Ouch (>_<) woman attacked Pope Benedict XVI

[Uncleskinny]

What?

So you were walking down the street and random people came up and professed their hatred of Jesus? Or, as I suspect you were talking about a religious or cultural issue and they expressed their opinion on it by expounding on their perspective...you know like people do in a conversation. Of course, you don't, you just make snide comments about how arrogant or blinkered people are while cloaking your own opinions so you can't be pinned down. Eh Dave?

I like you.

Peter

 

[Flax]

What?

So you were walking down the street and random people came up and professed their hatred of Jesus? Or, as I suspect you were talking about a religious or cultural issue and they expressed their opinion on it by expounding on their perspective...you know like people do in a conversation. Of course, you don't, you just make snide comments about how arrogant or blinkered people are while cloaking your own opinions so you can't be pinned down. Eh Dave?

Dave has debated with atheists for a long time, so he's very experienced.
Ask him what he thinks about Richard Dawkins. That will be good.

 

[Anker Ignis Fatuus Von K.]

I guess most religious people are pricks and most atheists are pricks because most people are pricks.

 

[Dave]

What?

So you were walking down the street and random people came up and professed their hatred of Jesus? Or, as I suspect you were talking about a religious or cultural issue and they expressed their opinion on it by expounding on their perspective...you know like people do in a conversation. Of course, you don't, you just make snide comments about how arrogant or blinkered people are while cloaking your own opinions so you can't be pinned down. Eh Dave?

I don't associate being an Atheist with "hatred of Jesus". That's ridiculous. Why would you try to make such a statement?

What makes you think I won't express my opinions? I really hope it isn't based on another discussion I had in another thread with another person, because it was ridiculous and it's really too much to ask to revisit that. I've been pretty open about what I believe in the past.

edit: I did leave out what I wanted to say. No one is "an atheist" to me until they declare themselves an atheist. I am sure I have met a great number of atheists that were wonderful people. This is partly about labels. If it is important to you that I know you are an atheist, and if you seem to feel that this should matter to me, then yes I find this unpleasant, the same way I find it unpleasant when someone tries to talk me into believing in the god that they subscribe to.

The last "atheist" I met was wearing a hat that said "Born Again Atheist". He was a stupid old man from England who did not know who Morrissey was, and that was the reason I asked him about his hat. Not to debate.

I did not say that when a person I know tells me that they don't believe in "god" or when they tell me that they are an atheist, that I find this arrogant. However, when they seize on an opportunity to point out that they are an atheist, with an air of accomplishment, I feel that they are marginalized as a person.

I understand that Christians especially are free and encouraged to promote their beliefs and that maybe atheist beliefs are unpopular in some places, but I really don't think that atheists face the persecution that a small but vocal minority of them seem to feel they suffer.

 

[Dave]

Dave has debated with atheists for a long time, so he's very experienced.
Ask him what he thinks about Richard Dawkins. That will be good.

Sorry, but you did this before. I responded then but once is enough.

 

[Flax]

Sorry, but you did this before. I responded then but once is enough.

Oh I know. Your knowledge regarding that issue was hilarious.

 

[Dave]

Oh I know. Your knowledge regarding that issue was hilarious.

What was hilarious was being accused of being a right-wing bible-thumper because of a bart simpson quote in my signature. People (like you) can't conceive of a worldview outside your own where "god" = "christian belief system".

 

[jamescagney]

I guess you're not gonna hear a response from dear Thrupenny anytime soon as he/she/it just got banned.

Sad, eh? What a promising career. Interrupted.

The way I see it, if the atheists aren't rounding you up and killing you in Crusades, putting everyone of your kind into gas chambers, or sending you to Africa to be raped by persons with AIDS, you're getting off lucky by having to read a few anti-Pope posts. No matter how haughty.




There's gonna be some fun tonight
Spreading news around the town
That the vicars are transvestites
With a fetish for robes and gowns

I've got nothing against church
Or any people who go there and show they're
Plain ignorant and don't understand
A congregation at weekends won't change their behaviour
So many people are weak enough
To have to seek answers from pedlars of hope
I should know I used to go there myself
That's the day I became anti-pope

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Religion/Anti-religion blah, blah, blah.

Here's really cool footage of the attack. It's cool because you hear the attack, don't see it exactly. Not a lot different from a concert anyway, just we are tuned into a more hip stage and the music is different.

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uGNqYNiSTjc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uGNqYNiSTjc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[jamescagney]

Religion/Anti-religion blah, blah, blah.

Genocide, torture, child molestation, blah blah blah.

Look at all those security guys sauntering into action. They could use an Arturo.

Surprised the Pope's security get to wear Men In Black style suits and not dresses like everyone else.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Genocide, torture, child molestation, blah blah blah.

Oh no, you don't get off that easy. It's not that simple. Religion has more benefits than the f***s who sometimes represent it. There are f***s in every walk of life, it's just ironically fun to point out the ones in the religion category because those persuaded by faith should be held to a higher standard.

