therein for social ostracisation and personal ruin. In this sense, the book is almost like his portrait, and in a limited way, upholds his view that life imitates art.

Of course he was, and is, much more than that to many people. In Morrissey's art, besides Cemetry Gate and his wit, is he evident? It's really serious! :squiffy:
 
Chose the menu "Under the influence" and you'll get many informations about Wilde's influence under Morrissey.
 
Last edited:
"Because to influence a person is to give him one's own soul. He does not think his natural thoughts, or burn with his natural passions. His virtues are not real to him. His sins, if there are such things as sins, are borrowed. He becomes an echo of some one else's music, an actor of a part that has not been written for him. The aim of life is self-development. To realize one's nature perfectly--that is what each of us is here for. People are afraid of themselves, nowadays. They have forgotten the highest of all duties, the duty that one owes to one's self. (...)

We are punished for our refusals".

...Reading that again I'm not sure Wilde would be on Morrissey's side. :D
 
Goinghome wouldn't you care to contribute 'a little something' to the creative writing thread? I like your style.
 
"Because to influence a person is to give him one's own soul.

Of course he was, and is, much more than that to many people. In Morrissey's art, besides Cemetry Gate and his wit, is he evident? It's really serious! :squiffy:

I hope I have Morrissey's soul. Yeah, Morrissey is definitely influenced by Wilde - but not only in the artistic factor, because Morrissey's life is as troubled as Wilde's was.
 
Hey GH - you know this is my favorite topic. How am I supposed to get any serious work done when you post stuff like this? ;)

Maybe the relevant issue is no longer Wilde's influence on Morrissey (we all know what Morrissey has had to say about it over the years - many of us can site his references chapter and verse).

No, the more interesting subject in my mind is how Morrissey became (deliberately or not) the Oscar Wilde of the post-punk generation. It is a fascinating instance of the artistic/spiritual transmutation of one powerful, charismatic personality into another.

I discovered Oscar Wilde at roughly the same time in my life that Morrissey did - I was about nine or ten years old. OW had the same effect on me that he had on Morrissey; I was a bookish, shy, socially withdrawn child, and Oscar Wilde was a bolt-out-of-the-blue. Suddenly there was someone who made sense to me, who experienced and explained the world in terms that I could relate to and understand. He was my totem and my guide. I emulated him, but I did not imitate him - Oscar Wilde introduced me to myself. In my own small way, I'm carrying his influence with me still, into a future that still desperately needs it.

When The Smiths came along, I have to admit that I rolled my eyes (sacrilege as that may be). I recognized Morrissey as being Of The Tribe; the man was clearly one of us. He had Oscar Wilde written all over him, although it was combined with so many other influences unique to Morrissey that he dazzled everyone with his originality.

The importance of Oscar Wilde the aesthete/decadent/dandy/philosopher/artist/writer/thinker/provocateur/wit as avatar is still relevant these days, thanks in no small part to SPM's emulation of his spirit and his message (both deliberate and unintentional). There are just so many things both obvious and elusive that connect the two. On a night when Morrissey is still particularly graceful, charismatic and clever, I feel not only a little closer to Oscar Wilde, but I feel a little closer to a certain timeless, universal, essentially artistic archetype that Oscar Wilde and Morrissey both embody, but by no means define.

They are two priceless peas in a pod, no doubt about it.
 
Hey GH - you know this is my favorite topic. How am I supposed to get any serious work done when you post stuff like this? ;)

Maybe the relevant issue is no longer Wilde's influence on Morrissey (we all know what Morrissey has had to say about it over the years - many of us can site his references chapter and verse).

No, the more interesting subject in my mind is how Morrissey became (deliberately or not) the Oscar Wilde of the post-punk generation. It is a fascinating instance of the artistic/spiritual transmutation of one powerful, charismatic personality into another.

I discovered Oscar Wilde at roughly the same time in my life that Morrissey did - I was about nine or ten years old. OW had the same effect on me that he had on Morrissey; I was a bookish, shy, socially withdrawn child, and Oscar Wilde was a bolt-out-of-the-blue. Suddenly there was someone who made sense to me, who experienced and explained the world in terms that I could relate to and understand. He was my totem and my guide. I emulated him, but I did not imitate him - Oscar Wilde introduced me to myself. In my own small way, I'm carrying his influence with me still, into a future that still desperately needs it.

