Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated debate!

Maurice E

Junior Member
Made a comment in another thread (which I'll cut and paste) which started an off-topic discussion, so thought it best to start a new one...

I said the following;
Moz is a total lightweight, politically.
you ask him a serious question about a contemporary politician and he'll say how physically unattracive they are, or that they look like Larry Grayson.
his profound verdict on Bush and Blair was that they were 'egotistical dictators'. cheers!
the mess he's got himself in with the racism accusations is largely because he doesn't understand the link between racism and immigration.
he's a multi-millionaire pop star who professes to side with the poor and the needy, but moans about having to pay so much tax, completely failing to see the connection between the two issues.
his 'God Bless Israel' comment showed how clueless he was about Middle Eastern politics. when McCartney played there weeks later, he showed much much greater sensitivity and awareness.
Moz is a genius when it comes to talking about music, people, relationships, family life, growing up, etc but I maintain that he's extremely naive when it comes to the wider political world...
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

And myeye said this!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I find they best way to describe something is by using the least ammount of words but the most effective one's,and he seems to do this very well with the aforementioned people.He's usually asked in interviews,so rather than go into a long winded speech on why either is why he describes them it's better to be blunt it makes you question why he's saying that,and everytime I've done that I see where he is coming from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice E
the mess he's got himself in with the racism accusations is largely because he doesn't understand the link between racism and immigration.
he's a multi-millionaire pop star who professes to side with the poor and the needy, but moans about having to pay so much tax, utterly failing to see the connection between the two issues.
his 'God Bless Israel' comment showed how clueless he was about Middle Eastern politics. when McCartney played there weeks later, he showed much much greater sensitivity and awareness.
Moz is (at least sometimes) a genius when it comes to talking about music, people, relationships, family life, growing up, etc but I maintain that he is incredibly naive when it comes to the wider political world.


well I disagree entirely,The mess who got who into? The Immigration is a burning political Issue all over,it's others who take it into the realms of racism,not him.He can't be at fault for misinterpretation can he?
he was asked a question on whether England is different to when it was when he was young,and obviously it is,dilution of one's culture is a touchy subject which needs to be dealt with,obviously most UK politicians dont mind their culture disintegrating and seem out of touch with it's electorate...hence the rise of the BNP.The only one's at fault for that are the politicos.

As far as Israel goes,he has fans there and sometimes it's better to put politics aside for happiness and peace albeit a break from the paranoid hell they also live in,the people are manipulated by fear from most politicos Israel included...and it's the people who are his fans...anyway he decides where and what to play and no one will dictate, so it's two fingers to the lot and the people come before the politics if that's what he chooses,Canada is obviously one he feels should be different,it doesn't surprise me as Israel is always getting boycotted by various Musicians,maybe Canada's due a kick in the arse? I dunno...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

anyway, discuss or ignore but not really relevant to the 'underrated' thread...
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

And myeye said this!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I find they best way to describe something is by using the least ammount of words but the most effective one's,and he seems to do this very well with the aforementioned people.He's usually asked in interviews,so rather than go into a long winded speech on why either is why he describes them it's better to be blunt it makes you question why he's saying that,and everytime I've done that I see where he is coming from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice E
the mess he's got himself in with the racism accusations is largely because he doesn't understand the link between racism and immigration.
he's a multi-millionaire pop star who professes to side with the poor and the needy, but moans about having to pay so much tax, utterly failing to see the connection between the two issues.
his 'God Bless Israel' comment showed how clueless he was about Middle Eastern politics. when McCartney played there weeks later, he showed much much greater sensitivity and awareness.
Moz is (at least sometimes) a genius when it comes to talking about music, people, relationships, family life, growing up, etc but I maintain that he is incredibly naive when it comes to the wider political world.


well I disagree entirely,The mess who got who into? The Immigration is a burning political Issue all over,it's others who take it into the realms of racism,not him.He can't be at fault for misinterpretation can he?
he was asked a question on whether England is different to when it was when he was young,and obviously it is,dilution of one's culture is a touchy subject which needs to be dealt with,obviously most UK politicians dont mind their culture disintegrating and seem out of touch with it's electorate...hence the rise of the BNP.The only one's at fault for that are the politicos.

As far as Israel goes,he has fans there and sometimes it's better to put politics aside for happiness and peace albeit a break from the paranoid hell they also live in,the people are manipulated by fear from most politicos Israel included...and it's the people who are his fans...anyway he decides where and what to play and no one will dictate, so it's two fingers to the lot and the people come before the politics if that's what he chooses,Canada is obviously one he feels should be different,it doesn't surprise me as Israel is always getting boycotted by various Musicians,maybe Canada's due a kick in the arse? I dunno...

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

anyway, discuss or ignore but not really relevant to the 'underrated' thread...

my response to 'myeye' is that I'm not criticising Moz for playing Israel.
far from it. but making a webcam broadcast and saying "God Bless Israel" shows a stupendous amount of insensitivity about Middle Eastern politics.

when Paul McCartney played there just weeks later he made it very clear that he was neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestine, and made sensitive comments about the problems in the region, whereas Moz just blunders in cluelessly, like the proverbial bull in a china shop...
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

It's hard to know what to say about this one... :rolleyes: both of you have made good points I reckon, but Morrissey's political comments/stances- although they have often caused controversy, for example the whole 'racism vs national identity' malarkey- have never really seemed to be massively inaccurate. Even though, as Maurice E said, he does throw some doubt over his political knowledge by making quite blunt blanket statements, at least he is interested and opinionated about the topic of politics and does make a valid point on occasion. :) Still, I'm not hugely clued-up about this sort of thing either, so I'm not going to keep rambling ;)
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

Doesn't the OP think that perhaps he knows all about politics and dozens of other things besides and simply comes out with these trademark gaffes to pull people's legs?