 

[Flax]

Oh no, you don't get off that easy. It's not that simple. Religion has more benefits than the f***s who sometimes represent it. There are f***s in every walk of life, it's just ironically fun to point out the ones in the religion category because those persuaded by faith should be held to a higher standard.

So you're saying that traumatizing children by putting a picture in their heads that there is a chance they might burn in hell for all eternity could be considered a benefit?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

So you're saying that traumatizing children by putting a picture in their heads that there is a chance they might burn in hell for all eternity could be considered a benefit?

No, but I'm saying a woman from Mexico who's left her family and homeland to pursue a future for her three children who suffers domestic abuse and takes solace in the Sunday homily and the love she feels by a presence she can't describe but that a mass sermon can is a comforting thing. Churches offer comfort and safety too, not just fear.

 

[Flax]

No, but I'm saying a woman from Mexico who's left her family and homeland to pursue a future for her three children who suffers domestic abuse and takes solace in the Sunday homily and the love she feels by a presence she can't describe but that a mass sermon can is a comforting thing. Churches offer comfort and safety too, not just fear.

Churches offer false hope and mass delusion. That's where the "comfort" comes from. Seeing other people engaging in the same type of delusion as you can be comforting and reassuring.

If you go back to what you just wrote and take the words "homily", "mass sermon" and "churches" and substitute them to any type of heavy drug, you will see it works perfectly. That doesn't mean the heavy drugs are good for you.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Churches offer false hope and mass delusion. That's where the "comfort" comes from. Seeing other people engaging in the same type of delusion as you can be comforting and reassuring.

If you go back to what you just wrote and take the words "homily", "mass sermon" and "churches" and substitute them to any type of heavy drug, you will see it works perfectly. That doesn't mean the heavy drugs are good for you.

A lot of people need that kind of hope, I'm trying to make sense of my particular strain of delusion, it's different. Don't compare the two.

 

[Scarlet Ibis]

Churches offer false hope and mass delusion. That's where the "comfort" comes from. Seeing other people engaging in the same type of delusion as you can be comforting and reassuring.

If you go back to what you just wrote and take the words "homily", "mass sermon" and "churches" and substitute them to any type of heavy drug, you will see it works perfectly. That doesn't mean the heavy drugs are good for you.

YES!

You need to start spending the night at my house on Friday nights so you can be here in the morning when the fundies knock at my door. (And also so we can have a slumber party!)

 

[Jukebox Jury]

Churches offer false hope and mass delusion. That's where the "comfort" comes from. Seeing other people engaging in the same type of delusion as you can be comforting and reassuring.

Agree. As supporter of Manchester City FC, I attend games with 45,000 fellow fans every other week - all of thinking that THIS YEAR will be our 1st year since 1976 when we win some silverware

Jukebox Jury

PS This season IS going to be the one where we win some silverware

 

[Flax]

A lot of people need that kind of hope, I'm trying to make sense of my particular strain of delusion, it's different. Don't compare the two.

Based on what study, would you say that people need that kind of hope?

The evidence shows the exact opposite.

You'll see that in most cases, you can observe that misery and turmoil is directly proportional to how religious countries are.

People tend to be more civilized and have better quality of life in countries that are less religious.

 

[jamescagney]

Oh no, you don't get off that easy. It's not that simple. Religion has more benefits than the f***s who sometimes represent it. There are f***s in every walk of life, it's just ironically fun to point out the ones in the religion category because those persuaded by faith should be held to a higher standard.

This is more than a few fscks. There are credible assertions that the POPE, the POPE, the POPE wrote a secret policy to 1) keep child molestation private by 2) requiring that such cases be reported directly to the Vatican, and 3) the end result was that child molesters were shuffled around to other jobs dealing with children, and presumably by Vatican policy, the Vatican was involved in the shuffling, as were people they continue to promote even now to posts such as Cardinal. Hardly cleaning house, atoning or making amends.

So yes, this is worth discussing, and is not "blah blah blah." And, the Church claims to be in a position to advise others on morality, due to their close study understanding of the Bible, their framework of dogma, and their direct communications with the big invisible man no one else can see. This raises the question: if the Pope, Cardinals, priests, etc. can perpetrate so much evil even after their close study of the Bible, then why would people go to church, study the bible, etc?

I hear you that going to church gives people comfort. But comfort based on a framework and people that produced evil and child molestation, isn't that an empty comfort based on nothing more certain than smoke and mirrors?

 

[Dave]

here's the thing. the church and the pope can be wrong about things and that woman can still be mentally ill.

someone can be a priest and not be a child molester.

someone can have spiritual beliefs and not go to church.


also, what does James Watt have to do with anything? He was an asshole and very few people here would have thought otherwise, but did his religious beliefs make him an asshole?