When The Smiths came along, I have to admit that I rolled my eyes (sacrilege as that may be). I recognized Morrissey as being Of The Tribe; the man was clearly one of us. He had Oscar Wilde written all over him, although it was combined with so many other influences unique to Morrissey that he dazzled everyone with his originality.

The importance of Oscar Wilde the aesthete/decadent/dandy/philosopher/artist/writer/thinker/provocateur/wit as avatar is still relevant these days, thanks in no small part to SPM's emulation of his spirit and his message (both deliberate and unintentional). There are just so many things both obvious and elusive that connect the two. On a night when Morrissey is still particularly graceful, charismatic and clever, I feel not only a little closer to Oscar Wilde, but I feel a little closer to a certain timeless, universal, essentially artistic archetype that Oscar Wilde and Morrissey both embody, but by no means define.

They are two priceless peas in a pod, no doubt about it.

I've yet to discover Wilde. It is strange that someone of ten can appreciate Wilde. To what extent did you actually comprehend it?
 
Hey GH - you know this is my favorite topic. How am I supposed to get any serious work done when you post stuff like this? ;)

Maybe the relevant issue is no longer Wilde's influence on Morrissey (we all know what Morrissey has had to say about it over the years - many of us can site his references chapter and verse).

No, the more interesting subject in my mind is how Morrissey became (deliberately or not) the Oscar Wilde of the post-punk generation. It is a fascinating instance of the artistic/spiritual transmutation of one powerful, charismatic personality into another.

I discovered Oscar Wilde at roughly the same time in my life that Morrissey did - I was about nine or ten years old. OW had the same effect on me that he had on Morrissey; I was a bookish, shy, socially withdrawn child, and Oscar Wilde was a bolt-out-of-the-blue. Suddenly there was someone who made sense to me, who experienced and explained the world in terms that I could relate to and understand. He was my totem and my guide. I emulated him, but I did not imitate him - Oscar Wilde introduced me to myself. In my own small way, I'm carrying his influence with me still, into a future that still desperately needs it.

When The Smiths came along, I have to admit that I rolled my eyes (sacrilege as that may be). I recognized Morrissey as being Of The Tribe; the man was clearly one of us. He had Oscar Wilde written all over him, although it was combined with so many other influences unique to Morrissey that he dazzled everyone with his originality.

The importance of Oscar Wilde the aesthete/decadent/dandy/philosopher/artist/writer/thinker/provocateur/wit as avatar is still relevant these days, thanks in no small part to SPM's emulation of his spirit and his message (both deliberate and unintentional). There are just so many things both obvious and elusive that connect the two. On a night when Morrissey is still particularly graceful, charismatic and clever, I feel not only a little closer to Oscar Wilde, but I feel a little closer to a certain timeless, universal, essentially artistic archetype that Oscar Wilde and Morrissey both embody, but by no means define.

They are two priceless peas in a pod, no doubt about it.

I'm sorry, Stephane has done the job in his excellent http://passionsjustlikemine.com

;)...
 
I've yet to discover Wilde. It is strange that someone of ten can appreciate Wilde. To what extent did you actually comprehend it?

Hello Dr. Jekyll - it's been a while.

Oscar Wilde is very popular with children - have you not read his melancholic fairy tales?

In any event, I first encountered Oscar Wilde as a somewhat broad characterization on a TeeVee show. I fell hopelessly, passionately in love (as girls at that age tend to do) with his character. Eventually I ripped into his more accessible writings, and began to toss my head and quip in what I assume was an extremely irritating manner. My comprehension at such an early age was a bit unsophisticated, I must admit. By the time I was in High School, however, I was fully indoctrinated, and my DNA forever altered.

As for full comprehension of Oscar Wilde, that took me a bit longer - it may take me a few years still. I had to live and suffer and sing and make plenty of painful mistakes before works like The Ballad of Reading Goal really hit home.
 
Hello Dr. Jekyll - it's been a while.

Oscar Wilde is very popular with children - have you not read his melancholic fairy tales?

In any event, I first encountered Oscar Wilde as a somewhat broad characterization on a TeeVee show. I fell hopelessly, passionately in love (as girls at that age tend to do) with his character. Eventually I ripped into his more accessible writings, and began to toss my head and quip in what I assume was an extremely irritating manner. My comprehension at such an early age was a bit unsophisticated, I must admit. By the time I was in High School, however, I was fully indoctrinated, and my DNA forever altered.