He's always saying things he shouldn't - he's just beeing a cheeky git!
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

perhaps he chooses to be what you term a "political lightweight" :straightface:
i mean, lets face it, his loyal fan base is quite divergent in our political beliefs :cool:
or
sometimes i like to think that Mozzy babie just chooses to live in a "perfect world' where such issues like politics, sexism, racism and the like do not matter much anymore :thumb:
you know, the whole "don't dream it, be it" kind of thing :guitar:
its a nice dream :rolleyes:
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

I know where your coming from,but for me it goes back to the fewest words best description thing, "God Bless Israel" what's wrong with that? God bless everywhere as far as I'm concerned(but Im not religious), Israel exists whether we like it or not,better to wish it peace than death,doesn't mean you agree with it's existance or what it is doing,it's there, we gotta get on with it,the UN is the outlet for sorting that out, not Moz.

it's not about Moz sorting it out. it's about him clumsily stirring up a hornet's nest due to his own political ignorance.
anyone with any vague awareness of middle eastern politics would have known how inflammatory saying "God Bless Israel" is, at least without also saying "and God Bless Palestine".
and yes, I would go along with "God Bless Everywhere" too!
but it's just one of many, many examples of Morrissey really not having a grip on wider political issues. he should either educate himself about the wider international world or steer well clear of passing comment ...
 
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Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

I think with Israel, Morrissey was (and still is?) obsessed with the actor Lior Ashkenazi from Late Marriage and when Morrissey has a pop culture obsession it can translate into sweeping statements, like "God Bless Israel".

 
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Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

I think with Israel, Morrissey was (and still is?) obsessed with the actor Lior Ashkenazi from Late Marriage and when Morrissey has a pop culture obsession it can translate into sweeping statements, like "God Bless Israel".



:thumb: Good observation King Leer, that could quite possibly be the reason.
 
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Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

I don't see what's wrong with saying "God bless Israel" unless you assume by saying that you are saying "God damn Palestine" which I don't think Morrissey was doing.

How clued up are any of us anyway, especially about issues like the middle east? All Morrissey did was say something nice about the country he was playing in. He also publicly stated that he would like to play in Iran. I don't think he is choosing sides.

I find some fans a bit petulant about Morrissey's politics. It's "Morrissey doesn't agree exactly with my views therefore he is stupid and naive". A little bit arrogant really.
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

Yes. I'm sure his interest in Iran is through images/films he has found attractive as well.

ok, so following this logic :D
then in order for the Palestinians to get Morrissey's support then they just need to find some guy he finds real attractive :eek::p:lbf::o
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

I think Morrissey is a bit of a political lightweight though this is borne out of apathy rather than lack of intelligence. This doesn't bother me a lot of the time, it's the position that I find myself in at the minute, however when Morrissey does make loud political statements I often feel annoyed at him for being unable to back them up with anything substantial or for them just being plain stupid. For example he expressed his hate for Bush and Blair very strongly in several interviews but then on Jonathan Ross said that he doesn't vote anywhere because he has no faith in the system; if you hated them that much Morrissey why didn't you take some action and actually vote? I think that in Morrissey's world politics is very simple and this is comfortable for him so he chooses to keep it that way. It's great when you can just criticise politicians and leave it at that, but unless he has any constructive suggestions or even merely the want to try and find a solution I don't think he should make such bold statements.
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

How clued up are any of us anyway, especially about issues like the middle east? All Morrissey did was say something nice about the country he was playing in. He also publicly stated that he would like to play in Iran. I don't think he is choosing sides.

I find some fans a bit petulant about Morrissey's politics. It's "Morrissey doesn't agree exactly with my views therefore he is stupid and naive". A little bit arrogant really.

Hear hear! :thumb: This is the reason that I'm impressed he bothers to get involved (even if only opinion-wise) in politics at all- because it's such a difficult, prickly subject for so many people. The best thing people can really hope for in terms of politics is to agree to disagree- just my two cents though :straightface:
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

For example he expressed his hate for Bush and Blair very strongly in several interviews but then on Jonathan Ross said that he doesn't vote anywhere because he has no faith in the system; if you hated them that much Morrissey why didn't you take some action and actually vote?

perhaps he too sees that voting is currently a part of the corrupt evil systems deeply entrenched here and elsewhere :straightface:
having said that, I voted for Obama, but its not like I expect much from him, just that he will not be as bad as the other guy :cool:
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

Not very. But who cares?

If he sang about politics I wouldn't listen.
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

But he writes about things that are the result of politics-industrial schools,lack of job opportunities and being on the dole etc etc.Everything comes back to politics.It affects every aspect of our lives.He wouldn't have been brought up in Manchester and had so little opportunities when he finished school if it were not for politics.
 
Re: Morrissey and the world of politics: how clued up is he? Let's have a heated deba

my response to 'myeye' is that I'm not criticising Moz for playing Israel.
far from it. but making a webcam broadcast and saying "God Bless Israel" shows a stupendous amount of insensitivity about Middle Eastern politics.

when Paul McCartney played there just weeks later he made it very clear that he was neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestine, and made sensitive comments about the problems in the region, whereas Moz just blunders in cluelessly, like the proverbial bull in a china shop...

How does saying 'God Bless Israel' show a 'stupendous amount of insensitivity about Middle Eastern politics'? :confused: It's a legitimate, democratic, avanced, largely secular country, who if there is a 'God', probably needs his bloody blessings considering its hated and regularly attacked by all sides around it!

Would you have the same reaction if he said 'God Bless America', which he probably has said actually? :confused:

Did you expect Moz to play in the Gaza strip and say 'God Bless Hamas'?
 
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