As for full comprehension of Oscar Wilde, that took me a bit longer - it may take me a few years still. I had to live and suffer and sing and make plenty of painful mistakes before works like The Ballad of Reading Goal really hit home.

That poem is among my all-time most cherished. It's one of the few Wildean things I've been grabbed by. Having said that, I've barely touched upon his writing. I just haven't had time, as shallow as that must seem to a person reading Wilde at ten.

At ten, I think I was more a 'Fraggle Rock' and 'Basil Brush' man.

Incidentally, how did I come to be known as 'Dr Jekyll?' Is it because I have a complex, multi-layered personality, by turns sophisticated, witty, reflective and primitive? Or is it because I'm a shifty sod with a chip on my shoulder? Do I know you? I don't usually forget people, even in the written form.

I shall return to this conversation shortly. But first, time for a walk in the freezing northern air. I'll be back in due course.
 
Last edited:
:flowers:Stephane has certainly done very good detective work, thanks, Kewpie. That tale about the nightingale, and the one about the devoted friend, also strike me as shockingly hard-hitting, leaving an impression quite opposite to that formed from stories like The Little Prince or The Selfish Giant.

Here is one quote that I think approaches the reason for the overall appeal:

- In an interview given to the NME in 1988 Morrissey said "...regardless of how he wrote and how he lived in the public sense, his private life was just as astounding. And that's the final judgement of all artists. (...) I've read practically everything (by and about him) and I have a vast collection of first editions, one signed by Ellen Terry, an old chick of Oscar's... Although he was the most intelligent [person] he simplified everything, therefore practically anybody could read Oscar Wilde and understand. He wasn't complicated yet he still left you lying on the bed panting because it was so real and truthful." -

It's not just his work but his whole life that has fascinated Morrissey who, as Anaesthesine and Raphael Lambach note, wields Wildean flourishes in the post-punk era.

The Picture of Dorian Grey was critically ridiculed on release. One example of typical reviews came from the St. James Gazette: "The writer airs his cheap research among the garbage of the French Decadents like any drivelling pedant". Wilde defended himself in a letter, saying the book was being misunderstood, and the charge of wickedness by the media would only increase sales. "But, alas!", he went on, "They will find it a story with a moral ...a terrible moral... which the prurient will not be able to find in it, but which will be revealed to all whose minds are healthy".

From his writings there is no sense that Oscar Wilde would have been cruel or harbouring any intention to corrupt. On the contrary, it is easy to imagine that his gentleness, generosity and playfulness would have meant that the boys on the rack would have welcomed his visits compared to other clients, whatever else was entailed. (I believe it was evidence from some of these that decided the trial outcome?) He did not need to enter such a sordid world but his political vision was for equality and fraternity. Somehow his public disgrace has redemptive elements both for himself and for those in whose name he was accused.

Anyway if I come across anything else intriguing on Wilde that appears to pertain to Morrissey, I'll revert, and please continue to post insights. :flowers:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
At ten, I think I was more a 'Fraggle Rock' and 'Basil Brush' man.

Maybe there is a connection with Oscar Wilde?

I had similar thoughts, even though the love of my life at ten was Pitje Puck. My parents had a hard time, because I wanted to go to Ibiza on holidays, because Pitje had been.

3c61017b42a08c98b7c01210.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

The dress style similarity with any known living musician is purely accidental. :eek: Or isn't it? The humor of Pitje just made me wonder if maybe the author was an Oscar Wilde fan?

(end of thread theft)
 
I like this post, but I have to say that, as far as Morrissey goes, I never felt like his work was an influence on me, but rather a way to understand and develop the person I already was inside - so to speak. Hmmm, I guess that is an influence, huh? :blushing: Well, you get what I mean, I'm sure...That's why we're Morrissey fans, right? Because we love and understand his music!

I'm new to this part of the site, by the way - Hi! I tried to come on here a couple of years ago, and it was an odd experience. This new set-up is much better. :)
 
I always felt Morrissey's blood in my vein. I can't call it of 'influence", since I like Morrissey - and Wilde or any one else - 'cause he sings - or writes - thing I really believe and feel. The first (Morrissey's) song I really loved was "How Soon is Now?" and it happened just because the lines I'm human and I need to be loved just like everybody else does.

Don't you remember (...)sing you life(..)? I sing my life through his songs.
 
Back
Top Bottom